They will never be fogotten

User Forum Topic
Submitted by SD Realtor on September 11, 2011 - 7:55am

Been immersing myself in alot of the 9/11 documentaries this week. Especially touching are the stories of victims who knowingly gave there lives to help other people live.

God bless all of the victims.

Submitted by afx114 on September 11, 2011 - 8:30am.

I had forgotten until you posted this. Thanks a lot SDR for bumming out my Sunday.

Submitted by Scarlett on September 11, 2011 - 11:28am.

God bless them.

I was doing the same.

There seem to be more stories coming out to life or perhaps only now being widely publicized that there were at the time. Maybe my memory is failing me.

As a side story -though it doesn't involve a victim - but a would-have-been hero
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/f-16...

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 11, 2011 - 11:47am.

Not sure what the point if all the memorialization is. That we should be more war like?more paranoid than we are about terrorism? I mean what's the takeaway message? Is it just the number of dead? It's really a rather small number compared to automobile deaths or Iraqi civilian deaths. Not sure what it all means.

I'm not saying don't defend against terrorism. Just well jeez, is this what's going to define the empire for the remainder of it's existence? If some Irish terrorists hit l.a are we going to have to bomb Ireland back to the stone age and then rebuild it?

I guess so.

Seems to give terrorists more power and significance than they merit.

Why all this remembrance?

Submitted by briansd1 on September 11, 2011 - 12:50pm.

walterwhite wrote:
Not sure what the point if all the memorialization is. That we should be more war like?more paranoid than we are about terrorism? I mean what's the takeaway message? Is it just the number of dead? It's really a rather small number compared to automobile deaths or Iraqi civilian deaths. Not sure what it all means.

I'm not saying don't defend against terrorism. Just well jeez, is this what's going to define the empire for the remainder of it's existence? If some Irish terrorists hit l.a are we going to have to bomb Ireland back to the stone age and then rebuild it?

I guess so.

Seems to give terrorists more power and significance than they merit.

Why all this remembrance?

I agree walter.

The way we reacted, and the way we are still obscessed, the terrorists won, IMHO.

Submitted by NotCranky on September 11, 2011 - 12:57pm.

briansd1 wrote:
walterwhite wrote:
Not sure what the point if all the memorialization is. That we should be more war like?more paranoid than we are about terrorism? I mean what's the takeaway message? Is it just the number of dead? It's really a rather small number compared to automobile deaths or Iraqi civilian deaths. Not sure what it all means.

I'm not saying don't defend against terrorism. Just well jeez, is this what's going to define the empire for the remainder of it's existence? If some Irish terrorists hit l.a are we going to have to bomb Ireland back to the stone age and then rebuild it?

I guess so.

Seems to give terrorists more power and significance than they merit.

Why all this remembrance?

I agree walter.

The way we reacted, and the way we are still obscessed, the terrorists won, IMHO.

The "terrorists" didn't win, our leaders and some salespeople are beating us to death with it.

walterwhite wrote:

Why all this remembrance?

It's a great platform to propagandize from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb6cswhLU8s

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 11, 2011 - 1:28pm.

There is value to forgetting and letting go. No one under age 65 gets worked up over pearl harbor, do they. Like, never forget, watch the sneaky japs, that kind of thing?

Never forget kind of implies an eternal grudge.

Submitted by SD Realtor on September 11, 2011 - 2:08pm.

Yeha I guess we should just forget all about bad things in history. WWII and the holocaust, things like that are better forgotten in some peoples worlds. Lets not forget slavery either.

Submitted by moneymaker on September 11, 2011 - 2:18pm.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." famous quote by someone I can't remember who
My pet peave is when people say someone gave their life for something. In my book that would equate to suicide, I think it would be more proper to say they risked their life.

Submitted by Scarlett on September 11, 2011 - 2:38pm.

threadkiller wrote:
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." famous quote by someone I can't remember who.

George Santayana - Spanish philosopher
"Life of Reason" vol. I
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Sant...

Submitted by flyer on September 11, 2011 - 3:39pm.

Thanks for posting this topic SD Realtor.

Since I had a friend who died on one of the planes that day, I do, and always will, respectfully remember all of them.

