Why I am leaving San Diego

User Forum Topic
Submitted by jstoesz on November 5, 2010 - 9:09am

I have not been on this forum long, but I have enjoyed it immensely. I apologize for sometimes poking the bear to frequently, but how can one help themselves.

I have been told, if you don't like San Diego and the high home prices, then go somewhere else. Ultimately, I have always wanted to move back home to Minneapolis. The land of responsible people, cheap beautiful old homes and neighborhoods, and cabins galore. But so far, the S. California wife has not been terribly receptive.

Well the time has come to say bye bye to this speculative environment, hopefully it will bring me one step closer to Minneapolis. I am moving to a place with a better jobs for both of us, better recreation, and cheaper living.

If San Diego were filled with saner people, we would have gladly stayed, bought a house, and raised some kids. Maybe in a 5 years and a few SD bankruptcies, we will be back again.

Submitted by FormerSanDiegan on November 5, 2010 - 9:15am.

jstoesz wrote:

But so far, the S. California wife has not been terribly receptive.

S. California wife ?
:)

How long were you in San Diego ?

Submitted by DataAgent on November 5, 2010 - 9:19am.

Where are you moving? I bet it's Texas.

Submitted by jstoesz on November 5, 2010 - 9:29am.

The wife is from Irvine...thankfully she hates orange county.

I went to school in San Luis Obispo (finest town in California), and have worked down here for 4 years.

We are moving to Placerville and working in El Dorado Hills (foothills east of Sac). It is not out of California sadly, but it is moving in the right direction. It is way cheaper. I can rent a nice SFH on land for ~$1200/month, with south lake 1.5 hrs away.

Submitted by jstoesz on November 5, 2010 - 9:23am.

DataAgent wrote:
Where are you moving? I bet it's Texas.

I said better recreation...I may not mind the weather of Minnesota, but I am still not receptive to crap holes no matter how cheap or how good the jobs are.

Submitted by harvey on November 5, 2010 - 9:42am.

I hear what you are saying about the irresponsibility.

CA is only the eighth largest economy in the world, and and it took a whole century and a half for it to grow from almost nothing to that size. All the irresponsible people here just can't seem to accomplish anything.

Good Luck, enjoy the sanity, and don't forget to say hello to Michelle Bachmann.

Submitted by EconProf on November 5, 2010 - 9:43am.

Having grown up in St. Paul, I can understand your decision to chose the environment of a small CA city over the bustle and impersonal nature of a coastal big city. A lot more people and businesses are chosing to leave CA for other states, and the recent election results will succeed in pushing more taxpayers out. While you are not actually leaving the state, you are moving to a place that is tourist-based, so should do all right as the rest of CA withers.

Submitted by harvey on November 5, 2010 - 9:44am.

Seriously though, the areas east of Sacramento are very nice. If you like the outdoors, there is lots to do.

Submitted by jstoesz on November 5, 2010 - 10:07am.

haha...not my favorite person in the world. But if you have read anything about Mark Dayton (likely next governor), you might think Bachmann was a hallmark of sanity. Minnesotans are horrible voters (see Jesse the Body Ventura), but they sure as hell are no worse than California. I am not trying to leave for the politics...I am trying to leave because of the pervasive values. The lack of responsibility and rampant materialism that is so ubiquitous in Southern California chiefly is the reason for my dislike of it here.

It is not the 150 years of California history that I am decrying, it is what has happened to it in the last 25 years that is so offensive.

pri_dk, I do love the outdoors dearly, and it is one of the other reasons I do not want to go to MN too soon. I can not wait for the proximity to my favorite place on earth, the sierras. They are what brought me here, and they are the last thing keeping me here.

Submitted by jstoesz on November 5, 2010 - 9:57am.

EconProf wrote:
Having grown up in St. Paul

Glad to here there are other MN folk on this thread. Whenever I go home I instantly feel better, just walking through the airport and seeing all the unfashionable midwesterners. It always feels so much less competitive and jealous. The accent is quite horrid though.

Submitted by harvey on November 5, 2010 - 10:29am.

