ot; trayvon martin

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Submitted by scaredyclassic on July 16, 2013 - 7:07am

guns. self-defense. 2nd am. neighborhood watch, guns make us safer, racial profiling.

I think I could sum up the piggingtonian positions, but not sure on this case...

and etc...

as michael moore said, "if trayvon martin had been white and george zimmerman had been black--do I even need to finish that sentence?"

Submitted by scaredyclassic on July 18, 2013 - 2:49pm.

I'm not judging your mothers intuition when used in your life. Not at all.

I am judging the use of such intuition when deciding facts at trial.

To say one is being fair is at the very least to acknowledge the potential for bias in having such intuitions creep into ones judgment.

We all come with preconceptions. It is so difficult to start with a clean slate.

Guns, fear, prejudice, intuition, testosterone, protecting turf and especially HOAs --- a toxic combo!

Submitted by ctr70 on July 18, 2013 - 4:47pm.

First of all, the liberal media handling of this was a total disgrace assuming guilt before GZ had his trail & whipping up all this emotion. Also, Obama's comment that if he had a son he would look like TM alluded to a assumption of GZ guilt before he had his trial and all the facts came in. Talk about jumping to conclusions, and this is the president of the U.S.! Way to be a leader and divide the country Barack!

The justice system in America works on EVIDENCE not EMOTION and SPECULATION. All this knee jerk liberal horseshit that "if TM was white it wouldn't have happened" or this or that...is all BS speculation. There is NO evidence to support any of that crap. All that matters in the end is if the jury thought GZ acted in self-defense. That is IT. That is ALL that matters. None of this conjecture garbage about racial profiling this or that. The jury members sat in that courtroom through every bit of that trial, the prosecution helped pick them, and they thought long and hard and made a decision BASED ON THE EVIDENCE. End of story.

Submitted by ctr70 on July 18, 2013 - 5:02pm.

And about all this nonsense about "we need a discussion on race in this country"...what another giant load of liberal drivel! The only discussion that needs to happen is within the black community. 90% of black murders victims are committed by other blacks. Blacks are 13% of the U.S. population but commit 50%+ of the murders in the U.S. The black arrest rate for most offenses—including robbery, aggravated assault and property crimes—is typically two to three times their representation in the population. The George Zimmerman's of the world are not the problem folks!

This case is just a giant smoke screen for Al Sharpton, NAACP and the liberal media once again to distract everyone from the real issue, which is personal responsibility in the black community. Why isn't the NAACP "demonstrating" when thousands of blacks get gunned down by other blacks every year in U.S. cities? 75% of black households are fatherless, why isn't the NAACP and AL Sharpton talking about that? If your going to make babies how about sticking around and raising the kids? Instead of this endless shifting the blame off yourself on to "white racism" or the "American criminal justice system".

Civil-rights leaders today choose to keep the focus on white racism instead of personal responsibility, but their predecessors knew better. A quote from MLK below:

"Do you know that Negroes are 10 percent of the population of St. Louis and are responsible for 58% of its crimes? We've got to face that. And we've got to do something about our moral standards," Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. told a congregation in 1961
"We know that there are many things wrong in the white world, but there are many things wrong in the black world, too. We can't keep on blaming the white man. There are things we must do for ourselves."

Submitted by NotCranky on July 18, 2013 - 5:47pm.

Scaredy, when did Zimmerman corner Trayvon and start screaming at him for explanations? Who was a witness to that? Where was it recorded. It wasn't and it isn't even a likely scenario. It's not a comparison at all.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on July 18, 2013 - 7:25pm.

Making babies is incidental and accidental to having sex.

Want lower pregnancy rates? Give out free birth control, paid for by the government at every convenience store, and free abortion clinics, no questions asked in every community That cost could be a fraction of the social costs we pay for today.

Use scientific facts and do what works, or let feelings get in the way?

Submitted by SD Realtor on July 18, 2013 - 7:51pm.

