OT:Echo dot

User Forum Topic
Submitted by moneymaker on January 6, 2017 - 8:07pm

Anybody have it? Wife just ordered it, so will be playing with it tomorrow when it gets here. Home automation here we go! Anybody have any interesting uses for it?

Submitted by spdrun on April 22, 2017 - 6:59am.

At least it still works, isn't tied to someone's "clown".

Submitted by no_such_reality on April 22, 2017 - 8:26am.

spdrun wrote:
At least it still works, isn't tied to someone's "clown".

Like me Spdrun, you're in the minority on that. Most people don't get that corporations aren't their friend. That google, facebook, amazon and the grocery store tracking tracking every purchase and page view isn't about making it better.

The reality is all the data sole purpose is for the corporation to learn how to push your button and goad you. They disguise it as improving products or making products for you but the reality is the changes are mostly trigger items with very low marginally utility.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on April 22, 2017 - 3:29pm.

spdrun wrote:
At least it still works, isn't tied to someone's "clown".

If you pay a subscription to a company like ADT, the authorities can request your information much faster. True that google & co can sell your info to advertisers.

About the antiquated "smart" home features that were only for the rich, required miles of cables, cost big bucks and required professional install.... well, they can now be replaced by wireless miniature devices that cost hundreds. Aren't you amazed by innovation and the democratization of technology?

A realtor showed me a "smart" control panel. I had to bite my tongue not to say anything. I also saw a house where the owner installed at great cost a framed plasma screen (read electricity hog) to show works of art. I'm like... wow what a useless ugly thing that can be better replicated today for cheap. It's an insult to a buyer's intelligence to show that as a "luxury" feature.

Submitted by spdrun on April 22, 2017 - 6:23pm.

I can skip the smart home shit whether it costs $1000 or $100,000.

Submitted by ucodegen on April 22, 2017 - 10:00pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:

About the antiquated "smart" home features that were only for the rich, required miles of cables, cost big bucks and required professional install.... well, they can now be replaced by wireless miniature devices that cost hundreds. Aren't you amazed by innovation and the democratization of technology?

The problem with these new wireless units is a burst at 2.5Ghz and 5Ghz can take them down - sometimes permanently. A leaky microwave can put them on the periodic fritz. A smart person with a yagi or small parabolic antenna and hacking tools can often crack them and take control (security on most of them is sorely lacking) without ever entering your property. The recent DDOS was done through just a small percentage of these 'home automation' devices. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2016/10/sour...

The other thing about home automation tools is that you generally want to run them on a separate net and you generally want to run them wired and encrypted (but most aren't and can't be). Firewall them between your main net and lower net and control what/who they talk to.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on April 25, 2017 - 1:21pm.

Interesting ucodegen. I take it you don't trust IoT which is growing fast.
I'll take my chances for the convenience.

Even the new LED street lamps are now connected. Maybe one day the Russians will hack us and shut down everything. Like Y2K but much worse.

Submitted by ucodegen on April 25, 2017 - 2:48pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Interesting ucodegen. I take it you don't trust IoT which is growing fast.
I'll take my chances for the convenience.

Even the new LED street lamps are now connected. Maybe one day the Russians will hack us and shut down everything. Like Y2K but much worse.


Its not IoT that I don't trust, it is the current group of manufacturers that I don't trust. As for hacking them, it might actually be the Chinese because many of the devices are made in China. China has been known to create backdoors in hardware.

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/03/05...

http://www.information-age.com/security-...

https://www.techworm.net/2015/08/lenovo-...

Submitted by no_such_reality on April 25, 2017 - 3:23pm.

ucodegen wrote:
FlyerInHi wrote:
Interesting ucodegen. I take it you don't trust IoT which is growing fast.
I'll take my chances for the convenience.

Even the new LED street lamps are now connected. Maybe one day the Russians will hack us and shut down everything. Like Y2K but much worse.


