Is climate change one of the biggest crises facing humanity?

Submitted by phaster on May 7, 2018 - 3:32pm
yes
42% (8 votes)
no
47% (9 votes)
WTF is "climate change?"
0% (0 votes)
this "poll" question is dumb!
11% (2 votes)
Total votes: 19
Submitted by phaster on May 7, 2018 - 4:04pm.

ucodegen wrote:

"Look before you leap - Drastic, precipitous—and, especially, unilateral—steps to delay the putative greenhouse impacts can cost jobs and prosperity and increase the human costs of global poverty, without being effective. Stringent economic controls now would be economically devastating particularly for developing countries..." Revelle 1992

had to finish what I started the other evening,... which is the poll I though to have more substance than CA renters alleged "computer hack" thread w/ skunk shitting poll contest!... that along w/ the PDF I was trying to put together late at night,... where basically I was trying to highlight something w/ in the PDF,... so to do that, first had to use OCR software to convert the document, blab, blah, blah

since you mentioned you worked at SIO (long ago), pretty sure you know Walter Munk is another major figure in that neck of the woods,... anyway he too had concerns about the misuse of revelle's good name/reputation being connected to an article in some Washington, D.C. club magazine (which is documented in an AFFIDAVIT provided by revelle's secretary)

so check out the revised PDF (at the link below) because the "included" AFFIDAVIT IMHO shows pretty clearly that singer isn't all that honest or trustworthy of a "scientist" and his personal account,...

http://media.hoover.org/sites/default/fi...

is basically historical PR revisionism

www.TinyURL.com/RevelleDoubt

also FWIW back in the day when Revelle was teaching, we didn't have access to solid data of exact CO2 measurements,... now we do thanks to ice core sample(s)

Richard Alley a climate scientist (and FWIW a "Republican" National Academy of Sciences member), IMHO fills in the gaps and settles the question about the role CO2 plays w/ temperature that revelle got me interested in years ago,...

"Alley" hosted a documentary (w/ segments) which explain:

CO2 & THE ATMOSPHERE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9eGzPxA1Dg

CO2 IN THE ICE CORE RECORD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHzADl-XID8

Abrupt Climate Change
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiM1DSmCSUc

also of interest is a presentation (@ National Academy of Sciences 152nd Annual Meeting) on the on 4.6 Billion Years of Earth’s Climate History

The Role of CO2, during the Symposium—Earths, Moons, Mars & Stars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujkcTZZl...

AND a talk a yale about the economics of climate change, which again IMHO is vary similar in style as to how revelle had us students look at a problem (from another angle)

Sea-Level Rise: Inconvenient, or Unmanageable?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE9Gqy8Yy9w

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 7, 2018 - 4:18pm.

There is a lot of 1980s thinking out there.
People claim that green tech slows down growth. True at one time, but we have reached economies of scale.
it’s now proven that green tech accelerates growth. We will see in the next 20 years what countries will dominate the tech of the future. I’m pretty confident people who embrace green tech will save money, make money, and become richer. I won’t feel sorry for thise who are poorer because they cling to the past.

Submitted by Escoguy on May 20, 2018 - 11:58am.

From roughly 1975 to 1990, Germany cut it's oil use in half and it's economy doubled in size.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 21, 2018 - 12:15pm.

I'm loving it. Prince Harry's old jaguar is now an electric car.
This past weekend I was in Ramona (of all places) and they were so many Harleys belching out smoke and creating noise. So annoying! We need to move to electric quickly to make our cities more liveable.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/05/19/prin...

Submitted by Ribbles on May 22, 2018 - 7:01am.

Ugh, it will be a sad day when most internal combustion engines are gone. No more lopey cams or angry flat sixes or spastic vtec. They will never disappear entirely - too many passionate people clinging to them. They are alive in a way that electric motors are not, and that is a very good thing, even if electric is superior in every practical sense.

Anticipating that day, if I have my kids in the car when a V8 with aftermarket exhaust rumbles by, I roll down the window and say "SHHH!! Listen!!"

Even the artificial engine noise pumped through my 228i speakers is a little disheartening, but better than total silence. I think it would be especially silly on an electric car.

All that said, I would be happy if private cars (electric and otherwise) were completely eliminated from downtowns and replaced with something better. Something useable and safe for pedestrians. If I suddenly decide I want to be two blocks north, I want to be in my ride in 10 seconds flat.

