Poll. What should we do with the homeless?

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 14, 2019 - 12:05pm
Criminalize and imprison
15% (2 votes)
Reinstitute compulsory workhouses
15% (2 votes)
Send them back where they were born
23% (3 votes)
Give them tent cities to crash at.
8% (1 vote)
Give them places to live
23% (3 votes)
Kill them.
0% (0 votes)
Eat them
8% (1 vote)
Harass them till they go elsewhere
8% (1 vote)
Let them sleep on the street.
0% (0 votes)
Let them sleep on the street for a fee.
0% (0 votes)
Total votes: 13
Submitted by svelte on September 14, 2019 - 12:26pm.

I was talking about this with a scientist from Purdue Univ just a few months ago.

It was interesting to hear that he thought of it as a California problem, and he was curious to hear what it was really like in California's major cities. One question he asked got me thinking: "Don't they want to work?"

I thought about that for a second and replied that some of them DO work, it is just so expensive to live in California's major cities.

So I thought about that question even more that evening. There are probably three major categories of homeless: those that enjoy living on the street, those that are mentally challenged and have no other readily available option, and those that can't afford housing.

To me, that would require three different solutions. Those that enjoy living on the streets probably always will, no solution possible or desired from their perspective. Those that have mental issues should be taken off the street and into some sort of facility. And those that can't afford housing, well obviously we as a society should address that. I don't have the solution in mind, but that is a solvable problem.

My two cents. I'm sure there are studies on this topic, but I'm not gonna spend a lot of time researching it at this point.

Submitted by flu on September 14, 2019 - 1:22pm.

The problem for many is...
1. Displaced worker because of age
2. can't afford existing rent and home process.
3. Can't qualify for federal and state assistance and if they could, there's a long waitlist.

Meanwhile, plenty of folks bring their relatives from overseas, get greencard, and despite being lawyers and doctors are relatively wealthy there, apply for all the federal and state benefits and get them because there's no way to prove their income sources abroad.... Yeah, it's pretty messed up..

We need to help the ones we have here first who have been waiting for help for a long time.. we should make everyone else who needs help wait their turn. We can't solve the world's problems before solving our own domestic problems. And every other country does the exact same thing. Unfortunately, some of are politicians don't see it that way.... Neither do many fvcktard extreme progressives.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 14, 2019 - 2:12pm.

Ubi?

Everyone gets 10k, u must spend it on govt housing if homeless.

Also, free oats and cheese.

Submitted by spdrun on September 14, 2019 - 3:02pm.

Guarantee an education and healthcare safety net outside of housing so that most people never reach the level of psychological/physical damage that homeless often suffer from. For current homeless -- paying for housing while they get psych help and job training is probably a lot cheaper than dealing with it through the prison system.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 14, 2019 - 4:29pm.

flu wrote:

Meanwhile, plenty of folks bring their relatives from overseas, get greencard, and despite being lawyers and doctors are relatively wealthy there, apply for all the federal and state benefits and get them because there's no way to prove their income sources abroad.... Yeah, it's pretty messed up..

We need to help the ones we have here first who have been waiting for help for a long time.. we should make everyone else who needs help wait their turn. We can't solve the world's problems before solving our own domestic problems. And every other country does the exact same thing. Unfortunately, some of are politicians don't see it that way.... Neither do many fvcktard extreme progressives.

Another stupid rant. Too much Fox News brainwash.

People have to declare their assets when they apply for benefits. Sponsors for family green cards have to sign affidavits of support.
https://www.uscis.gov/greencard/affidavi...

Submitted by The-Shoveler on September 15, 2019 - 9:14am.

IMO flu is correct,

Those that know how to work the system are bringing their parents etc... here getting free health care, financial support all the while collecting pensions etc... from their country of origin.

I have seen it.

IMO eventually we will just give up and cordon off areas to let people build shanty towns.

