The BIG Lie

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Submitted by uncomfortably numb on June 4, 2007 - 11:12am

Do you have the courage to stop telling the Big Lie? The Big Lie is all those not-so-little lies we Americans pass on to our children as, ‘the way it is.’

You get what you pay for.
New and improved.
Drive this and you’ll get the girl.
Wear this and you’ll get the guy.
Buy this and you’ll be happier.
Vote for me and things will be different.
We care about you.
You need it.
You deserve it!

…and the list goes on and on and on.

Do you have the courage to tell your children that you don’t always get what you pay for, that it’s probably not new nor improved, that buying something won’t get you the girl/guy, that it doesn’t matter who you vote for, that they couldn’t care less about you, that you don’t need it nor deserve it?

Why is it that we all keep the Big Lie?

Submitted by FormerOwner on June 4, 2007 - 11:33am.

Our whole economy (and really our whole society) is based on continually increasing consumption of goods and services financed by debt. No major corporations or governments want to see an end to this because it would take away their power and wealth. So they mislead the public and keep pushing off the inevitable further and further into the future, making the eventual collapse that much worse. Most people are so distracted with idiotic stuff that they don't stop and think about what's really behind all of this mess.

Submitted by lostkitty on June 4, 2007 - 6:19pm.

I can't tell them the truth, because then I'll feel hypocritical for driving around in a nice car. (I thoroughly enjoy sliding into those heated leather seats in the dead of winter. YUMMY.)

And i would never ever tell them that their votes dont matter (even though it sure seemd that way the past two ridiculous presidential elections).

Submitted by cyphire on June 4, 2007 - 6:30pm.

LOL - it's true... But whats funny is that kids dont' really know when you are hypocritical. So my vote is to tell them what is right and then their opinions are formed properly before they realize that you don't always walk the walk!

So true...

Both former owner and lostkitty are right... We do buy way to much stuff and our whole economy is based on it continuing. I'm wondering if the true key to economic prosperity is to resist the urge to buy, only purchase what you can afford to IN CASH, and dedicate a percentage of everything you make to savings - for your whole life.

If I only saved a dollar out of every 10 I've made so far - wow what a concept! On the other hand - I love the heated seats also... My dad always spent 110% more than he made - it forced him to keep making more and more money. If I can take the good stuff from him and not the bad money management - the rest is history!

Submitted by lostkitty on June 4, 2007 - 7:05pm.

I agree. Kids dont even care about hypocrisy! Here in upstate NY - they are as happy as I am to slide their fannies into that luxurious heated leather!

I talk to my kids a lot about spending/politics/religion (especially religion - seems like the super-religious people like jg are multiplying like cockroaches in America).
However, I also want them to strive to make enough $$s for things which satisfy their needs... again, the heated seats!, good shoes, a comfortable home, foreign travel, etc....you know... the basics. Or at least what i consider to be the basics.

Submitted by LookoutBelow on June 4, 2007 - 8:35pm.

I have ALWAYS told my children what the REAL score was, as I saw it....it netted me some pretty hard feelings in the past. I think they still kind of resent my thinking in a way. lam certain they think I'm a little weird, but I ALSO see the lights coming on behind their eyes, when one of my speculations comes to pass ......So theyre really not 100% sure if Iam  Clairvoyant or a clown.

I am not being hypocritical, I drive a nice car and the kids seem to like it too....but I tell them, it could be ONLY TEMPORARY, I could go back to a 1972 Vega tomorrow if need be, and I really could. lam enjoying a little indulgence right now, thats all, I don't owe anything so its not a matter of spending the milk money on my little indulgence.

If it ended tomorrow, I enjoyed the ride, Iam glad I got to do what I did. I wont be happy about it ending, but I got to see the other side of work and job reliance. 

lam comfortable now and will hopefully spend the rest of my life being comfortable financially....HOWEVER.....and thats a BIG however...You can never accurately predict 100% of the time whats going to happen, personally, nationally or worldly....So enjoy the ride, and be as prepared as you can, knowing all the while you cannot think of or be prepared for everything. Keep your eyes open.

Submitted by La Jolla Renter on June 4, 2007 - 8:56pm.

Is it okay that I have heat and a/c in the leather seats as long as I paid cash and have zero debt?