EconProf wrote:
A lot more people and businesses are chosing to leave CA for other states, and the recent election results will succeed in pushing more taxpayers out.

You should consider changing your handle to "MythologyProf" :

http://www.ppic.org/main/pressrelease.as...

Contrary to widely touted opinion, businesses are not leaving en masse, and business relocation is not a major driver of job loss, according to a study released today by the [nonpartisan] Public Policy Institute of California (PPIC).

Submitted by harvey on November 5, 2010 - 10:43am.

jstoesz wrote:
It is not the 150 years of California history that I am decrying, it is what has happened to it in the last 25 years that is so offensive.

I think people say that every 25 years or so.

Think about what has happened in CA in the past 25 years. Back in 1985, Intel was a small company, Cisco Systems didn't even exist (or perhaps just started), the Apple II was a toy.

And then there is biotech...

CA is doing just fine.

But I agree about the materialism, and the Sierras. Idyllwild is not far for me. It's like a little Yosemite.

Submitted by jstoesz on November 5, 2010 - 10:44am.

From what I have seen there is a net + emigration from California vs domestic immigration. The only reason our population goes up is from foreign immigrants.

There a countless structural reasons why you can not move a company from California once it is established. But companies will choose to open their next data center, or their next restaurant, or their next consulting firm somewhere else. Once you have employees, you can not ship all of their jobs somewhere else directly. You can choose where you reinvest your profits and it is increasingly not here. See our unemployment rate vs. the national average if you have any more doubts.

Submitted by jstoesz on November 5, 2010 - 10:48am.

pri_dk wrote:
jstoesz wrote:
It is not the 150 years of California history that I am decrying, it is what has happened to it in the last 25 years that is so offensive.

I think people say that every 25 years or so.

Think about what has happened in CA in the past 25 years. Back in 1985, Intel was a small company, Cisco Systems didn't even exist (or perhaps just started), the Apple II was a toy.

And then there is biotech...

CA is doing just fine.

But I agree about the materialism, and the Sierras. Idyllwild is not far for me. It's like a little Yosemite.

I think your comment about the last 25 years is likely valid. I said 25 years, because California did not used to be so expensive. 25 years ago it was an affordable place with a high standard if not higher than the rest of the country. This does not seem to be still the case.

BTW I love Idyllwild, its no yosemite, my wife and I BC ski Mt. Jean and San Jacinto every time it snows. Mt. Baldy and San Gorgonio are also really great underutilized recreational destinations in S. California.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 5, 2010 - 10:48am.

jstoesz wrote:
EconProf wrote:
Having grown up in St. Paul

Glad to here there are other MN folk on this thread. Whenever I go home I instantly feel better, just walking through the airport and seeing all the unfashionable midwesterners. It always feels so much less competitive and jealous. The accent is quite horrid though.

You guys aren't going to start jabbering about hockey, the Golden Gophs or the Vikes, are you? A buddy of mine is from Edina, and won't shut the f**k up about hockey now. What kind of idiot talks about hockey during FOOTBALL season?!?

Submitted by DWCAP on November 5, 2010 - 10:51am.

Your study includes the years 1992-2002. The most recient data seems to be nearly 8 years old, and totally behind the Housing bubble and recient Federal interventions.

Submitted by jstoesz on November 5, 2010 - 10:53am.

Sorry Allan, Hockey is way more entertaining. The difference is, Hockey blows on TV and blows your mind in person. Football blows in person, and blows your mind on TV.

But I haven't watched either in years. You have to have some pretty impressive Cable to watch the Wild or the Gophers. And the Vikings...what can you say about those retards. We just can't seem to hire has been quarterbacks and pin brained receivers. At least we fired one of the two.

Submitted by bearishgurl on November 5, 2010 - 11:19am.

jstoesz wrote:
The wife is from Irvine...thankfully she hates orange county.

I went to school in San Luis Obispo (finest town in California), and have worked down here for 4 years.