I think Charles Barkley nailed it regarding this case.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2...

Submitted by scaredyclassic on July 18, 2013 - 8:10pm.

I concur with Barkley. Maybe he should be ambassador to north Korea.

Submitted by outtamojo on July 18, 2013 - 8:12pm.

I bet Barkely woulda beat Zimmerman's @ss too.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on July 18, 2013 - 8:12pm.

[ quote=Blogstar]Scaredy, when did Zimmerman corner Trayvon and start screaming at him for explanations? Who was a witness to that? Where was it recorded. It wasn't and it isn't even a likely scenario. It's not a comparison at all.[/quote]

Ok then. Just a black male adult coming up into the face if a white teen. White teen justified in feeling threatened in a bad drug infested neighborhood when questioned what he's doing here?

Submitted by NotCranky on July 18, 2013 - 8:26pm.

SD Realtor wrote:
I think Charles Barkley nailed it regarding this case.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/07/18/charles_barkley_on_zimmerman_trial_i_agree_with_the_verdict.html

I always have like Charles, but what Charles didn't say is that if he were in the same situation he probably would have profiled Trayvon too. I think under some circumstances he would say that but this is a very bad one to do that in.

It's almost like people expect everyone not to profile some one as criminal once it is noticed that they are black ...that's pretty stupid. What was Zimmerman supposed to do ..."hmmm he's black, I better not suspect him anymore despite all these robberies and shit ". That sounds like the kind of leeway people expect.

Submitted by svelte on July 18, 2013 - 8:15pm.

squat300 wrote:

Guns, fear, prejudice, intuition, testosterone, protecting turf and especially HOAs --- a toxic combo!

Take the capital "A" out of that sentence and it sounds like what a gang member's weekend would be like, from what I read. :-)

Submitted by scaredyclassic on July 18, 2013 - 8:15pm.

ctr70 wrote:
First of all, the liberal media handling of this was a total disgrace assuming guilt before GZ had his trail & whipping up all this emotion. Also, Obama's comment that if he had a son he would look like TM alluded to a assumption of GZ guilt before he had his trial and all the facts came in. Talk about jumping to conclusions, and this is the president of the U.S.! Way to be a leader and divide the country Barack!

The justice system in America works on EVIDENCE not EMOTION and SPECULATION. All this knee jerk liberal horseshit that "if TM was white it wouldn't have happened" or this or that...is all BS speculation. There is NO evidence to support any of that crap. All that matters in the end is if the jury thought GZ acted in self-defense. That is IT. That is ALL that matters. None of this conjecture garbage about racial profiling this or that. The jury members sat in that courtroom through every bit of that trial, the prosecution helped pick them, and they thought long and hard and made a decision BASED ON THE EVIDENCE. End of story.

On the one hand you're right. Guilt or innocence are really meaningless without a verdict. The verdict alone matters.

On the other hand, there's got to be more to the discussion. If my kid were writing a report on to kill a mockingbird, and he wrote jury found him guilty end of story, I might send it back for a rewrite.

Submitted by NotCranky on July 18, 2013 - 8:17pm.

squat300 wrote:
[ quote=Blogstar]Scaredy, when did Zimmerman corner Trayvon and start screaming at him for explanations? Who was a witness to that? Where was it recorded. It wasn't and it isn't even a likely scenario. It's not a comparison at all.

Ok then. Just a black male adult coming up into the face if a white teen. White teen justified in feeling threatened in a bad drug infested neighborhood when questioned what he's doing here?[/quote]

Submitted by ctr70 on July 18, 2013 - 8:18pm.

