OT: religion

User Forum Topic
Submitted by carlsbadworker on April 15, 2014 - 5:05pm

Submitted by UCGal on April 15, 2014 - 7:24pm.

Interesting to note which religions had dollar bills, vs just change.

Submitted by svelte on April 16, 2014 - 9:32pm.

UC, you should peruse kiva.org

For the longest time, the group that had loaned the most was the "Atheists, Agnostics and Freethinkers". (The group I belong to on there)

I'm not sure if it is still the same way as I'm just in there long enough to fund new loans now and haven't bothered looking at the stats.

Submitted by NotCranky on April 17, 2014 - 12:20am.

The atheists, agnostics, and Freethinkers are motivated to prove that you don't need religion to be good and the religious people think they are good enough without really doing anything for the homeless guy. The results are skewed by these things.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 17, 2014 - 6:15am.

Designed to increase income not provide reliable data

Submitted by SK in CV on April 17, 2014 - 10:28am.

Blogstar wrote:
The atheists, agnostics, and Freethinkers are motivated to prove that you don't need religion to be good and the religious people think they are good enough without really doing anything for the homeless guy. The results are skewed by these things.

Not all atheists are out to prove anything at all. In fact, I think most aren't. It's an egocentric claim from the point of view of a believer. Believers seem to think that anyone who thinks differently has a burden to support that view. Atheism is the absence of belief. As an atheist, I have no burden to support a non-belief. Some, like me, really just don't give a shit.

Submitted by zk on April 17, 2014 - 10:31am.

Blogstar wrote:
The atheists, agnostics, and Freethinkers are motivated to prove that you don't need religion to be good and the religious people think they are good enough without really doing anything for the homeless guy. The results are skewed by these things.

I would agree with this. I would also say that many "bad" people use their "faith" to convince themselves and others that they're not bad people.

Submitted by creechrr on April 17, 2014 - 10:46am.

SK in CV wrote:
Blogstar wrote:
The atheists, agnostics, and Freethinkers are motivated to prove that you don't need religion to be good and the religious people think they are good enough without really doing anything for the homeless guy. The results are skewed by these things.

Not all atheists are out to prove anything at all. In fact, I think most aren't. It's an egocentric claim from the point of view of a believer. Believers seem to think that anyone who thinks differently has a burden to support that view. Atheism is the absence of belief. As an atheist, I have no burden to support a non-belief. Some, like me, really just don't give a shit.

+1

I've never understood why there is such concern over the religion of others.

Your relationship with your God of choice is between you and that God. Please leave me out of it.

Submitted by Doofrat on April 17, 2014 - 12:18pm.

Can't remember where I heard this:
Religion is like a penis: It's fine if you have one and it's fine if you're proud of it, just please don't wave it around in public or try to shove it down my throat.

Submitted by svelte on April 17, 2014 - 9:19pm.

doofrat wrote:
Can't remember where I heard this:
Religion is like a penis: It's fine if you have one and it's fine if you're proud of it, just please don't wave it around in public or try to shove it down my throat.

lol. I think you heard that from me, as I've posted it on here before. You have some wording changes in there that I actually like better than what I typically say. Obviously I didn't practice what I preached (heh) on Kiva. Actually I sorta did since I am anonymous on there.

Most people in my life are unaware that I am a non-believer. I don't belong to any atheists groups, don't have one of those fish-with-feet decals on my car, and haven't filed any remove-that-symbol-from-public-land lawsuits. So for the most part, I keep it down low.

But sometimes people push my buttons just right and it's like holding raw meat in front of a tiger.

Signing up for Kiva was one of those moments. Someone on here mentioned Kiva and I thought it was a good way to give back to the world. I could encourage independence world-wide by helping fund entrepeneurs in poor countries who just needed a hand, not a hand out.

So I signed up. But first thing I was presented with when I joined was one Christian group after another as options of what I could become a member of on Kiva. Well that was the raw meat. I went looking for a non-believers group and found Atheists, Agnostics, and Non-believers. The only time ever I have joined such a group for anything.

