Stonebridge-Toll Brothers

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Submitted by localguy on March 3, 2011 - 6:41am

Stonebridge-Toll Brothers. I noticed some activity last week on some of the vacant lots in the neighborhood. Toll Brothers is setting up shop. Checked their website, Building 4,000 sq ft homes, etc...

Submitted by recordsclerk on July 15, 2011 - 2:11pm.

I'm not seeing that much of a premium for single story homes in Stonebridge. I think as you get over 4500sqft there is a discount on price per sqft. Those usually are the 2 story homes. There has been a lot of talk about single story coastal homes having a huge premium. I would guess that the value of land has a lot to do with the premium since single story homes have larger footprints.
View lots have a premium, but not that much. I think 45K extra sounds about right for view lot. I think the smaller lots and/or deficient lots with huge slopes, power lines, backing up to Stonebridge Parkway have to be discounted from par pricing to sell. I think that's one of the reason you see Calabria selling for less.

Submitted by familyguy on July 15, 2011 - 4:03pm.

recordsclerk wrote:
I think that's one of the reason you see Calabria selling for less.

That, and they're packed into the lots like sardines.

Thanks for the heads up about the tb website having the floor plans. I REALLY like the one with the double staircase, very nice!

Submitted by recordsclerk on July 15, 2011 - 5:52pm.

I hope they model the floorplans with the double staircases. I would really like to see one of them built. I've only seen it once before at Ivy Gate in 4S Ranch.

Submitted by kcal09 on July 15, 2011 - 6:53pm.

The model with the double staircase does not look as impressive in reality as the foyer is very small. The picture is deceiving due to the wide angle lens used.

Submitted by ocrenter on July 15, 2011 - 11:11pm.

Looks like Tolls Bros is only offering 3 models at the Crosby. Purchased 29 lots at cost of $8.35 million, averaging $288k. Interesting they are not using the same strategy they are using at Stonebridge over at Crosby.

Submitted by ocrenter on July 15, 2011 - 11:18pm.

recordsclerk wrote:
There has been a lot of talk about single story coastal homes having a huge premium. I would guess that the value of land has a lot to do with the premium since single story homes have larger footprints.

during the peak view premiums and single level premiums were significantly higher compared to now. since most of the coast still have not dropped significantly, these premiums are therefore still quite above the much more logical premium demonstrated by Toll's pricing.

Submitted by sdrealtor on July 16, 2011 - 1:41am.

FWIW the single level premium tends to average around 15% so a 4000 1 story priced the same as a 4300 sq ft 2 story only has a 7.5% premium which definitely looks a little lower than we typically see.

Submitted by familyguy on July 16, 2011 - 8:05am.

recordsclerk wrote:
I hope they model the floorplans with the double staircases. I would really like to see one of them built. I've only seen it once before at Ivy Gate in 4S Ranch.

I walked past them this morning, it appears the second model in will be the one with the double staircase. So hopefully we'll be able to see it first hand soon.

Submitted by realdeal on July 18, 2011 - 7:16pm.

I saw the same models in OC area a few years ago, and Toll Brothers does an amazing job on their models - wait until you see them. As far as price per square foot - I don't think Serenity and certainly not Montoro can come close to what Toll Brothers has to offer in their homes. Just the look of their homes is high end, and this will draw that type of buyer into that neighborhood. It will be a great addition to the StoneBridge community for those that live there.

Submitted by realdeal on July 18, 2011 - 7:20pm.

We saw those as well and the saleswoman said that they were previously done by John Laing and Toll Brothers bought those lots and plans with the lots that had been pre-determined when Laing owned and before they went under. Same strategy is selling before models, 9 have been sold at Crosby with no model. I think Stonebridge will be a different buyer than those looking at Crosby - much higher mello roos and HOA dues there.

Submitted by kcal09 on July 18, 2011 - 7:36pm.

The Toll Brother lots offer definitely more in views and the homes appear to be of higher quality. We were very disappointed in the "Montoro" homes. Not only was the quality of the homes poor but also the lots down in the canyon with the steep slope in the back horrible. Interestingly, despite these drawbacks some buyers were still willing to shell out $800k!

Submitted by recordsclerk on July 19, 2011 - 10:56am.

Savvy,

Have you looked at this house:

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-100051901-14...

I think it's a great deal, better than anything new for the price. Just fell out of escrow.

Submitted by familyguy on July 19, 2011 - 7:33pm.

recordsclerk wrote:
Savvy,

Have you looked at this house:

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-100051901-14...

I think it's a great deal, better than anything new for the price. Just fell out of escrow.

Holy crap! If zillow is correct they paid 1.5 in 2006. I can't belive the asking price is under 900k. Something doesn't seem right here?

Submitted by DataAgent on July 19, 2011 - 7:58pm.

