OT: Math

User Forum Topic
Submitted by carlsbadworker on February 15, 2021 - 6:20pm

With ever puzzling financial market valuation, I thought I could still count on math, but I guess I was wrong:

https://nypost.com/2021/02/12/adding-wok...

Submitted by an on February 15, 2021 - 8:35pm.

I literally LoL

Submitted by Hobie on February 16, 2021 - 4:18am.

oh my...

Here is the course:
https://equitablemath.org/?emci=826b0dfc...

And you might be wondering how they grade kids in this new method.  Here is a screenshot of their course page.And you might be wondering how they grade kids in this new method. Here is a screenshot of their course page.

fyi, funding by Bill Gates Foundation

Submitted by ucodegen on February 16, 2021 - 3:52pm.

Holy crap. I don't get how White Supremacy Culture is centered around getting the 'right' answer and 'showing your work'...

These people seem to forget that Asians also emphasize the same thing.. and your tiger mom makes sure of it! I didn't know that Asians were white too!! As well as 'dark skinned' people from India, who are black... but not black.. because they work hard to be successful.

They are forgetting that our current numbering system is not really white - it is Arabic. If it was white, it would be something like XXI for 21. It gets worse real quickly. The circumference of the earth is about 24,901 miles, or "MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMCMI"... humm.. time for some M&Ms...

So if a bridge collapses because the stress loading was incorrectly calculated because the emphasis was not on getting the correct answer nor on showing the work so that it could be double checked. Would the resulting collapse of the bridge be considered a racist event? What about crash of an airplane?

Oy Vey.

Submitted by phaster on February 19, 2021 - 10:15am.

carlsbadworker wrote:
With ever puzzling financial market valuation, I thought I could still count on math, but I guess I was wrong:

https://nypost.com/2021/02/12/adding-wokeness-oregon-promotes-teacher-program-to-subtract-racism-in-mathematics/

huh,...

Quote:

The Oregon Department of Education (ODE) recently encouraged teachers to register for training that encourages “ethnomathematics” and argues, among other things, that White supremacy manifests itself in the focus on finding the right answer.

An ODE newsletter sent last week advertises a Feb. 21 “Pathway to Math Equity Micro-Course,” which is designed for middle school teachers to make use of a toolkit for “dismantling racism in mathematics.” The event website identifies the event as a partnership between California’s San Mateo County Office of Education, The Education Trust-West and others.

...Part of the toolkit includes a list of ways “white supremacy culture” allegedly “infiltrates math classrooms.” Those include “the focus is on getting the ‘right’ answer,” students being “required to ‘show their work,'” and other alleged manifestations.

“The concept of mathematics being purely objective is unequivocally false, and teaching it is even much less so,” the document for the “Equitable Math” toolkit reads. “Upholding the idea that there are always right and wrong answers perpetuate objectivity as well as fear of open conflict.”

https://nypost.com/2021/02/12/adding-wok...

having taken a few traditional math classes (i.e. NOT “ethnomathematics”),... I think this new CULTural math is actually kinda interesting/humorous

Quote:

Students Asked About Prostitutes And Drug Dealers On MATH Quiz

Eighth-grade students in southwest Florida were asked about prostitutes, pimps and sex abuse on a take-home math test.

They were word problems on an algebra test at Lexington Middle School – and parents are outraged.

The set-up for the questions is the life of the writer Maya Angelou. The questions highlighted parts of Angelou’s life that are not only inappropriate for young teenagers, but equally inappropriate in a math class. The questions were sent home with almost 100 honor students.

One of the questions said, “Trying to support her son as a single mother, she (Angelou) worked as a pimp, prostitute, and ______.“

https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/stude...

Submitted by Coronita on February 20, 2021 - 6:58am.

ucodegen wrote:
Holy crap. I don't get how White Supremacy Culture is centered around getting the 'right' answer and 'showing your work'...

These people seem to forget that Asians also emphasize the same thing.. and your tiger mom makes sure of it! I didn't know that Asians were white too!! As well as 'dark skinned' people from India, who are black... but not black.. because they work hard to be successful.

