Trump Presidency Death Watch

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Submitted by svelte on July 28, 2017 - 10:03pm

After the first six months of the Presidency that we've just witnessed, what are the chances he's going to make it another 3.5 years?

Any guesses on what will do him in?

Do you still think he'll make it the full term?

I have to say I put the odds he'd leave at not very high until this week...but with the turmoil we're seeing in his staff and the way he attacks even those close to him, I can't see how he is going to attract anyone of any caliber to support him. I really can't.

This is a very amazing thing to watch.

Submitted by harvey on August 2, 2017 - 1:52pm.

no_such_reality wrote:
He's President, not a god.

He's ineffective and everything he's done is basically bulldozers just moving dirt piles to sucker investors.

You're buying it like the suckers in his casino.

He deserves to have his positions laughed off the stage because that's how they really are at this point, laughable.

I'm the one that posted a picture of a dumpster fire.

That was a joke. Because I'm laughing at what is laughable.

I agree that he is just a president - one of the positives that has come out of this crazy ride is that we are a seeing the rule of law tested and so far it is holding up well.

It's more of an embarrassment at this point, that he flouts the rule of law so brazenly while so many Americans cheer him on with the justification of "because liberals."

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 2, 2017 - 2:13pm.

spdrun wrote:
I hope more people buy it. The chaos when illusions come suddenly crashing down will be ... exploitable.

That will be fun to watch.

Do Trump supporters have Plan B? They would if they were good financial managers.

I feel sorry for Tea Partiers because they boxed themselves in such a way that won't allow them any face saving. Remember Michele Bachman's light bulb act? If you supported her, can you now use LED bulbs without losing face? What about hybrid and electric cars? Solar evergy? Free range chicken? Organic eggs?

Can you imagine a Trump voter moving to a progressive metro to take a 21st century job in renewable energy? Or an ivory tower university?

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 2, 2017 - 2:46pm.

harvey wrote:
no_such_reality wrote:

He deserves to have his positions laughed off the stage because that's how they really are at this point, laughable.

I'm the one that posted a picture of a dumpster fire.

That was a joke. Because I'm laughing at what is laughable.

Oh, I think there's common ground!

I prefer the word "derisible" over "laughable".
I find it very interesting that conservatives are now often arguing that ignorant, low-class behavior should be respected and "listened to".

Historically, absent liberal accommodations and government protection of bad behavior, scorn, derision and social ostracism was the way to keep the traditions.

Example, how do you keep people from sex outside of marriage? Religious judgement, scorn and derision, obviously.

Submitted by svelte on August 2, 2017 - 7:01pm.

sdduuuude wrote:
The liberals have cried "wolf" too much on Trump and have not picked their battles well at all.

Rather than pointing out specific policies that have resulted in specific problems, they just attack Trump personally.

When something concrete emerges, will they be able to take advantage of it ? I doubt it.

To some degree I agree with you.

Every evening, I stand on my machine at the gym and watch CNN and Fox News side-by-side. Both stations make me sick really with how lob-sided they report things. They both sing to their base, to hell with being fair.

The left needs a clear message. Supposedly they have been working on that - the 2018 elections will give us a clue as to how successful they are.

The use of insulting nicknames for politicians they don't like also gets under my skin. The right did it with Obama (remember 'Obummer' and worse?) and now the left is doing it to Trump and staff.

If any politician ever deserves ridicule it's Trump so I shed no tear for that boy, however.

Submitted by harvey on August 2, 2017 - 8:07pm.

svelte wrote:
The use of insulting nicknames for politicians they don't like also gets under my skin. The right did it with Obama (remember 'Obummer' and worse?) and now the left is doing it to Trump and staff.

You mean like "Crooked Hillary?"

Has any other president or serious presidential candidate ever consistently used a disparaging nickname for their opponent in US history? I challenge anyone to find an example.

"The left" is not CNN. It's not the people who post in the comments section of a news article.

It's really not worthwhile to generalize "the left" "the right" etc. but if we must go there the left should be defined as the leadership of the Democratic party. And none of the Democratic party leadership uses insulting nicknames. The Republican leadership never did either, until Trump came along.

