Why the hell is parental wealth taken into account for student aid?

User Forum Topic
Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 16, 2019 - 10:11pm

1. They're 18.
2. The education is to benefit them, not the parents
3. Why in the hell are parents income taken into account?!

Who's with me? No to the fafsa!!!

Submitted by flu on September 17, 2019 - 12:55am.

Because there are people who struggle and have a minimum wage job at best, and their kids deserve a chance to get out of the shithole, especially if their academic credentials are good.

And if it wasn't considered, people like me would make my kid apply for financial aid while I spend my money on a McLaren. Of course there are a lot of Americans that do just that, where they would bleed there live savings to death to buy bling and then complain about how their kid needs to take out a student loan....And I'm sure if you really wanted to, you could also take that approach...

But I guess for some of us, that goes against the grain of reason and responsibility....Yes, folks like this are suckers.. Oh well.

Submitted by flu on September 17, 2019 - 3:49am.

.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 17, 2019 - 6:34am.

flu wrote:
Because there are people who struggle and have a minimum wage job at best, and their kids deserve a chance to get out of the shithole, especially if their academic credentials are good.

And if it wasn't considered, people like me would make my kid apply for financial aid while I spend my money on a McLaren. Of course there are a lot of Americans that do just that, where they would bleed there live savings to death to buy bling and then complain about how their kid needs to take out a student loan....And I'm sure if you really wanted to, you could also take that approach...

But I guess for some of us, that goes against the grain of reason and responsibility....Yes, folks like this are suckers.. Oh well.

Why is the price absurdly high?

Student loans.

Why do parents feel morally compelled to over pay?

Fear

Submitted by svelte on September 17, 2019 - 6:54am.

We went through this also.

I wasn't happy either.

But I can see the other side of the fence, as flu points out.

Never did resolve my position on this subject. It is what it is I guess.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 17, 2019 - 7:11am.

Is it what it is? Or is it some bizarre economic aberration that society will soon look back on as absurd?

I guess I voted No, by saying no to any private school for my 3 kids. But I was lucky enough for 2 of them to get into cal state and afford it for cash, and the 3rd is looking good too. I dont feel personally scammed, other than all the woes I had with my own student loans.

But people I know are betting huge sum s on their kids futures paying sucker tuition fees like drunken tourists in vegas. Probably a dumber bet, too. Debt, draining bank accounts, foolishness! A GIANT SCAM.

What if one year every parent in america said NO. No mas!!!.

No loans.

No fafsa.

No help.

No money to colleges other than cash payments in 2020.

Bring the system to its knees.

The revolution will not be amortized.

Submitted by svelte on September 17, 2019 - 7:19am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
Is it what it is? Or is it some bizarre economic aberration that society will soon look back on as absurd?

I guess I voted No, by saying no to any private school for my 3 kids. But I was lucky enough for 2 of them to get into cal state and afford it for cash, and the 3rd is looking good too. I dont feel personally scammed, other than all the woes I had with my own student loans.

I do get frustrated seeing folks pay a ton for a history, english, or art degree. Absurd. But it's their money. This is where the Republican in me (not that I have a lot) comes out. Buyer beware. If you're stupid, you're bound to spend your money unwisely one way or another. Colleges seem a better receptacle of stupid money than other places.

Another time I was unhappy was when I considered going back for a second degree, and found out UC and State would charge MORE for a second degree! Theory being I guess that the state was chipping in for the first one, but I'd have to pay full rate for the second. I felt this was absurd and I was already paying a LOT for my first degree!

I also remember that my university implemented quite a surcharge on tuition my senior year to pay for building a new Student Union...that wouldn't open until after my senior year. I was extremely unhappy about that. Seniors should have received a pass on that surcharge!

This thread is reopening old wounds...

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 17, 2019 - 7:27am.

My mom thinks I'm being a dick, because she paid full freight at an ivy league school for me. I admit, the optics are not great.

She doesnt see me as on the moral high ground ranting against the system.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 17, 2019 - 7:29am.

flu wrote:
Because there are people who struggle and have a minimum wage job at best, and their kids deserve a chance to get out of the shithole, especially if their academic credentials are good.