"Holy crap! If zillow is correct they paid 1.5 in 2006. I can't belive the asking price is under 900k. Something doesn't seem right here?"

It's probably just another short sale. The current owners haven't paid their property taxes in several years.

Submitted by familyguy on July 19, 2011 - 8:53pm.

In the case of buying a house, (short sale or otherwise)that has unpaid property taxes, does the new buyer have to pay the back taxes? Probably a rookie question, but I don't know?

If they haven't paid in a couple of years I would assume there's at least a 40k balance due to the state.

Submitted by kcal09 on July 19, 2011 - 8:27pm.

Notice of Default was recorded on 7/11/11. Default amount is $87k.
Purchase amount was indeed $1.5 million, I would estimate that the owner put in another $150-200k in upgrades and landscaping.

Submitted by ocrenter on July 19, 2011 - 8:41pm.

kcal09 wrote:
Notice of Default was recorded on 7/11/11. Default amount is $87k.
Purchase amount was indeed $1.5 million, I would estimate that the owner put in another $150-200k in upgrades and landscaping.

Looks like the house has been on the market for a whole year, presumed contingent most of the time. The buyer probably found something else and dropped them like a bad habit.

I do believe the buyer will likely have to end up paying the unpaid property tax.

Submitted by bearishgurl on July 20, 2011 - 11:11am.

ocrenter wrote:
. . . I do believe the buyer will likely have to end up paying the unpaid property tax.

And that tax will include exorbitant (unpaid) Mello-Roos.

Submitted by kcal09 on July 20, 2011 - 9:11pm.

If you can get this home for less than $1 million (incl. unpaid taxes and MR) it is still a great deal.

Submitted by bluehairdave on July 20, 2011 - 9:52pm.

This and all the other 'short sales' in that area have been for sale for eons, rejected and they will not be sold for anywhere near those prices.

I visited Toll VIP and the houses look very nice but the best lots with best views arent until the mid to late phases. Also, its going to run about 75k-125k more for something similar in Serenity. I.E. view lot sq ft and same upgrades. Due to incentives offered by Serenity. Serenity is def. trying to finish off their sales and making deals. The landscaping is very nice and they did a top notch job with the underground and sprinkler systems and concrete.

For someone in the 1 mil+ range Toll Bros. will be a prefered option. For the 900-920k range Serenity. They wont have anything built until after Jan 2012 and EVERYTHING is an upgrade at Toll Bros. whereas Serenity has decent standard items the are really dealing out incentives to do the flooring and bathrooms etc to the nines all within your regular purchase price.

Submitted by familyguy on July 21, 2011 - 8:38am.

bluehairdave wrote:
EVERYTHING is an upgrade at Toll Bros.

I remember thinking that same think about Shay Homes before I bought. I really liked the models but it felt like if I wanted toilets or stairs as opposed to a hole in the floor and a ladder, both were upgrades. I'm exaggerating of course, but you all get the point.

Submitted by kcal09 on July 21, 2011 - 12:52pm.

bluehairdave wrote:
This and all the other 'short sales' in that area have been for sale for eons, rejected and they will not be sold for anywhere near those prices.

I visited Toll VIP and the houses look very nice but the best lots with best views arent until the mid to late phases. Also, its going to run about 75k-125k more for something similar in Serenity. I.E. view lot sq ft and same upgrades. Due to incentives offered by Serenity. Serenity is def. trying to finish off their sales and making deals. The landscaping is very nice and they did a top notch job with the underground and sprinkler systems and concrete.

For someone in the 1 mil+ range Toll Bros. will be a prefered option. For the 900-920k range Serenity. They wont have anything built until after Jan 2012 and EVERYTHING is an upgrade at Toll Bros. whereas Serenity has decent standard items the are really dealing out incentives to do the flooring and bathrooms etc to the nines all within your regular purchase price.

One of my friends made an offer on a short sale at Stonebridge slightly higher than the asking price and never heard anything back.
The Toll Bros. homes are going to be significantly more expensive (per sqft)than Serenity or Montoro after all the upgrades. The base price looks attractive but that basically just to get the shell and very basic interior build out.

Submitted by familyguy on July 21, 2011 - 3:06pm.

Maybe just buying the basic home and upgrading it later is the way to go. More then likely you can get the built ins, flooring, baseboards, etc. much cheaper from a local business, and probably higher quality. Not to mention you don't have to mortgage the cost of said upgrades over a 30 year period.

To do it over again i would have definitley done minimum builder upgrades and purchased them later as I had the extra cash as opposed to having them lumped into my mortgage. Live and learn I suppose.

Does anyone else see the logic in this approach, or am I missing something?