We are moving to Placerville and working in El Dorado Hills (foothills east of Sac). It is not out of California sadly, but it is moving in the right direction. It is way cheaper. I can rent a nice SFH on land for ~$1200/month, with south lake 1.5 hrs away.

jstoesz, I LOVE Placerville, one of my FAV tire-chain mounting and removal areas (along with "Colfax")!! Even though it can easily get "boxed-in" during a snowstorm, is it VERY beautiful and devoid of major commercialism. I love seeing the trains that run through there and the old locomotives. Why don't you consider settling there (as opposed to MN) if your jobs work out?? I've never been to MN but I'm SURE that Placerville is more beautiful and has better weather overall. Just think about the proximity to S. Tahoe and skiing at the world-class Heavenly resort! Purchasing early season passes during the previous summer only costs about $360!

S. Tahoe is on my retirement short list. The less than half-dozen (commercial-looking) large casinos on the Stateline, NV side don't bother me as I don't gamble. Why don't you consider moving there as well?? El Dorado County has jobs and its resale housing market is VERY depressed right now. I'm sure rentals there would be higher than Placerville, though. The city buses in S. Tahoe are free and have ski holders on the sides so no scrambling for parking spaces at the lifts (non-existent at the gondola).

I also love SLO with all its trees and history (and home of Cal-Poly). It's a VERY nice town, except for the summer heat. But there are probably not too many good jobs in that area.

Yes, SD is an "irrigated desert." It's very nice, but not for everyone. It's gotten VERY BIG in the last 25 years. Truly, we DO have the best weather in the nation, consistently, but there are trade-offs people make to live here that newcomers (or those considering moving here) often tire of or end up choosing not to make. Most people who have lived most or all of their lives in SD don't know the difference. I've been here almost 35 years but have relatives whom I regularly visit in other states who have a low household income (by SD stds) and own gorgeous large brick newer homes on land with central A/C. I know there is a difference in the cost of real estate between SD and other areas but some or all that difference is made up in higher utilities, snow tires and higher food costs.

jstoesz, I've traveled about 17 states by car and I haven't really noticed any difference anywhere in the degree of "materialism" among inhabitants. If anything, where the cost of housing is LOWER, residents have MORE discretionary income to spend on second homes, vehicles, RVs, boats, horses, vacations, jewelry, weekly salon, season tix, etc. MANY "middle-class" residents in the southwest and midwest sections of the country have second homes (lakefront or mtn) and DO NOT rent them out. Most of these second homes are purchased with cash. They are typically left empty but furnished just waiting for their owners and/or their friends/family to spend time there :=)

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 5, 2010 - 11:24am.

jstoesz wrote:
Sorry Allan, Hockey is way more entertaining. The difference is, Hockey blows on TV and blows your mind in person. Football blows in person, and blows your mind on TV.

But I haven't watched either in years. You have to have some pretty impressive Cable to watch the Wild or the Gophers. And the Vikings...what can you say about those retards. We just can't seem to hire has been quarterbacks and pin brained receivers. At least we fired one of the two.

My buddy from MN believes that Favre is actually part of a conspiracy hatched by the Packers to destroy the Vikings. He thinks Favre is still in the employ of Green Bay, and has been tanking games intentionally.

Being a California kid, I never got hockey. I have family in MN, IL, WI and MI, so hockey was a fairly big deal with my cousins and my mom was a huge Detroit Red Wings fan.

I played football, and am a Raiders fan, so I have mental issues all my own. Although, the Raiders are starting to scare me. They're 4 - 4 and playing lights out defense. I don't know what I'm going to do if they stay .500 or better this year. I'm so used to being miserable and unhappy with those losing bastards, I'm not sure I know how to behave properly. I'll probably start rooting for the 49ers.

Submitted by urbanrealtor on November 5, 2010 - 11:32am.

Allan from Fallbrook wrote:

My buddy from MN believes that Favre is actually part of a conspiracy hatched by the Packers to destroy the Vikings. He thinks Favre is still in the employ of Green Bay, and has been tanking games intentionally.

Being a California kid, I never got hockey. I have family in MN, IL, WI and MI, so hockey was a fairly big deal with my cousins and my mom was a huge Detroit Red Wings fan.

