SF city RE prices down to 2017 prices due to crime wave and WFH

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Submitted by gzz on May 23, 2022 - 3:15pm

I am surprised I haven’t seen this covered before. Spent a few minutes on Zillow and saw a bunch of listings at 2017 prices or 0-10% above prior 2016 sales.

The city is famous for being anti-developer, but there were tons of new construction condos for sale. That’s not helping either.

I also saw a condo that rented for 4k a few years ago fail to rent for 3k for months and then switch the listing to a sale.

I saw also a few small complexes in nice renovated condition and no rent control issues for under 500k a unit.

Really sad and shocking what happens when anti-police politicians take over. They literally elected as their DA a guy who is opposed to bail and is the son of a terrorist couple who murdered two police officers while robbing an armored truck.

While it had its issues even then, SF of 2019 was still an amazing place and the center of techie culture. In 2021 Mission St was like a bombed out war zone and refugee camp, when it was full of unique restaurants boutiques and showcases.

Submitted by spdrun on May 23, 2022 - 4:00pm.

Or maybe property was just insanely overvalued in SF, to the point that only the wealthy could afford it. Maybe it's a good thing that pricing is reverting to mean.

Policing in this country was largely crap from the 1990s to 2010s -- too many people in prison for victimless crimes and psych/medical issues. I'm GLAD there's been a reckoning. If business owners and stockholders get slightly less rich because of it, so be it.

Bail and pre-trial remand should only be used in the most serious of crimes. Keeping people locked up for years awaiting trial is fucking inhumane and unconstitutional. The system should be set up not to force people into pleading out to crimes they may not even have committed in order to get out of jail. Possible prison time should (if anything) be reduced to levels similar to what's seen in Europe.

Also, "bombed out wasteland" is a bit of hyperbole. The yellow press really has it in for NYC, calling it a crime-riddled wasteland. Yet life goes on, mostly normally, for people who actually live here and don't read the Murdoch (pronounced Merde-dog) media.

Besides, shouldn't you see this as an opportunity? If prices crash to early 2010s levels, you could buy and rent out to your heart's content.

Submitted by an on May 23, 2022 - 4:37pm.

spdrun wrote:
Besides, shouldn't you see this as an opportunity? If prices crash to early 2010s levels, you could buy and rent out to your heart's content.

Exactly! These shitty policy goes in cycle. Looking for more killings and SF becoming an even bigger wasteland. Give me an opportunity to get in, then the citizens will be sick of it and vote for someone who will bring law and order back to the city and RE price will go back up again.

Submitted by spdrun on May 23, 2022 - 4:39pm.

The shitty policy was mass incarceration and the War on Some Drugs. Cops and jailers got too fucking uppity in the US and needed to be told their proper place. Create an unemployable class with criminal records due to victimless crimes that never should have been crimes, and you get more poverty, more rage, and more crime. The US fucked itself starting with Reagan.

Submitted by sdrealtor on May 23, 2022 - 5:25pm.

Uhhh this is about San Francisco not the US. San Francisco has long been liberal and looked the other way at drug offenses and been home of the counter culture for decades. The situation you’re describing is your own personal pity party and was not the state of affairs in that city. What happened in that city is what happens when you don’t control lawlessness for decades not because of aggressive policing

Submitted by spdrun on May 23, 2022 - 5:31pm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51t1OsPSdBc

Glad to see gentrification go in reverse for once.

Submitted by sdrealtor on May 23, 2022 - 5:51pm.

Lol you’re probably the whitest dude here

Submitted by spdrun on May 23, 2022 - 6:07pm.

Gentrification isn't only about race. In many cases, it's creating a monoculture that pushes everything else that's interesting out.

Submitted by sdrealtor on May 23, 2022 - 6:17pm.

spdrun wrote:
Gentrification isn't only about race. In many cases, it's creating a monoculture that pushes everything else that's interesting out.

I actually listen to NWA, Dre, Kendrick, Cube, J Cole and others. Don’t pull out the rap card. You’ve probably never listened to any of it. You look silly

Submitted by spdrun on May 23, 2022 - 6:41pm.

What the fuck do you know about my musical tastes?

Submitted by sdrealtor on May 23, 2022 - 7:02pm.

Clearly more than you think. Poser. If you actually listened to it you’d never use it the way you are. Now put on your headdress and start whining about stolen Indian lands

Submitted by spdrun on May 23, 2022 - 7:06pm.

Hook. Line. Sinker.

Submitted by an on May 23, 2022 - 7:14pm.

spdrun wrote:
The shitty policy was mass incarceration and the War on Some Drugs. Cops and jailers got too fucking uppity in the US and needed to be told their proper place. Create an unemployable class with criminal records due to victimless crimes that never should have been crimes, and you get more poverty, more rage, and more crime. The US fucked itself starting with Reagan.

