ot; things i believe in...

User Forum Topic
Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 4, 2014 - 8:42am

1. fish oil
2. the importance of your father.
3. saving money.
4. hmmm...running out of things....

Submitted by FlyerInHi on February 4, 2014 - 2:04pm.

I was beginning to believe what you advocated before. A six pack and a strong back are the solutions to many of life's problems.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 4, 2014 - 6:52pm.

the general decay of the body make s it somewhat ridiculous to believe in.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on February 5, 2014 - 1:04am.

Isn't fish oil a futile attempt to arrest the decay of the body?

Let me think of something permanent to believe in....

Submitted by CA renter on February 5, 2014 - 1:53am.

Goes with #3, but staying out of debt is a big one, too.

Debt kills dreams. It causes family and social strife. It causes stress which can lead to physical, mental, and emotional problems.

But we are told, every day, that we should go into debt for everything: houses, cars, educations, vacations, healthcare, new business ventures, etc. This is one of my biggest pet peeves with the message being sent to all of the gullible people of the world.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 5, 2014 - 8:34am.

debt des kill dreams, but perhaps the dreams deserved to die anyway.

the general chat among debtoverloaded law students and law grads is IBR (income based repayment). im not clear on the details, but basically you pay what you can, not much, based on your income, the gov pretends the debt is being serviced, the ponzi scheme continues, you get the debt forgiven after a lengthy period of regular payments, but get hit with a "tax bomb" of forgiveness income at the end. all the law students at www.jdunderground.com seem to believe that the law will change and it wont be taxable in the distant future.

my point being, if you eschew debt, or go too contrarian, you may miss out on some opportunities to pig out on other people's money.

.9 percent/7 year financing on a year end Mini, 19,700$ new, witha free extended maintenance (7 years)...kind a feel like a sucker not taking on the debt in a way. couldve paid cash, but why?

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 5, 2014 - 8:27am.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Isn't fish oil a futile attempt to arrest the decay of the body?

Let me think of something permanent to believe in....

youre right. but i believe that it is amagical elixir.

Submitted by UCGal on February 5, 2014 - 8:57am.

I like this list.

I agree with CAR that saving money/staying out of debt are related. And you have to figure out what you're going to do when your pile of money gets big enough. Do you just keep accumulating? Do you start to spend it?

I'm looking for that sweet spot, personally. In the meantime, I'm spending as little as possible and saving the rest. And hoping the fish oil gives me the health benefits (and brain benefits) to live long enough to enjoy the pile of money I'm saving.

Submitted by dumbrenter on February 5, 2014 - 9:47am.

what use is all the money saved in youthful years to spend in your old age when your bones are weak, you cannot get any action due to biological limitations and you wet yourself every few hours?

This whole thing seems inverted. Shouldn't we be taking on as much debt and focus on spending that in our youthful years and then work hard in old age to pay for it?
A vacation to Cabo in your 30's is much more fun than going there in your 70's.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on February 5, 2014 - 10:33am.

Debts are society's savings.

What happens if everyone saves and there are no debts to invest in? That's the not so tiny paradox of thrift.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on February 5, 2014 - 10:43am.

Is there anything universal and permanent worth believing in?

My beliefs are temporary. I believe in what works in a certain context. But when the facts change, I change my mind.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 5, 2014 - 11:07am.

OK you're right. Screw saving money. But dammit I still believe in fish oil. I know there are some studies out there that say it's not a panacea but fucjit. I believe.

Submitted by spdrun on February 5, 2014 - 11:10am.

What happens if everyone saves and there are no debts to invest in? That's the not so tiny paradox of thrift.

Then G-d fucking forbid, people would need to go to work in a productive industry, invest in a small business, or provide a useful service. Most people will still exchange money for goods or services they can't provide themselves since they're not 1880s pioneers.

There would still be short-term debt (0% interest between providing a good or service and being paid) of course.

Housing would still be a decent investment, since not everyone would want to buy a house (especially if it would require actual savings), BTW.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 5, 2014 - 11:09am.

We believe in saying grace before dinner even though none of us believe in G-d.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 5, 2014 - 11:12am.

I believe in skepticism.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 5, 2014 - 11:13am.

I believe in the restorative power of sleep.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 5, 2014 - 11:14am.

I actually believe in miracles.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on February 5, 2014 - 11:19am.

I believe that humans will always be searching for the fountain of youth. The fight for survival.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on February 5, 2014 - 11:49am.