I played football, and am a Raiders fan, so I have mental issues all my own. Although, the Raiders are starting to scare me. They're 4 - 4 and playing lights out defense. I don't know what I'm going to do if they stay .500 or better this year. I'm so used to being miserable and unhappy with those losing bastards, I'm not sure I know how to behave properly. I'll probably start rooting for the 49ers.

The first place we lived when we moved to the US was Sturgeon Bay near Green Bay.

I can tell you if there is a team capable of planning long term to sabotage the Vikings, it is the Packers.

The fact that a town of 80,000 has a publicly-owned football team and volunteers to work the stadium is as sure a sign as I have ever seen that there is a Satan.

Submitted by bearishgurl on November 5, 2010 - 11:49am.

pri_dk wrote:
CA is doing just fine.

But I agree about the materialism, and the Sierras. Idyllwild is not far for me. It's like a little Yosemite.

pri_dk, I respectfully AGREE that CA is doing "just fine" but respectfully DISAGREE that Idyllwild is like a "little Yosemite."

Idyllwild is a highly fire-prone section of the high desert, replete with quaint wooden totem poles (also fire-prone) . . . lol.

There is no comparison between Idyllwild and Yosemite as they are completely different animals :=]

Submitted by jpinpb on November 5, 2010 - 12:22pm.

jstoesz - I'm feeling a little jealous. Sounds like a good, sound move. Getting out of the rat-race. Good for you and best of luck.

Submitted by sdrealtor on November 5, 2010 - 12:29pm.

Best of luck and I hope you find more peace and happiness in your new home. SoCal is a great place to live if you have the money to afford to live well here. If you dont its is wildly frustrating seeing this amazing life that is just out of reach.

Again best of luck and I hope it all goes well but with a SoCal wife you'll be back soon enough.

Submitted by UCGal on November 5, 2010 - 12:40pm.

Good luck to you jstoesz.

I hear what you're saying about the So. Cal materialism. You're echoing what I said in 1990 when I left San Diego to Washington State. I decried the obsession with the "Three B's": Beachhouses, Blondes w/ Boobs, Beemers. If you didn't have all three you were inadequate. I was single in my 20's and would literally get asked, in clubs, "what do you drive"... like that mattered. (I had a very practical honda civic, lol.)

When I came back, more than a decade later, I was frustrated that housing had gone up so much that I would be house poor, despite now being married with 2 professional incomes. But - I didn't care about the materialism anymore... Who cares of others obsess about the 3 b's... live your life with your own values and let others chase the materialistic stuff.

I wish you and your family the best of luck in your new home. Having relocated to a different state several times, I know the challenges. I hope it is hassle free for you.

Submitted by jstoesz on November 5, 2010 - 1:57pm.

Thank you all for your kind words. You are good bunch...

bearishgirl, you asked why we do not stay up there.

Ultimately, the answer is because we do not have family up there. My wife's and my family are both amazing, and we want involved Grandparents. But if I were master of the universe we would move the whole lot to lake tahoe (or SLO) and I would only be cognizant of my after tax income. But sadly I am not master of the universe.

So when it comes to to really settling and putting down deep roots, SD (because we hate OC even more) or Minneapolis are our only really viable choices.

To the materialism thing. I think their is a big difference with MN's and the cabins, and CA and their houses and cars and boats and clothes.

You have a hard time finding a new BMW or Mercedes in MN, even people who can afford them are embarrassed by their money and are not in a hurry to flaunt it. Not that there is anything wrong with either car (not my thing, but in MN it is a source of embarrassment). I remember in school we would call kids who were higher in the socio-economic ladder "rich" and they would vehemently deny it. There was no, my dad makes more than your dad shenanigans.

Cabins are something families have and are passed down from generations. Most of my friends had cabins that their grandparents gave them. As long as you pay the taxes your family keeps the cabin.

I agree with you all about letting the materialism roll off your back, it doesn't bother me much. I drive a beat honda and wear clothes till they have holes. It can get in my wife head from time to time, and I am terrified of what it could do to a child.

Submitted by DWCAP on November 5, 2010 - 1:58pm.

