Right-Wing Media are Destroying Our Country

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Submitted by zk on May 12, 2017 - 6:41am

For a long time I've been saying that the right-wing media is destroying our country. This is what I'm talking about:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/poli...

Republican voters, being human and therefore credulous and gullible, believe whatever they hear on Fox Propaganda (and Breitbart and the rest of the right-wing media). They support republicans and con man don no matter what they do, because Fox Propaganda tells them republicans and con man don are doing a great job no matter what they do.

As I've said before, I don't think right-wing voters are more credulous than left-wing voters or anybody else. The difference is that there is a massive industry dedicated to right-wing propaganda.

Sure, the left has some propaganda available. But there are big differences between what's available on the left and what's available on the right. Mainly Fox Propaganda, but there is a lot more. Fox Propaganda is propaganda masquerading as real, hard, actual news. And it's the go-to "news" outlet of tens of millions of Americans. The left has nothing like that. Many conservatives will tell you that all of the mainstream media is left-wing propaganda. This is because they believe whatever they hear on Fox Propaganda, which has been peddling that idea since the day they come on the air. And now, you have Breitbart and a thousand other "news" websites, all of which create an alternate universe where a right winger can find all the sources he needs to validate what he's hearing on Fox Propaganda. Many of them have moved past Fox Propaganda and now have Breitbart and similarly virulent right-wing propaganda sites as their go-to "news" outlet. They never want or see a need to read the New York Times or the Washington Post. Why would they read actual news when they have available to them thousands of places that make them feel great about themselves and their ideas? Somewhere where everyone agrees with them?

So now we have a president with fascist tendencies, and a congress afraid to stand up to him, because it will hurt them with their base, because their base loves con man don, and they can's see con man don for what he is because they're watching Fox Propaganda, which is telling them how great he's doing. He's in the process of eliminating governmental checks on his power. There's a good chance he'll succeed, because nobody wants to stand up to him, because that would be an unpopular move with republican voters, who think he's doing a great job because they watch Fox Propaganda.

What happens when you have a fascist president with greatly reduced checks on his power? Unfortunately, I think we're about to find out. And we have right-wing media to thank.

Submitted by zk on August 7, 2017 - 9:26am.

Back to the subject at hand:

livinincali wrote:

The study takes people that view themselves in 5 distinct categories. Very left, moderate left, middle, moderate right, and far right. It asks them what their view is of each news network. Those on on the far left had a untrustworthy view of Fox and like far right programming. The far right distrusted most news outlets to the far left. Those in the moderate categories and middle took exception with far right and far left media but most of the mainstream media was fine including regular old Fox news. If that's not a measure of how the general public perception of bias I don't know what is.


Cali, you’re the only one here debating “the general public perception of bias.” Everybody else is talking about reporting. Not perception. This has been pointed out to you several times. I’m not sure why you keep ignoring it and changing the subject back to perception.

livinincali wrote:

The fact that you take so much exception with news media on the right probably means you really probably are in the far left category. You might not view yourself as far left but relative to the general US population you probably are. That's probably why you and some of the other posters see this asymmetrical bias you like to claim. You see yourself as the middle but don't realize that you're actually on the far left compared to the general population.

You’re making a basic assumption here that is incorrect. And that assumption is that conservatives and liberals distrust the media on the “other side” for the same reason.

Let’s call this a hypothetical, just for the purposes if disproving your arguments. (For the record, to me, this is not hypothetical. This is what’s actually happening.):

What if the reporting at the NYT and WAPO are basically in the center (unbiased)? What if the reporting on most mainstream media clusters around the center? And, in this hypothetical, reporting on Fox (and, of course, Drudge, Limbaugh, etc) are heavily biased to the right. And what if liberals distrust right-wing media because it’s actually heavily biased? And what if conservatives distrust mainstream media because that’s what fox has been telling them to do for decades (a process which con man don has intensified and accelerated)?

If all of that is true, then that pew study would look exactly like it does. And mainstream media are not biased and right-wing media are. And it should be clear to you that your (completely illogical to begin with) claim that this study sheds any light on actual reporting is invalid. And it should also show you that there’s another possibility as to why I distrust right-wing media. And that is because it is actually biased, and not because of my political views.

