Terrorism

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Submitted by Zeitgeist on November 9, 2009 - 4:54pm

Wake up America. You could be next. Why won't the media call a terrorist a terrorist. Why do they make him a victim? So was Timothy James McVeigh a victim? He was in the Army. Did we misunderstand him, too? I bet he had post traumatic stress. We sure executed his a$$ fast. Why the double standard? Maybe one of you Libs can 'splain this thing to me.

"On Thursday afternoon, a radicalized Muslim US Army officer shouting "Allahu Akbar!" committed the worst act of terror on American soil since 9/11. And no one wants to call it an act of terror or associate it with Islam."

"What cowards we are. Political correctness killed those patriotic Americans at Ft. Hood as surely as the Islamist gunman did. And the media treat it like a case of non-denominational shoplifting."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/ope...

Submitted by afx114 on November 9, 2009 - 5:15pm.

Are you implying that Hasan won't be executed? He's in Texas for crying out loud. He'll get his.

Submitted by blahblahblah on November 9, 2009 - 5:18pm.

We sure executed his a$$ fast.

Actually it took a little more than 6 years. He was executed in 2001.

Submitted by Eugene on November 9, 2009 - 5:29pm.

Is there a line between a nut case and a terrorist?

Did anyone call the guy who shot up Virginia Tech a terrorist? After all, he killed more people than the guy at Fort Hood.

Is it automatically an act of terror whenever a Muslim kills someone on U.S. soil?

Submitted by briansd1 on November 9, 2009 - 5:42pm.

Well said, Eugene.

That's why the military is circumspect about this. They need to make sure they have all the facts first. There is no need to speculate and fuel the fire.

The military cannot afford a backlash against Muslims within its own ranks. It needs Muslim servicemen to translate and advise in the two wars.

It's only matter of time before a White Christian man goes berserk and shoots on a military base. Shootings happened at schools, post office, the work place, etc... That just part of life with guns.

Don't blame Obama, there are plenty of Republicans in the military and that's their "baby" .

Submitted by Aecetia on November 9, 2009 - 5:45pm.

I will be surprised if he is legally executed.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 9, 2009 - 5:51pm.

Eugene wrote:
Is there a line between a nut case and a terrorist?

Did anyone call the guy who shot up Virginia Tech a terrorist? After all, he killed more people than the guy at Fort Hood.

Is it automatically an act of terror whenever a Muslim kills someone on U.S. soil?

Eugene: When the shooter in question was attempting contact with al-Qaeda, had advocated and agitated for Muslims the world over to fight the "aggressors" (read Americans) and is screaming "Allahu Akbar" as he shoots defenseless US soldiers; yeah, I'm going to go with him being a terrorist.

The VT shooter was a mentally disturbed young man.

Very big difference and one that should be immediately obvious to anyone with the requisite capacity to reason. Unbelievable.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 9, 2009 - 5:53pm.

Aecetia wrote:
I will be surprised if he is legally executed.

Aecetia: Give him to me. I'd be more than happy to put the million bucks Uncle Sugar sunk into training my happy ass to good use.

It would take him about three days to die, but he'd have plenty of time to commune with Allah beforehand.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 9, 2009 - 5:56pm.

briansd1 wrote:
Don't blame Obama, there are plenty of Republicans in the military and that's their "baby" .

Obama is Commander-in-Chief of all US armed forces, genius.

This is totally "his" baby. These are his people.

Shelve your moronic partisan politics for a second (if you're able) and realize what truly happened here and that the dead not only represent the truly best among us, they fight and die for your rights and freedom.

What a tool.

Submitted by Eugene on November 9, 2009 - 6:27pm.

Allan from Fallbrook wrote:

Eugene: When the shooter in question was attempting contact with al-Qaeda, had advocated and agitated for Muslims the world over to fight the "aggressors" (read Americans) and is screaming "Allahu Akbar" as he shoots defenseless US soldiers; yeah, I'm going to go with him being a terrorist.

What does it mean, "was attempting contact with al-Qaeda"? If I were an al-Qaeda sleeper agent, technically, you'd be attempting contact with al-Qaeda right now. As far as we know, he was not actually IN contact with any real terrorists, he was not operating as part of a terror cell.

Attacker's religion aside, this incident has as many similarities to Virginia Tech or Columbine as to Oklahoma City. Whether he was really a terrorist or a nut case, that's for psychiatrists to decide.

Submitted by Hatfield on November 9, 2009 - 6:32pm.

> Shelve your moronic partisan politics for a second

Hello, pot? This is kettle!

Submitted by blahblahblah on November 9, 2009 - 6:48pm.

It is worth nothing (although he may very well be guilty) that all of the early reports of this tragedy indicated multiple shooters, multiple suspects and that this guy is one of them. Also I hate to have to say this, but this is the USA. People are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law here. I remember 1995 when everyone was immediately blaming the Aye-rabs and it turned out to be McVeigh.

