ot; trayvon martin

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Submitted by scaredyclassic on July 16, 2013 - 7:07am

guns. self-defense. 2nd am. neighborhood watch, guns make us safer, racial profiling.

I think I could sum up the piggingtonian positions, but not sure on this case...

and etc...

as michael moore said, "if trayvon martin had been white and george zimmerman had been black--do I even need to finish that sentence?"

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 22, 2013 - 12:23pm.

livinincali wrote:
The Oklahoma case just keeps getting better. I can't wait to see excuses from the race baiters on this one.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/21/hate-them-heres-what-teen-accused-of-murdering-australian-student-had-to-say-about-white-people-guns-and-killing-on-twitter/

The laws don't work because there is no mandatory registration and tracking of guns to people who own them, and only to people who own them.

Laws that deal with guns around the edges only allow each side to claim something is being done. But if you want results you have to look at what works. Unfortunately, politics are not so practical.

Submitted by CA renter on August 22, 2013 - 5:35pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
livinincali wrote:
The Oklahoma case just keeps getting better. I can't wait to see excuses from the race baiters on this one.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/21/hate-them-heres-what-teen-accused-of-murdering-australian-student-had-to-say-about-white-people-guns-and-killing-on-twitter/

The laws don't work because there is no mandatory registration and tracking of guns to people who own them, and only to people who own them.

Laws that deal with guns around the edges only allow each side to claim something is being done. But if you want results you have to look at what works. Unfortunately, politics are not so practical.

FIH,

Name ONE instance in which gun registration prevented a death. Just one.

Submitted by CA renter on August 22, 2013 - 5:48pm.

livinincali wrote:
The Oklahoma case just keeps getting better. I can't wait to see excuses from the race baiters on this one.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/08/21/hate-them-heres-what-teen-accused-of-murdering-australian-student-had-to-say-about-white-people-guns-and-killing-on-twitter/

You'll hear nothing about this case from the race baiters. It doesn't fit their BS agenda.

You can also be sure that this crime will not be considered a "hate crime." Apparently, only white people are capable of committing hate crimes. I hate how they try to limit that term, anyway; all violent crimes against innocent people are "hate crimes" in my book.

Submitted by SD Realtor on August 22, 2013 - 9:13pm.

Agree 100% CAR.

****************
I don't think blacks who make derogatory comments about whites are racist.

To me. racism implies some kind of moral superiority.

Fantastic. So I can use the n-word on a black person and if I didn't imply moral superiority I am not a racist?

Sorry I do not agree. Racism takes many forms that are rooted in fear, ignorance, and hatred among other things. Racism is learned. It is copied from others who you associate with. It is passed on from parents to children. It is embedded in all of our cultures. It is far more about those things then it is about any moral superiority. Moral superiority is simply another by-product of those things above just like racism is.

Submitted by CA renter on August 22, 2013 - 10:35pm.

I'm going to go waaaay out on a limb here and open myself up to lots of flamage, but I don't think racism is necessarily taught at all. IMHO, racism *can* be taught, but it can also come about as the result of personal experience with people from other races.

If a white man was mugged by black men on three occasions (but never by a white man, even though he lives in a predominantly white neighborhood), I'm willing to bet he would end up with "racist" tendencies. A general dislike of certain (perhaps violent, vulgar, or otherwise offensive) behaviors found in other cultures that are linked to race might also make one perceive that race in a different way...and feel some disdain for them, generally.

This is why, if people are serious about reducing or eliminating racism, it's imperative that leaders of the black community work toward reducing those behaviors among their "youth" that makes others view them in such a negative way. It's time for a more honest understanding of where "racism" comes from.

Submitted by livinincali on August 23, 2013 - 6:53am.

CA renter wrote:

If a white man was mugged by black men on three occasions (but never by a white man, even though he lives in a predominantly white neighborhood), I'm willing to bet he would end up with "racist" tendencies. A general dislike of certain (perhaps violent, vulgar, or otherwise offensive) behaviors found in other cultures that are linked to race might also make one perceive that race in a different way...and feel some disdain for them, generally.