Trump built his entire political brand on tabloid-style insults and attacks. His twitter feed is a national embarrassment of name calling and references to his self-proclaimed victories in petty personal battles against mostly irrelevant people.

Remember the birther nonsense? You know, Obama wasn't really born in the US (which wouldn't even be legally relevant, but it would make him a little more "African.")

Trump ran with that one, for years.

As for policies, there's no evidence that he even understands how Obamacare works, the central issue in his platform. He's going to lower taxes, lower the deficit, decrease imports while increasing exports, build infrastructure, and increase military spending - all without any specific plan at all. That is the substance of his policies.

And yet his supporters come to this conclusion:

sdduuuude wrote:
Rather than pointing out specific policies that have resulted in specific problems, they just attack Trump personally.

The amazing thing about the Trump presidency is not Trump himself - he's really just an ordinary con man. The amazing thing is the alternate reality that his supporters have created to reconcile his words and actions.

Because yeah, it's the "liberals" that ignore issues and just attack personally.

Submitted by flu on August 2, 2017 - 8:15pm.

Trump is going make it through 4 years. He might even last 8.

Middle America loves him. Because they still believe what he says. That's fine.

Believe what you want to believe. Life goes on. We are still doing great here in CA.

Submitted by svelte on August 2, 2017 - 8:23pm.

harvey wrote:

"The left" is not CNN. It's not the people who post in the comments section of a news article.

CNN is most definitely on the left. I can tell you that for sure.

Submitted by harvey on August 2, 2017 - 8:31pm.

svelte wrote:
harvey wrote:

"The left" is not CNN. It's not the people who post in the comments section of a news article.

CNN is most definitely on the left. I can tell you that for sure.

Whoosh!

Submitted by SK in CV on August 2, 2017 - 9:15pm.

harvey wrote:
svelte wrote:
harvey wrote:

"The left" is not CNN. It's not the people who post in the comments section of a news article.

CNN is most definitely on the left. I can tell you that for sure.

Whoosh!

Well...if he says so. For sure.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 2, 2017 - 10:34pm.

flu wrote:
Trump is going make it through 4 years. He might even last 8.

Middle America loves him. Because they still believe what he says. That's fine.

Believe what you want to believe. Life goes on. We are still doing great here in CA.

I agree. Learn, adapt or perish.

Middle America has antiquated skills and retrograde values. They're not going to succeed unless they change. But they have to really want to change.

Life goes on...

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 3, 2017 - 7:29pm.

A few days after John Kelly is brought in to bring order, there's a huge leak of Trump's conversations with Turnbull and Pena Nieto.

Afghanistan is not doing well and Trump now wants to fire the general in charge.

New Grand Jury on Russia investigation.

It will be fun to watch.

Submitted by svelte on August 16, 2017 - 4:21pm.

Drip, drip, drip.

Things are piling up.

Says the most outlandish things about White Supremacists causing many on his Business Councils to flee, so he just folds the councils.

I don't know how this man recovers...his goodwill is in deep negative territory now. Anyone who cozies up to him after all of this is a fool.

Get out while you can, John Kelly.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/16/news/tru...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/...

Inge Thulin (3M) and Denise Morrison (Campbells) quit before Trump folded them, then Greg Hayes (UT) quit after (uh, how do you quit a council that doesn't exist?).

Amazingly bad press for the doofus. Just an amazing thing to watch.

Submitted by svelte on August 16, 2017 - 4:51pm.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...

Ah! Trump had caught wind they had planned to disband themselves, so he beat them to the punch!

He is so hard to keep up with.