They are forgetting that our current numbering system is not really white - it is Arabic. If it was white, it would be something like XXI for 21. It gets worse real quickly. The circumference of the earth is about 24,901 miles, or "MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMCMI"... humm.. time for some M&Ms...

So if a bridge collapses because the stress loading was incorrectly calculated because the emphasis was not on getting the correct answer nor on showing the work so that it could be double checked. Would the resulting collapse of the bridge be considered a racist event? What about crash of an airplane?

Oy Vey.

When it comes to education and career opportunities, the average Asian male of course is white. that's why things like sca-5 and prop 16 conveniently disregard asians as minorities. Prop 16, which ironically got defeated because not only asians overwhelming voted against it , but so did latinos....I guess now because both asians and latinos make up a large percentage or UC and CalState demographics based on merit, both groups really don't want any sort of government heavy hand changing that....lol.

Still waiting for Biden to pick an Asian male as part of his leadership team....not holding my breath.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 20, 2021 - 12:24pm.

Black and white

Maybe i nstead of calling it AA call it AR affirmative reparations

Submitted by Coronita on February 20, 2021 - 2:58pm.

I'd prefer the new term.. "unconscious bias".

For example,

Is an asian american male being denied senior management positions at tech firms simply because he isn't a big NFL or NBA fan or a frat boy? It's a very interesting discussion, though it probably wasn't meant to be applied to this category of people.

Take my company for instance. Out of roughly 25 directors, senior directors, and VPs. it's just interesting that I'm the only asian male. Probably because I learned to play the game. I talk about football and basketball, not because I really care,. I suspected memorizing the statistics helps when it comes to promotions.... That and my unexpected interest in cars and SCCA club racing. More so than my actual skillset....Looks like I was right..Too bad I don't like golf. There would have come in handy too, lol.

Submitted by an on February 20, 2021 - 5:54pm.

Coronita, when it comes to higher education, it's worst being Asian than white.

Submitted by Coronita on February 20, 2021 - 8:08pm.

an wrote:
Coronita, when it comes to higher education, it's worst being Asian than white.

I remember when I was a freshman in college. I was interviewing for an internship at HP. Same as my friend. My friend and I both had limited work experience in electrical engineering. We both had roughly the same understanding and grades, after all we were lab partners.

We both had the same interview with the same guy, I'll call HP asshole.

We were both asked the same 3 technical questions, figuring out the resistance, current , voltage of various circuits. I got 2 out of 3 correct. He got 1 out of 3 correct. In the last 15 minutes of the interview, the same asshole, Eric, made a snide comment about how I couldnt do all 3 questions, lecture about how we expect all candidates to know these questions , and another lecture about how HP prides itself on diversity and specifically said we hire "a lot of black engineers" (his exact words)..

My friend shared me what he and "Eric" talked about.... Football and the 49ers. he was complemented how well he got 1 out of 3 questions correct, no mention of how "diverse" HP is and no mention about how many "black engineers we hire"...

Eric was white. I got a rejection letter for the HP internship... My lab partner was white and could carry a much longer conversation about the 49ers...and so got the internship.

This is what the the essence of
unconscious bias. See if I was black, I probably would have been hired according to what Eric said. if I was white, I probably would have been hired like my lab partner, because I could have that all american 49er convo to blend in.. being neither, I was fucked even if , as a freshman I did answer 2 of 3 interview questions that took 2/3 of the entire interview...and that was for an engineering technical skills based position... I can't imagine what the arbitrary criteria would have been even more so for something in sales or marketing...

And it had a very ugly result...You see, throughout my career, I never ever sought a job with HP. I was celebrating when Carly Fiorina destroyed HP, and when many people at HP from that Palo alto office were looking for a job when I was still up there, I made sure to toss all their resumes in the trash can, among many reasons, many of their engineers had their head up in the clouds with that sorry excuse of a distributed software architecture called "e-Speak".... I never entertained a resume from Palo Alto HP. Neither did anyone in my group...never bought any office equipment from HP, or computer, or computer peripherals with HP label on it.