Submitted by svelte on September 15, 2019 - 9:15am.

flu wrote:

Meanwhile, plenty of folks bring their relatives from overseas, get greencard, and despite being lawyers and doctors are relatively wealthy there, apply for all the federal and state benefits and get them because there's no way to prove their income sources abroad.... Yeah, it's pretty messed up..

Have you ever sponsored a green card holder? I assume not, otherwise you would know that the sponsor is financially responsible for the green card holder for a minimum of ten years. It is actually 40 quarters that the holder has legally worked, so if the holder doesn't work that period could actually be much longer.

https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-...

Submitted by flu on September 15, 2019 - 10:41am.

svelte wrote:
flu wrote:

Meanwhile, plenty of folks bring their relatives from overseas, get greencard, and despite being lawyers and doctors are relatively wealthy there, apply for all the federal and state benefits and get them because there's no way to prove their income sources abroad.... Yeah, it's pretty messed up..

Have you ever sponsored a green card holder? I assume not, otherwise you would know that the sponsor is financially responsible for the green card holder for a minimum of ten years. It is actually 40 quarters that the holder has legally worked, so if the holder doesn't work that period could actually be much longer.

https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/financial-responsibility-sponsor-permanent-resident.html

actually we have.... and like I said, plenty of abuse around the system. Speaking of first hand , from all the suggestions from all the peers that made those suggestions, which we declined..absolutely terrible and disgusting... well above more than you can possibly imagine. Maybe your sponsorship was honest as I am sure ours was. but I can confidently say a lot of them are not for the long term.

When does the financial sponsorship end? Are you still financially responsible after citizenship has been granted? What's the waiting period post citizenship before one qualifies for federal and state aid? Is there priority over people waiting for a much longer time? I don't know but I seems to me there is a lot of people I see that sure were quick to federal low income housing in downtown who only live there the minimum 1 day out of the week because the remaining 6 days they spend living with their son/daughter etc in Del Mar Mesa, La Jolla, RSF for the remainder 6 days despite an overly generous pension from the foreign government or from being a doctor/skilled businessman who cleverly hid all their income and assets behind a government for which there are no biliteral relationships to be able to trace and find out.... Yeah, some folks know exactly what I am talking about.

I am not suggesting we should change immigration laws to discourage immigration ... But there are definite gaps we should close that see proned to be abused.... And we should do much better job making sure those already here and have been waiting for aid/assistance are prioritized first. my 2 cents.

Submitted by flu on September 15, 2019 - 10:57am.

The-Shoveler wrote:
IMO flu is correct,

Those that know how to work the system are bringing their parents etc... here getting free health care, financial support all the while collecting pensions etc... from their country of origin.

I have seen it.

IMO eventually we will just give up and cordon off areas to let people build shanty towns.

I often joke that if I wanted to earn several millions, I would figure out a way to collect data and turn in almost every single aquaintance of my in-laws they run into and their respective son/daughter for fraud..It would be easier than working at my day job...Just kidding.... Sort of....

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 15, 2019 - 4:17pm.

Flu, it takes 5 years to get citizenship. And once a person is a citizen, he is the equal to a person born here. No difference whatsoever expect for the right to become president.

A person can come to Cali from Idaho and establish residency within 6 months. So I don’t see how American citizens are being disadvantaged.

I don’t see a problem with a person on welfare spending time at her daughter’s house in La Jolla. So what? A homeless person could have parents who own a big profitable farm in Indiana. Would you force the parents to take care of their drug addicted adult son, homeless in Santa Monica?

Submitted by flu on September 15, 2019 - 5:14pm.

I'm just saying people getting some of those federal and state aid don't need it and if there was much longer waiting period post freshly minted citizenship it certainly would help those who need it that's been waiting a long time who have a chance of re-entering the work force once they get back on their feet..versus someone who is in their 70+80ies who are retired members of the PRC government on a pension with free medical abroad but chose to collect federal and state aid on a technicality...who don't really need it...who have who will never be able to pay back into the system because they will never enter the workforce here. The economic burden for every tax payer would be less if more reasons could be dedicated to those who have been waiting longer who are willing and able to re-enter the workforce so they can pay into the system and contribute to the system that everyone else needs...Personally, I am not completely complaining, because at least I get invited to many potlucks, where people handed out a lot of dried scallop and other expensive food delicacies that I would never ever spend my personal income on... But apparently, they were bought by unused SNAP benefits for two because they couldn't finish their monthly allocation. And they we're laughing about it too.....You are welcome, taxpayers...lol.