Sat 8/12 Noon - Charlottesville riot happens
Sat 8/12 3 PM - Trump blames incident on "many sides"
Sun 8/13 - Protests around the country
Mon 8/14 - Frazier (Merck), Plank (UnderArmor), Krzanich (Intel) quit council
Mon 8/14 - Trump states "racism is evil"
Tue 8/15 - Trump states “I think there is blame on both sides,” the president said in a combative exchange with reporters at Trump Tower in Manhattan. “You had a group on one side that was bad. You had a group on the other side that was also very violent. Nobody wants to say that. I’ll say it right now.”
Tues 8/15 - Trump tweets "For every CEO that drops out of the Manufacturing Council, I have many to take their place. "
Tues 8/15 - Trumka (AFL-CIO), Paul (AAM), Lee (AFL-CLO) quit council
Wed 8/16 - Thulin (3M), Morrison (Campbell), Gorsky (J&J), Hayes (UT) resign from Council
Wed 8/16 - Trump and Business Council both decide to disband

What. A thing to witness. Truly awesome.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-t...

Submitted by harvey on August 16, 2017 - 5:02pm.

He never was a business leader. He was just rich.

Submitted by zk on August 16, 2017 - 5:42pm.

harvey wrote:

And yet his supporters come to this conclusion:

sdduuuude wrote:
Rather than pointing out specific policies that have resulted in specific problems, they just attack Trump personally.

The amazing thing about the Trump presidency is not Trump himself - he's really just an ordinary con man. The amazing thing is the alternate reality that his supporters have created to reconcile his words and actions.

Because yeah, it's the "liberals" that ignore issues and just attack personally.

I agree.

And I would add that it is valid to attack him personally. If a person has certain bad character traits, then he's not fit to be president. And Donald Trump has almost every bad character trait I can think of. Here are a few:

Sloppy. Lazy. Incurious. Petty. Vindictive. Willfully ignorant. Deceitful. Childish. Arrogant. Callous. Cowardly. Cruel. Improvident. Greedy. Foolish. Impulsive. Impatient. Intolerant. Selfish. Self-centered. Narcissistic. Boorish. Tactless. Thoughtless. Untrustworthy. Weak-minded.

He's all of those things and more. Are those personal attacks? Sure they are. Should we refrain from leveling those attacks on him because they don't pertain to policies? Of course we shouldn't. Because those traits affect his leadership of the people of this country, his relationships with congress, with foreign leaders, with other politicians, with business leaders. Etc. Those personality traits affect his ability to collaborate with any person or group of people. Those personality traits affect our standing in the world. Those personality traits are a huge part of what makes him the horrible president that he is.

Submitted by harvey on August 16, 2017 - 8:51pm.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/stat...

For every CEO that drops out of the Manufacturing Council, I have many to take their place. Grandstanders should not have gone on. JOBS!

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 17, 2017 - 11:11am.

harvey wrote:
He never was a business leader. He was just rich.

It shows how being rich makes up for a lot. People are a lot more forgiving of the rich.

Imagine if Trump were poor, how long would his wife, friends and business associates stick around?

A wise friend once told me that if you lack certain qualities, you need to make up in other ways. Money is a great way to compensate.

Submitted by sdduuuude on August 21, 2017 - 9:51pm.

You know, zk and Harvey, fuck you both for calling me a Trump supporter. Just because I say the liberals are acting like morons, and they are, doesn't mean I'm a Trump supporter or a Republican or a Fox watcher.

Trump is making the liberals look like fools. Plain and simple. That I realize this doesn't make me a Trump supporter.

The liberals sent Hillary to battle. She sucked so badly that Trump, even with all the adjectives you use to describe him, beat her. Strangely, you blame Fox news for this and not the shortcomings of the liberal message.

When Clinton was getting his cigar smoked by "that woman" the message from the Democrat side was that the character of the person didn't matter, it was what he accomplished as President.

Let the sour grapes continue.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 22, 2017 - 10:32am.

Sour grapes?

So in your book, the winner always has the best message?
Also did you consider that Trump won not because the majority voted for him, but because of the electoral college?

Consider this: Walmart is best because is sells the most. Amazon too.

Oh, and Bill Clinton is relevant to Hillary because a woman is still responsible for the past actions of her husband. Sounds like retrograde thinking to me.

Character matters, by we can separate private consenting behavior from puclic life.
Back on the 1990s a blow job was a big deal. So trying to cover it up was understandable. Before that, having breast cancer or a child win down syndrome were shameful. Today, nobody much cares about those things anymore.