For me, there was no unconsciousness in my bias. I was young them, and didn't know better ..

So forgive me if I roll my eyes when someone mentions about how "diverse" they think they are champions of "diversity". In my experience, most of the time people who claim they are champions of diversity are most of the time full of shit and have a lot of unconscious biases lurking in their closets that either they don't realize or even if they do, don't care so long as they have something they can do to easily check the diversity box....

Submitted by paulflorez on February 21, 2021 - 1:03am.

Coronita wrote:
See if I was black, I probably would have been hired according to what Eric said.

Black engineers continue to have an abysmally low rate of representation in engineering. Sounds like Eric was feeding you bullshit. Eric would not have hired you if you were Black. Eric wanted to hire another Eric. That’s still how the industry is. People hire people who are like them and avoid hiring people who are different. Not only does it hurt under-represented minorities, but it also hurts the ability of businesses to innovate. Echo chambers are not the optimal places for innovation.

Submitted by Coronita on February 21, 2021 - 5:35am.

paulflorez wrote:
Coronita wrote:
See if I was black, I probably would have been hired according to what Eric said.

Black engineers continue to have an abysmally low rate of representation in engineering. Sounds like Eric was feeding you bullshit. Eric would not have hired you if you were Black. Eric wanted to hire another Eric. That’s still how the industry is. People hire people who are like them and avoid hiring people who are different. Not only does it hurt under-represented minorities, but it also hurts the ability of businesses to innovate. Echo chambers are not the optimal places for innovation.

I totally agree which is partly the reason why I was pretty happy why HP ended up the way it did, especially after Carly made it into a big mess.

There were so many other instances of unconscious bias throughout my career both when I was an intern and when I was an after I was an FTE. I won't event begin to tell you the stories at then Motorola in Schaumburg, IL. back decades ago....beyond the original experience that I couldn't move a computer to a different cubicle before getting a unionized furniture worker to do it that would take a few weeks, a good part of my internship there. I mean, it was pretty tough to get in to "Motorola" as a undergrad asian EE engineer because when you applied, you had to jump through all these technical hoops during the interview. But once you got there, and shared a corporate housing with the other interns , you learned that it was hard to get in as you were asian, worked your ass off, didn't nearly get invited to as many of the off hour happy hours and etc, and just plain ackward social vibe. But if you were African American intern roommate, you got to do the cool student intern events, parties, had a well organized mentor, well organized events specifically for all the african american interns there, a support network among other fellow AA interns and engineers,marketing, finance employees..And if you were like my white roommate, you were invited to all the happy hours, the chicago cubs games, after work softball, etc... Didn't need to slave away at the tectronox spectrum analyzer testing the gain of a recover before a deadline, got make a lot of cool powerpoint presentations about the much smaller job you did. And were guaranteed a full time job after you graduated from college the few days you had left with your internship.

I was only asked if I wanted to come back as a full time engineer several months later about 2 months before my graduation after I got a full time job at then rinky dink Qualcomm. There it was a painful interview... Directors, managers, engineers , the only thing the systems engineering group cared about was asking technical skilled questions. no bullshit 49ers questions and frankly no one at least in that dept gave a shit what color you were as long as you were good enough to answer all the questions .. I was sold....well at least until they decided to have all of us pull cables out of the base station equipment for testing 90% of the time as the primary job function.... And then when I tried to transfer into their software engineering group, met some bullshit excuse from that group why I couldn't... I guess because by that time, Qualcomm had slightly declined, hired a bunch of people for ailing Nortel and Motorola, and brought over some of that frat boy mentality into Qualcomm much easier software engineering group, since funny thing was many of them didnt require a master's degree and several years of work experience in software as I was told. and frankly couldn't code themselves out of a wet paper bag if their life depended on it ..hence why their base station business was an absymal failure and eventually sold to Ericcson. So I left there too, and went to the Bay area. (Probably cost me a fortune in stock options. ...slightly mitigated by two ipos up there, lol)

I think when I retire from this industry maybe in 1-2 years if they fire/lay me off with my half golden parachute, I'm contemplating publishing my memoirs on LinkedIn just to stir the pot:

"Memoirs of an Angry Asian American Engineer That Got Fucked Over Many Times By Unconscious and Conscious Bias "
Since at that point I won't give a shit which bridges I burn.

