OT: Trump still the liberal

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Submitted by EconProf on October 31, 2020 - 3:41pm

Two plus years ago I started a post, apparently still up, saying Trump's policies achieved goals that liberals claim to want, despite his reputation as a nasty-right wing bully. I have a decidedly mixed record as a RE investor and economic forecaster, but got the Trump call right.
Because of his policies, the poor and minorities have benefited in some surprising ways. Blacks and Hispanics achieved the lowest unemployment rates in history under Trump up until COVID, thanks to GDP growth rates outpacing Obama's. The recent 33% quarterly growth rate, annualized, again surprised all the forecasters (who have constantly been surprised by their lower forecasts).
Generally speaking, the left wants to keep the economy shut down due to COVID. Easy to say when you can work from home and afford tutors and private schools. Lower income workers are mostly unable to do this and Trump wants to help them by opening up faster. Poorer students in K-12 are more hurt by the shutdown--advantage Trump. Foreign policy? Trump is getting Arab countries to line up with Israel against Iran--a decades-long goal of both parties. He got our NATO allies to do more for their own defense in place of the US military. Trump wants law and order vs. the riots that have devastated mostly minority neighborhoods and jobs. He wants charter schools for the poor who are forced to attend failing, teacher union-dominated inner-city schools. All this is why I predict the Black vote will double or triple for Trump, and the Hispanic vote may well double. We'll know in 48 hours.
Old saying about us economists: Often wrong, but never in doubt.
Another: He who lives by crystal ball must learn to eat crushed glass.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 31, 2020 - 3:54pm.

Today i changed my party affiliation from Green to Situationist.

However, due to the Spectacle, i voted D.

Submitted by sdrealtor on October 31, 2020 - 5:00pm.

Yes because the UAE was always such a threat attacking Israel

Submitted by svelte on October 31, 2020 - 8:39pm.

I think we are all very anxious about this election Econ. You and I don't agree on the best person to lead us, but we both want what's best for this great nation.

I get a little more nervous with each passing day.

More votes have been cast so far in TX and HI than those states had in total votes in 2016. The people are trying to say something. We'll soon know what that is.

Submitted by svelte on October 31, 2020 - 8:40pm.

PS - I've been scratching my head as to why Republicans are more apt to wait until election day to vote...this article explains it well and once I read it, it made sense:

https://calmatters.org/politics/post-it/...

Submitted by spdrun on October 31, 2020 - 10:45pm.

Except that Trump sabotaged the two things that would have made reopening schools and businesses possible IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY -- namely (1) a national policy requiring mask use indoors, enforced by states and local authorities and (2) a nationwide rapid ( < 1 day return time) testing and contact-tracing program. If a mask policy was impossible, at the very least, he could have requested that good citizens wear masks -- instead, he turned mask use into a partisan political fucktoy of an issue.

"Liberal" jurisdictions like NYC that are slowly but steadily reopening have not had to lock down again, whereas places that reopened too quickly have had to reimpose restrictions and even curfews (e.g. El Paso, TX).

New York has been able to loosen restrictions on a state level, only reimposing fairly mild restrictions on problem areas. We also just did something great -- we imposed an out-of-area incoming travel ban unless you have a negative COVID test no more than 72 hours prior to arrival. Hopefully, airlines will be bullied into enforcing this and it goes national.

Re: the riots -- the riots are occurring nationally under his Presidency. Shouldn't he have to own the riots themselves? He's a vocal supporter of police brutality -- the riots are a reaction to the US's long and sordid history of police brutality.

As far as Israel, Fundie Christians in the US have an unhealthy fetish for the country, while often being anti-Semitic as well. Israel shouldn't be an issue in US politics at all -- we should focus on domestic policy and not make the Middle East our problem. Israel vs Iran is more of a fundie/conservative worry than a liberal one ... true liberals are more focused on domestic policy.

BTW- Hispanic support for Trump has always existed. There are surprisingly many Latinos who drink the prosperity-gospel evangelical Christian Koolaid. He's somehow managed to convince people that he's a god fearin' baby savin' righteous man of the Lord.

Submitted by EconProf on November 1, 2020 - 11:13am.

Spdrun: What I take from your comments:

Trump did not mandate masks.
(They were unavailable during first few weeks, their efficacy was unproven initially, and Dr. Fauci initially said they were useless.)

Trump did not provide one-day results on tests.
(Technically impossible initially, and not done anywhere in the world at first. Now--results in hours.)

NYC reopening successfully.
(Worst. Deaths. Anywhere.)

Fundamentalist Christians like Israel and are also anti-semitic.
(OK, if you say so)

Submitted by spdrun on November 1, 2020 - 11:39am.

Trump actively fed red meat to the anti-maskers through the summer and did not lead by example, by wearing a mask. He held an event in the Rose Garden a month ago where only a small proportion of people were wearing a mask, and attendees were packed like sardines. If one wanted to design an outdoor superspreader event, this was almost a perfect design:

https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/10...