As an aside, I find it hard to believe that a psychologist was able to shoot 43 people on an Army base full of trained soldiers before being taken down. My suspicion is that there were multiple shooters and that this guy may have been one of them. They may be keeping the identities of the other suspects secret for security reasons.

Submitted by JerseyGrl on November 9, 2009 - 7:06pm.

Fort Hood is located in Killeen, Texas, where one of the deadliest rampage-shootings in American history took place in 1991, when an unemployed ex-Navy enlistee, George Hennard Jr., crashed his pickup into a popular cafeteria, pulled out two handguns (Hasan also used two handguns), and killed 23 people before taking his own life.

The day before the massacre, Hennard was eating a hamburger in a local restaurant watching the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings and, according to the manager, "When an interview with Anita Hill came on, he just went off. He started screaming, ‘You dumb bitch! You bastards opened the door for all the women!' "

Submitted by harvey on November 9, 2009 - 7:09pm.

He's a criminal, but not a terrorist.

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/web...

The calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear.

#1: He targeted the military, not civilians. If he was Al-Qaueda (and I suspect he was a just a wannabe), he would could be labeled a "spy" but not a terrorist.

#2: Although one could argue that his actions were "calculated ... in order to to attain goals," I think that's a bit of a stretch. He really didn't have a plan. In order to "intimidate" or "instill fear" one needs to have the capacity to commit more violence.

This guy just wanted to go out in a rage against those whom he believed tormented him. Pretty much the same as the VT shooter (I hope they both burn in hell.)

Now lets get on to executing him.

Submitted by garysears on November 9, 2009 - 7:17pm.

A few random thought about this event...

I find it totally believable that one man could shoot that many people on a military base. I work on one. No one is armed except for base police. Seriously, any serviceman could cause a similar amount of damage tomorrow, on any San Diego area military base. The base security is focused on external threats more than internal and once you have gained access to base (ID and vehicle pass) there is no special security or physical barrier stopping anyone from doing something similar.

On a base the size of Fort Hood it could take a long time for word to get to the police and for them to respond. All accounts have the shooting going on for 3-5 minutes at least. That is plenty of time to cause that many victims. You had people trapped in a crowded building with no ability to defend themselves. Combat trained or not, an unarmed person has no chance against a shooter except to flee.

I don't see what the harm is in calling a spade a spade. I think the administration is hesitant to call this terrorism to try and distance itself from the previous administration where absolutely everything was all about the War on Terror. Even if this guy turns out to be a terrorist sympathizer and not an actual recruited cell member, there is no practical difference.

This will be a military trial since it occurred by a military member on a military installation. Word is the last military death sentence carried out was in 1961, despite numerous inmates on death row. I think he'll get the sentence but we'll have to see if it is ever carried out.

Finally, I wish people would give the second police officer, Mark Todd, some credit as well. The details aren't clear in the MSM but it looks like he is the one who actually took the guy down and secured him. He likely saved the life of Sgt. Munley as well.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 9, 2009 - 7:21pm.

Pri: There are reports emerging that he actually did have a plan and either was in contact with al-Qaeda or attempting contact with al-Qaeda.

Following from CNN (lest I'm perceived as having a bias from the Leftists on the board):

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2009/1...

I also spoke with a former buddy of mine, who is still active RA and he indicates that there is a lot more being held back at present.

If the stated purpose of terrorism is to terrorize: Then, by definition, he's a terrorist.

And, I couldn't agree more about executing him. After extensively interrogating (not torturing) him, of course.

Submitted by briansd1 on November 9, 2009 - 8:17pm.

Allan from Fallbrook wrote:

Shelve your moronic partisan politics for a second

I only said not to blame Obama because the referenced article blames Obama.

My point was that this isn't a partisan issue.

Obama is being measured in his response just like the military is being circumspect. That response is very appropriate as the facts are still being investigated.

Obama doesn't directly control the investigation in Texas.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 9, 2009 - 9:13pm.

briansd1 wrote:
Allan from Fallbrook wrote:

Shelve your moronic partisan politics for a second

I only said not to blame Obama because the referenced article blames Obama.

My point was that this isn't a partisan issue.

Obama is being measured in his response just like the military is being circumspect. That response is very appropriate as the facts are still being investigated.

Obama doesn't directly control the investigation in Texas.

Brian: Agreed on all. To blame Obama for this is asinine, obviously.

I heard quite a few people take issue with his remarks following, with the main observation that they were passionless. Having not watched, I cannot comment, but to blame him adds insult to injury.

The Army is pushing strongly to bring more Arabic speakers into the fold and is taking more of a low-key approach as a result. Also, there is apparently a good deal more to this than meets the eye and I've heard from two good friends who are both still in, one a LTC in the Regular Army and one a MAJ in the Reserves.