Another 'raw meat' moment was during the election with Prop 8. I was doing perfectly fine, was gonna vote against it, wasn't talking to anyone about it. Then I drove up my street and I'll be damned if the neighbors on both sides AND across the street didn't have "Save Marriage" signs planted in their yard, sponsored by a local church. That did it. I put a "Straight Not Narrow" sign in my yard and held a "No on 8" banner on a street corner for full two full days the next weekend.

The third time I can recollect was at work. My boss went to lengths to mention each week about the charity work he did with his church. I smiled and said nothing. Then one week he suggested I join his church group. Raw meat again. I bet he never forgot that conversation.

Anyway, I don't hate religion or Christians. I just want to be left alone in my freedom from religion. Just don't hang raw meat in front of me. :-)

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 18, 2014 - 6:13pm.

svelte wrote:
doofrat wrote:
Can't remember where I heard this:
Religion is like a penis: It's fine if you have one and it's fine if you're proud of it, just please don't wave it around in public or try to shove it down my throat.

lol. I think you heard that from me, as I've posted it on here before. You have some wording changes in there that I actually like better than what I typically say. Obviously I didn't practice what I preached (heh) on Kiva. Actually I sorta did since I am anonymous on there.

Most people in my life are unaware that I am a non-believer. I don't belong to any atheists groups, don't have one of those fish-with-feet decals on my car, and haven't filed any remove-that-symbol-from-public-land lawsuits. So for the most part, I keep it down low.

But sometimes people push my buttons just right and it's like holding raw meat in front of a tiger.

Signing up for Kiva was one of those moments. Someone on here mentioned Kiva and I thought it was a good way to give back to the world. I could encourage independence world-wide by helping fund entrepeneurs in poor countries who just needed a hand, not a hand out.

So I signed up. But first thing I was presented with when I joined was one Christian group after another as options of what I could become a member of on Kiva. Well that was the raw meat. I went looking for a non-believers group and found Atheists, Agnostics, and Non-believers. The only time ever I have joined such a group for anything.

Another 'raw meat' moment was during the election with Prop 8. I was doing perfectly fine, was gonna vote against it, wasn't talking to anyone about it. Then I drove up my street and I'll be damned if the neighbors on both sides AND across the street didn't have "Save Marriage" signs planted in their yard, sponsored by a local church. That did it. I put a "Straight Not Narrow" sign in my yard and held a "No on 8" banner on a street corner for full two full days the next weekend.

The third time I can recollect was at work. My boss went to lengths to mention each week about the charity work he did with his church. I smiled and said nothing. Then one week he suggested I join his church group. Raw meat again. I bet he never forgot that conversation.

Anyway, I don't hate religion or Christians. I just want to be left alone in my freedom from religion. Just don't hang raw meat in front of me. :-)

most Christians i am told believe they have a duty to hang raw meat in front of you. They might phrase it slightly differently; perhaps, sharing the good news of the holy gospel, making sure your soul is ok and set up for eternity..just trying to do you a favor, man. feel bad for you, with your messed up situation...all unsaved and basically willfully blind.
here take this Bible, dude. we're just going to open this meeting witha little prayer. what's the big deal? you don't ahve to listen? this is a christian country, little fella, and if you don't like it, well, you ahve a right to be an unsaved idiot, just shut up.

or dont.

your boss is an idiot. employmentlawwise speaking...

Submitted by flyer on April 18, 2014 - 7:09pm.

I agree that a person's religious beliefs, or lack thereof, are completely their own decision.

Even though I know many feel "believers" just can't wait to convert them, personally, I could care less what others believe. I know exactly what I believe and why, and no one's "opinion" will ever change my thinking.

At least we can all agree that no one gets out of this world alive, and the rest remains to be seen (or not.)

Submitted by creechrr on April 19, 2014 - 7:03pm.

I also don't hate Christians, Jews, Muslims or any other group. However, the only group that has ever tried to force their views upon me are Christians.