Submitted by Coronita on June 4, 2007 - 10:43pm.

A small story...When I was a kid, my dad wanted to get me a BMW bike. So he asked what I wanted. Not knowing any better and knowing my parents were very conservative in spending, I thought what the heck, get me the $60 Team Murray bike from Kmart. Brought it to school the next day, and for the rest of the two years had to endure just about every single ridicule imaginable from every other stupid kid, because their parents had bought them $250+ BMX bikes. Personally, I didn't understand what the big deal with. A bike for all purposes took me from point A to B after school, and none of the other kids ever raced. But it was hell for me. Never told my parents about it, because I didn't want them to feel bad, but I felt pretty crappy about it.... Until I got older and realized that my parents basically gave me food, shelter, the opportunity to attend a great college, and everything else I needed to succeed. To this day, my dad still doesn't understand why I won't throw away that red bike that's hanging in his garage.

The issue is that American kids are mean and stupid. It becomes a popularity/fad contest, and their parents feed into this culture buy spending unnecessarily on trendy things. The entire comparing to the Jones down the street happens when we're kids. And it gets more ridiculous as we progress. Can you imagine a 5th grade teacher telling students to make sure to turn off all cell phones before class starts? That's just ridiculous. I see so many parents with their kids feeding into the trendy thing. And I take a look at them, and I can't imagine they have the income that can sustain this.

Now in my 30ies, with a decent career and where money isn't really a probably for most things (except possibly a McMansion in La Jolla shores), I guess I have my parents to thank for the fact that I'm so conservative in spending. And thankfully my spouse is exactly like me. But living in CV doesn't help because while I really don't want to be like so many other CV folks, I really don't want my kid to grow up with esteem issues that may happen if I don't at least partly play the game. So, I'm going to have to figure out this one.

As far as people that are financing their way to ruins. Well, they really won't get much sympathy from me. Folks like that already gave me enough grief when I was a kid. And I frankly won't have a problem taking their assets away from them if they're reckless and irresponsible.

Submitted by Coronita on June 4, 2007 - 10:46pm.

Is it okay that I have heat and a/c in the leather seats as long as I paid cash and have zero debt?

 

Sure, as long as you don't come back and complain that you can't afford a house. 

Submitted by Coronita on June 4, 2007 - 11:12pm.

Work hard and you'll get ahead Let's even assume you are doing that for a Great American Corporation, are nice to people you work with, and don't sabotage your career in any obvious way. Even adding those extras to working hard does anyone believe it is a passport to career success? I'm reasonably successful, and I've been told by many I work harder than average, am more efficient, and implement high standards in my work. Blah blah blah. That's not why I've achieved the success I have. I spent the first few years of my careers watching why people get promoted in Corporate America, and how each story contrasted strongly with the ethical “lesson” of Work hard and you'll get ahead People get ahead because they work hard AND - more importantly - they know how to work the system, politically. Many get ahead by simply working the system, and they don't find that working hard is even a prerequisite. Anyone agree about my observations?

 

 The management euphenism for this is called "working smarter".What folks need to learn is the "working smarter" has a double meaning. It often means, "find others to do the grunt work for you".

Submitted by drunkle on June 4, 2007 - 11:32pm.

"People get ahead because they work hard AND - more importantly - they know how to work the system, politically. Many get ahead by simply working the system, and they don't find that working hard is even a prerequisite.

Anyone agree about my observations?"

i think that may be an observation of "modern" western/american corporate life. i dont think eastern corps work that way...

small businesses have no politics to work. you have to work hard in a small business.

big business is not in the business of working hard or innovating. they're in the business of pushing pencils. innovation comes from the small businesses, from hard working and intelligent people who ultimately benefit the masses.

hard work does pay. corporate america is not the standard of measure of a man.

and there's nothing wrong with selling out. you paid your dues, you earned your pay. let the corporate robots take over and do the grunt work.

Submitted by lostkitty on June 5, 2007 - 3:56am.

fatty boom-boom,

You wrote: "But living in CV doesn't help because while I really don't want to be like so many other CV folks, I really don't want my kid to grow up with esteem issues that may happen if I don't at least partly play the game. So, I'm going to have to figure out this one."