Its not IoT that I don't trust, it is the current group of manufacturers that I don't trust. As for hacking them, it might actually be the Chinese because many of the devices are made in China. China has been known to create backdoors in hardware.

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/03/05...

http://www.information-age.com/security-...

https://www.techworm.net/2015/08/lenovo-pcs-and-laptops-seem-to-have-a-bios-level-backdoor.html

I'm more curious what benefits FiH thinks is getting/coming from IoT?

CNET best smart home devices of 2017, Echo #1 and two color changing dimmable connect for remote management lightbulbs #2 & #3.

Seriously, a color changing lightbulb...

Submitted by ucodegen on April 25, 2017 - 5:02pm.

no_such_reality wrote:

I'm more curious what benefits FiH thinks is getting/coming from IoT?

CNET best smart home devices of 2017, Echo #1 and two color changing dimmable connect for remote management lightbulbs #2 & #3.

Seriously, a color changing lightbulb...


A long time ago, I noticed that it was not worth arguing with FiH on personal benefits of certain things.

That said, I do see use in IoT devices like networked sprinkler controllers (considering fiddling with this), weather and precipitation sensors, and light controllers. Justification:

1) sprinkler controllers - depending upon what is at a house, it may be useful to water somethings once a week, others a small dribble every day, and others three times a week. It would also be useful to have the system be able to drop watering on a single day due to rain. Most residential systems today do something like 'gang' watering. All connections go through the cycle for the designated time.

2) Precipitation sensor - can be used to feed into the sprinkler controller

3) Light control - for when you go on vacation. You could really randomize the lights.

There are others - but this is some of what I see. I also see the IoT manufacturers try to do lock-ins as opposed to standardizing the communication. The other part that bothers me is the perceived need to have all of these things run an HTTP server.. really? For sprinkler controllers all that is needed is a simple datagram interface.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on April 25, 2017 - 5:10pm.

When I get home, my Nest senses my arrival and turns on my lights thanks to IFTTT
I like all my lights on for the right ambiance, picture lights, etc...,

I can remotely change my lock code and let my friends and relatives in, when they visit my second home. I can turn off the water heater remotely or have it happen automatically. My door will auto lock in away mode or after a certain time of day. The "recipes" are infinite.

I'm seriously considering an Amazon echo but I'm not really into music. But it would be nice to speak a command instead of pulling out the smart phone.

Current technology puts James Bond bachelor pads to shame.

Submitted by no_such_reality on April 26, 2017 - 9:40am.

ucodegen wrote:
no_such_reality wrote:

I'm more curious what benefits FiH thinks is getting/coming from IoT?

CNET best smart home devices of 2017, Echo #1 and two color changing dimmable connect for remote management lightbulbs #2 & #3.

Seriously, a color changing lightbulb...


A long time ago, I noticed that it was not worth arguing with FiH on personal benefits of certain things.

That said, I do see use in IoT devices like networked sprinkler controllers (considering fiddling with this), weather and precipitation sensors, and light controllers. Justification:

1) sprinkler controllers - depending upon what is at a house, it may be useful to water somethings once a week, others a small dribble every day, and others three times a week. It would also be useful to have the system be able to drop watering on a single day due to rain. Most residential systems today do something like 'gang' watering. All connections go through the cycle for the designated time.

2) Precipitation sensor - can be used to feed into the sprinkler controller

3) Light control - for when you go on vacation. You could really randomize the lights.

There are others - but this is some of what I see. I also see the IoT manufacturers try to do lock-ins as opposed to standardizing the communication. The other part that bothers me is the perceived need to have all of these things run an HTTP server.. really? For sprinkler controllers all that is needed is a simple datagram interface.

I'm intrigued by the automated gardening systems like Farmbot and Gardenbot. For a raised bed and specific crops it has potential, granted, at built price mighty expensive vegetables...