Christians have a tendency of beating about the head and shoulders with their beliefs. I just want to be left alone. Let me believe or not believe as I see fit.

Submitted by flyer on April 19, 2014 - 9:03pm.

If someone forces their views upon you, just tell them you're not interested, as you have stated here.

I've told many people who insisted on sharing their beliefs with me that I'm not interested because I'm very happy and secure in my own beliefs, and, frankly, have no interest whatsoever in their beliefs--or lack thereof.

Sometimes you have to be firm, but, it can be done.

Submitted by ltsddd on April 19, 2014 - 10:04pm.

flyer wrote:
If someone forces their views upon you, just tell them you're not interested, as you have stated here.

I've told many people who insisted on sharing their beliefs with me that I'm not interested because I'm very happy and secure in my own beliefs, and, frankly, have no interest whatsoever in their beliefs--or lack thereof.

Sometimes you have to be firm, but, it can be done.

amen ;)

Submitted by zk on April 19, 2014 - 10:52pm.

flyer wrote:
If someone forces their views upon you, just tell them you're not interested, as you have stated here.

I've told many people who insisted on sharing their beliefs with me that I'm not interested because I'm very happy and secure in my own beliefs, and, frankly, have no interest whatsoever in their beliefs--or lack thereof.

Sometimes you have to be firm, but, it can be done.

Sure, it can be done. But it shouldn't have to be done. It's like a guy hitting on a girl who's clearly out of his league (in that there's very little chance she'll want to hear anything he has to say), and persisting despite her clear lack of interest until she has to be firm about it. That's downright rude. Same as trying to convert a stranger. Not a crime. Not even a huge deal. But quite rude and quite ignorant.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 19, 2014 - 11:44pm.

Matthew 28:19. "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations."

New testaments pretty clear.

Get fresh recruits ...other citation support that.

It's not irritating from the converters point if view. He us literally trying to save your soul so that you don't spend all eternity rotting in hell.

You should be grateful

Submitted by flyer on April 20, 2014 - 5:18am.

We are extremely grateful for our beliefs, but realize not everyone shares them--just as we do not share their beliefs. We respect that, and expect others to do the same for us. It's true that many "believers" feel it is their duty to "convert," but we don't. To each his or her own.

IMO, that philosophy should apply to many aspects of life. I can't tell you how many times I've been contacted by people who have tried to "convert" me to their way of financial thinking--because, of course--they just happen to be the only person on earth who has been blessed with the amazing, stupendous, revelatory knowledge of how to turn seven figures into eight.

When you check out their net worth it makes it very clear that religion is not the only place you find "false prophets." Talk about rude and ignorant.

Submitted by zk on April 20, 2014 - 7:15am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
Matthew 28:19. "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations."

New testaments pretty clear.

Get fresh recruits ...other citation support that.

It's not irritating from the converters point if view. He us literally trying to save your soul so that you don't spend all eternity rotting in hell.

You should be grateful

Yeah, let's start throwing bible quotes around and see if we can't come up with a thousand reasons to call followers of that book rude, ignorant, or countless other unflattering adjectives.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 20, 2014 - 8:01am.

Well. Ok. This isn't weird, outdated, out of context bible quoting ... this is a reality for millions of Americans today.

this was one quote to support the general duty to evangelize and spread the good word. I'm not implying it's rude to do so. I'm saying from the Christian point of view you have a responsibility to let people know about Jesus. You'd be amiss to not let others know about the greatness that is jesus. You can't get into heaven otherwise. It's a service. For Mormons and jehovahs witnesses it's not even optional.

Submitted by zk on April 20, 2014 - 8:07am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
Well. Ok. This isn't weird, outdated, out of context bible quoting ... this is a reality for millions of Americans today.

this was one quote to support the general duty to evangelize and spread the good word. I'm not implying it's rude to do so. I'm saying from the Christian point of view you have a responsibility to let people know about Jesus. You'd be amiss to not let others know about the greatness that is jesus. You can't get into heaven otherwise. It's a service. For Mormons and jehovahs witnesses it's not even optional.