I would have a lot to say on both the general problem of these biases and how any sort of affirmative action is just lipstick on a pig and not really doing shit to solve the problem, just pretending to fix the problem..At least in engineering though, these biases don't bubble up nearly as frequently as in other industries , at least not until you get into senior leadership roles.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 21, 2021 - 9:20am.

Coronita wrote:
paulflorez wrote:
Coronita wrote:
See if I was black, I probably would have been hired according to what Eric said.

Black engineers continue to have an abysmally low rate of representation in engineering. Sounds like Eric was feeding you bullshit. Eric would not have hired you if you were Black. Eric wanted to hire another Eric. That’s still how the industry is. People hire people who are like them and avoid hiring people who are different. Not only does it hurt under-represented minorities, but it also hurts the ability of businesses to innovate. Echo chambers are not the optimal places for innovation.

I totally agree which is partly the reason why I was pretty happy why HP ended up the way it did, especially after Carly made it into a big mess.

There were so many other instances of unconscious bias throughout my career both when I was an intern and when I was an after I was an FTE. I won't event begin to tell you the stories at then Motorola in Schaumburg, IL. back decades ago....beyond the original experience that I couldn't move a computer to a different cubicle before getting a unionized furniture worker to do it that would take a few weeks, a good part of my internship there. I mean, it was pretty tough to get in to "Motorola" as a undergrad asian EE engineer because when you applied, you had to jump through all these technical hoops during the interview. But once you got there, and shared a corporate housing with the other interns , you learned that it was hard to get in as you were asian, worked your ass off, didn't nearly get invited to as many of the off hour happy hours and etc, and just plain ackward social vibe. But if you were African American intern roommate, you got to do the cool student intern events, parties, had a well organized mentor, well organized events specifically for all the african american interns there, a support network among other fellow AA interns and engineers,marketing, finance employees..And if you were like my white roommate, you were invited to all the happy hours, the chicago cubs games, after work softball, etc... Didn't need to slave away at the tectronox spectrum analyzer testing the gain of a recover before a deadline, got make a lot of cool powerpoint presentations about the much smaller job you did. And were guaranteed a full time job after you graduated from college the few days you had left with your internship.

I was only asked if I wanted to come back as a full time engineer several months later about 2 months before my graduation after I got a full time job at then rinky dink Qualcomm. There it was a painful interview... Directors, managers, engineers , the only thing the systems engineering group cared about was asking technical skilled questions. no bullshit 49ers questions and frankly no one at least in that dept gave a shit what color you were as long as you were good enough to answer all the questions .. I was sold....well at least until they decided to have all of us pull cables out of the base station equipment for testing 90% of the time as the primary job function.... And then when I tried to transfer into their software engineering group, met some bullshit excuse from that group why I couldn't... I guess because by that time, Qualcomm had slightly declined, hired a bunch of people for ailing Nortel and Motorola, and brought over some of that frat boy mentality into Qualcomm much easier software engineering group, since funny thing was many of them didnt require a master's degree and several years of work experience in software as I was told. and frankly couldn't code themselves out of a wet paper bag if their life depended on it ..hence why their base station business was an absymal failure and eventually sold to Ericcson. So I left there too, and went to the Bay area. (Probably cost me a fortune in stock options. ...slightly mitigated by two ipos up there, lol)

I think when I retire from this industry maybe in 1-2 years if they fire/lay me off with my half golden parachute, I'm contemplating publishing my memoirs on LinkedIn just to stir the pot:

"Memoirs of an Angry Asian American Engineer That Got Fucked Over Many Times By Unconscious and Conscious Bias "
Since at that point I won't give a shit which bridges I burn.

I would have a lot to say on both the general problem of these biases and how any sort of affirmative action is just lipstick on a pig and not really doing shit to solve the problem, just pretending to fix the problem..At least in engineering though, these biases don't bubble up nearly as frequently as in other industries , at least not until you get into senior leadership roles.