Spd, what you're describing is kind of the situation we have now. People are having to buy assets, such as real estate and stocks, because money itself is not a good investment. The reason they are not investing in factories and other productive uses is because there is no demand. There is demand for infrastructure, but the system to build is dysfunctional.

You can't bitch about debt in general and expect a return on your money. Money is just a tool to facilitate transactions, but somehow we expect it to provide us a positive return without us doing any work.

Ideally, you want to be part of a minority of savers while everybody else gets into debt. And that would make you a capitalist.

Submitted by zk on February 5, 2014 - 11:49am.

I believe in evolutionary psychology.

There are some things that I think should be included in evolutionary psychology but (as far as I know) aren't.

From what I've read, some personality trait differences between individuals are, in evolutionary psychology, attributed to either a) variance around an optimum or b) adaptation to enhance chances of survival/gene passage for an individual.

It seems to me that they could also have evolved in order to enhance chances of survival of a tribe as a whole.

A few examples:

Some people are naturally late to sleep late to rise. Some are early to bed early to rise. This mixture allows there to be some number of people awake and alert and on the watch for predators/enemies/lightning storms/whatever.

Some people are naturally adventure seeking. They're not content to sit around the fire. These people pushed the tribe to new areas and perhaps found additional resources before it was too late. But you can't have everybody in a tribe with that trait, because, among other things, that would reduce the social cohesiveness of the group. Also, you need a large percentage of people who are content to hunt and gather.

Some people are natural raconteurs. This helps the morale and social cohesiveness of the group. Somehow it seems that too many of this type wouldn't work. Perhaps the audience wouldn't be so captivated (and hence morale so improved) if it was so common.

Some percentage of people are leaders, others followers. Others lone wolves. This has obvious advantages.

Perhaps nature selected whole tribes for the correct percentage of different personality traits. You have these different personality traits distributed in certain percentages such that the odds of survival of the tribe as a whole are maximized. Tribes that had too many or too few of certain types didn't make it. And that genetic legacy lives on today.

That's what I believe, anyway.

Submitted by spdrun on February 5, 2014 - 12:08pm.

No, FlyerInHI: ideally, I'd rather be part of a community where average savings rates are higher than they are now. Makes it a lot more certain that I'd get paid.

People with high debt loads are less psychologically willing to pay quickly, and anyway, I'm not guaranteed to be first in line for payment.

Submitted by NotCranky on February 5, 2014 - 12:33pm.

Interesting stuff, ZK. So it literally " takes all kinds". A lot of dominant personality traits don't make sense at face value, don't appear to be too functional, maybe even seem to bring about representations of poor examples of living in modern times, but might have this evolutionary underpinning.

Not sure I am a believer in the power of that on personality over childhood experiences, but it is interesting...very interesting.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on February 5, 2014 - 12:52pm.

Spd, good point. Ideally, all else being equal, populations in developed economies should be saving more to lend to developing economies where there is more demand.

Problem is it doesn't work that way because of political risks so investors will seek safe heavens. Of course, you also have herd mentality and animal spirits which cause places like NYC and London to become increasingly expensive.

Submitted by CA renter on February 6, 2014 - 2:21am.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Spd, what you're describing is kind of the situation we have now. People are having to buy assets, such as real estate and stocks, because money itself is not a good investment. The reason they are not investing in factories and other productive uses is because there is no demand. There is demand for infrastructure, but the system to build is dysfunctional.

You can't bitch about debt in general and expect a return on your money. Money is just a tool to facilitate transactions, but somehow we expect it to provide us a positive return without us doing any work.

Ideally, you want to be part of a minority of savers while everybody else gets into debt. And that would make you a capitalist.

If labor, rather than capital, were to reap the lion's share of the surplus value, then people would be more incentivized to work instead of speculate. I hardly think that's a bad thing.

As it stands, workers are looked down upon. Note all the antipathy toward labor, while the capitalist charlatans are treated as though they are gods who are deserving of every penny they strip from the productive economy. Something is very wrong when a society views productive labor as something beneath capital, but that is the system as it exists today. Many of us participate in this game because it is the only way to get ahead and survive. It doesn't mean we approve of it.

Submitted by CA renter on February 6, 2014 - 2:23am.

zk wrote:
I believe in evolutionary psychology.

There are some things that I think should be included in evolutionary psychology but (as far as I know) aren't.