Meanwhile there were people at work who talked about how they were struggling just to make ends meet. These people aren't slackers, they work their asses off, some.were talking about living in their cars for some time.... Eye-opener. Yes, of course I am disgusted by it. The extent of fraud and abuse might be small, but still... absolutely horrible.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 15, 2019 - 6:04pm.

Flu, you’re injecting morality into the rule of law. The law is blind. If you’re poor, you qualify for benefits, period.

You could give away all your assets or gamble them away, then you’d be poor and you’d qualify. I think the only legal hurdle is a 36 month look back period.
If one is poor, it makes no difference if one’s kids or grandkids are prosperous Harvard graduates, or if one was a former millionaire.

Perhaps with some households, there are very close families ties. But that has nothing to do with one’s balance sheet. In USA, each individual adult is a separate entity.

Submitted by flu on September 15, 2019 - 7:08pm.

Brian. you don't even live in this state. You chose nevada to avoid any sort of state taxation... just one more shining example of your hypocrisy. But do whatever it takes to make yourself feel better of convince yourself people like you of you need that self affirmation.

Because whatever. if you say so.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 15, 2019 - 9:00pm.

I pay california taxes on my california income and I have a second home in CA, just like Mitt Romney. My home is very modest however.

Like Amazon, Uber or microsoft, I pay all the taxes I am required to pay.

Do you know that many rich farmers get Medicaid and keep hundreds of acres of farmland and luxury pickup trucks? “The google” will tell you.
http://www.inaglaw.org/files/EstateandSu...

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 15, 2019 - 10:26pm.

I'm pissed at the homeless this second. I went to ucr riverside photography museum today 4 a film and photos[amazing place]. It was closed. Security said some homeless guy smashed the front door glass.

Fuck man. So much glass, he had to pick the one place I was going.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 15, 2019 - 10:32pm.

Compulsory workhouses? When did we have them in USA?

Apparently they exist in the U.K.

I was vulnerable and wanted a home. What I got was a workhouse
Daniel Lavelle
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...

Submitted by flu on September 15, 2019 - 10:46pm.

sure Brian. if you say so.

You win Brian. You see, if you want to camp out here and try to resurrect every thread just to start a fight, you are certainly welcome to roll around in the mud like a pig all you want.

There's a limit of how much I want to be part of this blog, because I actually have a pretty color life outside of this blog. As is the normal.case.for people.with afsmily and friends and work and goals...

So with that....whatever floats your boat Brian.

Submitted by flu on September 15, 2019 - 10:47pm.

sure Brian. if you say so.

You win Brian. You see, if you want to camp out here and try to resurrect every thread just to start a fight, you are certainly welcome to roll around in the mud like a pig all you want.

There's a limit of how much I want to be part of this blog, because I actually have a pretty color life outside of this blog. As is the normal case for people with a family and friends and work and goals...

So with that....whatever floats your boat Brian.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 15, 2019 - 11:03pm.

Start a fight?
Who said this?

flu wrote:

fvcktard extreme progressives.

Submitted by svelte on September 17, 2019 - 7:09am.

flu wrote:

I am not suggesting we should change immigration laws to discourage immigration ... But there are definite gaps we should close that see proned to be abused.... And we should do much better job making sure those already here and have been waiting for aid/assistance are prioritized first. my 2 cents.

I agree with you here.

As for your previous paragraphs that I deleted, yes we have sponsored, it was completely legit, and has turned out just fine. No drain on our Government and actually contributed quite a bit through taxes, etc.