I would like to be your agent. I know i can sell that book.

Submitted by gzz on February 21, 2021 - 5:03pm.

I don’t know how HP is managed but I try to buy their products because in my experience they last longer and have a lot of nice design features.

At my first job here we mainly used HP laserjets that were 10+ years old and worked great. I purchased a p4014 and p3015 duplex network printers in 2008 and they don’t even get paper jams and have no problem with $22 brand toner cartridges.

All HP pcs have also lasted until they became out of date after 7-8 years. Some
even older as media servers and guest PCs. I also have HP monitors from 2005-6 that all work great. They have been demoted to side monitors but still have been used 5 days a week for 15 years. I thought one had died this year, turned out the power cord wore out and a new one fixed it.

Submitted by svelte on February 21, 2021 - 6:06pm.

Coronita wrote:

And it had a very ugly result...You see, throughout my career, I never ever sought a job with HP. I was celebrating when Carly Fiorina destroyed HP, and when many people at HP from that Palo alto office were looking for a job when I was still up there, I made sure to toss all their resumes in the trash can, among many reasons, many of their engineers had their head up in the clouds with that sorry excuse of a distributed software architecture called "e-Speak".... I never entertained a resume from Palo Alto HP. Neither did anyone in my group...never bought any office equipment from HP, or computer, or computer peripherals with HP label on it.

For me, there was no unconsciousness in my bias. I was young them, and didn't know better ..

So forgive me if I roll my eyes when someone mentions about how "diverse" they think they are champions of "diversity". In my experience, most of the time people who claim they are champions of diversity are most of the time full of shit and have a lot of unconscious biases lurking in their closets that either they don't realize or even if they do, don't care so long as they have something they can do to easily check the diversity box....

When I graduated with a CSCI degree in northern CA, HP did very heavy recruiting at my university and supplied most of the servers in our labs. We used bid points to do interviews, so I bid heavily on HP, Lockheed, and Chevron. I was young and stupid and didn't know that my GPA wasn't high enough to get hired by any of those companies. My GPA wasn't bad, it's just those companies wanted the very high end of the GPA curve and I wasn't it.

When I did land a job with another company, it was in San Diego and because of my college experience with HP equipment, I was assigned projects that developed software to run on HP servers. I worked with the HP reps very closely and got to like them a lot. They had a certain way of dressing, of acting, of caring for the customer and I began modeling myself after them. They were great guys and I think learning from them has helped me in my career.

At my company, the attitude everyone had was that HW developed by HP was very high quality, but any SW they put out to run on that HW was terrible. And it was. I went to several HP SW training courses at HP's Fullerton location and part of my mission was to ask for workarounds to the shortcomings of their SW. As it turns out, I knew more about their SW than HP instructors. One started turning to me for answers when other students asked questions! It was bizarre.

On to your bias comments. Completely agree - I have a great deal of skepticism when someone portrays themselves as unbiased. Quite often, it ends up being that they are biased in the other direction!

Everyone is biased. Whites, blacks, hispanics, asians, everyone. The best we can do, in my opinion, is to be aware of our biases and do our best to not act on them, to take them out of the equation. That is easier said that done, I know.

Submitted by an on February 21, 2021 - 6:30pm.

Coronita, I love it when people use racism as a solution for racism and conscious bias to fight unconscious bias.

Submitted by Coronita on February 21, 2021 - 7:22pm.

I don't disagree that in the past HP did use to sell high quality hardware products. At least before fiorina days.
I just chose not to use them because of their premium and arrogance and my personal bias

There eCommerce software division, on the other hand, was sort of a joke, which was the bulk of my limited involvement with them. Many people probably didn't even know they a had a ecom software group that tried to productize something in the past. It wasn't pretty. but some reason they got the idea that they were great with printers and computers, that e-commerce enterprise software would have been a walk in the park .Sort of like the mentality that intel had thinking they are great at x86, 5G LTE would be a walk in the park. It didn't end pretty for both companies.

