ot halloween candy haul

User Forum Topic
Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 31, 2013 - 6:05pm

Submitted by mike92104 on October 31, 2013 - 8:11pm.

Only in CA

Submitted by spdrun on October 31, 2013 - 8:17pm.

It can be deducted as a business expense if it's used to throw at things next Mischief Night :)

Submitted by NotCranky on November 1, 2013 - 8:44am.

My wife and I tax it very heavily. The kids get to pick 5 pieces each. The rest , most of it anyway, is given away.

Submitted by Coronita on November 1, 2013 - 9:59am.

My kid got two buckets of candy last night after walking around for 1 1/2 hrs.

I took one of the buckets and gave it to one of my neighbor's kid who was too lazy to go out and trick o treat himself.

When my kid cried, pouted that wasn't fair, and asked why, I explained to her that she's too rich and we needed to redistribute half of her candy to people who didn't have any candy last night because they didn't want to walk up and down the hill for 1 1/2 hr....

I'm kidding....I'm kidding.....

I didn't actually give one of the buckets away....
I just pretended like I was going to so she would know what it feels like so she would get use to it later....

I'm kidding... I'm kidding... Sort of....

Submitted by zk on November 1, 2013 - 11:22am.

flu wrote:
My kid got two buckets of candy last night after walking around for 1 1/2 hrs.

I took one of the buckets and gave it to one of my neighbor's kid who was too lazy to go out and trick o treat himself.

When my kid cried, pouted that wasn't fair, and asked why, I explained to her that she's too rich and we needed to redistribute half of her candy to people who didn't have any candy last night because they didn't want to walk up and down the hill for 1 1/2 hr....

I'm kidding....I'm kidding.....

I didn't actually give one of the buckets away....
I just pretended like I was going to so she would know what it feels like so she would get use to it later....

I'm kidding... I'm kidding... Sort of....

Your half kidding. I get it. Nonetheless, this is a typical conservative's view of the intentions of liberals. Tax the hard-working well-off and give to the lazy poor.

Following is how I see it. (Not that this is a typical liberal view. Or, necessarily a liberal view at all).

Picture two kids. One is born in Carmel Valley. The other in Watts. They're both near the middle of the lazy to hard-working spectrum. Both of average to a bit above average intelligence. The kid from CV gets Bs and some As, goes to SDSU, gets a job as an accountant. His sister does something similar. The kid from Watts ends up in a gang, gets shot in the leg, the taxpayers pay for his surgery, and eventually he winds up with a minimum wage job that is supplemented by food stamps. His sister has a kid, there's no father around, and she's on welfare.

The kids from CV are paying taxes to support the kids from Watts. But are those kids really that different from each other? Let's say, hypothetically, that we could have identical twins raised separately in these situations (except the ones in Watts would appear black/hispanic and the ones in CV would appear white/asian). In fact, let's just switch gene pools entirely between CV and Watts. Does anybody think the outcome would be different from how it is now? Would the kid with the white/asian genes turn out any different from the kids with the black/hispanic genes?

Now, I know that no one is suggesting that racial differences have anything to do with it. And neither am I. The point I’m trying to make is that it’s the environment that you grow up in that has everything to do with it. Why do the kids from Watts generally end up taking government support while the kids from Carmel Valley pay for it? If it’s not their genes, it has to be their environment. Right? It’s not because they’re lazy. And if it is, it’s because their environment encouraged that attitude.

Sure, a kid from Watts has the opportunity to make it out of the ghetto. He can get good grades. He can go to UC. He can be an accountant. But for him to do that from Watts would take a great deal more… I don’t know… rebelliousness, focus, fortitude. Self motivation. The kid from CV has his parents hounding him to do his homework and practice his violin. The kid from Watts… generally not as much. He’s much more likely to have to do it by himself. His parents aren’t really placing an emphasis on education. So your occasional special kid will make it out. But the general population is going to turn out people who are expensive to the taxpayers.

