Who wants to be a landlord now?

User Forum Topic
Submitted by scruffydog on September 11, 2020 - 6:58pm

What .gov has done at all levels - and is planning to do - in response to the covid thing is unprecedented. Tenants not having to pay rent until Jan 2021. Can't evict anyone. Why do landlords have to bear the full financial brunt? Sure there is *some* relief offered to landlords with certain criteria but it is inconsequential. Sure people need a place to live but for free?! Sure you can chase down tenants in the courts for rent payment after covid ends...good luck. Tenants need to eat - why can't they go to Ralphs and get free food? Tenants need transportation for their jobs - why can't they go to the nearest car dealership and get a free car.
Tenants need free phones too! Explain to me why .gov can eliminate legal contract agreements and take my property (income) without compensation! And check out Prop 21...sheech! Guess the only way out is to sell my rentals and get killed with taxes. SDR? Rant off.

Submitted by sdrealtor on September 15, 2020 - 9:43pm.

How many in Sky ranch?

Submitted by pinkflamingo on September 15, 2020 - 10:23pm.

I have noticed that there seems to be more vacancies, e.g., more units listed for rent. And rental units are staying longer on the market.

We've had a tenant move out because they wanted a yard, but was able to get it rented. In that same community where normally very few rentals, there are now 5 units listed for rent.

Similarly in OC, the community we rented before we bought our house had 1 unit for rent 7 years ago, now has 15 units listed for rent. Some have sat there for 2 months.

In our current community we saw a house listed for rent and sat there for almost 6 weeks. Where as 2 years ago, it listed for the same price and was gone in a week.

Don't know if Rich is reading, but I would love to have a graph of number of rentals units by month for this year.

Submitted by gzz on September 16, 2020 - 3:21pm.

Pink, there's no central database for rentals.

Data on them is not reliable. Various sources on changes to local rents show different numbers, with one source saying, for example, +10%, another +3%, another -1%.

Using something like Zillow, you have to assume the percentage share of total rentals Zillow captures does not change over time. That assumption is probably wrong. Zillow used to scrape rental listings from other sites, I don't know if that's still the case.

Here's some recent data on rents:
https://timesofsandiego.com/business/202...

Submitted by sdrealtor on September 16, 2020 - 3:33pm.

Another issue is Zillow while the big player in rentals now was not only a few years ago. Any growth in listings is probably more to do with growing their business and market share than a change in the market

Submitted by sunny88 on September 16, 2020 - 5:55pm.

sdrealtor wrote:
How many in Sky ranch?

None. Most of them in Mira Mesa and Scripps Ranch.

Submitted by Coronita on September 16, 2020 - 8:11pm.

sunny88 wrote:
sdrealtor wrote:
How many in Sky ranch?

None. Most of them in Mira Mesa and Scripps Ranch.

Good for you. That's awesome.

Submitted by pinkflamingo on September 16, 2020 - 10:08pm.

Zillow has been a reliable rental platform for the last 5 years at least. Zillow owns hotpads and trulia and has syndicated listings to these platforms and craigslist. Zillow has owned hotpads since 2012, and trulia since 2014. You can share your zillow listing on cl since 2011.

The recent jump in number of rentals in the last 6 months is probably not due to mass adoption of zillow imo. A range of factors include people wanting larger yards to weather the pandemic, job loses, being able to work remote until 2021, schools being virtual seem more likely.

The anecdotes I pointed out are not sfh. It may be the case that there are more demand for sfh. They are mainly condos and townhomes. With the exception of the sfh in our hood. That particular home may mean fewer families willing to rent expensive houses just to get into a good school district where only virtual school is available. My 2 cents.

I wonder how short term rentals are doin.

Submitted by pinkflamingo on September 16, 2020 - 10:33pm.

Turns out Zillow has historic rent data. Looking at the 3 areas over the last 8 months doesn't seem to suggest a noticeable increase in total number of rentals. This leave me to think this phenomenon affects condos and town homes more so than sfh. Unfortunately, I can't break the data down by type of housing.

Submitted by sdrealtor on September 17, 2020 - 10:32am.

pinkflamingo wrote:
Zillow has been a reliable rental platform for the last 5 years at least. Zillow owns hotpads and trulia and has syndicated listings to these platforms and craigslist. Zillow has owned hotpads since 2012, and trulia since 2014. You can share your zillow listing on cl since 2011.

The recent jump in number of rentals in the last 6 months is probably not due to mass adoption of zillow imo. A range of factors include people wanting larger yards to weather the pandemic, job loses, being able to work remote until 2021, schools being virtual seem more likely.

The anecdotes I pointed out are not sfh. It may be the case that there are more demand for sfh. They are mainly condos and townhomes. With the exception of the sfh in our hood. That particular home may mean fewer families willing to rent expensive houses just to get into a good school district where only virtual school is available. My 2 cents.

I wonder how short term rentals are doin.