For in ground landscaping, not so much. Unfortunately, for landscaping, consistency is the key. Consistency across large areas, as in entire neighborhoods. If your neighbor is deadheading the lawn, xeri- or hardscaping your ability to maintain traditional trees and eastern lawn will be impacted. With little or no water on their property, they basically become a hole your watering flows into.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on April 26, 2017 - 10:09am.

I would use IoT for gardening if I had a garden. My parents house is xeriscape now. So much easier to maintain than a lawn. With hardscape for outdoor living area, you can make the natural dry socal landscape looks nice. A lawn and tropical plants look so out of place.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 10, 2017 - 9:15am.

spdrun wrote:

I think home automation is a good thing because that will deter burglaries, maybe do away with them entirely.

Want to monitor you daughter? Or worriy she'll be molested by intruder? Get an alarm when a window opens or when her bedroom light comes on at night. Haha... so many things for the paranoid.

I would like a device to record the MAC address of people who walk by my house then gives me a report on how often and when.

I don't want to totally deter property crime -- it keeps the rich and powerful honest.

Home invasions are extremely rare, so rare as to be a non-issue.

Recording MAC addresses -- no thanks, no plans to be a stalker :)

I see that iOS 11 no longer allow apps to access mac adresseses because developers were misusing to track.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pub...
Andrew Ferguson, a University of the District of Columbia law professor, says we are entering an era of “sensorveillance” when we can expect one device or another to be monitoring us much of the time. The title of a law paper on the topic put the prospect this way: “Technology is Killing Our Opportunity to Lie.”

Submitted by spdrun on October 10, 2017 - 10:09am.

No point in doing one's part to help the police state, though. Push back, disconnect, drop out.

What benefit does something like the Echo have in the house of someone who isn't disabled? Don't invite this cr@p inside your home.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 10, 2017 - 10:23am.

It’s the 21st century version of clap on clap off.

I’m on the board of a deplorable complex. New cameras real and fake. New bright white daylight LED lights that are much brighter and save electricity. Working on sensors for storage rooms, etc.

Soon we will be able to get rid of the undesirables and gentrify the community. Technology is a good thing.

I like the Ring video doorbell and the Ring security light with camera. It’s not bad to save to the cloud because there is no infrastructure. The maintenance is what is costly, much more so than the acquisition costs of the devices.

Submitted by spdrun on October 10, 2017 - 10:52am.

The Clapper didn't transmit audio outside the home.

I for one prefer the "undesirables." They know how to party and have a good time, enjoy good music, let me work on my car in the street without calling the cops (maybe offer to help), and generally have a lower level of sphincteral tension.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 10, 2017 - 11:21am.

spdrun wrote:
The Clapper didn't transmit audio outside the home.

I for one prefer the "undesirables." They know how to party and have a good time, enjoy good music, let me work on my car in the street without calling the cops (maybe offer to help), and generally have a lower level of sphincteral tension.

I don’t mind the undesirables generally because I’m a live and let live kinda guy.

Problem is that undesirables have bad lifestyle habits that cost us money. They destroy community property. They are dirty and bring roaches that travel from unit to unit. Their kids are out of control. They make noise that drive away good tenants. They don’t pay rent on time. Plus they don’t have the financial wherewithal to pay what the market will bear. And their cars leak oil that destroy the parking lots.

My fiduciary duty is to the business of real estate.

Submitted by spdrun on October 10, 2017 - 11:53am.

The only person who brought roaches to our rental unit was a Hahhhhhrvard grad. Prima donna couldn't clean worth a damn and liked to leave dirty dishes stacked in the sink.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 10, 2017 - 2:26pm.

Kinda sad, but since people don’t take responsibility for their homes, we have to monitor them.

You’d be surprised how people bitch about safety issues, but their own family members are the ones disabling lights so they can loiter around and smoke/deal drugs.

You know, in San Diego you can call SDPD at anytime of day for loud noise/music. They do come out.