From what I've read, some personality trait differences between individuals are, in evolutionary psychology, attributed to either a) variance around an optimum or b) adaptation to enhance chances of survival/gene passage for an individual.

It seems to me that they could also have evolved in order to enhance chances of survival of a tribe as a whole.

A few examples:

Some people are naturally late to sleep late to rise. Some are early to bed early to rise. This mixture allows there to be some number of people awake and alert and on the watch for predators/enemies/lightning storms/whatever.

Some people are naturally adventure seeking. They're not content to sit around the fire. These people pushed the tribe to new areas and perhaps found additional resources before it was too late. But you can't have everybody in a tribe with that trait, because, among other things, that would reduce the social cohesiveness of the group. Also, you need a large percentage of people who are content to hunt and gather.

Some people are natural raconteurs. This helps the morale and social cohesiveness of the group. Somehow it seems that too many of this type wouldn't work. Perhaps the audience wouldn't be so captivated (and hence morale so improved) if it was so common.

Some percentage of people are leaders, others followers. Others lone wolves. This has obvious advantages.

Perhaps nature selected whole tribes for the correct percentage of different personality traits. You have these different personality traits distributed in certain percentages such that the odds of survival of the tribe as a whole are maximized. Tribes that had too many or too few of certain types didn't make it. And that genetic legacy lives on today.

That's what I believe, anyway.

Totally agree with this. Specialization and the division of labor are the keys to survival as a group.

Submitted by CA renter on February 6, 2014 - 2:27am.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Spd, good point. Ideally, all else being equal, populations in developed economies should be saving more to lend to developing economies where there is more demand.

Problem is it doesn't work that way because of political risks so investors will seek safe heavens. Of course, you also have herd mentality and animal spirits which cause places like NYC and London to become increasingly expensive.

People aren't investing in riskier markets and more productive activities because the risk premium has been artificially suppressed. Because of this, investors are forced to speculate on price changes of existing assets because it's safer than taking a risk on more productive (but riskier) investments.

Submitted by flyer on February 6, 2014 - 3:25am.

I believe in having dreams and living your dreams.

As an example, we started privately investing in films a few years ago, primarily because my wife happened to know someone who had written a little vampire story that ended up becoming a worldwide phenom.

Several "advisors" told us not to do it--but it was one of our "dreams," so, very long story short--we did it, and many projects later, we've never looked back.

More than anything, I can't imagine looking back on a life of unfulfilled dreams.

Submitted by CA renter on February 6, 2014 - 3:28am.

dumbrenter wrote:
what use is all the money saved in youthful years to spend in your old age when your bones are weak, you cannot get any action due to biological limitations and you wet yourself every few hours?

This whole thing seems inverted. Shouldn't we be taking on as much debt and focus on spending that in our youthful years and then work hard in old age to pay for it?
A vacation to Cabo in your 30's is much more fun than going there in your 70's.

Theoretically, one could certainly make this argument. The problem is that you need money in order to survive in old age. Young people tend to over-consume and take on so much debt in their younger years that they are unable to pay it off and/or have too much of a debt load to enjoy life in the long run. Many are already so strapped by the time they are in their mid-late 20s that they are unable to ever save enough for retirement because they have such a high debt service burden.

Where consumption is concerned, it's best to set aside money in advance so you can spend it once you've saved enough for a particular goal. That way, you can earn interest instead of paying interest to another creditor. Better to be a creditor than a debtor, IMO.

Submitted by CA renter on February 6, 2014 - 3:29am.

flyer wrote:
I believe in having dreams and living your dreams.

As an example, we started privately investing in films a few years ago, primarily because my wife happened to know someone who had written a little vampire story that ended up becoming a worldwide phenom.

Several "advisors" told us not to do it--but it was one of our "dreams," so, very long story short--we did it, and many projects later, we've never looked back.

More than anything, I can't imagine looking back on a life of unfulfilled dreams.

You are very fortunate, indeed! :)

Submitted by flyer on February 6, 2014 - 3:31am.

Thanks, CAR. One of those "right place at the right time" things. It's been very interesting.

Submitted by moneymaker on February 6, 2014 - 5:53am.

I have a dream, but no one I know supports it. That makes me sad when I think about it, so instead of thinking about it, I go about life doing my projects and working for a living. I do think however that just having that dream allows me to live life with a little less stress. Recently found out wife doesn't believe there is sex in heaven, wow bummer!

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