I believe a democratic, progressive message of equity in a complex global world is very hard to convey. There are nuances and complexities that don't translate well in a media landscape that is made of sound bites. And of course the right wing media like to rile up simple minded people to want badass policy responses. The right wing media push emotional buttons to illicit crass "what-the-tuck" responses.

Submitted by zk on August 23, 2017 - 10:57am.

sdduuuude wrote:

You know, zk and Harvey, fuck you both for calling me a Trump supporter.


I didn’t call you a trump supporter. I agreed with harvey’s statement that trump supporters have concluded that it’s wrong for trump non-supporters to attack him personally and that only attacks on his policies are valid.

I could have included a sentence stating that sdduuuude isn’t necessarily a trump supporter, and I probably should have, but I didn’t think it was necessary at the time.

sdduuuude wrote:

Just because I say the liberals are acting like morons, and they are,


How are liberals acting like morons, exactly?

sdduuuude wrote:

doesn't mean I'm a Trump supporter or a Republican or a Fox watcher.

No, but your position seems to be more consistent with fox propaganda than it does with common sense. And you’ve always seemed a common-sense type of guy, outside of politics. Hence the conjecture that you probably watch fox.

sdduuuude wrote:

Trump is making the liberals look like fools. Plain and simple.

How is that, exactly?

I would argue that he’s making his supporters (and therefore a sizeable majority of republicans) look pathetic and disgusting for supporting such a vile human being, and I’m quite curious to see how you think he’s making liberals look like fools.

sdduuuude wrote:

The liberals sent Hillary to battle. She sucked so badly that Trump, even with all the adjectives you use to describe him, beat her. Strangely, you blame Fox news for this and not the shortcomings of the liberal message.

Hillary was a very weak candidate. Mostly because many Americans had a very dim view of her, which was mostly due to fox et al. besmirching her for the past 30 years. Regardless of why she was weak, she was weak, and the democrats did send her to battle. Big mistake, I agree. But even with the dim view that most Americans had of her, she wouldn’t have lost to trump without a lot of help from fox (in addition to the help they provided by smearing her for decades). She wouldn’t have lost to a man who doesn’t deserve to be a high school teacher, let alone the president.

So I do blame fox (and the rest of the right-wing noise machine). They took a woman who was brilliant and tough, but lacked vision and warmth, and they tore her down while they built up trump, and they conned millions of Americans into thinking a man who is neither brilliant nor tough, and who also lacks vision and warmth, and who has the temperament of a 3rd grade bully, among countless other disqualifying personality traits, was better than her.

sdduuuude wrote:

When Clinton was getting his cigar smoked by "that woman" the message from the Democrat side was that the character of the person didn't matter, it was what he accomplished as President.

See, it’s that kind of faulty reasoning that makes me think you watch right-wing media. I don’t understand how, without some kind of manipulation having occurred, a smart guy like you can’t see the problem with that logic. To wit: Getting your cigar smoked by an intern does not make you an ineffective president. Trump's human failings do. If you can't see how trump's personal flaws make him a terrible president, ask me for a list. (If you do partake of non-right-wing media, you'll already know this, as items on said list are reported by the NYT and WAPO quite regularly. One generally doesn't see them on fox, though.)

sdduuuude wrote:

Let the sour grapes continue.

Sour grapes means that you want something but can’t have it, and therefore conclude that that thing you wanted before you found out you couldn’t have it is bad. Doesn’t apply in this case.

People misuse that fable all the time, and it bugs me. Particularly when it’s used to somehow cast aspersions on any negative opinions and opine that those negative opinions are somehow invalid. If our president is a disaster of a human being such that it’s causing problems for our country, it is not sour grapes to call him out. It’s patriotic.

Submitted by flu on August 23, 2017 - 1:30pm.

You know guys. Instead of congregating here and being unhappy about Trump, have you guys considered going to Breibart, registering for the forums, and trolling the regular alt-right posters there? It seems like for the same amount of time you would be spending, it would be a lot more entertaining for you. Plus you can affirm everything you already think about them.