... and i couldnt agree more. I grew up right there in that area, went to TPHS. It was actually pretty difficult when most kids had cars (brand new or drove their parents BMWs and even a Maserati) at 16, had Rolex watches, went "shopping" for fun and spent hundreds and hundreds of $$ while I stood by feeling completely weak and passive (I didnt know I was learning an excellent lesson), etc. My brother lives there now and is frugal, his daughter suffers and struggles with his 'rules' about spending.

I was so immature that i thought the reason we didnt have money was because my mother didnt work hard enough. I seriously resented her for it. She was single with FIVE children. Three in college at the time I remember thinking this way (did I already mention how immature I was???).

Anyway, this exact issue is another of the BIG REASONS we decided to pack up and leave San Diego in '02, at least for the school months of the year. The materialistic atmosphere was just getting worse and worse. Happily, it is not an issue here.

Submitted by PD on June 5, 2007 - 6:27am.

Lies are everywhere. Here's a good one about how religion helped Hillary get over Bill and Monica.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070605/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_religion;_ylt=AiWKJiPsDkCsqIdcwlf0FULMWM0F

"I'm not sure I would have gotten through it without my faith," she said in response to a question about how she dealt with the infidelity.

What she doesn't explain here is that her "faith" wasn't in God but in Bill's ability to help her get into the Senate (and possibly further).

Bill and Hillary's religion is power. She stayed with him only because he was an asset to her political aspirations. Her polls must be showing that she needs to seem more religious.

Submitted by lostkitty on June 5, 2007 - 6:42am.

Oh so what PD. Big deal.

How could you possibly 'know' that she is lying anyway?

This is your own conjecture.

Now when I say that GWB is a retard, I can back it up with facts/proof.

Submitted by PD on June 5, 2007 - 6:46am.

Someone made a comment above about kids and cell phones. Both my children have cell phones, not because they want them but because I want them to have them. It is a safety/security/peace of mind issue. I can contact them whenever I want, no matter where they are. They can also call me if they are having a problem. When they are at a friend's house, I can call them directly and instantly know what they are doing and who else is over there playing.
When my son gets out of school and isn't sure if he is supposed to ride the bus or wait for me, he pulls out his phone and calls me right there. He has also ridden the bus when he was not supposed to (he was to go home with another kid). He ended up at the bus stop all alone and at a place where a very suspicious guy has been observed watching and following kids. He pulled out his phone and called me. I was there in 5 minutes. Problem solved.
Now when one of my children is supposed to go home with a friend, I can call and confirm that everything happened as it was supposed to happen.
I will never take my children's phone away as punishment. It allows me constant access to them. In fact, their next phones will have GPS trackers in them.
The world is a different place than when we were kids. Parents need to be vigilant. They also need to give their children all available tools to help them stay safe.

Submitted by PD on June 5, 2007 - 6:57am.

Lostkitty, do you really think she hits her knees every night before she goes to bed? This story is at the top of the news on Yahoo. It is clearly propaganda.
Believe it if you want.
As for going after Bush, have at it! I’m not so sycophantic that I will defend lies. All politicians lie. However, this is not an admission that you and I will agree on which things were lies.

Submitted by lostkitty on June 5, 2007 - 7:36am.

"Believe it if you want."

Who says I believe it or dont believe it?

My point is that i dont care if her knees hit the floor every night for prayer. What difference does it make? Why get all excited about it being at the top of Yahoo news?

Truth is - they probably put it on top there because of the topic of "infidelity". This word is likely on a "high priority" list for news articles as it increases hits to their site.

BTW - I agree with you about the cell phones! : )

Submitted by cyphire on June 5, 2007 - 8:37am.

LostKitty - It's too bad you moved - you sound really cool - Upstate NY's gain is our loss. I used to live in Upstate NY and trust me, they don't appreciate you!

I also don't care if Hillary prays or not. Personally a politicians stature in my eyes goes down each time they announce how important their faith is to them a)Because I don't care b)because power is their faith (as PD stated) c)because they are probably lying to get elected.

That being said I keep vacillating about the lying - I think if a candidate was truthful they wouldn't get elected and I'm hoping that they are playing the game so they can get elected and take down the bad guys. On the other hand Hillary and gang have somewhat become luke-warm republicans.