Submitted by harvey on August 7, 2017 - 9:05am.
Submitted by zk on August 7, 2017 - 9:07am.

Here's a fantastic article from Jennifer Rubin:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/rig...

The whole article really is worth reading. She starts right off with:

A large segment of Republican voters should try turning off Fox News and allowing reality to permeate the shell they’ve constructed to keep out ideas that interfere with their prejudices and abject ignorance. Unfair? Take a look at the latest poll to suggest that Trump voters like their cult hero feel compelled to label inconvenient facts “fake news.” Morning Consult reporters: “A plurality of Republicans say President Donald Trump received more of the popular vote in 2016 than his Democratic rival, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. According to a new Morning Consult/POLITICO poll, 47 percent of Republican voters said Trump outpaced Clinton — despite her nearly 2.9 million-vote advantage after all the states certified their election results.”

Later she says:

If these voters do not know or cannot accept something as simple as vote totals, do we really expect they will be amenable to reason on immigration (sorry, but illegal immigrants aren’t causing a crime wave), global warning (sorry, it’s not a hoax) or uncontroverted evidence of Russian meddling in the election? I’m sure all this makes the Trump staff and surrogates laugh uproariously as they admire their handiwork in bamboozling the angry mob. But they and the network of right-wing enablers have done real damage to our society and politics, making differences impossible to bridge and reasoned debate nearly impossible.

Real damage to our society and politics. It's good to see that someone agrees with me to some extent, especially an intelligent conservative.

And she's not even counting the damage that con man don and the other cowards that the ignoratti have elected have done and will continue to do.

Submitted by zk on August 7, 2017 - 9:22am.

And Rubin's comment "making differences impossible to bridge and reasoned debate nearly impossible" is very important.

It's impossible to debate someone who is starting with a different set of "facts." God, remember when we didn't have to put "facts" in quotes? Con man don's administration has taken fox's work over the last several decades and run with it. Fox viewers were truth-challenged before, and it's only gotten worse. How do you use logic, reason, evidence, and facts to debate someone when they're starting with different "facts"?

Submitted by no_such_reality on August 7, 2017 - 9:56am.

The numbers for July 30, 2017:

Network Program Total Viewers A25-54
CBS Face the Nation 3.268 M 784 k
NBC Meet the Press 3.072 M 882 k
ABC This Week 2.696 M 782 k
FOX Fox News Sunday 1.370 M 446 k
UNI Al Punto N/A N/A

Nightly news looks much the same.

So much fixation on Fox. I don't watch it, but seems everybody is fixated on them.

Submitted by harvey on August 7, 2017 - 10:15am.

no_such_reality wrote:
The numbers for July 30, 2017:

Network Program Total Viewers A25-54
CBS Face the Nation 3.268 M 784 k
NBC Meet the Press 3.072 M 882 k
ABC This Week 2.696 M 782 k
FOX Fox News Sunday 1.370 M 446 k
UNI Al Punto N/A N/A

Nightly news looks much the same.

So much fixation on Fox. I don't watch it, but seems everybody is fixated on them.

Are you trying to double-down on being completely wrong today?

You didn't cite a source but it looks like those are just the Sunday morning news show numbers.

Two minutes of google:

FEBRUARY 2017 VS. FEBRUARY 2016 NIELSEN NUMBERS

TOTAL DAY

FNC: 1,762,000 total viewers – up 32% (368,000 in 25-54 – up 40%)

CNN: 853,000 total viewers – up 17%; (284,000 in 25-54 – up 35%)

MSNBC: 807,000 total viewers – up 54%; (188,000 in 25-54 – up 40%)

PRIMETIME: 8-11PM/ET

FNC 2,916,000 total viewers – up 31% (592,000 in 25-54 – up 39%)

CNN: 1,188,000 total viewers – down 26%; (425,000 in 25-54 – down 15%)

MSNBC: 1,496,000 total viewers – up 55%; (345,000 in 25-54 – up 41%)

PRIMETIME: 7-11PM/ET

FNC: 2,794,000 total viewers – up 30%; (558,000 in 25-54 – up 39%)

CNN: 1,173,000 total viewers – down 18%; (415,000 in 25-54 – down 5%)

MSNBC: 1,420,000 total viewers – up 52%; (322,000 in 25-54 – up 42%)

http://press.foxnews.com/2017/02/fox-new...

