the reopening of america is a pivotal historical moment?

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Submitted by scaredyclassic on May 15, 2020 - 1:35pm

i may be way off, but the reopening of america seems to me a moment that may be in future history books, assuming there is a nation still publishing history books in the future.

It's a moment where either deaths will level off or decline, in which case the trumpian/republican forces who argue conspiracy theories, deep state, nanny-state government diatribes and a general sense that the experts can't be trusted will prevail, or deaths will trend upwards, in which case the pro-government pro-science-based types will probably not prevail but at least be able to say, jeez, we tried to warn you, while the nutjobs blame china or bill gates or anyone but themselves and double down on even crazier conspiracy theories about democratic coroners artificially inflating death rates to hurt trump. it'll be like the election fraud arguments, but with fake corpses.

not sure how this all plays out, or what people really believe deep down, but it seems like this very moment in time could be an actual important event in american history.

the subheading in the bookchapter might be, "The Great National Science Experiment", or "Money v. Life, a Risky Balance". well, we have time to work out the text.

I for one am very interested to see what happens. I expect most people wont suddenly head out to party, as I still get the heebie jeebies if the supermarket's too crowded. thats why i only shop at barons, a bit overpriced , but lots of space.

But enough people probably will cut loose that they'll be able to give us a decent run on the experiment.

for the record, I am not on the side of death, I do not want many people to die, but my gut tells me this is going to be a decent sized culling, and that the upward trend of deaths (assuming that happens) is going to hang over the market and put pressure on growth.

assuming you agree, and don't want to short the market, because you believe the Fed will resort to just buying stock shares to prop up prices, where does your extra cash non 401k investment money go.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on May 15, 2020 - 3:05pm.

Looking for a deal on a newer used car.
I know pathetic.

IMO the world wide Lock-down's will be viewed in the future as an overreaction that caused untold suffering and misery unnecessarily especially in poorer countries.
And could have been avoided just using sensible less drastic measures.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on May 15, 2020 - 3:11pm.

I think most Americans will agree with you, even if the death toll is 1 million domestically.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 15, 2020 - 3:22pm.

The-Shoveler wrote:
IMO the world wide Lock-down's will be viewed in the future as an overreaction that caused untold suffering and misery unnecessarily especially in poorer countries.
And could have been avoided just using sensible less drastic measures.

In USA, we were unprepared with sensible, less drastic measures.
Poor countries don’t have resources so they are just winging it. We should have assisted and provided expertise and resources.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 15, 2020 - 3:29pm.

scaredyclassic wrote:
It's a moment where either deaths will level off or decline, in which case the trumpian/republican forces who argue conspiracy theories, deep state, nanny-state government diatribes and a general sense that the experts can't be trusted will prevail, or deaths will trend upwards, in which case the pro-government pro-science-based types will probably not prevail but at least be able to say, jeez, we tried to warn you, while the nutjobs blame china or bill gates or anyone but themselves and double down on even crazier conspiracy theories about democratic coroners artificially inflating death rates to hurt trump. it'll be like the election fraud arguments, but with fake corpses.

not sure how this all plays out, or what people really believe deep down, but it seems like this very moment in time could be an actual important event in american history.

You write beautifully scaredy. I was thinking the same thing but I was unable to put it into words like you did.

Submitted by svelte on May 15, 2020 - 3:44pm.

This is a rare event, but not a unique event.

These same conversations and life vs economy discussions happened in 1918 and, just like today, there were folks on both sides of the fence, protests, and different communities taking different approaches.

I've read every San Diego newspaper from the last half of 1918 (I did that back in March when this all started) and the parallels to what they did then to what we are doing now are striking.

For all of the advances in technologies and record-keeping we've made in 100 years, the approaches and reactions to those approach are largely the same.

1918 Spanish Flu Epidemic1918 Spanish Flu Epidemic

Submitted by zk on May 15, 2020 - 4:39pm.

The-Shoveler wrote:

IMO the world wide Lock-down's will be viewed in the future as an overreaction that caused untold suffering and misery unnecessarily especially in poorer countries.
And could have been avoided just using sensible less drastic measures.

What we need to open the economy while minimizing deaths is a massive program of testing and contact tracing.