Yes, these are generalizations. Not every family in Watts doesn’t emphasize education. Not every family in CV does (At least I don’t think they do. Every family I know does). But these are probably pretty accurate generalizations. In Watts, you can avoid the gangs if you try. I’d imagine, though, for a 15-year-old boy who’s father isn’t around, it’s pretty hard. In Carmel Valley, you’d really have to go out of your way to join a gang. And if you did and your dad or, god forbid, your tiger mom found out…

So right now, I imagine the conservatives are focusing on the “And if it is (because they’re lazy), it’s because their environment encouraged that attitude” comment. And let’s go ahead and add uneducated and unskilled to lazy, because their environment produced that, as well. (Actually, lazy isn't the exact word I'm looking for. More like "disinclined to work at a job and to take the steps necessary to contribute to society." Which is different. But lazy is close enough, so I'll use that.) So, at this point, you could say, “I don’t care why they’re lazy. They’re lazy. I don’t want to pay for their food stamps.” Ok, but then what happens? They’re hungry and they don’t have jobs. Doesn’t take Nostradamus to see what happens after that.

So, assuming that the same population raised in Carmel Valley will turn out differently from if it was raised in Watts, what’s the solution?

Well, it’s not to keep doing what we’re doing or to give them more free assistance. Because that's not going to change anything and it's going to cost a lot of money. Nonetheless, this is a view that some liberals hold. And it’s not to just say “fuck them” and hope for the best. Because, while that might save some money in the short run, it is not a viable long-term strategy. To hope that the underclass will say, "well, the jig is up. Gotta get a job now and start contributing to society" is a pipe dream. Nonetheless, this is a view that some conservatives hold.

I think the solution is (and I’ve said this before in this forum) to change their environment and their culture and their access to education. This would obviously be a difficult, expensive, and, in the case of their culture, very politically incorrect thing to attempt. But what choice do we have?

Submitted by Coronita on November 1, 2013 - 12:11pm.

zk wrote:
flu wrote:
My kid got two buckets of candy last night after walking around for 1 1/2 hrs.

I took one of the buckets and gave it to one of my neighbor's kid who was too lazy to go out and trick o treat himself.

When my kid cried, pouted that wasn't fair, and asked why, I explained to her that she's too rich and we needed to redistribute half of her candy to people who didn't have any candy last night because they didn't want to walk up and down the hill for 1 1/2 hr....

I'm kidding....I'm kidding.....

I didn't actually give one of the buckets away....
I just pretended like I was going to so she would know what it feels like so she would get use to it later....

I'm kidding... I'm kidding... Sort of....

Your half kidding. I get it. Nonetheless, this is a typical conservative's view of the intentions of liberals. Tax the hard-working well-off and give to the lazy poor.

Following is how I see it. (Not that this is a typical liberal view. Or, necessarily a liberal view at all).

Picture two kids. One is born in Carmel Valley. The other in Watts. They're both near the middle of the lazy to hard-working spectrum. Both of average to a bit above average intelligence. The kid from CV gets Bs and some As, goes to SDSU, gets a job as an accountant. His sister does something similar. The kid from Watts ends up in a gang, gets shot in the leg, the taxpayers pay for his surgery, and eventually he winds up with a minimum wage job that is supplemented by food stamps. His sister has a kid, there's no father around, and she's on welfare.

The kids from CV are paying taxes to support the kids from Watts. But are those kids really that different from each other? Let's say, hypothetically, that we could have identical twins raised separately in these situations (except the ones in Watts would appear black/hispanic and the ones in CV would appear white/asian). In fact, let's just switch gene pools entirely between CV and Watts. Does anybody think the outcome would be different from how it is now? Would the kid with the white/asian genes turn out any different from the kids with the black/hispanic genes?

Now, I know that no one is suggesting that racial differences have anything to do with it. And neither am I. The point I’m trying to make is that it’s the environment that you grow up in that has everything to do with it. Why do the kids from Watts generally end up taking government support while the kids from Carmel Valley pay for it? If it’s not their genes, it has to be their environment. Right? It’s not because they’re lazy. And if it is, it’s because their environment encouraged that attitude.

Sure, a kid from Watts has the opportunity to make it out of the ghetto. He can get good grades. He can go to UC. He can be an accountant. But for him to do that from Watts would take a great deal more… I don’t know… rebelliousness, focus, fortitude. Self motivation. The kid from CV has his parents hounding him to do his homework and practice his violin. The kid from Watts… generally not as much. He’s much more likely to have to do it by himself. His parents aren’t really placing an emphasis on education. So your occasional special kid will make it out. But the general population is going to turn out people who are expensive to the taxpayers.