The O’Reilly Factor Marked a Record with the Highest-Rated Quarter For Any Program in Cable News History

Every Hour on FNC from 6AM-11PM/ET Claimed a Record High in FNC’s 20-Year History

Millennials Watched FNC More Than Any Other Cable News Network in 1Q’17

http://press.foxnews.com/2017/03/fox-new...

Fox News finished far and above its competition in the ratings for the first quarter of 2017, with the network putting up the highest-rated quarter ever in cable news history in the total day viewership measure, according to Nielsen data released Tuesday. This marks 61 consecutive quarters that Fox News has finished number one among cable news networks in total day and primetime viewership.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/cable-ne...

No credible source doubts that Fox dominates the news ratings. Where are you getting these "facts?"

Much of the data shows that Fox is bigger than CNN And MSNBC combined. And that has been the case for years.

Submitted by no_such_reality on August 7, 2017 - 10:19am.

http://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/evening-n...

Numbers for the week of July 24, 2017:

ABC NBC CBS
• Total Viewers:7,553,000 7,212,000 5,574,000
• A25-54: 1,553,000 1,594,000 1,167,000

Submitted by harvey on August 7, 2017 - 10:24am.

That article doesn't even have numbers for Fox.

Your "data" doesn't support any argument at all.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 7, 2017 - 10:53am.

Zk, why do you think the Trump base considers facts optional and truth unknowable?

1. Religion which is the suspension of critical thinking. Lots of practice right there.
2. Low IQ
3. White privilege which is basically the thinking that they are entitled to superior social and economic status no matter what.

Science, education and globalization laid bare the foundations of their culture which is not based on principles but on grubbiness.

Principles which they feigned to espouse (free markets, hard work, initiative, rewards for the brightest, etc.. ) when they had monopoly are now coming to bite them in the ass. So the last refuge of the scoundrel is Trump and Fox New which allows them to suspend reality. But the world goes on.....

Submitted by zk on August 7, 2017 - 11:42am.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Zk, why do you think the Trump base considers facts optional and truth unknowable?

1. Religion which is the suspension of critical thinking. Lots of practice right there.
2. Low IQ
3. White privilege which is basically the thinking that they are entitled to superior social and economic status no matter what.

None of the above. I think it's because they've been emotionally manipulated over the past 30 years by right-wing media (an effect amplified by sharing on social media) to think that way.

Submitted by zk on August 7, 2017 - 11:58am.

Jennifer Rubin, a conservative columnist, thinks that "A large segment of Republican voters" possess "abject ignorance."

Let that sink in.

This is not how a democracy is supposed to work.

That abject ignorance doesn't come from not watching the "news." It comes from watching right-wing media. Right-wing media are turning our democracy into a charade where facts don't matter and manipulation wins the day.

When I say they're destroying our country, note the tense I use. I'm not saying they've destroyed it. I'm saying they're destroying it. If the ignoratti keep voting based on the disinformation they're receiving, we'll continue to lose our standing in the world, we'll continue to lose the things this country stands for, populist economic policies will make us all poorer, and, if all of this lasts long enough, we'll go from being the greatest country in the world to being a third-rate country.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 7, 2017 - 12:03pm.

Manipulated by the right wing media; humm... I can accept that but what enables the manipulation.

You and I live in the same environment but we don't buy the right wing media.
I personally don't even buy the American Exceptionalism mantra. Even before the internet, before I could easily read the foreign press, I tried to look at our foreign policy motivations and what the pushback may be.

There has to be psychological weakness or knowledge deficiency for one to let oneself be manipulated. Like some people are more easily manipulated by their parents, spouses or friends.

I just saw your latest post. Abject ignorance. There you go. And given free wil, why would one get into that state? Maybe path of least resistance because doing otherwise requires more brain power.

Submitted by no_such_reality on August 7, 2017 - 12:07pm.

harvey wrote:
That article doesn't even have numbers for Fox.