I don't have insight into the corrupt side of immigration, though I'm sure it happens and I would be totally on board with eliminating any loopholes.

Submitted by svelte on September 17, 2019 - 7:11am.

modify previous line from "I deleted" to "I deleted from my quote"

Submitted by flu on September 17, 2019 - 1:57pm.

This is messed up...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/17/us/los-an...

He was a Yale graduate, Wall Street banker and entrepreneur. Today he's homeless in Los Angeles

Submitted by barnaby33 on September 17, 2019 - 2:58pm.

Funny none of the options are compulsory treatment for mental health and addiction.
Josh

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 17, 2019 - 2:59pm.

barnaby33 wrote:
Funny none of the options are compulsory treatment for mental health and addiction.
Josh

involuntary commitment falls under criminalize and imprison.

Submitted by outtamojo on September 17, 2019 - 4:23pm.

flu wrote:
This is messed up...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/17/us/los-an...

He was a Yale graduate, Wall Street banker and entrepreneur. Today he's homeless in Los Angeles

Grew up in Texas, been to both coasts, last job was in Ca. but free and unfettered chose to be homeless in Ca.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on September 17, 2019 - 4:57pm.

If someone offered him a job flipping burgers 6 days a week would he take it?

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 17, 2019 - 6:18pm.

We need to do something quick to clear them away. The homeless are hurting the prestige and real estate values of our top cities.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 23, 2019 - 11:32am.

Pretty clear that people are increasingly unnecessary.

Submitted by barnaby33 on September 24, 2019 - 8:40am.

involuntary commitment falls under criminalize and imprison.

While outwardly similar, the intent is vastly different. Involuntary commitment as it currently exists is merely punishment. While emotionally satisfying its shown to be ineffective in dealing with the problem. Treatment and stabilization can be.

However I realize that saying that even leaves vast chasms about what that means. However the poll appeared to be geared towards a Fox News crowd. I'd imagine the new FLU fully approves!
Josh

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 24, 2019 - 4:25pm.

Here's a real issue I had to deal with the homeless.

They go shit by the dumpsters and someone has to clean it up. I mean, why don't they just shit inside the dumpster while they are dumpster diving?! Fuckin'idiots.

If you don't clean it fast enough, code enforcement will fine you for solid waste violations. Fuckin' morons. Same situation when the deplorables don't pickup their pets' shit.

In Singapore, the local authorities, instead of fining the owners, would look at security cameras and prosecute the offenders. The culprits would then be given several lashes of the cane. That fixes it real quick.

Submitted by outtamojo on September 24, 2019 - 4:47pm.

Come to think of it, why don't people riding horses on hiking trails have to pick up their horse poop.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 25, 2019 - 11:31am.

outtamojo wrote:
Come to think of it, why don't people riding horses on hiking trails have to pick up their horse poop.

There is an exception for horses dating back to when they were transport. Also for chicken. I remember this form a real estate class I took a long time ago.

It gets complex. Some jurisdictions prohibit feeding pigeons. But you can have community cats. But no stray dogs. But whatever poop, if you operate a business such as an apartment building, you must clean the poop and trash left by humans and animals. I think we should directly punish the humans responsibile including the homeless. Video evidence should enough for law enforcement. American government can be stupid. The code/waste people don't care who deposited the poop. They just care that it's there. I think there is a law against defecating and urinating in public. But the police don't enforce.

Submitted by ocrenter on September 26, 2019 - 11:22pm.

Homelessness would not exist if there’s UBI

Submitted by outtamojo on September 27, 2019 - 12:19am.

UBI and a house in Detroit from uncle sam https://www.point2homes.com/US/Home-For-...

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 27, 2019 - 8:49am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
Ubi?

Everyone gets 10k, u must spend it on govt housing if homeless.

Also, free oats and cheese.

Yeah. But you also need available housing for that.