And if it wasn't considered, people like me would make my kid apply for financial aid while I spend my money on a McLaren. Of course there are a lot of Americans that do just that, where they would bleed there live savings to death to buy bling and then complain about how their kid needs to take out a student loan....And I'm sure if you really wanted to, you could also take that approach...

But I guess for some of us, that goes against the grain of reason and responsibility....Yes, folks like this are suckers.. Oh well.

If parental income and money was by law not considered, kids would pay for their own education.

Which would lower the price.

And actually seems like a fair set up, notwithstanding the fact that I didnt pay for mine.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 17, 2019 - 7:32am.

svelte wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:
Is it what it is? Or is it some bizarre economic aberration that society will soon look back on as absurd?

I guess I voted No, by saying no to any private school for my 3 kids. But I was lucky enough for 2 of them to get into cal state and afford it for cash, and the 3rd is looking good too. I dont feel personally scammed, other than all the woes I had with my own student loans.

I do get frustrated seeing folks pay a ton for a history, english, or art degree. Absurd. But it's their money. This is where the Republican in me (not that I have a lot) comes out. Buyer beware. If you're stupid, you're bound to spend your money unwisely one way or another. Colleges seem a better receptacle of stupid money than other places.

Another time I was unhappy was when I considered going back for a second degree, and found out UC and State would charge MORE for a second degree! Theory being I guess that the state was chipping in for the first one, but I'd have to pay full rate for the second. I felt this was absurd and I was already paying a LOT for my first degree!

I also remember that my university implemented quite a surcharge on tuition my senior year to pay for building a new Student Union...that wouldn't open until after my senior year. I was extremely unhappy about that. Seniors should have received a pass on that surcharge!

This thread is reopening old wounds...

Make tuition require the same disclosures as security prospectuses.

Submitted by flu on September 17, 2019 - 7:48am.

You know, not every kid who is from a poor family gets a full ride to a good school. Many kids aren't your straight A student and just because a kid has a less than a straight A doesntean they don't deserve to have a shot at a good future. The issue is that what do you do with the kids that are from poor families with not the best grades? They get double dinged.

There are some kids I know from families with no money and are less than stellar grades from high school.. Now, they have even financia troubles entering a JC. They won't be able to finish college until they saved up enough money from waiting tables.

As much as I want to complain about the high cost of college tuition. I am thankfully kid doesn't have to go though this.

I did draw the line for her though. Even if she gets into an Ivy League school/Stanford/MIT....Unless she gets a full ride, I am not going to pay $400,000+ for a bachelors of arts or science(which is how much it's going to cost if you extrpolate that average 4% annual increase tuition/room/board ) I'd rather take 1/3 of that amount and let her have the money so she can use it as a downpayment for her own house or start her own business. Besides, most of those universities penalize Asian kids with quota limits, and I would probably be one of the parents paying full tuition to subsidize someone else's tuition and room and board who got in under a completely different criteria. So, I am voting with my dollars against those schools....even if I went to one of those schools.

And if my kid decides to major in some ubemployable major like Shakespearian History or Conversational Linguistics with job prospects of something requiring you to say "You want fries with that?" or "Grande or Vente?" So long 4 year college. Hello Junior College.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 17, 2019 - 8:10am.

Maybe children’s wealth should be taken into account for seniors on welfare.

Submitted by Myriad on September 17, 2019 - 11:38am.

scaredyclassic wrote:

Make tuition require the same disclosures as security prospectuses.

Sounds great, but I'm assuming 99% of the people wouldn't read them, just like prospectuses for investments. LOL

Submitted by flu on September 17, 2019 - 1:57pm.

.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 17, 2019 - 3:03pm.

Myriad wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:

Make tuition require the same disclosures as security prospectuses.

Sounds great, but I'm assuming 99% of the people wouldn't read them, just like prospectuses for investments. LOL

it's not necessary for all investors to read the prospectus, since information disclosed is incorporated into the price.... if you belie ve in an efficient market, and i think we all do, as that is our collective religion, then having the information mandated publicly available means it will be incorproated into all of our decisionmaking through the power of markets.

disclose endowments, salaries, all expenses...disclose all admissions standards.

disclose employment outcomes.

disclose financing ramifications and all borrowers repayment status, including late payments.

disclose disclose disclose.

i have a feeling demand would go down...