Your "data" doesn't support any argument at all.

Sheesh, the same site has data for Hannity, Fox News, CNN, you can look at the numbers.

Fact, the three major news networks nightly news broadcasts together have over 20 million viewers.

Cable news Fox, from your numbers, around 2.9M.

Of course, three major networks (CBS,NBC & ABC each have over 7M viewers of their news.

And of course, with 130M people voting, it's the 2.9 million that tuned into Fox versus the 2.5 million that tuned into CNN and MSNBC that dominated everything.

ESPN had almost as many primetime watchers as FNC.

Talk about doubling down on being wrong.

Submitted by zk on August 7, 2017 - 12:09pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:

There has to be psychological weakness or knowledge deficiency for one to let oneself be manipulated.

I disagree. I think that 90+% of humans are easily manipulated. Maybe you had to start out agreeing with some basic conservative ideas to be manipulated by fox et al. That's not a weakness or knowledge deficiency. It's just where you stand. But, if you start there, it's not that hard to lead you toward less realistic/normal/centrist positions. And, once you're on the bandwagon, next thing you know, you're lapping up sean hannity's nonsense. Just like it wouldn't be hard to take somebody who starts on the left and make them lap up nonsense from (insert influential, prominent, nonsense-talking left-wing media figure here, if you know of one).

FlyerInHi wrote:

Like some people are more easily manipulated by their parents, spouses or friends.

Sure, some people are even more easily manipulated than your average joe. And maybe that's who you're talking about above. But your average joe is pretty easily manipulated.

Submitted by no_such_reality on August 7, 2017 - 12:28pm.

zk wrote:
It's just where you stand. But, if you start there, it's not that hard to lead you toward less realistic/normal/centrist positions. And, once you're on the bandwagon, next thing you know, you're lapping up sean hannity's nonsense.

I don't think it's the Hannity lappers that carried the day. It's the centrist that are slowly pushed away on the dominate channels by the persistent low grade left bias.

The majority of on screen personalities on the major channels were pretty obvious in their favoritism of Secretary Clinton.

This thread is a prime example of the insular discussion that left is having on why they ended up surprised they lost.

I hope you guys figure it out before Trump is reelected because frankly the crap in this thread is what drives moderates to vote for the Orange one IMHO.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 7, 2017 - 1:29pm.

no_such_reality wrote:

frankly the crap in this thread is what drives moderates to vote for the Orange one IMHO.

Nothing of the kind. The popular vote gap is getting larger in favor of Democrats.

Trump just flipped some stagnant industrial states using the same strategy as Nixon's Southern Strategy.

Orange County is now blue. And Hillary voters represented 64% of GDP. The free market spoke but the retrograde political framework benefited Trump.

Submitted by no_such_reality on August 7, 2017 - 2:11pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
no_such_reality wrote:

frankly the crap in this thread is what drives moderates to vote for the Orange one IMHO.

Nothing of the kind. The popular vote gap is getting larger in favor of Democrats.

Trump just flipped some stagnant industrial states using the same strategy as Nixon's Southern Strategy.

Orange County is now blue. And Hillary voters represented 64% of GDP. The free market spoke but the retrograde political framework benefited Trump.

They voted against you.

Nothing else.

Go look in the mirror.

You caused the loss.

Submitted by harvey on August 7, 2017 - 2:13pm.

no_such_reality wrote:
harvey wrote:
That article doesn't even have numbers for Fox.

Your "data" doesn't support any argument at all.

Sheesh, the same site has data for Hannity, Fox News, CNN, you can look at the numbers.

I don't see that. And you provide no links.

Quote:
Fact, the three major news networks nightly news broadcasts together have over 20 million viewers.

Cable news Fox, from your numbers, around 2.9M.

Of course, three major networks (CBS,NBC & ABC each have over 7M viewers of their news.

You're just throwing around numbers incoherently. Some from your links, others just made up.

How hard is it to provide a simple summary of the data from a single source compares all the news networks...and supports your claim?

Quote:
And of course, with 130M people voting, it's the 2.9 million that tuned into Fox versus the 2.5 million that tuned into CNN and MSNBC that dominated everything.