Submitted by ocrenter on July 21, 2011 - 7:20pm.

familyguy wrote:
Maybe just buying the basic home and upgrading it later is the way to go. More then likely you can get the built ins, flooring, baseboards, etc. much cheaper from a local business, and probably higher quality. Not to mention you don't have to mortgage the cost of said upgrades over a 30 year period.

To do it over again i would have definitley done minimum builder upgrades and purchased them later as I had the extra cash as opposed to having them lumped into my mortgage. Live and learn I suppose.

Does anyone else see the logic in this approach, or am I missing something?

Absolutely. That's the way to go.

What exactly are we looking at when we say Tolls will be without any upgrades? Is it going to be base orange peel walls? 1 inch baseboards? No rain gutter? Ceramic tile kitchen counter?

Submitted by kcal09 on July 21, 2011 - 8:01pm.

I was told once by the home builder that many lenders require at least basic flooring before closing the loan. This means that you have to remove the basic flooring later on and replace it with upgraded materials. I asked them if I can ask my own hardwood company to install the floor if the lenders approves him. The builder agreed and gave me a credit for the flooring. We saved about $3k.
I would recommend installing the flooring before you move in to avoid the hassle of moving your furniture around.
As for the kitchen I saved about $5k by using my own company instead of the builder's.

Submitted by bluehairdave on July 21, 2011 - 11:40pm.

familyguy wrote:
Maybe just buying the basic home and upgrading it later is the way to go. More then likely you can get the built ins, flooring, baseboards, etc. much cheaper from a local business, and probably higher quality. Not to mention you don't have to mortgage the cost of said upgrades over a 30 year period.

To do it over again i would have definitley done minimum builder upgrades and purchased them later as I had the extra cash as opposed to having them lumped into my mortgage. Live and learn I suppose.

Does anyone else see the logic in this approach, or am I missing something?

This totally makes sense unless the builder is including them in your negotiated price like Serenity is doing. Its not adding to the cost of the house so you might as well use it. Toll Bros. on the other hand you would spend another 150k with them or you can fork out another 75k on your own AFTER you move in a have already placed a 200-240k Down payment. I looked at both and the Toll Bros is practically sight unseen with 2 models and is a good deal more expensive. Serenity is a very nice house and is plenty big for anyone. Win Win really for both but 100k+ is no small chump change and you get to live in a finished house.

Maybe in 2 years when the market is still depressed and Toll needs to move some houses they will also be giving away 75k in upgrades included in the negotiated price.

Submitted by kkun on July 22, 2011 - 12:16am.

Looking at the brochure at Toll Brothers sales office I thought they are including more stuffs than Serenity (w/o the upgrade fund). Toll Brother lists following as standard:

- 7" crown moulding
- 4" baseboards
- Stainless steel appliances
- Granaite countertop with full backsplash behind cooktop
- 12" X 12" ceramic tile flooring in kitchen and other areas

Is Toll Brother worse than Serenity and other builders in terms of what they include as "standard"?

Submitted by ocrenter on July 22, 2011 - 7:05am.

kkun wrote:
Looking at the brochure at Toll Brothers sales office I thought they are including more stuffs than Serenity (w/o the upgrade fund). Toll Brother lists following as standard:

- 7" crown moulding
- 4" baseboards
- Stainless steel appliances
- Granaite countertop with full backsplash behind cooktop
- 12" X 12" ceramic tile flooring in kitchen and other areas

Is Toll Brother worse than Serenity and other builders in terms of what they include as "standard"?

wow, that's very nice. They actually include crown molding? That's a new one. 4" baseboards, very nice.

I don't think any builders have ever offered crown molding as a standard feature before. Both of these definitely not at Montoro. As for the baseboards at Serenity, I'm not sure.

ask about the rain gutters, that's very important. Montoro again skipped on that. but it is quite an important feature that a lot of builders now include as standard.

sounds like Tolls is not as barebones as we thought.

Submitted by familyguy on July 22, 2011 - 7:19am.

Certainly doesn't...crown moulding is not something I ever saw as standard on any models I looked at over the years. Granite of some sort is prettymuch always standard in the kitchens at least...the choice of "standard" granite is usually the sticking point there as most of the ones that are included look like potted meat. I woner if they include granite throughout the home,or just the kitchen, leaving the bathrooms done with 4x4 ceramic daltile?

The 12x12 tile is also pretty common, but I think the stainless appliances might be something new as well.

Submitted by sdrealtor on July 22, 2011 - 9:33pm.

familyguy wrote:
recordsclerk wrote:
Savvy,

Have you looked at this house:

http://www.sdlookup.com/MLS-100051901-14...

I think it's a great deal, better than anything new for the price. Just fell out of escrow.

Holy crap! If zillow is correct they paid 1.5 in 2006. I can't belive the asking price is under 900k. Something doesn't seem right here?

Old Creek just went back under contract. I wonder what price and how much of those back taxes the buyer will end up paying. Any guesses?

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