Yes, these are generalizations. Not every family in Watts doesn’t emphasize education. Not every family in CV does (At least I don’t think they do. Every family I know does). But these are probably pretty accurate generalizations. In Watts, you can avoid the gangs if you try. I’d imagine, though, for a 15-year-old boy who’s father isn’t around, it’s pretty hard. In Carmel Valley, you’d really have to go out of your way to join a gang. And if you did and your dad or, god forbid, your tiger mom found out…

So right now, I imagine the conservatives are focusing on the “And if it is (because they’re lazy), it’s because their environment encouraged that attitude” comment. And let’s go ahead and add uneducated and unskilled to lazy, because their environment produced that, as well. (Actually, lazy isn't the exact word I'm looking for. More like "disinclined to work at a job and to take the steps necessary to contribute to society." Which is different. But lazy is close enough, so I'll use that.) So, at this point, you could say, “I don’t care why they’re lazy. They’re lazy. I don’t want to pay for their food stamps.” Ok, but then what happens? They’re hungry and they don’t have jobs. Doesn’t take Nostradamus to see what happens after that.

So, assuming that the same population raised in Carmel Valley will turn out differently from if it was raised in Watts, what’s the solution?

Well, it’s not to keep doing what we’re doing or to give them more free assistance. Because that's not going to change anything and it's going to cost a lot of money. Nonetheless, this is a view that some liberals hold. And it’s not to just say “fuck them” and hope for the best. Because, while that might save some money in the short run, it is not a viable long-term strategy. To hope that the underclass will say, "well, the jig is up. Gotta get a job now and start contributing to society" is a pipe dream. Nonetheless, this is a view that some conservatives hold.

I think the solution is (and I’ve said this before in this forum) to change their environment and their culture and their access to education. This would obviously be a difficult, expensive, and, in the case of their culture, very politically incorrect thing to attempt. But what choice do we have?

Ok come on zk. Lighten up...No rich or poor or middle class or whatever people got hurt last night...

And sorry, where in my joke did I mention anything about Watts and race?

Why do people like to turn every ribbing of a joke about something they don't like to hear into race?

Last time I checked being "lazy" was a race and gender neutral thing.

Where does something unrelated race get dragged into a race issue? Or are you starting to generalize about people of certain races?????

Are people starting to ban jokes as well as guns now?

Generalize much?

Submitted by zk on November 1, 2013 - 5:20pm.

flu wrote:

Ok come on zk. Lighten up...No rich or poor or middle class or whatever people got hurt last night...

And sorry, where in my joke did I mention anything about Watts and race?

Why do people like to turn every ribbing of a joke about something they don't like to hear into race?

Last time I checked being "lazy" was a race and gender neutral thing.

Where does something unrelated race get dragged into a race issue? Or are you starting to generalize about people of certain races?????

Are people starting to ban jokes as well as guns now?

Generalize much?

I only mentioned race because my hypothetical wouldn’t really work with an Asian kid in Watts with Hispanic parents. As I said, race doesn’t have anything to do with it. You must have missed that part.

Even though I said race doesn’t have anything to do with it, in so many words, you accused me of turning your joke into a race issue several times. You’re a real pain in the ass. And your reading skills are seriously lacking. You and AN, who also “misses” important parts of my posts and responds with lame non sequiturs and nonsense. Maybe it’s an Asian thing. Just kidding. Sort of. Maybe.

Flu, you’re a conservative. Unless I miss my mark, you view the liberal philosophy as “tax the hard-working well-off and give to the lazy poor.” And, again unless I miss my mark, you’re philosophy would be to do less of both. You certainly do a lot of bitching and moaning about liberals. But if you don’t have any better ideas or you can't defend the ones you have, then why don’t you just keep your whiny cynicism to yourself?

Submitted by flyer on November 1, 2013 - 6:04pm.

With no political implications intended, IMO, the sad thing is that all young people are going to be burdened with our nation's debt and other issues by varying degrees, and even those from wealthy families may find their dreams unattainable.