But our president says testing is "overrated" and "“When you test, you have a case. When you test, you find something is wrong with people. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases.”

As long as we have a president who has that outrageously weak of an understanding of the situation, we won't be able to minimize deaths and open the economy at the same time.

Submitted by Coronita on May 15, 2020 - 6:34pm.

you know what? if some states don't care and want to open up ... let them ... Just don't let the people from those states enter CA....

Too bad that's not possible .

Unfortunately,a lot of Americans value freedom versus public health so.... We're all just going to get infected eventually.

I'm going to be avoiding restaurants and closed /indoor venues for some time. maybe until next year. Good thing being in San Diego, much of the activity is outdoors.

Submitted by outtamojo on May 15, 2020 - 7:18pm.

The-Shoveler wrote:
Looking for a deal on a newer used car.
I know pathetic.

IMO the world wide Lock-down's will be viewed in the future as an overreaction that caused untold suffering and misery unnecessarily especially in poorer countries.
And could have been avoided just using sensible less drastic measures.

Keep an eye on Latin america.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 15, 2020 - 7:54pm.

svelte wrote:
For all of the advances in technologies and record-keeping we've made in 100 years, the approaches and reactions to those approach are largely the same.

That a pretty sad situation we’re in.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 15, 2020 - 7:56pm.

Coronita wrote:
you know what? if some states don't care and want to open up ... let them ... Just don't let the people from those states enter CA....

Too bad that's not possible .

Unfortunately,a lot of Americans value freedom versus public health so.... We're all just going to get infected eventually.

I'm going to be avoiding restaurants and closed /indoor venues for some time. maybe until next year. Good thing being in San Diego, much of the activity is outdoors.

Live free or die.

Submitted by svelte on May 16, 2020 - 8:27am.

We want to make sure our favorite places survive, so we plan on going out as soon as they open up. We'll be extra cautious, but we're not going to live in isolation.

Submitted by ocrenter on May 16, 2020 - 2:10pm.

Coronita wrote:
you know what? if some states don't care and want to open up ... let them ... Just don't let the people from those states enter CA....

Too bad that's not possible .

Unfortunately,a lot of Americans value freedom versus public health so.... We're all just going to get infected eventually.

I'm going to be avoiding restaurants and closed /indoor venues for some time. maybe until next year. Good thing being in San Diego, much of the activity is outdoors.

Would avoid southern part of the county. Even if it is open outdoors activities.

TJ is a bloody mess. ER at least 3x overcapacitated. Intubations in hallways. Regular ER and hospitalists all called to CDMX. GPs trying to manage but they are looking at 100% mortality with their intubated patients. The patients they do not intubate they just call “pneumonia” and sent straight home.

Meanwhile our ports of entry still open to numerous citizens living south of the border with no quarantine restrictions. Lots of them driving right across and directly to Sharp and Scripps Chula Vista Hospitals. Both ICUs completely full.

Submitted by outtamojo on May 16, 2020 - 2:45pm.

Pandemic need worldwide cooperation but those effen evangelicals/rapture folks like pompeo see one world government end of times every move we make towards a world community.

We should be helping our southern neighbors more if only to keep the virus from moving north.

Submitted by ocrenter on May 16, 2020 - 2:46pm.

outtamojo wrote:
Pandemic need worldwide cooperation but those effen evangelicals/rapture folks like pompeo see one world government every move we make towards a world community.

We should be helping our southern neighbors more if only to keep the virus from moving north.

Typically US would take leadership on this. A competent US President would have gotten the ball rolling in mid January.

Submitted by outtamojo on May 16, 2020 - 3:14pm.

ocrenter wrote:
outtamojo wrote:
Pandemic need worldwide cooperation but those effen evangelicals/rapture folks like pompeo see one world government every move we make towards a world community.

We should be helping our southern neighbors more if only to keep the virus from moving north.

Typically US would take leadership on this. A competent US President would have gotten the ball rolling in mid January.

Also doesnt help when the cdc head is a hack.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on May 16, 2020 - 4:22pm.

I'm leaning bv toward full plastic face shield plus mask in public.

Actually maybe also in my house. My wife still sees patients : [

Submitted by scaredyclassic on July 10, 2020 - 2:50pm.

science: 1
dumbasses: 0
trump: -1
Mississippi: -36

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/us/missis...