Submitted by millennial on May 22, 2018 - 10:25am.

Had electric - hated it, feels like you're driving a big golf cart! Nothing is sweeter than the sound of a real combustion engine at full throttle. Just traded it in and purchased the family an M5. Great family car and gets the kids to piano practice real quick.

Submitted by Ribbles on May 22, 2018 - 10:37am.

Good choice. I looked at the older V10 M5, just because they are a practical size and sound incredible, then had a good chuckle at the gas mileage. With my commute I would spend something like $900/month on gas.

Submitted by millennial on May 22, 2018 - 10:55am.

Yeah the older ones were gas guzzlers. The new one is rated at 15/21, but honestly probably closer to 13/18 with the way I drive. The modes on the new models are amazing and can go from a 600 hp beast to a regular 5 series with a click of a button.

If mileage is an issue you should look into the new M2. It gets 18/26 and is a beast; inline 6 that puts out 343 lb-ft of torque.

Submitted by Ribbles on May 22, 2018 - 11:32am.

I'm actually looking at the M2 and the M240i. It depends on how harsh the ride is. M2 has a fixed suspension compared to the adaptive in the 240, and some people are saying the M2 is too stiff for the street. I'll have to test drive it. A 240 with a tune would be just as fast, although not as light and wouldn't look as good.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on May 22, 2018 - 1:56pm.

im in the market for an electric bike.

Submitted by phaster on May 28, 2018 - 8:53am.

Ribbles wrote:
Ugh, it will be a sad day when most internal combustion engines are gone. No more lopey cams or angry flat sixes or spastic vtec. They will never disappear entirely - too many passionate people clinging to them. They are alive in a way that electric motors are not, and that is a very good thing, even if electric is superior in every practical sense.

Anticipating that day, if I have my kids in the car when a V8 with aftermarket exhaust rumbles by, I roll down the window and say "SHHH!! Listen!!"

millennial wrote:

Nothing is sweeter than the sound of a real combustion engine at full throttle.

personally not too fond of aftermarket resonators replacing stock parts on mass produced vehicles,... seems like its insecure guys craving attention who add a resonator to some POS (piece of $hit)

having said that, I do like the sound of a v12 (and old school "tail draggers")

The Engine That Won World War II - Jay Leno's Garage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYcKdK7hmEo

FWIW had a BMW 540 w/ six-speed manual and sport package, which was a nice "open" road trip vehicle,... BUT in heavy stop and go "urban" traffic, it sucked! then there were the service bills!! so got rid of it,... actually my newest ride, for my urban neighborhood is a "cruiser" eBike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8ZkTGUf95U

which makes running errands (like to the bank) something to look forward to

Submitted by phaster on May 28, 2018 - 8:54am.

FlyerInHi wrote:
...We will see in the next 20 years what countries will dominate the tech of the future. I’m pretty confident people who embrace green tech will save money, make money, and become richer. I won’t feel sorry for thise who are poorer because they cling to the past.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZDBMfe3iPE

FlyerInHi wrote:

May 2, 2018 - 1:18pm

Humans may not be able to deal with environmental collapse. Theoretically very difficult, if not impossible.

On the other hand, financial collapse can be dealt with some social engineering and reallocation of resources. Theoretically not that difficult.

https://piggington.com/ot_should_pridkha...

financial collapse can be dealt with???

As I see things its one of the dominos (yet to fall)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y97rBdSYbkg

in a PSYOP chain reaction that started long ago @ UCSD

***allegedly*** Revelle in 1992 wrote:

"Look before you leap - Drastic, precipitous—and, especially, unilateral—steps to delay the putative greenhouse impacts can cost jobs and prosperity and increase the human costs of global poverty, without being effective. Stringent economic controls now would be economically devastating particularly for developing countries..."

www.TinyURL.com/RevelleDoubt

Quote:

Climate "realists" want U.S. to stop spending money on climate change - CBS News

A group of climate change skeptics who call themselves "climate realists" think the U.S. has spent too much money on climate change already, and they want the government to stop. Climate scientists, the U.N. and NASA dismiss these arguments as propaganda for fossil fuel interests. Dean Reynolds reports.

http://download.cbsnews.com/media/mpx/20...

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/climate-re...

actually stopped by to check the poll results thus far which are not too surprising given the older more established demographic attracted to "real estate" and perhaps wanting to keep the "comfortable" status quo,...