Where Hasan parts company with McVeigh is in religious denomination only. If a "White Christian" were to undertake the same action (and wasn't McVeigh a "White Christian"), it would be terrorism as well.

Cheap partisanship and shrill rhetoric at this accomplish nothing.

Submitted by Arraya on November 9, 2009 - 9:32pm.

CONCHO wrote:
It is worth nothing (although he may very well be guilty) that all of the early reports of this tragedy indicated multiple shooters, multiple suspects and that this guy is one of them. Also I hate to have to say this, but this is the USA. People are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law here. I remember 1995 when everyone was immediately blaming the Aye-rabs and it turned out to be McVeigh.

As an aside, I find it hard to believe that a psychologist was able to shoot 43 people on an Army base full of trained soldiers before being taken down. My suspicion is that there were multiple shooters and that this guy may have been one of them. They may be keeping the identities of the other suspects secret for security reasons.

Yeah, it went from 3 shooters to 2 to 1 shooter. The governor of texas said there were three shooters with one dead and two in custody. Numerous agencies said there were three with one dead.

Two bloomberg articles stated it was him who was killed.

And this gem from CNN regarding accomplices.

The senior officer said he ducked into a nearby house for cover as 30 to 40 cars carrying MPs approached.
He said he saw a soldier in battle-dress uniform, his hands in the air. The MPs ordered him to lie on the ground and open his uniform, presumably to ensure he was not carrying explosives, the senior officer said.
He said an MP told him that authorities considered the man to be a suspect in the shootings after having overheard the man say he was with the shooter.
The man was surrounded for 25 to 30 minutes, until a convoy of vehicles arrived, led by a Ford Crown Victoria and carrying men in suits, and he was taken away, the senior officer said.

More to this story than meets the eye. Men in black come to pick up his accomplices. hmmmm

Submitted by Zeitgeist on November 9, 2009 - 9:32pm.

Allan,

Don't forget the pig fat. I guess that worked well in WWII...

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 9, 2009 - 9:44pm.

Arraya: I would opine that there is a good chance your "Men in Black" were Army CID (Criminal Investigations Division). On a post as large as Hood, there is going to be a fully staffed MP, Provost Marshal, JAG and CID force in place.

I have heard that there is more to this than meets the eye and from good sources. However, I don't think we're dealing with the NSA or CIA or some shadowy gubment faction (yet).

When I was at Bragg and MacDill, we were always armed and with loaded sidearms at a minimum. We were also trigger happy as all get out. This dude would've gotten a couple of shots off and then gotten lit up like a Christmas tree. Oh, sorry. Uh, like a Hanukkah menorah. Whoops! A whirling dervish?

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on November 9, 2009 - 9:46pm.

Zeitgeist wrote:
Allan,

Don't forget the pig fat. I guess that worked well in WWII...

Zeit: Pig fat? Are you thinking of the Sepoy Mutiny under the British? Where the Brits had the ammo packages sealed in pig fat?

Sorry, I hear pig fat and I think of "The Simpsons". Mmmmm, rendered pork fat.

Submitted by Arraya on November 9, 2009 - 9:50pm.

Allan from Fallbrook wrote:
Arraya: I would opine that there is a good chance your "Men in Black" were Army CID (Criminal Investigations Division). On a post as large as Hood, there is going to be a fully staffed MP, Provost Marshal, JAG and CID force in place.

I have heard that there is more to this than meets the eye and from good sources. However, I don't think we're dealing with the NSA or CIA or some shadowy gubment faction (yet).

When I was at Bragg and MacDill, we were always armed and with loaded sidearms at a minimum. We were also trigger happy as all get out. This dude would've gotten a couple of shots off and then gotten lit up like a Christmas tree. Oh, sorry. Uh, like a Hanukkah menorah. Whoops! A whirling dervish?

Yeah, he was take down by a civilian as well after getting, what, 100 rounds off.

My girlfriend works at walter reed and they have been ordered NOT to talk to the FBI about anything???

Submitted by Zeitgeist on November 9, 2009 - 9:50pm.

JERUSALEM -- Burying Palestinian suicide bombers with pig skin or pig blood could deter potential attackers, an Israeli official says.

Deputy Israeli police minister Gideon Esra made the suggestion in the Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot.

Submitted by Arraya on November 9, 2009 - 9:53pm.

Zeitgeist wrote:
JERUSALEM -- Burying Palestinian suicide bombers with pig skin or pig blood could deter potential attackers, an Israeli official says.

Deputy Israeli police minister Gideon Esra made the suggestion in the Israeli newspaper Yediot Aharonot.

Thats some twisted shit, ziet

How do you ward off IDF soldiers that come to palestinian homes and force them out at gun point so they can have their land because of divine right.