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 17, 2019 - 6:10pm.

Related to your homeless thread. Why is the marketplace still demanding drugs and alcohol despite all the disclosures and science.
Or junk food. The consumption has increased since calorie disclosure laws.

Submitted by flu on September 17, 2019 - 7:25pm.

It's in my opinion that college degrees at expensive and prestigious colleges has more or less evolved (devolved?) into something like a luxury car. For many people, going to an expensive, hard to obtain college is a mere exercise of futility of "keeping up with the Joneses"...in which the air of exclusivity trumps any sort of logic.

This is why I can't understand the point of sending a kid to a prestigious college for a bullshit degree that can't ever recoup the cost of tuition and room and board. Maybe for the top 0.001% where money grows on trees it doesn't matter. I went to one of those Ivy League schools that was difficult to get in and expensive and frankly I don't think I did that much better than anyone else that attended a good engineering school elsewhere..One could argue that part of the motivation and work ethics that it takes to get into these difficult schools is often a reflection of the person's future work ethics..But again, I've seen a lot of lazy slobs from all sorts of expensive private schools....And I admit one of the stupid reasons why I went was for the name, because back then I didn't know any better. It was good at impressing some chicks, except the ones that got into a better Ivy League school than you...lol

Maybe that's the solution. Colleges should offer tuition like luxury cars to get around the appearance of an expensive cost... Leases.....

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 17, 2019 - 8:29pm.

Supply and demand.
At one time modest Silicon Valley houses were affordable to the average joe working manufacturing. . Would you say those houses are not worth what people pay today? The law of economics is that it’s worth what people will pay.

In a global economy, we now have world wide demand for prestigious American education. In an information world, brands are more powerful, and hat’s how museums and universities are able to open branches abroad.

I think scaredy is arguing that financial aid is market distorting.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 17, 2019 - 11:21pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Supply and demand.
At one time modest Silicon Valley houses were affordable to the average joe working manufacturing. . Would you say those houses are not worth what people pay today? The law of economics is that it’s worth what people will pay.

In a global economy, we now have world wide demand for prestigious American education. In an information world, brands are more powerful, and hat’s how museums and universities are able to open branches abroad.

I think scaredy is arguing that financial aid is market distorting.

Yes it is. And I propose in protest all American parents say no to any aid package that involves loans or cash payments from parents.

Parental money distorts the market

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 18, 2019 - 10:21am.

scaredyclassic wrote:

Yes it is. And I propose in protest all American parents say no to any aid package that involves loans or cash payments from parents.

Parental money distorts the market

It will work for second tier and third tier universities. But the most prestigious universities have very strong brands and demand for their services.
I think even if UC berkeley, LA, or Irvine got their state funding cut off, they'd still find enough paying students.

You can chose to participate in the education marketplace or not. Maybe the brand is worth more tnan the education, but together they're worth whatever people will pay. I am sure Harvard could charge $1 million per year.

Humm.... I'm thinking that schools could develop a bid system like eBay. The highest bidder gets a slot. The low bidders get bumped off the "island". That would force 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year students to bid higher, else they'd be out. The system would be very transparent, market based.

Submitted by AN on September 19, 2019 - 4:26pm.

College doesn't have to be expensive. Especially if you live in CA. JC is free. CSU is cheap. Living at home is free. Everything else is a luxury. Don't complain if you can't afford a Ferrari. If someone pay for your Ferrari, by all mean, take it. But if you choose to pay for it, don't complain.

I'm going to tell my kids to take classes at JC during high school. So, when they graduate HS, they'll have most of their GE and lower division classes finished. Then they can take it easy during college, taking 2-3 classes a quarter/semester, and work 20-30 hours a week to pay for their college. When they graduate, not only won't they have student loans, they would have a lot of work experience that their competitors won't.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 23, 2019 - 11:28am.

Well csu is cheap. But if u do send them away to school, which might have some benefit, it's about 100k a kid, times 3, 300k, it's not nothing.

I'd say csu should be 1500 a year for any kid, not taking into account parents cash.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.