Congregating here seems more like trying to form a support group. Which no offense looks pretty pathetic imho... No offense...

And it's pretty interesting there these days after Bannon got fired.. you actually have a bunch of hardcore Bannon supporters there that are now calling Trump and Ivanka a liberal. And you have a bunch of hard core Trump supporters calling Breibart and Bannon fake news now.... It's very entertaining. At the very least, you can try to understand how some people tick. Just a thought. I am there just to understand people I would never know in real life. I consider it an educational exercise.

Submitted by zk on August 23, 2017 - 2:21pm.

flu wrote:

You know guys. Instead of congregating here and being unhappy about Trump, have you guys considered going to Breibart, registering for the forums, and trolling the regular alt-right posters there? It seems like for the same amount of time you would be spending, it would be a lot more entertaining for you. Plus you can affirm everything you already think about them.


That would be entertaining. Trolling just isn’t my thing.

flu wrote:

Congregating here seems more like trying to form a support group. Which no offense looks pretty pathetic imho... No offense...

Not trying to form a support group. Huge swaths of the of the country are pretty much a support group right now if I needed that. But I don’t need that.

What am I doing here? That would be a fine question. It really is a waste of time. I’m not changing anybody’s mind.

Sometimes it’s a challenge to understand an issue and then to frame a concept and to write a post well. Gotta work the brain sometimes. Although I have been rushing my writing recently. Maybe that's the first step to quitting.

flu wrote:

And it's pretty interesting there these days after Bannon got fired.. you actually have a bunch of hardcore Bannon supporters there that are now calling Trump and Ivanka a liberal. And you have a bunch of hard core Trump supporters calling Breibart and Bannon fake news now.... It's very entertaining. At the very least, you can try to understand how some people tick. Just a thought. I am there just to understand people I would never know in real life. I consider it an educational exercise.

That's admirable. It would certainly help if we all understood each other a little better. I’d be curious to hear any other insights you might’ve gained about them.

Submitted by svelte on August 23, 2017 - 5:46pm.

agree with both flu and zk, or at least I can see their points of view above.

I'm not here that often, but when I do come by it is to try and get a better understanding of why the left and the right behave the way they do. It really baffles me. Every time I think I have a handle on it, something else happens that changes my mind. There are some bright minds on here that offer pretty insightful reads, more than I typically find on CNN or Fox or other sources.

I've never been a support group kinda guy. As a matter of fact, you can count on one hand the number of voluntary groups I've ever belonged to. Just not my thing. I'm kind of a loner.

Back to the first paragraph. One thing I am learning from all of this is that my theory that folks on the right were such jerks to Obama was because he was black was wrong for the most part. For most of them, that doesn't appear to have been the reason. They have control of the govt, and they are being just as big of jerks to each other! Look at the sniping between congressmen and Trump, between Bannon and virtually everyone, Scaramucci's little outburst, on and on. They just love to bash everything, not just the first black president! I'm not sure that makes me relieved or more upset, actually...

Submitted by harvey on August 23, 2017 - 8:56pm.

sdduuuude wrote:
You know, zk and Harvey, fuck you both for calling me a Trump supporter. Just because I say the liberals are acting like morons, and they are, doesn't mean I'm a Trump supporter or a Republican or a Fox watcher.

Trump is making the liberals look like fools. Plain and simple. That I realize this doesn't make me a Trump supporter.

The liberals sent Hillary to battle. She sucked so badly that Trump, even with all the adjectives you use to describe him, beat her. Strangely, you blame Fox news for this and not the shortcomings of the liberal message.

When Clinton was getting his cigar smoked by "that woman" the message from the Democrat side was that the character of the person didn't matter, it was what he accomplished as President.

Let the sour grapes continue.

Dude, if you wanna give Trump a blowjob, just ask him

Submitted by flu on August 23, 2017 - 10:20pm.

zk wrote:

That's admirable. It would certainly help if we all understood each other a little better. I’d be curious to hear any other insights you might’ve gained about them.