I realize some people don't relate to this day, and some just want to forget it, but to respect the memories of those who perished--through no fault of their own--seems only human and decent.

It is conceivable that some type of tragedy will strike each and every person's life in some way--a job loss--an illness--the death of a friend or family member--an accident--financial problems, etc., etc., and hopefully, on that day, they too will find someone who cares.

Submitted by carli on September 11, 2011 - 3:43pm.

As someone who lived in Manhattan for many years, witnessed 9/11, lost several dear friends and actually came to SD partly to escape the constant nagging feeling that we'd forever be living in fear and paranoia of another event like that, I see both sides. I think that the media coverage can feel like hype, causing all the special personal details of each person lost (and all those who died or were forever changed in the tragic wars that followed) to be brushed over and forgotten. And then there's also the (valid) criticism about what's the big deal, why not focus as much attention on, for example, those who've died from the famine in Somalia or countless other tragedies or wars?

But for me, after I try to take my personal experience out of the equation, I think the reason it's such a significant event and one that our country can't help but obsess over every year around the anniversary, is that it was the dividing line between a time of blissful ignorance and a real loss of innocence. And I think for most, the fact that this even happened is still a shock and almost surreal, as if, 10 years later, we're still trying to process it. Who the hell ever thought that people would fly airplanes into buildings to kill people, and not just any people, but U.S. citizens?! Crazy.

Personally and very selfishly, I'd be much more comfortable not dredging up the intense sorrow I feel every year thinking about that day and those that closely followed, but on the other hand, I think it's inevitable and probably necessary.

Submitted by earlyretirement on September 11, 2011 - 5:22pm.

carli wrote:
As someone who lived in Manhattan for many years, witnessed 9/11, lost several dear friends and actually came to SD partly to escape the constant nagging feeling that we'd forever be living in fear and paranoia of another event like that, I see both sides. I think that the media coverage can feel like hype, causing all the special personal details of each person lost (and all those who died or were forever changed in the tragic wars that followed) to be brushed over and forgotten. And then there's also the (valid) criticism about what's the big deal, why not focus as much attention on, for example, those who've died from the famine in Somalia or countless other tragedies or wars?

But for me, after I try to take my personal experience out of the equation, I think the reason it's such a significant event and one that our country can't help but obsess over every year around the anniversary, is that it was the dividing line between a time of blissful ignorance and a real loss of innocence. And I think for most, the fact that this even happened is still a shock and almost surreal, as if, 10 years later, we're still trying to process it. Who the hell ever thought that people would fly airplanes into buildings to kill people, and not just any people, but U.S. citizens?! Crazy.

Personally and very selfishly, I'd be much more comfortable not dredging up the intense sorrow I feel every year thinking about that day and those that closely followed, but on the other hand, I think it's inevitable and probably necessary.

Carli,

This is an excellent post and I totally agree with it 100%. I lost several friends in the financial world on 9/11. It's hard to believe 10 years went by so quickly.

Submitted by briansd1 on September 11, 2011 - 5:26pm.

I do however plan to visit the 9/11 memorial in Manhattan in a couple weeks. Not to remember the event as much as for the art itself.

I can't relate to holding a grudge, the paranoia and the fear.

I think that a few death here and there is a fair price to pay for liberty. We don't need to live in state a siege just to prevent some deaths.

The two wars we went on the trillions we are spending are nowhere in proportion to the attacks of 9/11.

Yes, walter, there's value in letting go. The world wants to move on, but a tiny number of people want to hold us back.

Remembering is one thing, but so many of our policies are based around 9/11. That's crazy.

Jacarandoso, yeah, our leaders are beating us to death with it. Maybe the terrorists anticipated our reaction and our ruinous response to 9/11.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 11, 2011 - 5:31pm.

What do we mean when we say "we will always remember"?

Submitted by temeculaguy on September 11, 2011 - 6:57pm.

I just watched the opening of the Jets/Cowboys game and the New York Fire Department's band played amazing grace on the bagpipes. I'm doing all I can to not tell walter to take one day off or to insult brian for actually being what he hates, uncultured. Your mancards are dangerously close to being revoked today.