The other thing is the racial make up of this country has changed dramatically over the past 20,30, 40+ years. But the old relics and dinosaurs of the civil rights past like Sharpton, Jackson, NAACP, liberal media haven't realized this. They still see the U.S. in the lens of a 1950's white majority vs. a black minority and try to jump on and exploit any conflict issues that involve whites & blacks (Duke Lacrosse incident, Zimmerman, etc..). The fact is blacks aren't even the largest minority anymore. Hispanics are 18%, blacks 13% and Asians 6% of the population. Whites are now only a little over 60% of the U.S. population and that continues to change rapidly. We also have a black president (or should I say "white-black") and a black attorney general.

Submitted by NotCranky on July 18, 2013 - 8:24pm.

Blogstar wrote:
squat300 wrote:
[ quote=Blogstar]Scaredy, when did Zimmerman corner Trayvon and start screaming at him for explanations? Who was a witness to that? Where was it recorded. It wasn't and it isn't even a likely scenario. It's not a comparison at all.

Ok then. Just a black male adult coming up into the face if a white teen. White teen justified in feeling threatened in a bad drug infested neighborhood when questioned what he's doing here?

[/quote]

Not pertinent your honor. I am not sure what the person is justified in feeling or how it has anything to do with this case. But he is not justified in trying to beat the hell out of the other man. As a teenager I would try to keep a distance if this imposing person was unreasonable, run if I had to.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on July 18, 2013 - 9:19pm.

ctr, the mainstream media is not liberal. It's mainstream. And it passes judgement as it always has. and I think it reflects mainstream values.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on July 18, 2013 - 9:37pm.

squat300 wrote:

We all come with preconceptions. It is so difficult to start with a clean slate.

Some would argue that " you dress like a thug, act like thug, you're likely a thug." Change your culture if you don't want to be profiled.

In the same vein, when I think of the South, something makes my skin crawl. The whole culture, language and attitude give me bad vibes. All the talk about guns, the confederate flag, congressional district gerrymandering make it sound like racist heaven.

Submitted by mike92104 on July 18, 2013 - 9:47pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
ctr, the mainstream media is not liberal. It's mainstream. And it passes judgement as it always has. and I think it reflects mainstream values.

I think it's actually fairly liberal, but not because of some grand conspiracy. I think it's typically just because that industry tends to draw young idealists to it. Unfortunately as a whole, the media industry has simply forgotten how to provide facts without opinion.

Submitted by mike92104 on July 18, 2013 - 9:54pm.

i too think Zimmerman profiled Martin, but not racially. I think any young man wandering around the neighborhood in the rain at 2am is odd and suspicious.

I tend to be up pretty late, and I was sitting on my porch around 1 am having a smoke when a young black kid rode by on a skateboard. I thought it was off he was out so late, but didn't think anything about it UNTIL he stopped and started to look in someones car window. It happened to be a house who's car ha been broken into earlier that week. At that point I called the cops. From all the transcripts I have seen, this was very similar to the Zimmerman deal. Now let's see who calls me a racist.

Submitted by njtosd on July 18, 2013 - 11:25pm.

mike92104 wrote:
Unfortunately as a whole, the media industry has simply forgotten how to provide facts without opinion.

Agree whole heartedly.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on July 19, 2013 - 6:55am.

if you can stand your ground to shoot someone, cant you stand your ground to punch them?

perhaps its time to get some rules for neighborhood watch groups. like, maybe they should just "watch" and call the cops, and not follow people around with guns.

if a stranger confronts you on the street in an angry or accusatory manner, it's probably often best to run like hell or hit them as hard as you can first.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on July 19, 2013 - 7:25am.

the jury speaks to the Onion:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/in-our-...

Submitted by NotCranky on July 19, 2013 - 8:02am.

Why didn't you just say you don't like the stand your ground law and guns,scaredy? Instead of trolling with all this crap about race and stating obviously incorrect scenarios in reference to George Zimmerman? For all practical purposes George Zimmerman didn't even have a gun until he was being pounded and could not get the help he was yelling for, and his assailant did not get off of him even at the threat of a call to 911 by a third party.