Agree with all this. Was referring to longer term than that

Submitted by Escoguy on October 7, 2020 - 8:50pm.

Ok, so closed on the new home in 4S on 30th (Wed).

Rented out by Monday at $3900.

Tenant offered to pay full rent up front, told wasn't necessary.

What I don't get:

1. why some owners post their home materially below market
2. why some homes sit for days without movement despite many inquiries/applications.

Maybe we just move faster but my impression is that some leave a lot money on the table by not knowing the market and not responding quickly. Not really sure I should complain as maybe that makes my life easier.
Cheers.

Submitted by sdrealtor on October 8, 2020 - 12:35pm.

Not everyone is competent. Not everyone cares. Some people are just difficult. That should cover most of it

Submitted by gzz on October 8, 2020 - 2:54pm.

There's a principal-agent issue with property management companies that lead to underpricing.

The management co prices $200 under market, gets a zillion applications, and chooses the tenant that seems to be zero trouble, or even corruptly chooses someone.

They only lose $10-20 a month from under pricing, but their workload might be 50% less than if the unit was priced at market.

Submitted by sdrealtor on October 8, 2020 - 3:08pm.

They also avoid churn which makes their job easier but does benefit the owner too

Submitted by scruffydog on October 14, 2020 - 11:19pm.

Does anybody notice that .gov is slowly trying to take away private property rights / negate rental contracts? Why does .gov give billions to big business for covid relief but almost nothing to landlords and then make it almost impossible to evict tenants? Rent control never made any sense to me; restricting return on private investment. If you bought Apple stock for $5 how would you like it if .gov mandated you could only sell it for $10 instead of $150?
Responses to my post are generally “So far I’m not affected so I don’t care”. I believe it will only get more difficult for rental property owners. I wouldn’t enter the rental business now.
Rents popped earlier this year in local areas I track. Looking at Zillow I have noticed recent sfr rent price reductions. Sales are still strong, very little inventory in 92124. Out of control in Canada - median up 54% in London On in 2 yrs. Toronto most overvalued in North America. Crazy times.

Submitted by Coronita on October 15, 2020 - 4:45am.

scruffydog wrote:
Does anybody notice that .gov is slowly trying to take away private property rights / negate rental contracts? Why does .gov give billions to big business for covid relief but almost nothing to landlords and then make it almost impossible to evict tenants? Rent control never made any sense to me; restricting return on private investment. If you bought Apple stock for $5 how would you like it if .gov mandated you could only sell it for $10 instead of $150?
Responses to my post are generally “So far I’m not affected so I don’t care”. I believe it will only get more difficult for rental property owners. I wouldn’t enter the rental business now.
Rents popped earlier this year in local areas I track. Looking at Zillow I have noticed recent sfr rent price reductions. Sales are still strong, very little inventory in 92124. Out of control in Canada - median up 54% in London On in 2 yrs. Toronto most overvalued in North America. Crazy times.

California can propose as many property rights restrictions as it wants via Propositions. It's up to the voters to decide. Outside of California, I don't think the challenge to property rights is as bad as people make it out to be.

Even in CA, most of the property rights challenges that are really out of wack such as state mandated rent control are coming from the far left progressives, which probably feel more empowered these days given that CA has a supermajority in both chambers of the government. As soon as that supermajority is broken, we can probably get back to some normalcy. It will happen. If you lived long enough in CA, things don't stay far one way or the other very long. It takes some time, but the pendulum do swing back to somewhere in the center eventually.

Imho it's generally a bad idea to let politics and fear of taxes get in the way of investments. Just as much I think it would be naive to think that some additional taxes can't possibly be passed, it's probably equally naive to think given with the new constraint or taxes, one can't make money off of rentals. The taxes aren't currently the problem. The problem right now is that given how hot the housing market still is in SoCal and San Diego, it's still difficult for properties bought now to pencil out nicely.

That would be like saying...Oh, well eventually the government is going to dip into people's Roth 401k/Roth IRA (which could very well be true)....so lets not put any money into a Roth IRA/401k....I'm pretty confident if you do that, you and your retirement account will regret it 20-30 years from now.

I view this differently. I think that if the perception of investing becomes more difficult for a given asset categories, fewer determined people will look into doing it. And with fewer people looking to do it, there's less competition...Afterall, most people get easily discouraged...

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 15, 2020 - 12:58pm.

Agree.

My parents lived in the same rent stabilized as opposed to rent controlled unit in nyc for exactly 50 years. I think it provided for larger though not market rent increases. The unit was bought and sold, rent still stabilized.

The landlord still made a mint on the unit via appreciation

I think the nyc landlords only really get hurt when someone stays very long term. The shorter the stay the lower the impact if the rent resets on vacancy. Avg dtays probably not that long, definitely not 50 years.
.

The people most harmed were young people seeking a market priced unit.did the scarcity caused by people not moving cause the value to appreciate even more? Maybe.