As far as their printers goes. I definitely stayed away from HP when they started gouging their inkjet printer customers. One of there strategies was to sell printers at cost or even a small loss because they know they could make a lot money on the cartridges they sold. in fact, they were the ones put the chips in the cartridges that would make the cartridge expire early well before the useable ink that was still left inside. and then when there were refill companies designing ways to get around those inside the cartridges, they were also the companies that tried to sue under anti-piracy/theft laws to prevent people from defeating the cartridge expiration chips. They lost a few lawsuits over it if I recall...

I've been kinda a then Sun Microsystems, IBM/Lenovo, Epson , Brother kinda person...
I have had so many Brother laser printers that I bought for work and home. They just work so well, and their supplies are reasonably priced.
my latest color laser all in one is just awesome.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 21, 2021 - 8:35pm.

svelte wrote:
Coronita wrote:

And it had a very ugly result...You see, throughout my career, I never ever sought a job with HP. I was celebrating when Carly Fiorina destroyed HP, and when many people at HP from that Palo alto office were looking for a job when I was still up there, I made sure to toss all their resumes in the trash can, among many reasons, many of their engineers had their head up in the clouds with that sorry excuse of a distributed software architecture called "e-Speak".... I never entertained a resume from Palo Alto HP. Neither did anyone in my group...never bought any office equipment from HP, or computer, or computer peripherals with HP label on it.

For me, there was no unconsciousness in my bias. I was young them, and didn't know better ..

So forgive me if I roll my eyes when someone mentions about how "diverse" they think they are champions of "diversity". In my experience, most of the time people who claim they are champions of diversity are most of the time full of shit and have a lot of unconscious biases lurking in their closets that either they don't realize or even if they do, don't care so long as they have something they can do to easily check the diversity box....

When I graduated with a CSCI degree in northern CA, HP did very heavy recruiting at my university and supplied most of the servers in our labs. We used bid points to do interviews, so I bid heavily on HP, Lockheed, and Chevron. I was young and stupid and didn't know that my GPA wasn't high enough to get hired by any of those companies. My GPA wasn't bad, it's just those companies wanted the very high end of the GPA curve and I wasn't it.

When I did land a job with another company, it was in San Diego and because of my college experience with HP equipment, I was assigned projects that developed software to run on HP servers. I worked with the HP reps very closely and got to like them a lot. They had a certain way of dressing, of acting, of caring for the customer and I began modeling myself after them. They were great guys and I think learning from them has helped me in my career.

At my company, the attitude everyone had was that HW developed by HP was very high quality, but any SW they put out to run on that HW was terrible. And it was. I went to several HP SW training courses at HP's Fullerton location and part of my mission was to ask for workarounds to the shortcomings of their SW. As it turns out, I knew more about their SW than HP instructors. One started turning to me for answers when other students asked questions! It was bizarre.

On to your bias comments. Completely agree - I have a great deal of skepticism when someone portrays themselves as unbiased. Quite often, it ends up being that they are biased in the other direction!

Everyone is biased. Whites, blacks, hispanics, asians, everyone. The best we can do, in my opinion, is to be aware of our biases and do our best to not act on them, to take them out of the equation. That is easier said that done, I know.

Snap judgments, biases, stereotypes rule the day in jury selection. Unless a potential black juror is military, law enforcement, or blatantly pro-cop, watch the prosecutor twist themselves into a pretzel trying to find a way to kick them off.

Submitted by svelte on February 22, 2021 - 7:50am.

scaredyclassic wrote:

Snap judgments, biases, stereotypes rule the day in jury selection. Unless a potential black juror is military, law enforcement, or blatantly pro-cop, watch the prosecutor twist themselves into a pretzel trying to find a way to kick them off.

That's not a one-way street. I've had fellow engineers complain that defense attorneys kick them out of jury pools because (in their opinion) it appears they think engineers will weigh scientific evidence (blood tests, etc) heavily when making a decision.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 22, 2021 - 8:22am.

svelte wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:

Snap judgments, biases, stereotypes rule the day in jury selection. Unless a potential black juror is military, law enforcement, or blatantly pro-cop, watch the prosecutor twist themselves into a pretzel trying to find a way to kick them off.