Trump blocked implementation of a national testing program. Running PCR in a day was never technically impossible. COVID test results are still taking multiple days to return in many states, unless exigent circumstances (hospital admission) are involved. Rapid, free testing could be implemented on a national level. Slovakia is testing their ENTIRE POPULATION in a weekend:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-healt...

(Yes, I realize that Slovakia has a smaller population, but we could easily do this state by state.)

NY *state* reopening successfully, even in areas that didn't get hit particularly hard. Yeah, NYC got hit hard initially. Had there been Federal/CDC guidance on mask use and travel quarantine back in February, this would have been less of an issue. It didn't help that the administration gave people 2-3 days in March to return from hotspots in Europe. The lines for immigration and customs at Kennedy in mid-March were likely a major infection source -- many of the worst-hit areas were areas near airports where workers tended to live, not more densely-populated parts of the city like Manhattan:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...
https://www.adn.com/opinions/national-op...

Israel is not our problem. Nor is Saudi, nor Iraq, nor Kuwait, nor anywhere else in the Middle East. Let them fight to exhaustion, why is it worth our money to save people who don't want to be saved? There's really one product that we need from the Middle East, and with local oil production, local natural gas production, nuclear power, and renewables, we really don't need it as an energy source long term.

I get it ... some people may think that Trump did a good job and vote for him, but this perception is not grounded in objective reality or actual science. There's also more to being a "liberal" than jobs and the economy.

What about environmental policy? Trump doesn't have a stellar record there. He has a history of denying established scientific knowledge.

What about infrastructure and public transit? Trump's budget proposals have heavily favored roads and air travel, not over forms of transit.

What about education? Trump is known for his snipes and railing against university-educated elites, and his hiring of people who don't have the best scientific and intellectual qualifications.

What about healthcare? Trump rails against "Obamacare" without a workable plan to replace it with something better.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on November 1, 2020 - 12:15pm.

To be evangelical is absolutely 100 % bound up with being anti jewish

"That problem begins with the Christian need to convert the Jews: it’s a fierce, enduring, and unreciprocated desire.

Jewish identity is not tied up in converting the Christians the way that Christian identity is defined by what it considers Jews’ current refusal, but eventual acceptance, of Jesus as Christ and Lord. Christian exegetes have made it a central feature of their eschatology (what happens at the End Times), that the Jews will convert to Jesus at the very End, based on a (mis)reading of the gospel of Paul (Romans 11:25f)."

Evangelicalism is by definition an irritating, narcissistic religion for assholes who think they know whats best for others .

I mean for real, think on it...is it not arrogant to walk around all day to think you have uncovered the secret to eternal life and all the dopes need to be made members of your own cultish insight or be doomed to hell forever? What kind of decent thoughtful person could actually sincerely hold such a thought?

I assume modt evangelicals grow out of it or dont actually believe it at some point, um and just do it all for the sovial support or to control others, once they grow up.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on November 1, 2020 - 12:19pm.

Maybe the only point of religion is to either appease or piss off ones parents.

Submitted by svelte on November 1, 2020 - 8:00pm.

scaredyclassic wrote:
Maybe the only point of religion is to either appease or piss off ones parents.

Another scaredy classic!

Submitted by scaredyclassic on November 1, 2020 - 9:25pm.

Why did i hate judaism?
To piss off my folks.
Why did i hate christianity?
To appease them.
Why did i become a buddhist?
Because it helped me not want to appease or piss them off.

Submitted by Reality on November 2, 2020 - 12:16am.

spdrun wrote:
Except that Trump sabotaged the two things that would have made reopening schools and businesses possible IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY -- namely (1) a national policy requiring mask use indoors, enforced by states and local authorities and (2) a nationwide rapid ( < 1 day return time) testing and contact-tracing program. If a mask policy was impossible, at the very least, he could have requested that good citizens wear masks -- instead, he turned mask use into a partisan political fucktoy of an issue.

I only disagree on the national mask mandate, but the rest +1000.

We didn't need a mask mandate but did need a little leadership.

There is a group of Trump supporters that meet at the corner of Pomerado and Twin Peaks in Poway every Sunday morning. There's a smaller anti Trump (now Biden) group that also shows up. Today the Trump group was much larger than normal, as would be expected.

Being stopped at the intersection a short time today I noticed (not surprisingly) consistent mask wearing from the Biden folks and the opposite from the Trump folks.

Submitted by svelte on November 2, 2020 - 6:31am.

Reality wrote:

Being stopped at the intersection a short time today I noticed (not surprisingly) consistent mask wearing from the Biden folks and the opposite from the Trump folks.

It's too bad that mask wearing was made into a political statement, instead of a temporary safety step and common courtesy.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on November 2, 2020 - 8:02am.

Maybe it was because asians wore masks and americans dislike asian culture.

Its like being asked to use chopsticks. People found it a foreign unamerican practice

Submitted by spdrun on November 2, 2020 - 9:42am.

Couldn't they wear MAGA-masks?

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