ot. trumps thoughtprovoking tweet

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Submitted by scaredyclassic on May 28, 2018 - 7:18pm

from today...Happy Memorial Day! Those who died for our great country would be very happy and proud at how well our country is doing today. Best economy in decades, lowest unemployment numbers for Blacks and Hispanics EVER (& women in 18years), rebuilding our Military and so much more. Nice!"

actually fascinating. seems honest in a way i never hear. our military ultimately is about money, about maintaining our economic status, and we fight and die for economic dominance.

instead of criticizing his,failure to spew the normal bs,rhetoric about freedom, id prefer to hear some honest debate about why we are engaged militarily as,we are

Submitted by spdrun on May 29, 2018 - 8:54am.

It's more about politics than about status. The US is a violent culture.

They'd rather send military advisors to commit murder in coca-producing countries than go after the root of drug problems by paying for treatment and making sure that people aren't trapped in hopelessness.

They think that Iran is bad, Saudi good because politicians and media are connected to Saudi oil producers, whereas Iran had the temerity to expropriate US/British oil company assets in 1979. It's not about human rights, Saudi's record is just as vile as Iran's.

A war is a quick fix and a way to rally stupid people around the flag. "Grooooowk! HEROES! Grooooowk! Freedom!" Diplomacy is slow, hard, and often doesn't have visible results to show for years.

I'm not saying all war is unjustified, but military and violence in general are often reached for as a quick fix by US officials.

Goes for internal law enforcement as well. As a recent case in NJ shows, it's clearly better to harass people for drinking a beer on the beach, instead of living and letting live as most normal, non-theocratic countries would do. It's about control -- US governments (Fed, states, locals) know that they're powerful, so they reach for the fist even when it's often best to sit by and ignore victimless "crimes." OMG, a 20-year-old girl had a beer on the beach! The world would end if that was allowed to continue! Bring out the cops! Call the Marines! Call out the WCTU!

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 29, 2018 - 11:23am.

That is so true, spdrun.

Freedom wise, Saudi Arabia is a lot worse than Iran especially when it comes to women’s rights. But they have more money because they’re not under sanctions.

The very idea that a soldier is a hero is just a modern 20th century marketing idea for the masses. If you look at the history of warfare, soldiers were just pawns who were drafted to advance the geopolitical ambitions of leaders.

Of course, most Americans have no knowledge of history, so they fall for the marketing. Makes them feel good.

Submitted by Hobie on May 29, 2018 - 11:39am.

And our own Civil War, Brian?

The day after Memorial Day and you call soldiers 'marketing pawns'. Your arrogance and ignorance is stunning.

Your comprehension of history is simply lacking.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 29, 2018 - 12:01pm.

Some wars are justified. Some soldier should be remembered. But this is overdone like Christmas. But I like the Memorial Day sales.

Plus a soldier is not ipso dacto hero. It's just a job Maybe draftees are more heroes than those who willingly signed up for a salary and job. Honest soldiers will tell you that.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 29, 2018 - 12:14pm.

scaredyclassic wrote:

instead of criticizing his,failure to spew the normal bs,rhetoric about freedom, id prefer to hear some honest debate about why we are engaged militarily as,we are

It's about dominance of all kinds. Many politicians still believe that military dominance results in economic benefits to follow, like it did in the past.

Zbigniew Brzezinski said that in a post colonial world, wars don't work any more. Americans like to be oblivious, but they really should look at how China is investing and building commercial ties and trade dependencies around the world, displacing us.

We are spending all that money on the military for no return. After the fall of the Soviet Union, we were at peak power, but we have misused our power. Now we are declining, and bogged down in costly wars we can't get out of. How is that heroic?

Submitted by spdrun on May 29, 2018 - 1:44pm.

Calling soldiers "pawns" doesn't diminish them as people. It diminishes the government that sends them to be killed or maimed in wars that aren't about self-defense or defense of human rights...

I wish they'd play "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" instead of patriotic music every Memorial Day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZqN1glz4JY

It's closer to the reality of what happens to humans in a war. People being used, lip service given to honoring them, but in the end it's a big racket. The only real winners are Exxon, Lockheed, and Goldman Sachs.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on May 29, 2018 - 3:40pm.

spdrun wrote:

The only real winners are Exxon, Lockheed, and Goldman Sachs.

Not even that anymore. Our corporations aren’t even winning business.

With saber rattling over Iran, China is building a train to Iran. When relations mormalize, our companies will certainly not be first in line for business.

Take Panama. We interfered in their affairs out of anti communism, kidnapped their president... now that Panama is becoming a wealthy international trade center, China is building a high speed train for them, and they will benefit from increasing trade.

We are wasting billions on the military and billions taking care of soldiers who come back fucked-up (non productive people). China has an industrial policy. They are building ports, high speed train, and infrastructure around the world that better lives. And even if they give 1/2 of it for free, they have claims on future revenues and trade.

We are bogged down on ideology and our love of “badass culture” so we are at risk of losing dominance of the future. Europe invented capitalism, we perfected it, but China could one up us if we don’t pivot quick while we are ahead.

Badass culture combined with gung-ho nationalism that’s enabled by low education won’t work in the 21st century. We worship the military at the risk of our own financial well-being. Plus there are assymetric technologies that make our military much less effective.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on May 29, 2018 - 6:57pm.

maybe trump shouldve said, thank u 4 yr customer service

Submitted by moneymaker on May 29, 2018 - 7:43pm.

The best way to save is not to spend. The best way to win a war is to not start it. Kuwait was the right thing to do, although I'll admit at the time I thought it was all about oil. History is hindsight and I have to agree with Trump that the whole middle east conflict is not good for our country...

Submitted by spdrun on May 29, 2018 - 10:45pm.

What? Trump is doing his best to provoke Iran and fan the conflict...

Submitted by barnaby33 on June 4, 2018 - 8:19am.

Even worse is that war is domestic politics and wealth re-distribution that conservatives can wrap in a flag and serve to themselves and constituents in a palatable form. The state dept has presence in only a few states and is almost invisible in most of them. Every state has a few if not many military bases and young Jhonny gets to serve at one of them!
Josh

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 4, 2018 - 10:22am.

When Johnny comes marching home, we’ll drink some wine
https://youtu.be/cs6iMjv2MXg

Submitted by spdrun on June 4, 2018 - 11:37am.

If war is palatable to someone, they're suffering from bad taste. Every politician should be required to volunteer at a VA hospital as part of their service. See what war does to other humans...

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 5, 2018 - 8:14am.

‘Em diplomats are French loving, frog eating elitists who pussyfoot around, like traitor John Kerry. Only real American soldiers can fix it. Don’t mess with the USofA.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 7, 2018 - 1:57pm.

Maybe one good thing about Trump is that war is less likely now that he’s pissed off our allies. He won’t be able to build a coalition. Is he stupid enough to start a war on his own?

Trump’s strategy, if we can call it that is to conflate everything for negotiation.
If I were the allies, I would pull out of Afghanistan and let the US fight on its own. But that might create an irreparable rift. Donald Tusk’s op ed in NYT was very interesting though he want to stand by the US and protect western value, rather than engage in short term transactional benefit based decisions.

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