That's not a one-way street. I've had fellow engineers complain that defense attorneys kick them out of jury pools because (in their opinion) it appears they think engineers will weigh scientific evidence (blood tests, etc) heavily when making a decision.

Absolutely. Too thoughtful. Gone. Teachers, not too deep, love rules, authority figures. In. Unless black-- out.

Defense lawyer: any black person: in. Accuse prosecutor of racism for kicking blacks.

The utter simplistic stupidity of it all makes one think.

Submitted by Coronita on February 22, 2021 - 10:06am.

Damn, maybe next time I get called for jury duty, I need to stop wearing my t-shirt that says "guilty as charged" ??

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 22, 2021 - 10:12am.

If you want to get off, all you have to do is honestly say, i cant be fair. Can you honestly say that?

Submitted by Coronita on February 22, 2021 - 10:31am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
If you want to get off, all you have to do is honestly say, i cant be fair. Can you honestly say that?

Sure, but when I was on chemo, I had a temporary medical excuse. I think though, that temporary excuse ended up being permanent.

But the one time I was doing jury duty, I remember the trial was for this lady that shoplifted some feminine hygiene products. Honestly, I was the the last possible jury candidate in the court, and was never called. But if I was, I probably would have said something to the effect that I probably wouldn't be the best candidate because I fail to see why we need to spend so time and energy to go through with a trial over shoplifting feminine hygiene products. Couldn't we settle this outside of court with some community service and probation?

Submitted by an on February 22, 2021 - 3:02pm.

Coronita, I had a very similar case. It wasn't of a woman still feminine hygiene, but it was a small $ amount theft. I straight up said I think this is a waste of everyone's time and $. I was excused soon after.

Submitted by ucodegen on February 22, 2021 - 4:05pm.

Coronita wrote:

When it comes to education and career opportunities, the average Asian male of course is white. that's why things like sca-5 and prop 16 conveniently disregard asians as minorities. Prop 16, which ironically got defeated because not only asians overwhelming voted against it , but so did latinos....I guess now because both asians and latinos make up a large percentage or UC and CalState demographics based on merit, both groups really don't want any sort of government heavy hand changing that....lol.

The same applies to career opportunities and education for those of Indian (not American Indian, but those of East Indies descent). This is why my comment of 'black... but not black'. Somehow there are people of 'color' that have managed to be successful as a race in the current job market. None of the current racial equality activists seems to want to ask themselves why (maybe it is an uncomfortable question). These same people decry income disparities but do not look at what education paths that different races tend towards. I went through college initially as a Physics major, 3rd year I switched to EECE because of career opportunities. I had already been programming computers since I was 14 - since mid '70s - easy transition. Within those course fields (Physics, EE, EECE, CS), I only saw one person of black descent in my classes or classes I TA'd. Most students of black descent were in Sociology, Linguistic and some in Psychology. One's choice of major can significantly affect future income. I don't think those racial equality activists want to look at this aspect. If the real solution was known and used, there would not be much to demand funding or special set-asides for. Choices in life really matter.

Coronita wrote:
Is an asian american male being denied senior management positions at tech firms simply because he isn't a big NFL or NBA fan or a frat boy?

I'm not asian, however I ran into this problem at one of my previous job. The promotion path was through the company's golf club. (Senior Management was... very senior). Sales staff and some other upper management was very NFL/NBA/MBL. Being a gear-head though, did not help much with upwards job mobility, and I suspect that these days it helps even less. That all said, my investments have ended up making me more each year than any two years or more together on the W-2 job.. and much less stress than the W-2. Any failures on investments are not caused by anyone else and then pushed off on me to fix. I also don't get such comments on salary review where I am blamed for "Gold Bricking" a project at the same time told that my actions are responsible for saving the company a lot of time and money by doing work that does not need any rework as well as the ability to get the job done difficult projects.

an wrote:
Coronita, when it comes to higher education, it's worst being Asian than white.
I would have to disagree with you there. A surprising number of white families do not pull together to help their college bound students.