Quote:

Del Mar stands firm against 'planned retreat'

Del Mar’s City Council agreed Monday night that “planned retreat” will not be part of its long-term strategy for dealing with sea-level rise, despite the state Coastal Commission’s urging to include the idea.

Planned retreat, also called “managed retreat,” is a strategy of removing seawalls, roads, homes and other structures gradually over the years in advance of rising sea levels.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/comm...

FWIW what you all might find interesting is the 10 most critical problems in the world, according to millennials

Quote:

For the third year in a row, millennials who participated in the World Economic Forum's Global Shapers Survey 2017 believe climate change is the most serious issue affecting the world today.

http://www.businessinsider.com/world-eco...

Submitted by phaster on June 9, 2018 - 10:59am.

June 2018 ISSUE (IEEE spectrum)

Quote:

Can Technology Reverse Climate Change?

Do you believe that climate change is a vast left-wing conspiracy that does little more than create jobs for scientists while crippling businesses with pointless regulation? Or, quite the contrary, are you convinced that climate change is the biggest crisis confronting the planet, uniquely capable of wreaking havoc on a scale not seen in recorded history?

Many of you are probably in one camp or the other. No doubt some of you will tell us how disappointed/angry/outraged you are that we (a) gave credence to this nonsense or (b) failed to convey the true urgency of the situation. We welcome your thoughts.

In crafting this issue, we steered clear of attempting to change hearts and minds. Your views on climate change aren’t likely to be altered by a magazine article, or even two dozen magazine articles. Rather, this issue grew out of a few simple observations. One is that massive R&D programs are now under way all over the world to develop and deploy the technologies and infrastructures that will help reduce emissions of greenhouse gases...

https://spectrum.ieee.org

what I found personally interesting looking at the issue from a EE perspective is

Quote:

Prototype Electric Plane Built by Siemens and Magnus Aircraft Crashes in Hungary, Killing Both People on Board

An experimental electric plane built by Hungary’s Magnus Aircraft and Siemens crashed on Thursday near Budapest, killing the pilot and the passenger.

Earlier this year the pilot took me for a 15-minute flight in this model, called the Magnus eFusion. The electric motor and the entire propulsion system are supplied by Siemens...

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/aer...

when aircraft powered by something other than an internal combustion engine is a common everyday experience, that is an indication IMHO when most people will realize there are serious downside consequences to burning fossil fuels

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/the-im...

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 9, 2018 - 11:07am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
im in the market for an electric bike.

What model did you get? And how much?

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 9, 2018 - 11:22am.

Ribbles wrote:
Ugh, it will be a sad day when most internal combustion engines are gone. No more lopey cams or angry flat sixes or spastic vtec. They will never disappear entirely - too many passionate people clinging to them. They are alive in a way that electric motors are not, and that is a very good thing, even if electric is superior in every practical sense.

I don't understand the emotional attachment to cars. And the kind of money people spend on cars, relative to their incomes. Totally irrational to me.

To me, if we find something better, it's time to get rid of the old and move on.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 9, 2018 - 11:22am.

piaster wrote:

financial collapse can be dealt with???

As I see things its one of the dominos (yet to fall)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y97rBdSYbkg

I believe an engineer would say yes. Money has nothing to do with the physical world. It's just human construct to assign brownie points. A genius engineer could come up with some better way.

Submitted by Myriad on June 9, 2018 - 2:57pm.

Isn't humans the biggest crisis facing humanity?

Submitted by moneymaker on June 10, 2018 - 9:17pm.

Global warming is bad for humans but great for plants.

Submitted by Ribbles on June 11, 2018 - 8:35am.

FlyerInHi wrote:
I don't understand the emotional attachment to cars.
People get attached to cars for the same reasons they're passionate about anything - art, nature, cooking. And probably a little anthropomorphism. There is so much variety in cars that it's easy to think of them as having personalities, and more so with internal combustion because of similarities to biology. It's usually something you acquire early in life, in the same way as people who are really into music. I remember as a kid thinking they were all just transportation appliances, and wondering how people could even tell them apart and know the different model names. My trigger was my sister's MG - 35 years later I still remember the smell. Then one day I saw a black 930 slant nose wide body in a parking lot, and it was the toughest, most intimidating looking car I had ever seen. That's when I really understood the personality thing. And I hadn't even heard that glorious motor yet.