There's nothing admirable in what I am doing. I like to learn about how people think so I know what I'm up against in this world. I like to study people's strength and weaknesses, their insecurities, and fears, and what makes them think and act a certain way.. It comes in handy at times, both to strengthen people you care about, and weaken people who pose a threat to you.

As the saying goes... Keep your friends close..But keep your enemies closer.

It's a great movie, BTW..

But back to the original question... At the fringes of alt-right, at least from the message blogs Breibart board....A lot of alt-right actually hate Ivanka a lot. I think it's a combination of them being a misogynist, and seeing a very capable woman, that is also attractive, and her excessive influence over Donald. They literally think Ivanka is a alt-left liberal. A lot of them think she was the primary reason why Bannon got fired. And started to hate Trump for letting her influence him so much (whether it's real or not)... Jokingly, I mentioned it would be interesting if we saw an Ivanka/Hillary on the 2020 ticket together, and it wouldn't be a bad thing....Judging from the reactions, if I said that in person, I probably would have gotten myself killed. lol...

If the moderates really are smart, they would try to figure out a way to make the alt-right/middle America divisive among themselves, so that they won't be such a large voting block in the mid term. And the way to do this is to portray Trump as a moderate like Arnold (even if he isn't). Many already feel he sold them out. Perception is reality, so if that were amplified, I think a given percentage of them would not be voting for him the second time around.

And this is where I think liberal media (like CNN) got it all wrong. Every single time media like CNN points out how horrible a statement, thing trump did or say, and provides dozens of commentary about how terrible Trump is, all this is doing is feeding the alt-right fire. They'll continue to think "trump is right" CNN is fake news, media is not to be trusted, and stand even stronger with trump... On the other hand, if liberal media worded things in a way such as to portray some of the things Trump does is similar to Obama or what Hillary would be doing, it would feed the fire that some alt-right folks think Trump is a traitor. That's why i think CNN and other liberal media are using the completely wrong strategy.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 24, 2017 - 11:08am.

First CNN is not left. It's center establishment.
Republicans have moved so far to the right that the center becomes left in their minds.

The left wing media does make fun of Trump supporters. Like Louise Linton poor shaming the ugly, non fashionable women who are the wives of the deplorables.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 24, 2017 - 12:13pm.

ZK, i disagree that Hillary was a bad candidate. She did try to adjust her message to the populists by rejecting TPP.

Trump's win was the last stand is the retrogade deplorable in the rust belt. Why should we adjust our way is life for them? We should embrace globalization, diversity, multiculturalism, technology and innovation. The coal economy and incandescent light bulbs? Are you kidding me?

In a way, I'm glad Hillary lost because Trump is unmasking who the Republicans really are. There is no more plausible denial. The next generation will reject Trumpism like they rejected segregation and apartheid.

Trumpism has also spurred a lot of innovation at the state and local levels where people are adopting laws to counter Trump. Do people want to live in progressive enclaves like Charlottesville, Austin, or Columbus? Or do they want to live with their grandparents in red country in the red states? People will have to choose the lifestyle they want. If they choose wrong, oh well... too bad.

I believe the American people as a wholewill make the right choice. No need to placate the deplorables. Remember Hillary won the popular vote.

Submitted by flu on August 24, 2017 - 12:29pm.

Oh CNN is totally left. At least the website is and the majority of the editorials they choose to run. If you can't see that, you are blind.

BBC is much more centered imho.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 24, 2017 - 2:01pm.

flu wrote:
Oh CNN is totally left. At least the website is and the majority of the editorials they choose to run. If you can't see that, you are blind.

BBC is much more centered imho.

What standards are you using? CNN in relation to Breitbart?

Breitbart wants culture war and the dismantling of the state. Bannon said so. CNN is just very moderate "within the establishment" model.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 24, 2017 - 2:08pm.

To people who are Trump supporters, write down you thoughts in a journal. Be honest and lay out all your grievances. Tell it like it is. If you are so sure of yourselves show the journals to your kids and grandkids when they reach maturity. If you are correct, your progeny will embrace you and love you more. Or do video vlogs.

I'm sure the descendants of alt-right demonstrators in Charlottesville will be proud to see the videos on the Net. Someone should archive them forever.

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