Submitted by sdrealtor on February 22, 2021 - 5:46pm.

I think he was referring to admission policies. Honestly hearing these stories makes my heart ache for the unfairness. At the same time I wonder if some of this has to do with being first genereation American born or immigrants. Im not saying its fair but people like to work with people like them and the more recent arrivals are less assimilated to Amercian culture. Looking at friends that are second generation American born many are diehard fans of the American pro sports, golf etc. They interact seamlessly with us "white folk" whereas the first generation ones struggle more. I wonder if just being here a few generations has something to do with ones ability to socially network. Again not saying its right or fair but Id hypothosize that your kids may have an easier time just due to being more assimilated to American culture their whole lives.

Submitted by an on February 22, 2021 - 7:06pm.

ucodegen wrote:
an wrote:
Coronita, when it comes to higher education, it's worst being Asian than white.
I would have to disagree with you there. A surprising number of white families do not pull together to help their college bound students.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're assuming at all Asians are the same. There's a huge difference between Chinese/Korean/Japanese with highly educated parents immigrant vs Hmong, Laotian, Cambodian who in general don't value education as much. But colleges don't ask what was your socio-economic status or what kind of Asian you are.

Search up the term "Jungle Asian".

As the Yale lawsuit shows, you're 1/10 likely to get into Yale as an Asian compare to Black, but only 1/4 less likely if you're White. So, as a whole, you're worst off being Asian.

Submitted by an on February 22, 2021 - 6:47pm.

sdrealtor wrote:
I think he was referring to admission policies. Honestly hearing these stories makes my heart ache for the unfairness. At the same time I wonder if some of this has to do with being first genereation American born or immigrants. Im not saying its fair but people like to work with people like them and the more recent arrivals are less assimilated to Amercian culture. Looking at friends that are second generation American born many are diehard fans of the American pro sports, golf etc. They interact seamlessly with us "white folk" whereas the first generation ones struggle more. I wonder if just being here a few generations has something to do with ones ability to socially network. Again not saying its right or fair but Id hypothosize that your kids may have an easier time just due to being more assimilated to American culture their whole lives.

Assimilation can only take you so far. If you're Asian w/ an Asian last name, you'll still be discriminated at top tier universities (except for UC, since affirmative action was removed 20ish years ago. But democrats here have been proposing to bring it back for the last few years) when applying, or when applying for a job in tech. I had one boss tell me diversity is not hiring all Asian male and that I need to try harder to increase the diversity of my team.

This would only be a non-issue if you're a mix race and hide your Asian-ness.

Submitted by svelte on February 22, 2021 - 8:16pm.

Coronita wrote:
I don't disagree that in the past HP did use to sell high quality hardware products. At least before fiorina days.

We never talk HP at home, but my wife out of the blue today said what a piece of crap her new HP printer is as she tried to print something.

I said funny you should mention HP quality, we were just discussing that online!

Submitted by Coronita on February 22, 2021 - 8:28pm.

svelte wrote:
Coronita wrote:
I don't disagree that in the past HP did use to sell high quality hardware products. At least before fiorina days.

We never talk HP at home, but my wife out of the blue today said what a piece of crap her new HP printer is as she tried to print something.

I said funny you should mention HP quality, we were just discussing that online!

For laser....Get a Brother printer. They are so we'll built, affordable, and supplies are so reasonably priced.

Submitted by ucodegen on February 22, 2021 - 8:57pm.

an wrote:
You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're assuming at all Asians are the same. There's a huge difference between Chinese/Korean/Japanese with highly educated parents immigrant vs Hmong, Laotian, Cambodian who in general don't value education as much.

I do know that there is a significant difference between the different 'Asians'. One thing that tends to be more significant overall is the tendency to help family members. It is something that I am seeing getting lost in white and black families these days... of course there are always exceptions.

an wrote:
As the Yale lawsuit shows, you're 1/10 likely to get into Yale as an Asian compare to Black, but only 1/4 less likely if you're White. So, as a whole, you're worst off being Asian.

Reference for the statistics??
BTW; I assume you are referring to this lawsuit.. ???
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/03/politics/...

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