Quote:
And the kind of money people spend on cars, relative to their incomes. Totally irrational to me.
Well, certainly - there's a point where you cross from enthusiast to stupid. But if you don't have a lot of responsibility and would rather have an $800 car payment than invest it, then I say live it up. As long as you understand the consequences.

Quote:
To me, if we find something better, it's time to get rid of the old and move on.
Is a Kindle better than a book? More efficient, sure. But a better reading experience? Not by a long shot, in my opinion.

Submitted by svelte on June 11, 2018 - 4:35pm.

Ribbles wrote:
FlyerInHi wrote:
I don't understand the emotional attachment to cars.
People get attached to cars for the same reasons they're passionate about anything - art, nature, cooking. And probably a little anthropomorphism. There is so much variety in cars that it's easy to think of them as having personalities, and more so with internal combustion because of similarities to biology. It's usually something you acquire early in life, in the same way as people who are really into music. I remember as a kid thinking they were all just transportation appliances, and wondering how people could even tell them apart and know the different model names. My trigger was my sister's MG - 35 years later I still remember the smell. Then one day I saw a black 930 slant nose wide body in a parking lot, and it was the toughest, most intimidating looking car I had ever seen.

Cars are a combination of beautiful art and beautiful engineering. It appeals to four of our five senses: sight, sound, smell, touch.

To me, it's like fine art that I can enjoy in three dimensions while taking me on any adventure I can dream up...what more could I ask for?

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 12, 2018 - 12:04pm.

yeah, I get the love of cars.... people can own internal combustion cars if they want. But they should not try to impede progress and block public transport, autonomous, etc...

I think the anti public transport attitude is retarding economic progress. We, Americans, are smart and innovative. We should own high speed rail tech, not the Chinese. I feel like we simply gave up a huge industry. It's going to be many times larger then Boeing and employ engineers who will give rise to all kinds of new tech. Too bad it won't be our engineers.

It's not just climate change, but economic development.

Submitted by phaster on June 16, 2018 - 10:14am.

FlyerInHi wrote:

phaster wrote:

financial collapse can be dealt with???

As I see things its one of the dominos (yet to fall)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y97rBdSYbkg


I believe an engineer would say yes. Money has nothing to do with the physical world. It's just human construct to assign brownie points. A genius engineer could come up with some better way.

sure a genius engineer could come up w/ design to ameliorate various down side effects of climate change BUT since we live in a physical world, that means the genius engineer has to eat, etc.

in other words w/ out money (in a physical world), that means the genius engineer would have to grow food for their own personal consumption,... which means somehow gathering enough water to grow crops and raise livestock

consider in a world w/out money there is no way to pay police to protect personal property (specifically what i'm thinking of here is farm land on which crops and livestock is raised),... ever hear the of the expression Money makes the world go round?

as I see things money makes it easy to trade various forms of energy that individuals need to thrive, (i.e. money is a means to substitute for basic skills people need to survive) said another way just imagine how long you would survive if you had to grow your own food, find a source for water, take care of your own healthcare, etc.

Quote:

Money makes the world go round Liza Minnelli

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIAXG_QcQNU

about the question,...

Myriad wrote:

Isn't humans the biggest crisis facing humanity?

yup I'd agree the problem is far too many people in leadship positions (as well as their enablers/followers) are dishonest and dumb AND don't take into account the downside risk(s) of fiscal mismanagement

https://www.piggington.com/another_reaso...

https://www.piggington.com/why_are_state...

Submitted by phaster on June 16, 2018 - 10:15am.

svelte wrote:

Ribbles wrote:

FlyerInHi wrote:
I don't understand the emotional attachment to cars.

People get attached to cars for the same reasons they're passionate about anything - art, nature, cooking. And probably a little anthropomorphism. There is so much variety in cars that it's easy to think of them as having personalities, and more so with internal combustion because of similarities to biology....

Cars are a combination of beautiful art and beautiful engineering. It appeals to four of our five senses: sight, sound, smell, touch.

as I see things vehicle transportation can be made into art (i.e. self expression), which ranges from prim and proper "old school"

Quote:

Morgan Aero Coupe: Street Theatre - XCAR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR6lwpfte9Q

to irreverently

given trends toward electric motor(s) for transportation, personally really like this take on an "old school" racer

Quote:

Woww! Infiniti Prototype 9 is a wonderfully beautiful EV grand prix car

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Ss1LWNpQU

https://www.infinitiusa.com/about/news-e...