Maybe it's not the same 5+ million people viewing every night?

Are you really arguing that the TV news doesn't influence political opinion?

Quote:
ESPN had almost as many primetime watchers as FNC.

That's starting to explain your confusion...do you understand the ABC/CBS/FOX and especially ESPN have shows that aren't news?

Quote:
Talk about doubling down on being wrong.

Lol, I am talking about you. You were completely wrong about the unemployment numbers in the other thread and now you attempt to claim that widely-available ratings numbers are the exact opposite of the truth.

Read the numbers is my post above. It's simple data collaborated by multiple sources that present all the network news ratings. To anyone with 3rd grade math skills it is very clear which network is bigger.

Your claim about Fox a few posts ago is the complete opposite of reality. You've presented no data that supports your claim.

Quote:
frankly the crap in this thread is what drives moderates to vote for the Orange one IMHO.

You keep bringing that up.

What kind of pathetic logic is that?

People are "driven" to vote for an obviously incompetent con man because they don't like what they read in an internet conversation of complete strangers?

Who are these people can't help themselves?

Submitted by no_such_reality on August 7, 2017 - 2:52pm.

Whatever Harvey, I'm done wasting my time. I hope you figure it out over the next three years.

Submitted by harvey on August 7, 2017 - 3:11pm.

No, there's nothing to figure out. You don't hold some wisdom that others have failed to attain.

Yup, many voted for Trump as some desperate attempt to lash out at the PC movement. And it's obvious to anyone reading your posts that you are likely one of these voters.

It's pathetic, and embarrassing as an American that so many made their choice of president just to spite random strangers. And then they blame the random strangers for the outcome. But that's where we are today.

I figured out a long time ago that I'll vote for the more qualified candidate. That won't change in the next three years.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 7, 2017 - 3:44pm.

no_such_reality wrote:
FlyerInHi wrote:
no_such_reality wrote:

frankly the crap in this thread is what drives moderates to vote for the Orange one IMHO.

Nothing of the kind. The popular vote gap is getting larger in favor of Democrats.

Trump just flipped some stagnant industrial states using the same strategy as Nixon's Southern Strategy.

Orange County is now blue. And Hillary voters represented 64% of GDP. The free market spoke but the retrograde political framework benefited Trump.

They voted against you.

Nothing else.

Go look in the mirror.

You caused the loss.

What you said has nothing to do with moderate, educated voters in metropolitan areas that comprise 64% of GDP.

Yes, maybe the people in abject ignorance in industrial states voted "against me" but that's a different argument.

Submitted by no_such_reality on August 7, 2017 - 3:49pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:

What you said has nothing to do with moderate, educated voters in metropolitan areas that comprise 64% of GDP.

Yes, maybe the people in abject ignorance in industrial states voted "against me" but that's a different argument.

ROFLMAO. I'm sure that wins so many over to your viewpoint.

Submitted by no_such_reality on August 7, 2017 - 3:58pm.

harvey wrote:
No, there's nothing to figure out. You don't hold some wisdom that others have failed to attain.

Yup, many voted for Trump as some desperate attempt to lash out at the PC movement. And it's obvious to anyone reading your posts that you are likely one of these voters.

It's pathetic, and embarrassing as an American that so many made their choice of president just to spite random strangers. And then they blame the random strangers for the outcome. But that's where we are today.

I figured out a long time ago that I'll vote for the more qualified candidate. That won't change in the next three years.

Strawmen, strawmen everywhere.

Submitted by harvey on August 7, 2017 - 4:02pm.

no_such_reality wrote:
FlyerInHi wrote:

What you said has nothing to do with moderate, educated voters in metropolitan areas that comprise 64% of GDP.

Yes, maybe the people in abject ignorance in industrial states voted "against me" but that's a different argument.

ROFLMAO. I'm sure that wins so many over to your viewpoint.

So let's summarize the two arguments you're making in this thread:

- Fox is not the biggest news network, despite overwhelming data to the contrary

- Trump won the election because of FlyerInHi

If you say so.

Submitted by no_such_reality on August 7, 2017 - 4:02pm.

harvey wrote:
no_such_reality wrote:
FlyerInHi wrote:

What you said has nothing to do with moderate, educated voters in metropolitan areas that comprise 64% of GDP.

