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July 5, 2012 at 9:40 AM #19936July 5, 2012 at 10:31 AM #747251briansd1Guest
As I said before, undocumented presence in USA is not illegal, nor criminal. If anyone thinks otherwise, please point to the Constitution or any statute that makes it illegal.
Here are important parts of the article:
Migrant workers residing unlawfully in the U.S. are not — and never have been — criminals. They are subject to deportation, through a civil administrative procedure that differs from criminal prosecution, and where judges have wide discretion to allow certain foreign nationals to remain here.
Justice Anthony Kennedy, writing for the majority, joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and three other justices, stated: “As a general rule, it is not a crime for a removable alien to remain present in the United States.” The court also ruled that it was not a crime to seek or engage in unauthorized employment.
As Kennedy explained, removal of an unauthorized migrant is a civil matter where even if the person is out of status, federal officials have wide discretion to determine whether deportation makes sense. For example, if an unauthorized person is trying to support his family by working or has “children born in the United States, long ties to the community, or a record of distinguished military service,” officials may let him stay. Also, if individuals or their families might be politically persecuted or harmed upon return to their country of origin, they may also remain in the United States.
July 5, 2012 at 10:45 AM #747255ocrenterParticipant[quote=briansd1]As I said before, undocumented presence in USA is not illegal, nor criminal. If anyone thinks otherwise, please point to the Constitution or any statute that makes it illegal.
Here are important parts of the article:
Migrant workers residing unlawfully in the U.S. are not — and never have been — criminals. They are subject to deportation, through a civil administrative procedure that differs from criminal prosecution, and where judges have wide discretion to allow certain foreign nationals to remain here.
Justice Anthony Kennedy, writing for the majority, joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and three other justices, stated: “As a general rule, it is not a crime for a removable alien to remain present in the United States.” The court also ruled that it was not a crime to seek or engage in unauthorized employment.
As Kennedy explained, removal of an unauthorized migrant is a civil matter where even if the person is out of status, federal officials have wide discretion to determine whether deportation makes sense. For example, if an unauthorized person is trying to support his family by working or has “children born in the United States, long ties to the community, or a record of distinguished military service,” officials may let him stay. Also, if individuals or their families might be politically persecuted or harmed upon return to their country of origin, they may also remain in the United States.
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brain, this is way too much.
the person illegally entered the country, or illegally overstayed their visa. that is illegal.
to say they are undocumented means they were frolicking on one side of the Rio Grande, and the current took them to the other side. Hence they are undocumnted, but they didn’t mean to cros the border illegally.
July 5, 2012 at 12:13 PM #747261Allan from FallbrookParticipant[quote=ocrenter]
brain, this is way too much.the person illegally entered the country, or illegally overstayed their visa. that is illegal.
to say they are undocumented means they were frolicking on one side of the Rio Grande, and the current took them to the other side. Hence they are undocumnted, but they didn’t mean to cros the border illegally.[/quote]
OCR: Thank you for stating what should be painfully obvious (but apparently isn’t.)
Plus, you get extra points for using the word “frolicking.” We all should do a little more frolicking, doncha think?
July 5, 2012 at 12:14 PM #747262AnonymousGuest[quote=briansd1]As I said before, undocumented presence in USA is not illegal, nor criminal. If anyone thinks otherwise, please point to the Constitution or any statute that makes it illegal.
>[/quote]
Come on Brian, you are trying to use semantics to justify presense of illegal aliens..
Illegally entering the U.S. is a federal crime. Obviously if a foreign national is physically in the U.S. with no documentation that means they had to enter illegally. The other situation is for those who overstayed their Visa. I’m sure there is a law that covers that too but that is not the current topic because they actually do have documentation, just expired.
8 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code – Section 1325: Improper entry by alien
July 5, 2012 at 12:35 PM #747263ocrenterParticipant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=ocrenter]
brain, this is way too much.the person illegally entered the country, or illegally overstayed their visa. that is illegal.
to say they are undocumented means they were frolicking on one side of the Rio Grande, and the current took them to the other side. Hence they are undocumnted, but they didn’t mean to cros the border illegally.[/quote]
OCR: Thank you for stating what should be painfully obvious (but apparently isn’t.)
Plus, you get extra points for using the word “frolicking.” We all should do a little more frolicking, doncha think?[/quote]
haha, thank you thank you, (patting self on back)
btw, brian, you know you are in the wrong when me and Allan are on the same side…
July 5, 2012 at 12:42 PM #747264briansd1GuestThe Supreme Court has spoken on the subject of SB1070.
All the AZ state police can do is investigate the immigration status of people apprehended, if there is reasonable suspicion. And even that provision is on hold pending further litigation. It’s doubtful that AZ can setup a fair mechanism to comply with that provision of the law.