In Singapore, the Housing Development Board builds housing and sells it directly to the citizens are 1/3 their income. They can pay their mortgages out of mandatory savings plans. The poorest would rent. No homelessness in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Of course, better off folks can live in market rate housing.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 27, 2019 - 8:57am.

outtamojo wrote:
UBI and a house in Detroit from uncle sam https://www.point2homes.com/US/Home-For-...

Outtamojo, drug addicts cannot own any assets. They will liquidate their assets to feed their habits then they end up homeless just the same. I know a guy whose sister bought him a condo to live in. He's lucky to have a nice sister. He's a good person but he could not manage his life to save it. A veteran no less. His dad was also a veteran of WWII and Korea.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on September 27, 2019 - 10:07am.

Been tried before IMO
new housingnew housing

Does not work well here, we do not allow caning for misbehavior.

Submitted by spdrun on September 27, 2019 - 10:18am.

^^^

There's a line out the door to get an apartment in NYCHA projects. The projects work better than classists like you care to imagine.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on September 27, 2019 - 10:33am.

This is public housing in Singapore. They can do it but we can't?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pinn...
Non residents can pay $5 and go up to the sky garden.

All the schools are good and integrated and Singaporean kids are the smartest in the world.

In Singapore, you can pay for housing out of mandatory savings -- so no extra out of pocket cash expenses.
https://youtu.be/a7eVenDn8CE

Submitted by The-Shoveler on September 27, 2019 - 10:59am.

I don't think the Singaporeans have a lot of patience with drug dealers or users even.

I don't think we could do it here actually.

The penalty for drug dealing in china is death.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 1, 2019 - 10:31am.

What is wrong with Americans and drugs?
Were are supposed to be bootstappers who are hard working and can overcome anything. Drug addition is so weak!

Residents put huge rocks on their sidewalk to keep the homeless away — and launched a battle
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/20...

Submitted by temeculaguy on October 2, 2019 - 12:04am.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw

The MAT program shows promise. Just started in CA prisons and coming to local communities in California. Worth a look.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 3, 2019 - 8:44am.

temeculaguy wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw

The MAT program shows promise. Just started in CA prisons and coming to local communities in California. Worth a look.

People usually quit using drugs or alcohol when they're ready, regardless of the program.

It might be nice to be a healthy hobo.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 3, 2019 - 8:55am.

IMO healthy hobos probably get beat up a lot by the addicts and dealers + whatever other low life is in the area.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 4, 2019 - 9:09am.

There are no healthy hobos.

I give up. Our society is too neurotic. Too many people on drugs of all kinds. Too many psychological drugs. We are too permissive and encouraging of drugs and alcohol. Capitalism in a bad way. — to make money off of people’s weaknesses.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 6, 2019 - 6:48pm.

The-Shoveler wrote:
IMO healthy hobos probably get beat up a lot by the addicts and dealers + whatever other low life is in the area.

Maybe more like a snowbird. A hobo with cash. Travel about. Camp. House s it.

Be unconnected

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 8, 2019 - 5:49am.

LOL That's not a hobo, that's a retired person with a camper van.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 8, 2019 - 8:15am.

The-Shoveler wrote:
LOL That's not a hobo, that's a retired person with a camper van.

"The origin of the term is unknown. According to etymologist Anatoly Liberman, the only certain detail about its origin is the word was first noticed in American English circa 1890. Liberman points out that many folk etymologies fail to answer the question: "Why did the word become widely known in California (just there) by the early Nineties (just then)?" Author Todd DePastino has suggested it may be derived from the term hoe-boy meaning "farmhand", or a greeting such as Ho, boy!

Bill Bryson suggests in Made in America (1998) that it could either come from the railroad greeting, "Ho, beau!" or a syllabic abbreviation of "homeward bound". It could also come from the words "homeless boy". H. L. Mencken, in his The American Language (4th ed., 1937), wrote:

Tramps and hobos are commonly lumped together, but see themselves as sharply differentiated. A hobo or bo is simply a migrant laborer; he may take some longish holidays, but sooner or later he returns to work. Lower than either is the bum, who neither works nor travels, save when impelled to motion by the police."