Submitted by ucodegen on October 10, 2017 - 2:28pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:

I see that iOS 11 no longer allow apps to access mac adresseses because developers were misusing to track.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pub...
Andrew Ferguson, a University of the District of Columbia law professor, says we are entering an era of “sensorveillance” when we can expect one device or another to be monitoring us much of the time. The title of a law paper on the topic put the prospect this way: “Technology is Killing Our Opportunity to Lie.”

Link to paper: http://scholarship.law.edu/cgi/viewconte...

Interesting ref: http://inns.innsofcourt.org/media/148720...

Looks like some reading time...

Submitted by CA renter on October 16, 2017 - 3:40am.

spdrun wrote:
No point in doing one's part to help the police state, though. Push back, disconnect, drop out.

What benefit does something like the Echo have in the house of someone who isn't disabled? Don't invite this cr@p inside your home.

Well said, spdrun. I've always been amazed at how easily some people give up their personal information and privacy rights. I still don't have a smartphone, and hope to avoid having one for the rest of my life.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 25, 2017 - 9:39pm.

Amazon Key and Cloud Cam coming. More big brother watching.

Submitted by spdrun on October 25, 2017 - 9:53pm.

Amazon Key is a solution in search of a problem. A one-way package drop box is an elegant solution and doesn't give a random stranger access to your entire home.

This being said, Amazon Key might have a place -- in a backyard shed or garage with a walled-off room with its own door. Make the room only for packages, so the delivery guy doesn't have free reign of the house.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on November 1, 2017 - 8:05am.

Honeywell emailed me about there new system called indiegogo.

So many to choose from. I would like wireless cloud cameras powered by door bell transformer. Only the ring works like that.

I think Amazon may end up dominating the market with their products and Alexa.

Submitted by spdrun on November 1, 2017 - 9:30am.

Indiegogo is the site where it's being marketed.

Thanks but no. I'll set up my own cameras ... and stream to a DVR located in an unobtrusive location under my own (and only my own) control.

Little point in giving an outside party access to photos of my property when a DVR can be the size of an Intel NUC. NUCs are available for $150 with memory. Stick a $50 laptop hard drive in one, and you have enough room for 1000+ hours of storage.

They're small enough to live in an unobtrusive location that's unlikely to be stolen -- inside an electrical panel or a wall.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on November 1, 2017 - 9:42am.

spdrun wrote:
Indiegogo is the site where it's being marketed.

Thanks but no. I'll set up my own cameras ... and stream to a DVR located in an unobtrusive location under my own (and only my own) control.

Little point in giving an outside party access to photos of my property when a DVR can be the size of an Intel NUC. NUCs are available for $150 with memory. Stick a $50 laptop hard drive in one, and you have enough room for 1000+ hours of storage.

They're small enough to live in an unobtrusive location that's unlikely to be stolen -- inside an electrical panel or a wall.

Which one would you suggest?

Submitted by spdrun on November 1, 2017 - 10:44am.

DVR?

Throw ZoneMinder on an Intel NUC.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on November 1, 2017 - 3:07pm.

spdrun wrote:
DVR?

Throw ZoneMinder on an Intel NUC.

Ok. Thanks. I’ll look into zoneminder. I have a property that could use cameras.
I also need POE cameras. 1080p with good facial recognition. Too lazy to do research so that’s why I don’t have it.

Submitted by spdrun on November 1, 2017 - 5:13pm.

POE -- you need the right kind of switch.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on November 8, 2017 - 9:04am.

Just thinking about surveillance. I’m on the board of HOA of a deplorable community. It’s low income and there are petty crimes. But nobody watches the cameras. There is not enough time.

Now what about if there were a system to crowd source the watching process? Allow residents to watch the cameras on their phones, tablets and computers and download clips they can save and forward. I know some residents would we watching like hawks and help clean up the community.

Wi-Fi cameras would allow us to easily place them everywhere. Is there such a system off the shelf?

I know it’s big brother but it takes a big bro to keep delinquent ones in check.

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