In Europe if a candidate ever proclaimed his/her faith to the media they wouldn't be elected dog catcher. Europe has decided that faith is a personal matter and not part of politics and that any politician who panders to get elected is just that... a panderer.

Imagine if the media didn't publish and promote articles on haircuts, candidate's dogs, infidelity, church affiliations, cookie making, and all the other critical issues about our leaders and potential leaders - and gave all the attention by priority to actual issues and political positions?

The very fact that a moron like GW could get elected a second time (even by fraud) makes me weep for this country. I mean he is literally an idiot. People get the form of government they deserve. And unfortunately we are getting what we deserve right now.

Don't hate Hillary for praying - as lost kitty says who cares? Don't vote republican even if your vote makes the baby Jesus cry. Don't be a hater. But fight the people who use hatred and fear to manipulate you (GW and his evil minions (Chaney, Rove, Rice, et. al)

Submitted by CardiffBaseball on June 5, 2007 - 8:52am.

I bought my 6th grader (and wife) some pretty cool prepaid phones (Ampd Mobile - Hollywood), and each one tends to cost me about $10 a month, possibly as much as $15. It's come in handy at times for staying on top of where he is, etc.

So the difference is I won't get the unlimited calling and text option like some of the kids have. So he gets to flirt with having a luxury item, but it's throttled back, and he pays for the time, so he tends to tell his friends not send Text messages about dumb things. (he gets an allowance and made a few hundred umpiring baseball games).

Submitted by Coronita on June 5, 2007 - 8:56am.

Someone made a comment above about kids and cell phones. Both my children have cell phones, not because they want them but because I want them to have them. It is a safety/security/peace of mind issue. I can contact them whenever I want, no matter where they are. They can also call me if they are having a problem. When they are at a friend's house, I can call them directly and instantly know what they are doing and who else is over there playing. When my son gets out of school and isn't sure if he is supposed to ride the bus or wait for me, he pulls out his phone and calls me right there. He has also ridden the bus when he was not supposed to (he was to go home with another kid). He ended up at the bus stop all alone and at a place where a very suspicious guy has been observed watching and following kids. He pulled out his phone and called me. I was there in 5 minutes. Problem solved. Now when one of my children is supposed to go home with a friend, I can call and confirm that everything happened as it was supposed to happen. I will never take my children's phone away as punishment. It allows me constant access to them. In fact, their next phones will have GPS trackers in them. The world is a different place than when we were kids. Parents need to be vigilant. They also need to give their children all available tools to help them stay safe.

 

I guess the thing i have with this is that we never needed them before. Why do we need them more so now? I guess one could argue it's a much more dangerous place. But if your someone is going to nab your kid, the gps in the cell phone isn't going to help. Now, if you actually want to buy a gps device that's embeddable in a shoe,clothes, etc, that seems to be a more plausible safety device. But the cell phone thing imho just gives parents a false sense of security.

Submitted by Coronita on June 5, 2007 - 9:03am.

fatty boom-boom, You wrote: "But living in CV doesn't help because while I really don't want to be like so many other CV folks, I really don't want my kid to grow up with esteem issues that may happen if I don't at least partly play the game. So, I'm going to have to figure out this one." ... and i couldnt agree more. I grew up right there in that area, went to TPHS. It was actually pretty difficult when most kids had cars (brand new or drove their parents BMWs and even a Maserati) at 16, had Rolex watches, went "shopping" for fun and spent hundreds and hundreds of $$ while I stood by feeling completely weak and passive (I didnt know I was learning an excellent lesson), etc. My brother lives there now and is frugal, his daughter suffers and struggles with his 'rules' about spending. I was so immature that i thought the reason we didnt have money was because my mother didnt work hard enough. I seriously resented her for it. She was single with FIVE children. Three in college at the time I remember thinking this way (did I already mention how immature I was???). Anyway, this exact issue is another of the BIG REASONS we decided to pack up and leave San Diego in '02, at least for the school months of the year. The materialistic atmosphere was just getting worse and worse. Happily, it is not an issue here.

 

Unfortunately, i think the issues are pretty much going to be everywhere. In NY, I believe your got the Hampton folks which are worse imho. You probably won't see them in upstate though.

