Stonebridge-Toll Brothers

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Submitted by localguy on March 3, 2011 - 6:41am

Stonebridge-Toll Brothers. I noticed some activity last week on some of the vacant lots in the neighborhood. Toll Brothers is setting up shop. Checked their website, Building 4,000 sq ft homes, etc...

Submitted by ocrenter on March 3, 2011 - 7:38am.

Toll Brothers certainly has a reputation for building solid luxury homes. Looking at its other home offerings throughout SoCal, it looks like Toll is targeting the 900k price range. They'll probably have the starting price at $899,995 or something so they can say they are starting in the "high 800ks."

Given that Serenity from Brookfield has been able to sell at 900k to 1 million, Toll Bros should be able to do the same as well.

checking the property tax site, each lot is taxed at the assessed value of $358k. Assuming that's the Toll Bros purchase price, this should pencil out for them.

question is can they sell all 71 homes before the interest rate start rising.

Submitted by rcfe on March 3, 2011 - 10:30am.

Interesting. Another player in the Stonebridge market. Where are they building? The lot overlooking Montoro homes or the lot over Scripps preserve? Where can we find the floor plan? Serenity didn't lower their price much but they did offer a large incentive as much as $70k on some sites. The market will tell if Toll brothers are willing to do the same.

Submitted by localguy on March 3, 2011 - 12:18pm.

They are building on the lots over, east of, Montoro. You could end up with some decent views depending on the lot. There are still vacant lots east and west of Scripps Preserve, along with the gated View Point at the end of Stonebridge Parkway.
Localguy

Submitted by rcfe on March 3, 2011 - 12:34pm.

Thanks. Does the Scripps Preserve lots belong to Toll Brothers too or Cornerstone? Anyone knows? Those are premium lots with panoramic view and Cul-de-sac location. When are they gonna to start to build?

Submitted by kcal09 on March 3, 2011 - 1:34pm.

If they can price these homes for less than $1 million there will be a strong interest. However, there are still many distressed properties in Stonebridge and a patient buyer may be able to get a better deal on those homes (i.e. Sanctuary homes).

Submitted by localguy on March 3, 2011 - 1:50pm.

Scripps Preserve is complete. I'm sure when the economy tanked, all the builders took one step to the right and swapped lots. When they post their sign and bring in the sales trailer, that is when we find out.
Localguy

Submitted by ocrenter on March 3, 2011 - 5:57pm.

localguy wrote:
Scripps Preserve is complete. I'm sure when the economy tanked, all the builders took one step to the right and swapped lots. When they post their sign and bring in the sales trailer, that is when we find out.
Localguy

I don't recall Toll Bros being in SD at all during the peak years. Now per their website all of the sudden they have 4 developments in SD with 2 in Oside, 1 in Crosby, and 1 in Stonebridge. Certainly with their lot purchase price they should be able to overwhelm the competition.

for example, Montoro lots were bought during the peak at $550k. They just sold a 5000 sqft home for 880k, which means the builder probably got that 5000 sqft home up for less than 300k, or less than $60/sqft! what kind of @#%$%# home can you really be looking at with that type of construction cost?

on the other hand, Toll Bros would still be able to pull in $100k per home profit even if they spend $100/sqft building a 4500 sqft home and sell it for $900k. The construction quality should be significantly better than Montoro and be able to attract people away from Montoro.

Submitted by SD Realtor on March 3, 2011 - 6:18pm.

ocr will pull in more then that. Usually they will not undertake a project unless they can realize a profit above 25%.

Submitted by sdrealtor on March 3, 2011 - 6:38pm.

FYI, Toll Brothers built in Encinitas Ranch mostly in 2002 and 2003. I beleive some may have been in 2004 also.

Submitted by ocrenter on March 3, 2011 - 7:52pm.

sdrealtor wrote:
FYI, Toll Brothers built in Encinitas Ranch mostly in 2002 and 2003. I beleive some may have been in 2004 also.

so they probably purchased the land in 2001 or prior. and here they are buying land post-bubble. and bypassed on any land purchases at least in SD during the entire bubble peak. that's a pretty amazing track record!