Allan from Fallbrook wrote:
jstoesz wrote:
Sorry Allan, Hockey is way more entertaining. The difference is, Hockey blows on TV and blows your mind in person. Football blows in person, and blows your mind on TV.

But I haven't watched either in years. You have to have some pretty impressive Cable to watch the Wild or the Gophers. And the Vikings...what can you say about those retards. We just can't seem to hire has been quarterbacks and pin brained receivers. At least we fired one of the two.

My buddy from MN believes that Favre is actually part of a conspiracy hatched by the Packers to destroy the Vikings. He thinks Favre is still in the employ of Green Bay, and has been tanking games intentionally.

Being a California kid, I never got hockey. I have family in MN, IL, WI and MI, so hockey was a fairly big deal with my cousins and my mom was a huge Detroit Red Wings fan.

I played football, and am a Raiders fan, so I have mental issues all my own. Although, the Raiders are starting to scare me. They're 4 - 4 and playing lights out defense. I don't know what I'm going to do if they stay .500 or better this year. I'm so used to being miserable and unhappy with those losing bastards, I'm not sure I know how to behave properly. I'll probably start rooting for the 49ers.

Then like most football fans he must have totally forgotten last year, and the fact that the Farve lead Vikings kicked the Crap out of the Packers. The problem with the Vikings is that they cant get a good young Quarterback to save their lives. The last guy, Tarvaris, Sucked. Sucked sucked sucked. They needed to drop him like a whinny reciever, (cough) Moss (cough), and get someone young who needed a year to learn LAST year. There was plenty of time for 'the kid' to play dead time last year and learn from the guy who holds so many records it isnt funny. Instead they road that horse into the ground and were left with nothing but some bad Chuck meat at the end for this year. Obviously, This is Farves last year.

But PLEASE coaches, find someone new. T.Jackson couldnt lead his way out of a wet paper bag.

Submitted by jstoesz on November 5, 2010 - 2:07pm.

wow! You hit that nail on the head...

that is exactly what has killed me about the vikings. We have a habit of getting washed up quarterbacks and hope they can hit a good receiving lineup. The practice goes back to Good ole warren moon. Sure we had a few good years with culpepper, but the man had less than half a brain...he was clearly no franchise maker.

Sadly I found out both Culpepper and Green are now in Sacramento at the Sacramento Mountain Lions. So no matter how little Dante or Denny, I can't get away from them.

Submitted by joec on November 5, 2010 - 4:08pm.

jstoesz wrote:

I agree with you all about letting the materialism roll off your back, it doesn't bother me much. I drive a beat honda and wear clothes till they have holes. It can get in my wife head from time to time, and I am terrified of what it could do to a child.

I think you just described every married man with children...me included. Really, why put good cash/resources on nice clothes after those 2 things? I don't need to look nice. ;)

I agree LA/OC is a ton more superficial/fake than SD or the bay area having lived in all 3 places...SD is pricey to live as well, but of the 3, it's still cheaper by a mile in terms of housing for what you get/schools than the bay area or LA.

SAC would be nice for Tahoe. Miss the slopes down here...

Good luck on your move! If your wife doesn't have family/friends in SAC, I wouldn't be too surprised to see another move in the near future unfortunately. :(

Submitted by desmond on November 5, 2010 - 4:37pm.

sdrealtor wrote:
Best of luck and I hope you find more peace and happiness in your new home. SoCal is a great place to live if you have the money to afford to live well here. If you dont its is wildly frustrating seeing this amazing life that is just out of reach.

Again best of luck and I hope it all goes well but with a SoCal wife you'll be back soon enough.

You just proved one of his points. Sometimes money is not everything and does not lead to happiness, keep your cheap shots to guys like me.

Submitted by EmilyHicks on November 6, 2010 - 12:10am.

Great, less people in San Diego.

Submitted by CA renter on November 6, 2010 - 12:29am.

jstoesz,

It sounds like you're going to be moving to a place with a much better lifestyle. Like others have said, money does not buy happiness. You'll probably meet some very nice, down-to-earth people up there who will be like your second family.

Best of luck to you and your family in your new home, and please check in from time to time to let us know how it's going.

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