 

Submitted by PerryChase on June 5, 2007 - 9:37am.

My European friends think that we're nutcases with flags on our front porches, God Bless after every speech, and my-child-is-an-outstanding-student bumper stickers.

We have single issue personalities so we are more malleable sheep for the powers that be. We don't think much about life (that's how God made it so that's the way it is) but the advantage of that is that we're not distracted from working so we're richer and have more stuff to consume. Is it better to be dumb, rich and happy? Or intellectual, poor and miserable? Isn't it all a state of mind anyway?

Submitted by FormerSanDiegan on June 5, 2007 - 10:03am.

Is it better to be dumb, rich and happy? Or intellectual, poor and miserable?

I don't know about you, but I'd rather be happy than miserable. If the other things must go along with, so be it.

Submitted by PD on June 5, 2007 - 10:07am.

Dumb people rarely get rich.

Submitted by smfj on June 5, 2007 - 10:19am.

Unfortunately, i think the issues are pretty much going to be everywhere.

I agree that the issues are everywhere, it's just the extent that's different. I'm in Charlotte, NC after 6 years in NYC/SD (grew up in smaller NC city), and yeah, it's different here. I hear people talk about how materialistic people are here, and I want to tell them, yeah, go live in So Cal for a few years and let me know if you still feel that way.

However, I do think good parents always struggle with the backlash of placing restrictions on their children- whether it's not letting your kid have a cell phone or not letting your kid watch certain TV shows or what have you. I know I gave my parents grief about it. But, I hope that they feel it was worth it, because I certainly appreciate them for raising me the way that they did.

I really commend you parents that teach your kids about boundaries. They'll thank you one day when they're happy, healthy, financially-stable adults.

Submitted by lostkitty on June 5, 2007 - 10:39am.

cyphire-

I'm not gone for good, just for the school year. Had to go though. Husband was an airline pilot and they kept cutting pay. Wasnt pretty. He abandoned that career for one in titanium, so life is more normal now, and future bright.

This upstate way of living took a while to get used to, but now I love it and would not move back with children. The seasons give a rhythm to the years that you just dont get in San Diego.
Especially if you like to garden, which I do.

I teach music and love it when students come for their lessons during so many kinds of weather. Every season is different, and the drama outside the windows in front of where they/we stand and play is so moving. Inspirational! One day it is white with big fluffy falling snow, another sunny and the flowers are screamning out for attention, other days it turns suddenly dark and ominous and thunder cracks lightening flashes. And always, there are the colorful birds, bunnies, chipmunks, etc skittering around in view. It is actually quite exciting.

Trying to go running when the poplars are releasing their giant puff-ball things is not fun though. Especially if it is humid and they not only go up your nose and in your mouth, but also stick to any sweaty areas.

Submitted by PerryChase on June 5, 2007 - 11:52am.

lostkitty, my best buddy is a pilot so I know about the airline industry. He loves to fly more than anything and he doesn't have a family to support. He was a First Officer with a Major and now he's a Captain with a Minor and his pay is 1/3 what it used to be. He's going to interview with Emirates in Dubai. I think that living in Dubai and flying the European routes would be fun.

Submitted by PD on June 5, 2007 - 12:14pm.

It is really hard to make it as an airline pilot these days.

Submitted by lostkitty on June 5, 2007 - 2:23pm.

PD - Yes it is, but luckily he had gone to TPS as a Navy pilot and had other skills in his pocket. New job is interesting and challenging. Much better than driving a bus (in the sky) and leaving the family every few days. Pay is better too (thankfully).

Submitted by lostkitty on June 5, 2007 - 2:31pm.

Perry-

He was mainline too, so you know the deal then. Work rules got to be ridiculous, pay slashed and then slashed again at his airline to the tune of -44% in less than 2 years. YEEOWWCH! I was whining a lot. He wasnt happy. Bad situation all around.

Things are much better now, and he still gets to travel (going to Paris next week!).

We lost our flight "benefit", but who cares, i could almost never get all five of us on a flight seated together. My kids have fallen asleep on strangers all across this country and over the Pacific a few times...

Yes, the airline gig is no longer what it used to be...

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