Yes, it's a reality for millions of Americans. And yes, from their point of view they have that responsibility. None of that changes the fact that it's rude and ignorant. My point was that, just because it's in the bible and just because it's their responsibility according to the bible, doesn't make it any less rude or any less ignorant. There are countless indefensible quotes in the bible, and to imply that something is ok because it's in the bible doesn't fly.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 20, 2014 - 8:12am.

I think many converters have a strange fantasy that there are vast hordes of Americans who simplyb h Avent been told about Jesus and the good news about getting saved. That's why they have to let you know ... it's like letting people in on a legal little known tax break. It's just so great. The word isntvout. It's free money. How could you not want to hear about it?

Submitted by zk on April 20, 2014 - 8:33am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
I think many converters have a strange fantasy that there are vast hordes of Americans who simplyb h Avent been told about Jesus and the good news about getting saved. That's why they have to let you know ... it's like letting people in on a legal little known tax break. It's just so great. The word isntvout. It's free money. How could you not want to hear about it?

That is a strange fantasy. Not as strange as some of the ones I have. But strange nonetheless.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 20, 2014 - 9:07am.

On the other hand if you catch people at a strangely desperate life moment you just might be luckyvenough to snare another soul for the Lord. Both Matthew and mark agree that Jesus said "follow me and I will make you fishers of men". That's a central duty and it's definitely not live and let live. Get some more fish hooked, reel Em in, serve Em up to the Lord.

The unsaved are like fish. Dead eyes swimming mindlessly in a sea oof sin. But once hooked by the Lord you get to be something new and completely different. Awesome.

Rudeness requires a certain intent. Christian converters are just kind of pitying at best or oblivious at worst to other possible narratives of how reality works.

Submitted by zk on April 20, 2014 - 9:12am.

scaredyclassic wrote:

Rudeness requires a certain intent. Christian converters are just kind of pitying at best or oblivious at worst to other possible narratives of how reality works.

That gives them a benefit of the doubt that I'm not sure I'm willing to give them. Perhaps they know there's no chance you'll convert, and they know they're annoying you, but they want to get to heaven, so they're selfishly annoying you to achieve their own goal.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 20, 2014 - 9:15am.

I'm guilty of being equally rude.

Sometimes I pretend to have never heard of jesus.

That's gets their excitement level through the roof....

Then when they start I say Oooooohhhhhh. That jesus! Yeah I already have a religious identity. But thanks."

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 20, 2014 - 9:18am.

But I haven't done that for a long time.

Submitted by zk on April 20, 2014 - 9:31am.

scaredyclassic wrote:

Oooooohhhhhh. That jesus!

Hilarious!

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 20, 2014 - 11:02am.

seems like better marketing to make the entry a little more difficult.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on April 20, 2014 - 11:26am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
I'm guilty of being equally rude.

Sometimes I pretend to have never heard of jesus.

That's gets their excitement level through the roof....

Then when they start I say Oooooohhhhhh. That jesus! Yeah I already have a religious identity. But thanks."

Scaredy: You're treating all Christians as if they all believe the same things, from a dogmatic standpoint. This isn't true.

It would be akin to treating all Jews, Orthodox or no, as Hasidim.

Amongst evangelical Christians, there is a strong desire to proselytize. Unfortunately, their view of God's word isn't the same as held by other denominations, Catholics being the largest. As a Catholic, I believe the bible is contextual, not literal, and even a brief reading of Spinoza exposes the many flaws and contradictions in the Bible.

Submitted by carlsbadworker on April 20, 2014 - 11:49am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
I'm guilty of being equally rude.

Sometimes I pretend to have never heard of jesus.

That's gets their excitement level through the roof....

Then when they start I say Oooooohhhhhh. That jesus! Yeah I already have a religious identity. But thanks."

Or the next time someone tells you that Jesus died for your sin. You could say, "What? He dies?! I was reading that book, man."

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