Submitted by ocrenter on March 3, 2011 - 8:03pm.

SD Realtor wrote:
ocr will pull in more then that. Usually they will not undertake a project unless they can realize a profit above 25%.

that certainly make sense. so that would mean Toll Bros would have to get the smallest model (starting at 4000 sqft) up at cost of $325000 or $81/sqft if they want to be able to get the starting price at $900k. Is that doable on a more upscale home? I suppose we would have to see the quality of the models when they are ready.

probably can't apply the same 25% margin rule on Montoro or Serenity, those I think were simply survival strategies cooked up by their respective builders just to get rid of the lots without suffering from significant losses.

Submitted by nct on March 4, 2011 - 9:43am.

Hi ocrenter,
Have you checked tax record for the lots bought by Pulte in 4s ranch? Looks model homes there are almost ready.

Thanks!

Submitted by recordsclerk on March 4, 2011 - 12:38pm.

Do you guys know how many models they are going to have? The T-Brothers site shows a range 4000-4700.

Submitted by ocrenter on March 4, 2011 - 2:22pm.

nct wrote:
Hi ocrenter,
Have you checked tax record for the lots bought by Pulte in 4s ranch? Looks model homes there are almost ready.

Thanks!

I saw a bunch of lots appraised and taxed at 105k for California West, the builder for Monteluz and Andalusia. That seem quite low for these lots.

Can't find the Pulte lots. do you have the parcel numbers? In general 678-6xx-xx-xx tend to be 4S north side, didn't see any owned by Pulte.

Submitted by recordsclerk on May 7, 2011 - 8:50pm.

Recently released info from Toll Brothers:

Plan 1 – Santa Fe – single level – 4,010 sq ft - 4 BD/4.5 BA/3-car garage

Plan 2 – La Jolla – single level – 4,154 sq ft – 3 BD+Den or Opt 4 BD/3.5 BA/3-car garage/Optional Casita

Plan 3 – Coronado – two story – 4,298 sq ft – 5 BD+Den+Bonus Room/4.5 BA/3.5-car garage

Plan 4 – Balboa – two story – 4,358 sq ft – 4 BD+Den/4.5 BA/4-car garage/Optional Casita

Plan 5 – Pasadena – single level – 4,341 sq ft – 4 BD+Den+Bonus Room/3.5 BA/4-car garage

Plan 6 – San Clemente – two story – 4,397 sq ft – 5 BD+Den/5.5 BA/4-car garage/Optional Bonus Room

Plan 7 – Point Loma – two story – 4,700 sq ft – 5 BD+Den/5.5 BA/3-car garage/Optional Bonus Room

Plan 8 – Torrey Pines – two story – 4,984 sq ft – 5 BD+Den/5.5 BA/3-car garage/Optional Bonus Room

No floor plans yet.

Submitted by ocrenter on May 8, 2011 - 8:25am.

recordsclerk wrote:
Recently released info from Toll Brothers:

Plan 1 – Santa Fe – single level – 4,010 sq ft - 4 BD/4.5 BA/3-car garage

Plan 2 – La Jolla – single level – 4,154 sq ft – 3 BD+Den or Opt 4 BD/3.5 BA/3-car garage/Optional Casita

Plan 3 – Coronado – two story – 4,298 sq ft – 5 BD+Den+Bonus Room/4.5 BA/3.5-car garage

Plan 4 – Balboa – two story – 4,358 sq ft – 4 BD+Den/4.5 BA/4-car garage/Optional Casita

Plan 5 – Pasadena – single level – 4,341 sq ft – 4 BD+Den+Bonus Room/3.5 BA/4-car garage

Plan 6 – San Clemente – two story – 4,397 sq ft – 5 BD+Den/5.5 BA/4-car garage/Optional Bonus Room

Plan 7 – Point Loma – two story – 4,700 sq ft – 5 BD+Den/5.5 BA/3-car garage/Optional Bonus Room

Plan 8 – Torrey Pines – two story – 4,984 sq ft – 5 BD+Den/5.5 BA/3-car garage/Optional Bonus Room

No floor plans yet.