Using my kid's friends in their 20's and early 30's as a barometer, we're currently seeing about a 50/50 success rate (i.e.--getting their dream job, buying a home, etc.) playing out in their lives. At this point it time it's difficult to know if things will get better or worse for them in the future, but, again, IMO, a life of unfulfilled dreams isn't much of a life--regardless of your financial situation.

Submitted by Coronita on November 1, 2013 - 6:26pm.

zk wrote:
flu wrote:

Ok come on zk. Lighten up...No rich or poor or middle class or whatever people got hurt last night...

And sorry, where in my joke did I mention anything about Watts and race?

Why do people like to turn every ribbing of a joke about something they don't like to hear into race?

Last time I checked being "lazy" was a race and gender neutral thing.

Where does something unrelated race get dragged into a race issue? Or are you starting to generalize about people of certain races?????

Are people starting to ban jokes as well as guns now?

Generalize much?

I only mentioned race because my hypothetical wouldn’t really work with an Asian kid in Watts with Hispanic parents. As I said, race doesn’t have anything to do with it. You must have missed that part.

Even though I said race doesn’t have anything to do with it, in so many words, you accused me of turning your joke into a race issue several times. You’re a real pain in the ass. And your reading skills are seriously lacking. You and AN, who also “misses” important parts of my posts and responds with lame non sequiturs and nonsense. Maybe it’s an Asian thing. Just kidding. Sort of. Maybe.

Flu, you’re a conservative. Unless I miss my mark, you view the liberal philosophy as “tax the hard-working well-off and give to the lazy poor.” And, again unless I miss my mark, you’re philosophy would be to do less of both. You certainly do a lot of bitching and moaning about liberals. But if you don’t have any better ideas or you can't defend the ones you have, then why don’t you just keep your whiny cynicism to yourself?

Exercising my constitutional right to express my opinion and free speech. That's still allowed, right?

I got a better idea. If you don't like what people say, you can hit the ignore button. Which is fine by me.

Since when am I "whining?" here (besides the affordability part in CarmelV)...

Actually, it's pretty funny that you throw the "conservative" label around. Since people who know me probably can tell you I'm as socially open minded more than you think. Of course, I do believe in a sense of personal responsibility when it comes to finances. Which i think is what this real estate blog was all about...Maybe you forgot about that portion, because maybe you haven't been along long enough.

Financial stupidity isn't a conservative versus liberal thing. Unless you want to equate financial stupidity to being liberal..

See, you know what your problem is? You don't mind dishing it out to people who differ opinions or jab at things, but oh no, when someone says something that rubs you the wrong way, you need to put yourself on a high and mighty soap box and give people a lecture and you immediately attach the conservative label to anything that goes against the grain of your thinking. Pretty open minded there... Pretty entertaining...

Also, pretty open minded there that you keep bringing race into this.

And what do you mean "It wouldn't work with Asian kid in Watts with Hispanic parents" as you say?

Are you,again generalizing that every single asian is born into a well educated, high income/ upper middle class. And are you also suggesting that no asians are poor, no asians are lazy, and hence no asians would "fit"?

Like I said, generalize much?

Submitted by CA renter on November 1, 2013 - 6:41pm.

zk wrote:
flu wrote:
My kid got two buckets of candy last night after walking around for 1 1/2 hrs.

I took one of the buckets and gave it to one of my neighbor's kid who was too lazy to go out and trick o treat himself.

When my kid cried, pouted that wasn't fair, and asked why, I explained to her that she's too rich and we needed to redistribute half of her candy to people who didn't have any candy last night because they didn't want to walk up and down the hill for 1 1/2 hr....

I'm kidding....I'm kidding.....

I didn't actually give one of the buckets away....
I just pretended like I was going to so she would know what it feels like so she would get use to it later....

I'm kidding... I'm kidding... Sort of....

Your half kidding. I get it. Nonetheless, this is a typical conservative's view of the intentions of liberals. Tax the hard-working well-off and give to the lazy poor.

Following is how I see it. (Not that this is a typical liberal view. Or, necessarily a liberal view at all).