I often think of fred mertz on i love lucy. His building is worth a fortune today, rigght? 5-20 million? More? Yet he was just a hustling landlord on the show, cheap, regular dude. If hed sold as rent control was in place hed have missed out on huge appreciation. Course he was about 60 in the 1950s. Prob. Wouldnt have lived to see it.

https://boards.straightdope.com/t/werent...

some chat on the mertz finances and references to building ownership on the show. I guess Im not the only one who was thinking about it.

Its very difficult to see the consequences of these rent control band aids that attempt to make the harshness of capitalism kinder.

Fred mertz. Great character. Apparently the actor was a colossal prick in real life.

Submitted by svelte on October 15, 2020 - 2:58pm.

Guess I'm not really in favor of rent control. If rents get too high and drive folks out, then eventually there won't be workers around in the lower pay wages so either (a) they'll have to pay higher wages, or (b) the city will start thinning out because of lack of workers to keep it running.

There are protections that I think need to be built into even a democratic society, but rent control isn't one of them.

Submitted by an on October 15, 2020 - 11:04pm.

Coronita, with the demographic shift, I don't see how we'll swing back to center anytime soon. Maybe after when I'm dead and gone.

Submitted by davelj on October 26, 2020 - 7:23pm.

I'm a landlord... in Colombia. I wouldn't touch anything in CA right now.

Submitted by Coronita on October 27, 2020 - 12:00am.

davelj wrote:
I'm a landlord... in Colombia. I wouldn't touch anything in CA right now.

I don't get this. doesn't this seem like this is a pretty broad stroke to be painting?

Submitted by sdrealtor on October 27, 2020 - 11:53am.

Coronita wrote:
davelj wrote:
I'm a landlord... in Colombia. I wouldn't touch anything in CA right now.

I don't get this. doesn't this seem like this is a pretty broad stroke to be painting?

FWIW real estate in Columbia seems a lot riskier than CA or the US stock market for many reasons. Bit mystified by that choice

Submitted by teaboy on October 27, 2020 - 2:58pm.

svelte wrote:
Guess I'm not really in favor of rent control.

Isn't rent control simply the proletariat's version of prop 13?

So, if one is against rent control, one should be just as vehemently against prop 13, right?

tb

Submitted by Coronita on October 28, 2020 - 7:32am.

teaboy wrote:
svelte wrote:
Guess I'm not really in favor of rent control.

Isn't rent control simply the proletariat's version of prop 13?

So, if one is against rent control, one should be just as vehemently against prop 13, right?

tb

Not even close

Submitted by svelte on October 28, 2020 - 8:00am.

teaboy wrote:
svelte wrote:
Guess I'm not really in favor of rent control.

Isn't rent control simply the proletariat's version of prop 13?

So, if one is against rent control, one should be just as vehemently against prop 13, right?

tb

That would hold true if one views a month-to-month (or a year lease) as a permanent contract between a landlord and tenant.

I do not, nor does the law in most locations. All terms are subject to change at the end of the month or lease.

Submitted by teaboy on October 28, 2020 - 9:13am.

svelte wrote:

That would hold true if one views a month-to-month (or a year lease) as a permanent contract between a landlord and tenant.

I do not, nor does the law in most locations. All terms are subject to change at the end of the month or lease.

That's a valid legal argument.
However, I was referring more to the spirit/purpose of the two respective laws.. i.e. to prevent folks being forced out of their homes due to (greater than normal inflationary) cost increases, out of their control.

tb

ps. of course, spirits are, by nature, wispy ethereal old things, aren't they? :-)

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 28, 2020 - 9:39am.

In nyc rent stabilized apts can be passed on at the low rent to children under certain circs.

True.

Submitted by davelj on October 28, 2020 - 10:46am.

Not from where I sit.

Submitted by davelj on October 28, 2020 - 10:57am.

Columbia is a university (and perhaps a few towns in the US of the same name), but in Colombia, the country, I rent to expats whose rental rate is tied to the dollar. My cash yield net of expenses and vacancies is 11% with no leverage. That seems ok to me. Risk and the perception thereof are two different things - many folks confuse the two. Nevertheless, I wouldn't put all of my eggs in that one basket, but as part of a quasi-diversified portfolio of assets, I suspect it will play its part. Also, I'm in Medellin a fair amount as it is (well, pre-pandemia) so it's a local asset to me.

Submitted by sdrealtor on October 28, 2020 - 1:20pm.

I dont think we at least not I were questioning risk related to tenants. The risk there is geopolitical and far beyond anyting that exists here

Submitted by davelj on October 28, 2020 - 3:51pm.

sdrealtor wrote:
I dont think we at least not I were questioning risk related to tenants. The risk there is geopolitical and far beyond anyting that exists here

So, you feel like you have a good grasp of the geopolitical risk of a country that you can't spell properly, and by extension we can presume you know virtually nothing about? Duly noted.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.