Submitted by surveyor on November 9, 2009 - 10:10pm.

terrorism

From the Koran (8:12) :

"Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."

As a devout muslim (as the Major Hasan was), this was his motivation, and was as per the instructions of Mohammad.

Submitted by waiting for bottom on November 9, 2009 - 10:29pm.

Eugene wrote:

Is it automatically an act of terror whenever a Muslim kills someone on U.S. soil?

YES!!! The sooner we quit trying to be PC with those psychos the better. Muslim=Terrorist, period.

Submitted by Arraya on November 9, 2009 - 11:38pm.

From ABC

Hasan was initially reported to have been killed but Lt. Gen. Robert W. Cone told a late-night news conference that the suspect was wounded and in custody. Cone declined to comment on Hasan’s medical condition was but said he is expected to live.
Hasan has not spoken to authorities, Cone said.
Two other soldiers were taken into custody but were later released.

Second Gunman In Custody At Army’s Fort Hood -Report

DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

A second gunman is in custody after a shooting at the Army’s Fort Hood in Texas in which at least seven people were killed and 12 wounded, reports KCEN-TV of Waco. The report comes about two hours after a first suspect was captured, shortly after gunfire broke out.
Authorities say the gunmen were dressed in fatigues, though it’s not confirmed whether they are military personnel. It’s also not known if the victims were military personnel or civilians.
The incident reportedly began at Fort Hood’s theater and then moved to the Soldier Readiness Processing Center, Killeen City Public Information Officer Hillary Shine told Fox News. A graduation ceremony was scheduled to take place Thursday.

Submitted by Arraya on November 10, 2009 - 12:03am.

http://www.foxsmallbusinesscenter.com/po...

U.S. intelligence officials on Monday denied that the intelligence community "sat" on valuable information about the alleged Fort Hood shooter before last week's massacre, after one lawmaker questioned whether agencies like the CIA could have done more to warn military and government officials.

Rep. Pete Hoekstra, the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, announced Monday that he's asked the heads of the FBI, NSA and CIA to "preserve" all documents and material connected to the attack. He said the administration has "critical information" that it is "refusing to release" to Congress and the public about the attack, and that lawmakers will want to "scrutinize" how intelligence officials handled information about the shooter before the attack.

Hoekstra's announcement came as ABC News reported that intelligence agencies knew for months that Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan was trying to contact people associated with Al Qaeda. The report said it was unclear whether the agencies informed the Army.,

So CIA knew this guy was a "terrorist" for months and did nothing? Man this story is falling apart at the seams. All that wiretapping and ease dropping is supposed to keep us safe. What happened here?

Of course, my information is that there was a firefight when an argument over refusing to deploy crossed over into a minor mutiny as in three people fighting back.

Since the US Government cannot allow the rest of the military to know there was a revolt in the rank and file, there was a quick decision made to blame the dead Muslim, only it turns out he wasn't dead, and in typical shoot-from-the-hip fashion the propaganda stories are not being well thought out.

See, the intelligence agencies can't have it both ways. They can't say they KNEW about him and let it happen but they also want the "terrorist" story over a mutiny story.

Submitted by Zeitgeist on November 10, 2009 - 7:26am.

There is definitely something more to the story and there are conflicting accounts of how the female civilian cop engaged Hasan. Is this another Private Jessica issue? I am not doubting her courage at all. I am just wondering if this is a distraction to change the focus of the media to someone other than Hasan and the plot. He did plan it and he was giving his belongings away. Both of these are consistent with a suicide.

Submitted by harvey on November 10, 2009 - 8:35am.

Allan from Fallbrook wrote:
Pri: There are reports emerging that he actually did have a plan and either was in contact with al-Qaeda or attempting contact with al-Qaeda.

If there was a plan, then it was pretty poorly coordinated and executed. If al-Qaeda really had someone on the "inside" in a position like his, one would think they would have planned to use him a little more effectively.

We will never know the truth, because many of the reports and interpretation of the facts will be skewed by agendas. Fighting "terrorism" is big business for big companies. Fighting the occasional nutjob or wannabe terrorist is not so profitable.

Quote:
If the stated purpose of terrorism is to terrorize: Then, by definition, he's a terrorist.

The stated purpose of terrorism is to terrorize civilians in order to influence them. Killing uniformed military is either murder or war, depending upon the context. I would label this incident the former.

This may seem like a semantic nitpick, but it's important. Terrorism is the targeting of cilvilians. We do a lot of stuff in Iraq and Afghanistan that scares the hell out of our enemies (by design), and that's not terrorism.

Quote:
And, I couldn't agree more about executing him. After extensively interrogating (not torturing) him, of course.

We interrogate him to learn if there is, in fact, more to know. We don't "interrogate" to punish or get revenge. If we are going to ignore the 8th Amendment, then why not throw out the 2nd as well? And I know you wouldn't like that.

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