I've never ever seen 8 plans available for a single development before. that's pretty impressive.

Submitted by recordsclerk on June 10, 2011 - 11:04am.

Framing started for the first couple of homes.

Submitted by familyguy on June 28, 2011 - 12:41pm.

I see those first two homes are coming right along. I would assume those will be the models?

Submitted by ocrenter on June 28, 2011 - 1:08pm.

familyguy wrote:
I see those first two homes are coming right along. I would assume those will be the models?

I thought somebody said there's going to be 8 different models available. But they'll just have 2 model homes?

Submitted by desmond on June 28, 2011 - 1:54pm.

They are scaling back and only the Escondido and Temecula will be built as models, times are tuff.

Submitted by kcal09 on June 28, 2011 - 9:19pm.

Although the real estate market is very depressed there will be interest in these homes as there are almost no new homes of this size available in SD county and many buyers (upper middle class families) are willing to pay these prices plus a heft MR just to get a new home.

Submitted by familyguy on June 29, 2011 - 8:08am.

ocrenter wrote:
familyguy wrote:
I see those first two homes are coming right along. I would assume those will be the models?

I thought somebody said there's going to be 8 different models available. But they'll just have 2 model homes?

I'm not saying there will "only" be two models, just that there are only two houses being built currently.

Submitted by ocrenter on June 29, 2011 - 11:48am.

familyguy wrote:
ocrenter wrote:
familyguy wrote:
I see those first two homes are coming right along. I would assume those will be the models?

I thought somebody said there's going to be 8 different models available. But they'll just have 2 model homes?

I'm not saying there will "only" be two models, just that there are only two houses being built currently.

that's true. but usually a builder would build all of the model homes at the same time. kinda bizaare to build the model homes in phases as well.

Submitted by kcal09 on June 29, 2011 - 2:47pm.

ocrenter wrote:
familyguy wrote:
ocrenter wrote:
familyguy wrote:
I see those first two homes are coming right along. I would assume those will be the models?

I thought somebody said there's going to be 8 different models available. But they'll just have 2 model homes?

I'm not saying there will "only" be two models, just that there are only two houses being built currently.

that's true. but usually a builder would build all of the model homes at the same time. kinda bizare to build the model homes in phases as well.

I think in today's market nobody wants to take the risk of investing too much. They probably want to see what the demand is before building more models.

Submitted by familyguy on June 29, 2011 - 7:48pm.

I would have expected at least 3 models, but as kcal stated, maybe they are simply judging demand before they sink too much into it.

Another thing I noticed that was different than the "boom era" was that their sales office is a trailer as opposed to using the garage of one of the models made into an office, only to convert it back into a garage again when someone purchases it.

Submitted by recordsclerk on June 29, 2011 - 8:28pm.

They are having a VIP event on July 9th for those that are on the interest list (RVSP). The 8 floor plans will be unvieled. The 2 models (still under contruction) will be available for viewing. I'm not sure if they will build more models or not. Pricing will start in the mid 800s.

Submitted by ocrenter on June 29, 2011 - 8:48pm.

recordsclerk wrote:
Pricing will start in the mid 800s.

Wow, that's going to kill off Serenity and Monstrosity. Anyone thinking of buying in those tracts should really hold off. Like I said before, Toll has the advantage of buying the lots at $200k discount per lot. That will really allow them to undercut those two without sacrifices in pricing.

Submitted by sunny88 on June 29, 2011 - 9:04pm.

I can't wait to see how these homes look like. If the prices start in the $800 Serenity and Montoro have to drop their prices significantly. After seeing Montoro I can't even imagine that anybody would buy these cheaply built homes down in that canyon.

Submitted by localguy on June 30, 2011 - 6:04am.

Just FYI, Toll Bros has purchased the Viewpoint area at the end of Stonebridge. Standard Pacific just purchased the lots east and west of Scripps Preserve as well. That sort of wraps it up for vacant lots out here.
Localguy

Submitted by familyguy on June 30, 2011 - 7:45am.

Very interesting about the viewpoint lots. It's a haul to get back there, but the lots are great.

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