Yes, maybe the people in abject ignorance in industrial states voted "against me" but that's a different argument.

ROFLMAO. I'm sure that wins so many over to your viewpoint.

So let's summarize the two arguments you're making in this thread:

- Fox is not the biggest news network, despite overwhelming data to the contrary

- Trump won the election because of FlyerInHi

If you say so.

Don't worry, you had a part too. ;)

Submitted by harvey on August 7, 2017 - 4:09pm.

no_such_reality wrote:
Don't worry, you had a part too. ;)

You voted for Trump because of me?

I'm flattered, but that sure is pathetic.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 7, 2017 - 4:41pm.

no_such_reality wrote:
FlyerInHi wrote:

What you said has nothing to do with moderate, educated voters in metropolitan areas that comprise 64% of GDP.

Yes, maybe the people in abject ignorance in industrial states voted "against me" but that's a different argument.

ROFLMAO. I'm sure that wins so many over to your viewpoint.

What? the free market and wealth aren't good enough?

Submitted by no_such_reality on August 7, 2017 - 6:22pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
no_such_reality wrote:
FlyerInHi wrote:

What you said has nothing to do with moderate, educated voters in metropolitan areas that comprise 64% of GDP.

Yes, maybe the people in abject ignorance in industrial states voted "against me" but that's a different argument.

ROFLMAO. I'm sure that wins so many over to your viewpoint.

What? the free market and wealth aren't good enough?

November 8, 2016.

Res ipsa loquitur

Submitted by svelte on August 7, 2017 - 6:22pm.

zk wrote:
For a long time I've been saying that the right-wing media is destroying our country. This is what I'm talking about:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/poli...

Republican voters, being human and therefore credulous and gullible, believe whatever they hear on Fox Propaganda (and Breitbart and the rest of the right-wing media). They support republicans and con man don no matter what they do, because Fox Propaganda tells them republicans and con man don are doing a great job no matter what they do.

As I've said before, I don't think right-wing voters are more credulous than left-wing voters or anybody else. The difference is that there is a massive industry dedicated to right-wing propaganda.

Sure, the left has some propaganda available. But there are big differences between what's available on the left and what's available on the right. Mainly Fox Propaganda, but there is a lot more. Fox Propaganda is propaganda masquerading as real, hard, actual news. And it's the go-to "news" outlet of tens of millions of Americans. The left has nothing like that.

The more that things change, the more they stay the same.

This is nothing new. It has been around well over 100 years and is a part of what made William Randolph Hearst rich...or more accurately what kept him rich. Only a lot of it was Democratic back then. Ever hear of Yellow Journalism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_jou...

"Yellow journalism, or the yellow press, is a type of journalism that presents little or no legitimate well-researched news and instead uses eye-catching headlines to sell more newspapers.[1] Techniques may include exaggerations of news events, scandal-mongering or sensationalism"

Hmmm...sounds very familiar.

"The term was coined in the mid-1890s to characterize the sensational journalism that used some yellow ink in the circulation war between Joseph Pulitzer's New York World and William Randolph Hearst's New York Journal. The battle peaked from 1895 to about 1898, and historical usage often refers specifically to this period. Both papers were accused by critics of sensationalizing the news in order to drive up circulation, although the newspapers did serious reporting as well. An English magazine in 1898 noted, "All American journalism is not 'yellow', though all strictly 'up-to-date' yellow journalism is American!"

As I said, the more that things change, the more they stay the same.

Take a chill pill. The sun will come up tomorrow. And 100 years from now, our decendants will be complaining that the Thought Permeating Devices (TPDs) are filling our heads with political propaganda from the newly formed SpaceCadet party. TPDs having replaced the internet of the early 2000s, which replaced the newspapers of the 1900s...

Submitted by no_such_reality on August 7, 2017 - 6:24pm.

harvey wrote:
no_such_reality wrote:
Don't worry, you had a part too. ;)

You voted for Trump because of me?

I'm flattered, but that sure is pathetic.

The irony and hubris in a 9 page thread titled "Right-Wing Media are Destroying Our Country" is delicious.

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