I take pause each year to remember this day, and today it is probably the most important because it's been long enough but not too long. This isn't about politics, wars, economics, racism or history. It's about appreciating the human spirit and the hero gene that is dormant in most people (but not all). I can't explain heroism to those who lack that element in their character. The people on flight 93 were not soldiers, firemen or cops, they didn't practice risking their lives and they didn't start their day knowing that this was the day they would have to make that decision. Earlier today, I went into my den and read the various awards and medals I received as a young man, including the one for saving another person's life while risking my own. My hero days are behind me, yet every time I get on a plane I run through the flight 93 scenario and ask myself if I still have what it takes to give my life for strangers today. I like to think it's still in me, but I make no mistake in thinking there aren't men and women out there far more brave than I, and I choose today as the day to quietly thank them, mourn them and appreciate them.

In a few months I will be making the trek to see the memorial and taking my kids with me, my son's last trip with me before college. Before he strikes out on his own, he gets last lesson on what it means to be a man and what it means to me to be an American.

I will not be there to admire the artwork.

Submitted by NotCranky on September 11, 2011 - 8:27pm.

A couple of balanced responses, or nearly so.
Criticizing the exploitative nationalistic over-remembrance ceremonies does not mean someone isn't sympathetic to the actual victims or their loved ones left behind. One can still be appreciative of the immense bravery, and to some extent believe, they would do the same regardless of how they view Sept. 11th.

If you all care so much why don't you go tear down Barona's billboards, the ones upon which they are using twin towers catastrophe and massive amounts or red white and blue to enhance patronage of their gambling facilities. Why not slam some realtor or car salesmen down, for doing it....Maybe it's not a big deal because they are just doing what everyone else from the NFL to the Army recruiting department is doing.

I guess, I just don't agree with some people on what respect for the dead and living means.

Submitted by moneymaker on September 11, 2011 - 8:50pm.

temeculaguy wrote:
I just watched the opening of the Jets/Cowboys game and the New York Fire Department's band played amazing grace on the bagpipes. I'm doing all I can to not tell walter to take one day off or to insult brian for actually being what he hates, uncultured. Your mancards are dangerously close to being revoked today.

I take pause each year to remember this day, and today it is probably the most important because it's been long enough but not too long. This isn't about politics, wars, economics, racism or history. It's about appreciating the human spirit and the hero gene that is dormant in most people (but not all). I can't explain heroism to those who lack that element in their character. The people on flight 93 were not soldiers, firemen or cops, they didn't practice risking their lives and they didn't start their day knowing that this was the day they would have to make that decision. Earlier today, I went into my den and read the various awards and medals I received as a young man, including the one for saving another person's life while risking my own. My hero days are behind me, yet every time I get on a plane I run through the flight 93 scenario and ask myself if I still have what it takes to GIVE MY LIFE for strangers today. I like to think it's still in me, but I make no mistake in thinking there aren't men and women out there far more brave than I, and I choose today as the day to quietly thank them, mourn them and appreciate them.

In a few months I will be making the trek to see the memorial and taking my kids with me, my son's last trip with me before college. Before he strikes out on his own, he gets last lesson on what it means to be a man and what it means to me to be an American.

I will not be there to admire the artwork.

You don't have to "give your life". That is what terrorists do when they blow themselves up. Risking your life is different from giving it. Why does our culture (or the world for that matter)have such a fascination with martyrdom?

Submitted by njtosd on September 11, 2011 - 9:12pm.

briansd1 wrote:

I think that a few death here and there is a fair price to pay for liberty. We don't need to live in state a siege just to prevent some deaths.

OK. You've proved it. You're absolutely clueless.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 11, 2011 - 9:13pm.

Hate crimes against Muslims were relatively minimal pre 9/11. Now they constitute 10 percent of all hate crimes while Muslims are one percent of the population.

I don't see 9/11 as a celebration of heroism. But I don't have a tv. Maybe I'm missing the point.

All I can remember is it's use for anti heroism--fear mongering--terror alerts--senseless hypervigilance--the "patriot" act.. And the herding of americans to docilely surrender civil liberties with the understanding that we must trust the government ---leading inexorably to wars with no reason with no end in sight as vengeance for perceived wrongs.