Sorry guys, the court has ruled and my side has been vindicated.
July 5, 2012 at 1:17 PM #747267Allan from FallbrookParticipant[quote=briansd1]The Supreme Court has spoken on the subject of SB1070.
All the AZ state police can do is investigate the immigration status of people apprehended, if there is reasonable suspicion. And even that provision is on hold pending further litigation. It’s doubtful that AZ can setup a fair mechanism to comply with that provision of the law.
Sorry guys, the court has ruled and my side has been vindicated.[/quote]
Brian: “Your side?” Which “side” are you on? The side that likes cheap labor because their Big Business buddies like cheap labor (GOP), or the side that likes buying votes by ignoring US immigration laws/policies (Dems)?
Whether or not you agree with Arizona’s attempt to get the feds to do their friggin’ job and enforce the laws on the books regarding illegal immigration (and, yeah, it IS illegal, regardless of your semantic contortions), the point remains valid: This is a serious problem and neither the GOP nor the Dems want to have anything to do with honestly trying to find a workable solution.
July 5, 2012 at 1:18 PM #747268Allan from FallbrookParticipant[quote=ocrenter]
btw, brian, you know you are in the wrong when me and Allan are on the same side…[/quote]OCR: Geez, don’t hold back, tell me what you really think! =)
July 5, 2012 at 3:57 PM #747278briansd1Guest[quote=Allan from Fallbrook] the point remains valid: This is a serious problem and neither the GOP nor the Dems want to have anything to do with honestly trying to find a workable solution.[/quote]
Not true, Allan.
Democrats want a path to citizenship for the immigrants already here.
Republican such as McCain and Romney also wanted a path to citizenship but they have reversed themselves, under pressure.
We should start with passing the Dream Act. One step at a time. Which side is opposing that, Allan?
Unauthorized immigration is at a low. Give amnesty to people already here and develop a guest worker program to meet the future needs of the economy.
July 5, 2012 at 4:07 PM #747279AnonymousGuest[quote=briansd1][quote=Allan from Fallbrook] the point remains valid: This is a serious problem and neither the GOP nor the Dems want to have anything to do with honestly trying to find a workable solution.[/quote]
Not true, Allan.
Democrats want a path to citizenship for the immigrants already here.
Republican such as McCain and Romney also wanted a path to citizenship but they have reversed themselves, under pressure.
We should start with passing the Dream Act. One step at a time. Which side is opposing that, Allan?
Unauthorized immigration is at a low. Give amnesty to people already here and develop a guest worker program to meet the future needs of the economy.[/quote]
Unauthorized immigration is at a low compared to what? The problem with blanket amnesty is it will just encourage more people to cross, it gives them hope/expectations that they too will be given amnesty. Frankly Reagains’ amnesty in the 80s is what really let the horse out of the barn. Furthermore, if the current millions of illegals suddenly became citizens, do you really belive they will continue working the same crappy jobs they do now? Many will choose instead to suck the government’s tit rather than clean bathrooms for minimum wage.
Also, if you believe things have improved in Mexico you are mis-informed. Economic conditions there are as bad or worse as ever. Do you really want to encourage a never ending supply of immigrants?
July 5, 2012 at 4:12 PM #747280CoronitaParticipant[quote=deadzone]
Also, if you believe things have improved in Mexico you are mis-informed. Economic conditions there are as bad or worse as ever. Do you really want to encourage a never ending supply of immigrants?[/quote]DZ,,, *hijack*. You know, I meant to retract my previous post on the HFT but couldn’t. I apologize that I got you mixed up with some other poster on the HFT tread who was part of a VC….Excuse me for being a jerk…
July 5, 2012 at 4:13 PM #747281CoronitaParticipantI don’t understand why we’re making excuses for illegal behavior… I guess I’m missing something.
July 5, 2012 at 4:20 PM #747283briansd1Guest[quote=deadzone] Do you really want to encourage a never ending supply of immigrants?[/quote]
The stream of immigrants is what built America. People are what make a strong, vibrant economy. with a low birth rate and low immigration we would have stagnant economy.
We easily have enough room in America for a population of 1 billion.
July 5, 2012 at 4:40 PM #747284AnonymousGuest[quote=briansd1][quote=deadzone] Do you really want to encourage a never ending supply of immigrants?[/quote]
The stream of immigrants is what built America. People are what make a strong, vibrant economy. with a low birth rate and low immigration we would have stagnant economy.
We easily have enough room in America for a population of 1 billion.[/quote]
Why not 2 billion people? We can beat China and truly be #1 in the world in at least one category. An easy first step is just remove the border and officially merge with Mexico and we can instantly gain over 100 million.
But on a serious note, with a U6 unemployment rate of 15%, do we really need a lot of new immigrants (other than certain technical specialists in niche career fields)?
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