That's what you get for breaking the law... quit ya whining.

Submitted by an on May 23, 2022 - 7:16pm.

spdrun wrote:
Gentrification isn't only about race. In many cases, it's creating a monoculture that pushes everything else that's interesting out.

What is this monoculture you're referring to? And what's this interesting thing you're referring to?

Submitted by spdrun on May 23, 2022 - 7:28pm.

The law isn't always right and certainly isn't equal to morality. Why is it the state's fucking business what people put into their own bodies or do in the bedroom? It wasn't too long ago (within living memory, even) that same-sex and interracial relationships were illegal in many parts of the "land of the free." Same-sex intercourse was illegal in CA until the 1970s. Pot was illegal even in California until the mid 2010s. Are you saying that the people arrested, jailed, fined, and forced into treatment for those heinous "crimes" got what they deserved?

To your other post: San Francisco used to have a vibrant art and music scene that was largely priced out of the city starting in the late 1990s. If the city ends up a bit more balanced vs being a bedroom community for 20-somethings working in Cupertino and San Jose, maybe it will be a better place for it.

Submitted by an on May 23, 2022 - 7:57pm.

That's as relevant of an argument as me saying you think serial killers should be set free.

Btw, in the 90s, whites were the majority, now, that's no longer the case. Do you have a problem with people of colors moving in? That's pretty racist.

Submitted by sdrealtor on May 23, 2022 - 8:06pm.

He spends too much time locked up in his room alone reading stuff on the Internet. I wonder if he’s ever even been there. He has no idea what happened there and what is happening there

Submitted by spdrun on May 23, 2022 - 8:20pm.

I know that the press is exaggerating the supposed "crime wave" in my own city (NY), and I don't expect SF to be much different. The press seems to have a hate-on for urban areas ever since COVID struck. I've been to SF multiple times, though not post-COVID (I haven't been on a plane since 2020).

I was in SF after the Kate Steinle shooting, and it wasn't the den of crime and iniquity that the right-wing press and Trumpanzees were painting it as. I'm skeptical that downtown SF looks like Bucha or Mariupol right now.

Submitted by sdrealtor on May 23, 2022 - 8:24pm.

You have no idea. I was up in LA a month ago and the amount of people camped out all over the streets is shocking, startling and shameful. Things go on in the open that should not be everywhere.

Its better in SD but still really bad. I went to dinner at Born and raised in Little Italy last week for a friends birthday. Was late for dinner and found a spot on the street with a homeless encampment on the sidewalk next me. I have no issues with people doing drugs if they want to but not notoriously in public while living on the streets, urinating and defacating in public. I know a bunch of people who have been attacked on the streets by mentally ill homeless people. I think we need to figure out ways to help these people, get them help/treatment and am sympathetic to their plight but just the same we cant live with anarchy.

My tesla has sentry mode which monitors what is going on and I can actually watch the cameras on my phone. If they got near breaking into the car I wouldve run right out.

We literally watched a live streamed a Homeless Crack Party on my phone during dinner. Sorry but that is just not OK

Submitted by spdrun on May 23, 2022 - 8:34pm.

How to fix it? Let housing prices fall, subsidize housing for homeless people who need it at lower prices. I suspect that the current housing frenzy actually forced people whose situations were marginal pre-COVID into homelessness.

Put it this way - a friend was able to rent an apartment in coastal Carlsbad during the bottom of the 2008-9 crisis/correction. Rent was $850 per month, on the west side of I-5 (the only down side was that it was near the rail line, so there was a lot of train horn noise early in the morning). It's probably $1600-2000 per month now, and incomes haven't doubled since then for many people.

Submitted by sdrealtor on May 23, 2022 - 8:47pm.

LOL you have no idea. Sure there are people who may have been priced out but they can always go somewhere cheaper or double up. They dont have to be on the streets.

In n Out pays $20/hour here now. It was about $7.75 back in 2008. If they wanted to or were able to work there is plenty of work and places they could afford to live. This is a crime problem and a mental health crisis not a housing crisis.

And your full of it with Carlsbad rent prices as Ive lived here for decades. An apartment in Rancho Bernardo started around $995 in 1997 when I moved there and rented one. I have clients that rent a 1BR below market to good tenants who stay long term. The below market rent on my clients 1BR in 08/09 3 miles from the beach in Carlsbad was $1300 in Summer 2008. And the rent today would be well over $2K today.

You dont live here or SF. I rememeber asking whenn you first came here. You told me early on you grew up in Summit NJ. You grew surrounded by priviliged lifestyles and probably went to some elite university and became a lazy bleeding heart liberal who doesnt want to work. Amirite?