How do you feel about stand your ground in this case, and the thousands of cases like it, where the assailant actually doesn't care a damn about a persons life. If her story is true, I wish she would have shot the guy ( except for that it was in a park where kids were at). Very easy to see that the guy could have killed her. Happens all the time. Would he have done it if the victim was a black lesbian instead of white?

http://www.towleroad.com/2013/03/mesquit...

I remember a story from Florida many years back where this young black woman got in a fender bender on a freeway bridge and a large crowd gathered around while a bunch of people harassed , physically intimidated and taunted her until trying to get away from them she went over a railing to her death. Yeah, I wished she would have shot one of them.

Submitted by no_such_reality on July 19, 2013 - 8:41am.

squat300 wrote:

Blogstar wrote:
Scaredy, when did Zimmerman corner Trayvon and start screaming at him for explanations? Who was a witness to that? Where was it recorded. It wasn't and it isn't even a likely scenario. It's not a comparison at all.

Ok then. Just a black male adult coming up into the face if a white teen. White teen justified in feeling threatened in a bad drug infested neighborhood when questioned what he's doing here?

Should the white teen be alert? Yes.

Should the white teen be concerned this could turn out really badly? Yes.

Should the white teen feel endanger for his life? No. Not yet.

Should the white teen strike first and start an assault? No.

Standing your ground means you don't need to run away from trouble, it also doesn't give you carte blanche to strike first.

Someone figuratively getting in your face and asking what you're doing ISN'T justification to go to force.

I thought he MIGHT hit me and he was on top and hitting me are two very different things.

Submitted by zk on July 19, 2013 - 9:33am.

squat300 wrote:
the jury speaks to the Onion:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/in-our-defense-these-were-some-pretty-fuckedup-law,33126/

Wow. The best editorial I've seen on this case comes from the Onion.

I only read the Onion occasionally, and usually for its humor. I didn't know they did editorials (of their own variety). Can regular readers tell me if they have this kind of editorial regularly? Not parodies of newspaper editorials, but actual, meaningful opinions on issues, such as this piece was.

Submitted by CardiffBaseball on July 19, 2013 - 9:37am.

I would say this is a case where some white teens were messing around at 3:30 AM, a black man armed himself went outside and confronted them.

According to him, one charged and he shot him twice, the jury agreed with his team and he was acquitted. It wasn't in Florida but that shouldn't matter, I would assume most in our gun culture would clearly take the side of the shooter.

http://rochester.ynn.com/content/top_sto...

Submitted by Jazzman on July 19, 2013 - 10:34am.

Don't confront people bigger than you especially if you think they may have criminal intent. That's what the police are for. Then you won't need to carry a firearm. Look where it leads.

Submitted by jstoesz on July 19, 2013 - 12:19pm.

I agree with much of what has been said on both sides of the issue. There is not really a good answer. At the end of the day, sometimes life just sucks, and life isn't fair. Sometimes some pretty serious stuff just happens.

One thought though. Calling the police usually amounts to just about nothing. I have first hand experience in multiple instances regarding theft of the police's, either unwillingness or understaffed-ness to do anything at all. Both in CA and in MN. They tend to view the victim of a robbery as just a pain in their butt. A report to write for the stats that just goes down the memory hole.

Submitted by UCGal on July 19, 2013 - 12:22pm.

mike92104 wrote:
i too think Zimmerman profiled Martin, but not racially. I think any young man wandering around the neighborhood in the rain at 2am is odd and suspicious.

How about a young man walking home from 7/11 at 7pm. (not 2am).
That's the actual timeline.

Submitted by SK in CV on July 19, 2013 - 12:34pm.

UCGal wrote:
mike92104 wrote:
i too think Zimmerman profiled Martin, but not racially. I think any young man wandering around the neighborhood in the rain at 2am is odd and suspicious.

How about a young man walking home from 7/11 at 7pm. (not 2am).
That's the actual timeline.

yeah, but he was dressed like a thug, wearing a hoodie and stuff.

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