I'd probably view this case as a stereotype initially. Maybe stereotypes turn into racism at some point. A young male middle eastern looking traveler gets on my plane by himself, I'm probably somewhat suspicious. I have good reason to be because of the historical evidence on who tends to hijack planes. Now if I decide that all Middle Eastern people are evil terrorists because a small majority are and have committed terrible crimes then I've probably moved into the realm of a racist.

It's pretty clear this kid hated white people but you'll probably never know if it was from bad experiences with white people or from some kind of learned behavior. You can't necessarily fix the bad experiences, some people are going to be racist and he might have come across some of those people. You can probably fix the learned distrust and negative view of white people in the black community. I just don't think the leaders of black community are ready for reconciliation of past wrongs yet.

Eventually the black community is going to have to fix itself if it wants to get out of it's impoverished state. Nobody is going to do it for them and it's not going to be easy. As long as they'll willing to rely on excuses of racism rather than doing the hard work it will continue to be the same.

Submitted by SD Realtor on August 23, 2013 - 7:52am.

Great posts CAR and livin. I agree 100%. As tragic as the Oklahoma shooting is, it is an opportunity for black leaders to rally and be public about condemnation of this behavior. A believe Jesse Jackson made a statement about his sorry for the victims family. However here is where there should be rallies the size of the Trayvon rallies condemning this behavior and as you both pointed out, trying to figure out a way to change things. I understand it is very much an uphill battle for black leadership. There are lots of white racists around. There is history to deal with. There are huge swaths of poverty through the black community. The thug lifestyle seems to be celebrated through black and white races. It sucks and is hard but being silent on the issue will not help promote change.

Oh and by the way.... another beating... WWII vet as well.

http://www.kxly.com/news/spokane-news/el...

Submitted by outtamojo on August 23, 2013 - 9:50am.

Not on any headlines anywhere near SD or the national media, but the Oakland publics schools and a few others have made many attempts to straighten out the problems in the black community. The few times they've made headlines the special programs have been met with derision and the "why are THEY getting special treatment attitude" and the "just treating them that way is racist in itself" circular argument.

A few...
http://www.sfgate.com/education/article/...

http://www.sfchronicle.com/local/bayarea...

Submitted by outtamojo on August 23, 2013 - 12:02pm.

CA renter wrote:
I'm going to go waaaay out on a limb here and open myself up to lots of flamage, but I don't think racism is necessarily taught at all. IMHO, racism *can* be taught, but it can also come about as the result of personal experience with people from other races.

If a white man was mugged by black men on three occasions (but never by a white man, even though he lives in a predominantly white neighborhood), I'm willing to bet he would end up with "racist" tendencies. A general dislike of certain (perhaps violent, vulgar, or otherwise offensive) behaviors found in other cultures that are linked to race might also make one perceive that race in a different way...and feel some disdain for them, generally.

This is why, if people are serious about reducing or eliminating racism, it's imperative that leaders of the black community work toward reducing those behaviors among their "youth" that makes others view them in such a negative way. It's time for a more honest understanding of where "racism" comes from.

Lol yur limb is but a twig imo. Here's a limb for you- in this nation,the beleaguered so called white male has created and refined arguably the best place in the world for anyone of any color,sex or creed to live. The touchiness they feel whenever they are broadly classified or associated with racism is the same feeling the black kids get when they walk into trendy neighborhoods.

Submitted by SD Realtor on August 23, 2013 - 12:37pm.

That is what makes it such a challenge. My issue is not that black people have to live and deal with the racism they face daily. I agree it is omnipresent and needs to be eliminated and dealt with. My issue is that this racism is not an excuse to go beat or kill white people. That black community leaders do not speak out against that when these events occur. That the death of Trayvon sparked a media event, comments from our president and others such as Eric Holder. Yet in this case all we got was a tweet from Jesse Jackson expressing sorrow for the victims family. That is it.

I am not excusing or dismissing the racism that exists against black people or the scar that it leaves on every black person that lives in this country. It is very real.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on August 23, 2013 - 6:29pm.

My experience is that guys who look like Bob Filner are dirty old men.

Would I be justified in treating people who have that "look" and demeanor the same way?

Submitted by NotCranky on August 23, 2013 - 10:02pm.

I think Obama is going to be forced to speak to the violence by these young kids that are in the limelight now, in the last month or so, and their like. I can't wait. Silence will make it look like he finds it tolerable.

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