Submitted by zk on July 10, 2020 - 5:09pm.

scaredyclassic wrote:

not sure how this all plays out, or what people really believe deep down

...

I expect most people wont suddenly head out to party, as I still get the heebie jeebies if the supermarket's too crowded.

Friend of a friend of mine was a big trump supporter. Went to Arizona to attend a party in the middle of their outbreak. Got COVID. Died. Left behind his two daughters.

It appears that they actually believe the propaganda deep down. That guy certainly seems to have.

Submitted by svelte on July 10, 2020 - 5:29pm.

zk wrote:

Friend of a friend of mine was a big trump supporter. Went to Arizona to attend a party in the middle of their outbreak. Got COVID. Died. Left behind his two daughters.

It appears that they actually believe the propaganda deep down. That guy certainly seems to have.

I'm sorry to hear that. Particularly for the daughters.

Otherwise I'd just say he made his decisions.

I struggle with how much to be sympathetic on many topics - especially those in the news this year - and how much to be indifferent. I still feel like I don't have myself tuned correctly yet.

Submitted by zk on July 10, 2020 - 6:16pm.

svelte wrote:

I'm sorry to hear that. Particularly for the daughters.

Otherwise I'd just say he made his decisions.

Yeah, no doubt very rough for them.

Unfortunately, even if you don't have kids, right now those kinds of decisions are likely to affect others (by possibly spreading the virus).

svelte wrote:

I struggle with how much to be sympathetic on many topics - especially those in the news this year - and how much to be indifferent. I still feel like I don't have myself tuned correctly yet.

I know what you mean. It's a crazy time.

Some Japanese theme park gave advice (intended to reduce the spread of the coronavirus) to its customers who ride on roller coasters. And others put it forth as a good motto for 2020:

"Please scream inside your heart"

Submitted by ocrenter on July 10, 2020 - 9:19pm.

People are throwing caution to the wind.

Some lady’s whole family drove to Vegas, huge house party during July 4th. One cousin started having symptoms a day or 2 after, now a bunch of them are all starting to have symptoms.

Another guy hosted a family from Phoenix also curing the July 4th weekend. Someone in that family had a friend with 103 degree fever, this guy now positive but no symptoms so far.

Colleague doing tele-medicine work for IE patients reporting the number of COVID positives just exploding.

It goes on and on and on...

Submitted by kcal09 on July 10, 2020 - 9:50pm.

DJT has failed miserably to lead us through the pandemic. Instead, he is only focused on the economy which he believes is linked to his chances to get reelected.

Submitted by ocrenter on July 10, 2020 - 10:32pm.

kcal09 wrote:
DJT has failed miserably to lead us through the pandemic. Instead, he is only focused on the economy which he believes is linked to his chances to get reelected.

Of course what he failed to recognize is the control of the virus is the key to the economy.

Submitted by Reality on July 11, 2020 - 12:36am.

ocrenter wrote:
kcal09 wrote:
DJT has failed miserably to lead us through the pandemic. Instead, he is only focused on the economy which he believes is linked to his chances to get reelected.

Of course what he failed to recognize is the control of the virus is the key to the economy.

Exactly. They can open everything and pretend nothing's wrong, but if folks like me (and millions more) stay home it's still recession or depression.

It warmed my heart to see the attendance at the Tulsa rally was about 1/3 capacity (1/300 or less would have been better though). The good people of that area are way smarter than this president. I was worried that that wasn't true.

Submitted by svelte on July 11, 2020 - 6:35am.

Reality wrote:

It warmed my heart to see the attendance at the Tulsa rally was about 1/3 capacity (1/300 or less would have been better though). The good people of that area are way smarter than this president. I was worried that that wasn't true.

Tulsa is one of the more liberal areas of OK, which makes it even more puzzling that DJT chose that for his "rally".
Tulsa has a strong LGBT community. Other areas with a higher open mindedness are Norman (with a large college population due to OU) and Stillwater (large college population due to OSU). Otherwise OK is very, very republican.

Submitted by kcal09 on July 11, 2020 - 2:55pm.

He lacks the mental capacity to understand basic principles of science and economics. All he is worried about is himself.

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