And please stop making things up

Submitted by spdrun on May 23, 2022 - 8:56pm.

They have to be able to get the job. A bit difficult if you look homeless and have mental health issues. The jobs may exist now, but they weren't available in 2020 when many restaurants had to close, so there may be a significant period of homelessness involved.

$20/hr = $40k/yr or $30000 after taxes. $2500/mo. Hardly living the life. Housing $1000/mo, car + insurance + maintenance $500/mo. Does In-and-Out offer health insurance?

The solution is to house the people first, get them medical care, and get them jobs. Oh, and I grew up lower middle class in a rich town, which was its own special kind of hell. I was one of the few "apartment kids" which parents had recently gotten divorced and lost their home.

Submitted by an on May 23, 2022 - 8:56pm.

spdrun wrote:

The solution is to house the people first, get them medical care, and get them jobs.

LoL, if it's that easy, it would have already been done.

Submitted by sdrealtor on May 23, 2022 - 8:59pm.

spdrun wrote:
(1) They have to be able to get the job. A bit difficult if you look homeless and have mental health issues.

(2) $20/hr = $40k/yr or $30000 after taxes. $2500/mo.

Again you have no idea. People making $40K pay little to no taxes. In fact I used to do taxes for someone in the range who not only didnt pay taxes but as a single mother got about $5000/year back in tax credits (earned income credit etc) and fully subsidized great health care through ACA for free for her and her son. And she worked her tail off

Of course they have to be able to get a job which is exactly my point! They wont or are unable to. Its a crime problem and a mental health problem far more than a housing problem. Stop with the faux liberal elite moral granstanding. You are exactly what the right wingers hate and why we will lose control of this country to them soon. You want everyone to pay for everyone else as long as it doesnt involve you going to work and paying for it. You're the problem not the solution

Submitted by spdrun on May 23, 2022 - 8:59pm.

Do we have any better ideas? Throwing people in jail repeatedly is generally more expensive than housing and does nothing for their future employment prospects and ability to re-integrate into society.

Submitted by sdrealtor on May 23, 2022 - 9:00pm.

spdrun wrote:
They have to be able to get the job. A bit difficult if you look homeless and have mental health issues. The jobs may exist now, but they weren't available in 2020 when many restaurants had to close, so there may be a significant period of homelessness involved.

$20/hr = $40k/yr or $30000 after taxes. $2500/mo. Hardly living the life. Housing $1000/mo, car + insurance + maintenance $500/mo. Does In-and-Out offer health insurance?

The solution is to house the people first, get them medical care, and get them jobs. Oh, and I grew up lower middle class in a rich town, which was its own special kind of hell. I was one of the few "apartment kids" which parents had recently gotten divorced and lost their home.

So which elite university did you attend?

Submitted by sdrealtor on May 23, 2022 - 9:01pm.

spdrun wrote:
Do we have any better ideas? Throwing people in jail repeatedly is generally more expensive than housing and does nothing for their future employment prospects and ability to re-integrate into society.

This is California for chrissakes! We dont throw them in jail and when we do we let them right back out. We let them camp out all over our streets and use them as bathrooms while attacking innnocent people. Get on a plane. See for yourself

Submitted by spdrun on May 23, 2022 - 9:02pm.

$40k is out of the Medicaid/subsidized range for a single person, and most of the homeless people aren't families. I think the job thing is more "unable to" -- someone who's been sleeping rough for a year or more doesn't interview well. Connect them to services that will allow them to clean up, have a safe indoor place to shower, and become employable.

Again - how should this be FIXED other than warehousing people in jail, which isn't a long-term solution?

Submitted by an on May 23, 2022 - 9:03pm.

spdrun wrote:
Do we have any better ideas? Throwing people in jail repeatedly is generally more expensive than housing and does nothing for their future employment prospects and ability to re-integrate into society.

This is America, you can't just round people up and put them into housing they don't want to be in and make them do stuff that they don't want to do.

Submitted by spdrun on May 23, 2022 - 9:06pm.

You absolutely can't and shouldn't, but would people sleeping rough actually turn down the offer of a dry place to sleep with no strings attached for six months? As we learned from quarantine measures - coercion actually reduces interest in compliance. Offer housing, connect them with services IF THEY CHOOSE TO USE THEM and help them voluntarily rebuild their lives.

Submitted by sdrealtor on May 23, 2022 - 9:07pm.

Exactly they refuse treatment and help over and over. The problem you talk about is not the problem. Youre as bad maybe worse than the wealthy liberal elites you grew up around because you think like them but resent their wealth at the same time.

Here's a better idea. GET A FRICKIN JOB! GO DO SOMETHING!

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