That's not heroism and if it is, I voluntarily surrender mh mancard because I don't want it. I'd rather be womanly I guess and oppose war, as women generally do throughout history.

Bravery and selflessness and national cohesiveness just don't seem essential to

Submitted by SD Realtor on September 11, 2011 - 9:22pm.

Threadkiller I think that the point is that there are many people indeed who gave their life up. Ultimately the outcomes were already determined however at the that critical moment, they made a decision that in your eyes may not have been "giving" their lives, but substantially increased the risk of their death....if that suits you better.

I am sure that many on flight 93 did not want to participate in thwarting the attack because they had hope that this was a kidnapping and that the plane would indeed land. Even so there were those that more then likely knew they would perish, but were either to numb, or simply did not have it in them, essentially they gave up. They may have even realized more people would die as the plane was to be used as a battering ram but they were hopeless and helpless. However some did not and it is likely that those few saved lives. If you don't want to call it giving a life then fine, call it raising the odds of death....or as you like to say, increasing the risk of death.

One of the specials on last night captured the bravery of two men in building one who worked for the port authority. Shortly after the impact they evacuated their own floors, then worked upward and evacuated other floors. The wife of one of them worked in the building as well and she knew her husband would not leave the building until he had everyone out of there. The thought of self preservation did not even enter his mind. I find this sense of valor quite uncommon around mankind. Many people in building 1 stayed put in their work areas as they did not know what to do for whatever reasons. One of them interviewed even said that he was just ready to give up.

I will readily admit I am fascinated by people like these two port authority figures. I am 100% fascinated by the people on flight 93 who chose to fight back. I am fascinated by jews in the ghetto in poland who fought the nazis and by the underground railroad. I am also fascinated by soldiers who throw themselves on grenades to save fellow soldiers. I am fascinated by human spirit at its very best and no you don't have to give up your life to display that spirit. However, to me, the point is that there is no regard for the consequences of their own lives at that moment. Inevitably I think about my family and kids a hell of alot more then I did before I had kids so I do not think I could take myself to that level. Would I help? Of course, would I have done what those port authority guys did? Probably not. I would have been saying holy crap this buildings gonna crumble I am getting the hell out of here. They did not. That fascinates me and chokes me up.

I have no fascination for martyrdom at all. Those people saving lives were not martyrs at all. They didn't do what they did for any cause, or any religion, or anything else like that.

Submitted by LAAFTERHOURS on September 11, 2011 - 9:26pm.

Lost 23 members of my university that day, suprised it wasnt more since we fed Quick & Reilly with graduates annually. Two of those lost worked for cantor fitzgerald, one a good friend. The other's father was one of the most viewed photos of the day. One was the Friar who was died as he was reading last rights to fallen firefighters.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 11, 2011 - 9:51pm.

one last stab at keeping my mancard; i love heroism as much as the next guy, have occasionally acted selflessly, but haven't had an opportunity to put it all on the line. All males with testosterone love tales of bravery and heroism and like to see themselves as heroes or potential heroes. and if that is what commemorating 9-11 was about, I'd have no problem with it.

But the essential narrative does not seem to be one of individual bravery and triumph.

i guess we are all free to celebrate it as we see it.

but to say it has nothing to do with war or race or religion? sorry...I'd have to ignore reality to really believe that. Or even economics--it's the twin towers the heart of capitalism.

here's a sick thought; people were ok with wall street in 01. what if the attack and the wall street deaths occurred arounda time when hatred toward wall streeters was running much higher?

Submitted by Aecetia on September 11, 2011 - 10:02pm.

temeculaguy wrote:
I just watched the opening of the Jets/Cowboys game and the New York Fire Department's band played amazing grace on the bagpipes. I'm doing all I can to not tell walter to take one day off or to insult brian for actually being what he hates, uncultured. Your mancards are dangerously close to being revoked today.

I take pause each year to remember this day, and today it is probably the most important because it's been long enough but not too long. This isn't about politics, wars, economics, racism or history. It's about appreciating the human spirit and the hero gene that is dormant in most people (but not all). I can't explain heroism to those who lack that element in their character. The people on flight 93 were not soldiers, firemen or cops, they didn't practice risking their lives and they didn't start their day knowing that this was the day they would have to make that decision. Earlier today, I went into my den and read the various awards and medals I received as a young man, including the one for saving another person's life while risking my own. My hero days are behind me, yet every time I get on a plane I run through the flight 93 scenario and ask myself if I still have what it takes to give my life for strangers today. I like to think it's still in me, but I make no mistake in thinking there aren't men and women out there far more brave than I, and I choose today as the day to quietly thank them, mourn them and appreciate them.

In a few months I will be making the trek to see the memorial and taking my kids with me, my son's last trip with me before college. Before he strikes out on his own, he gets last lesson on what it means to be a man and what it means to me to be an American.

I will not be there to admire the artwork.

You are an awesome father. I am so proud of you. Your children will never forget this trip. Sounds like you are one of those "Real Americans" that Brian talks about.

Submitted by SD Realtor on September 11, 2011 - 10:10pm.

Oh come on TG... you're just buying into the hype man... All those stories were just made up so that the govt can instill a state of fear among all of us. It is all a political ploy... just forgot it all and everything will be all right.

Take him to see a football game instead... there are much better ways to spend a Sunday then looking at plaques of a bunch of dead people. Or better yet find a good anti Muslim rally because that is quite fashionable these days.

Come on man don't you get it?

Submitted by paramount on September 11, 2011 - 10:21pm.

Forgive as you have been forgiven.

Submitted by flyer on September 11, 2011 - 10:33pm.

Another personal story I wanted to add on this topic.

Our daughter was was in a Broadway play that year, and, as another poster mentioned, decided she wanted to leave NYC after the 9/11 experience.

As it turned out, she moved back to CA and got a great TV deal. Although she will never forget all of those lost on that terrible day, the decision to move actually gave her the life of her dreams, and she will always remember that as the turning point of her career.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 11, 2011 - 11:00pm.

guantanomo bay.

and yeah, a hell of a lot of anti-muslim sentiment.

Submitted by KIBU on September 11, 2011 - 11:33pm.

America is being defined more and more by 9/11. Got stuck with it, can't let go.

When it happened, i was sad and lots of feelings for the victims.

Well, 10 years already guys. The country can not get stuck with that dead guy Bin Laden for ever, even if the threats may still be there. Know the threats but move on and do something else productive or you just got stuck there crying baby mens of "never forget".

The media is a bunch of crying makers on this day. We are a bunch of crying heroes.

Definitely we should pause and remember the victims, the importance of the event....but immerse the whole country in this sadness as if it happened yesterday on all media and events are too much, in my humble opinion.

....unless you want this country to forever stuck with the BinLaden's legacy.

Well, but I respect your sadness on this anyway. Just want to voice my opinion.

Submitted by briansd1 on September 11, 2011 - 11:53pm.

KIBU wrote:
America is being defined more and more by 9/11. Got stuck with it, can't let go.

When it happened, i was sad and lots of feelings for the victims.

Well, 10 years already guys. The country can not get stuck with that dead guy Bin Laden for ever, even if the threats may still be there. Know the threats but move on and do something else productive or you just got stuck there crying baby mens of "never forget".

The media is a bunch of crying makers on this day. We are a bunch of crying heroes.

Definitely we should pause and remember the victims, the importance of the event....but immerse the whole country in this sadness as if it happened yesterday on all media and events are too much, in my humble opinion.

....unless you want this country to forever stuck with the BinLaden's legacy.

Well, but I respect your sadness on this anyway. Just want to voice my opinion.

That's pretty well said. Time to move on.

It's like a mother who lost her son. Then her life afterwards is defined by the event. How long can you mourn? It's one thing to mourn privately, but there's no need to drag the whole country into this.

Yeah, 10 years already. It's time to let go. We are bigger than that.

Submitted by Arraya on September 12, 2011 - 6:51am.

Well, I always here a recurring theme about "lessons" from 9/11.

What I learned is the humans are inherently compassionate and that compassion transcends boarders, ideologies, ethnicities and religions. And that is a beautiful thing.

However, I also learned those higher emotions can be hijacked by less than noble forces, for less than noble reasons and perverted to a more primitive base emotion.

This semi-religious observance is irrevocably poisoned because of that. And we know that in our hearts.

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