Picture two kids. One is born in Carmel Valley. The other in Watts. They're both near the middle of the lazy to hard-working spectrum. Both of average to a bit above average intelligence. The kid from CV gets Bs and some As, goes to SDSU, gets a job as an accountant. His sister does something similar. The kid from Watts ends up in a gang, gets shot in the leg, the taxpayers pay for his surgery, and eventually he winds up with a minimum wage job that is supplemented by food stamps. His sister has a kid, there's no father around, and she's on welfare.

The kids from CV are paying taxes to support the kids from Watts. But are those kids really that different from each other? Let's say, hypothetically, that we could have identical twins raised separately in these situations (except the ones in Watts would appear black/hispanic and the ones in CV would appear white/asian). In fact, let's just switch gene pools entirely between CV and Watts. Does anybody think the outcome would be different from how it is now? Would the kid with the white/asian genes turn out any different from the kids with the black/hispanic genes?

Now, I know that no one is suggesting that racial differences have anything to do with it. And neither am I. The point I’m trying to make is that it’s the environment that you grow up in that has everything to do with it. Why do the kids from Watts generally end up taking government support while the kids from Carmel Valley pay for it? If it’s not their genes, it has to be their environment. Right? It’s not because they’re lazy. And if it is, it’s because their environment encouraged that attitude.

Sure, a kid from Watts has the opportunity to make it out of the ghetto. He can get good grades. He can go to UC. He can be an accountant. But for him to do that from Watts would take a great deal more… I don’t know… rebelliousness, focus, fortitude. Self motivation. The kid from CV has his parents hounding him to do his homework and practice his violin. The kid from Watts… generally not as much. He’s much more likely to have to do it by himself. His parents aren’t really placing an emphasis on education. So your occasional special kid will make it out. But the general population is going to turn out people who are expensive to the taxpayers.

Yes, these are generalizations. Not every family in Watts doesn’t emphasize education. Not every family in CV does (At least I don’t think they do. Every family I know does). But these are probably pretty accurate generalizations. In Watts, you can avoid the gangs if you try. I’d imagine, though, for a 15-year-old boy who’s father isn’t around, it’s pretty hard. In Carmel Valley, you’d really have to go out of your way to join a gang. And if you did and your dad or, god forbid, your tiger mom found out…

So right now, I imagine the conservatives are focusing on the “And if it is (because they’re lazy), it’s because their environment encouraged that attitude” comment. And let’s go ahead and add uneducated and unskilled to lazy, because their environment produced that, as well. (Actually, lazy isn't the exact word I'm looking for. More like "disinclined to work at a job and to take the steps necessary to contribute to society." Which is different. But lazy is close enough, so I'll use that.) So, at this point, you could say, “I don’t care why they’re lazy. They’re lazy. I don’t want to pay for their food stamps.” Ok, but then what happens? They’re hungry and they don’t have jobs. Doesn’t take Nostradamus to see what happens after that.

So, assuming that the same population raised in Carmel Valley will turn out differently from if it was raised in Watts, what’s the solution?

Well, it’s not to keep doing what we’re doing or to give them more free assistance. Because that's not going to change anything and it's going to cost a lot of money. Nonetheless, this is a view that some liberals hold. And it’s not to just say “fuck them” and hope for the best. Because, while that might save some money in the short run, it is not a viable long-term strategy. To hope that the underclass will say, "well, the jig is up. Gotta get a job now and start contributing to society" is a pipe dream. Nonetheless, this is a view that some conservatives hold.

I think the solution is (and I’ve said this before in this forum) to change their environment and their culture and their access to education. This would obviously be a difficult, expensive, and, in the case of their culture, very politically incorrect thing to attempt. But what choice do we have?

Good post, zk. I'm also amused by the tendency of those on the conservative side to complain a lot, but they never have any viable alternatives. "Let them get sick and die on the sidewalks," or "If they don't have a social safety net, they'll work harder" are not viable alternatives; there is no evidence anywhere in history that shows this type of society/economy is better than a more egalitarian and compassionate society/economy.

I think we also need to work more with whatever talents people have and begin valuing the jobs that benefit society most. Currently, some idiot who creates a company like Facebook is idolized and compensated better than a teacher, doctor, etc. Trying to force everyone into a few career categories isn't good for our economic and social systems.

Submitted by Coronita on November 1, 2013 - 6:59pm.

...geesh...

Only 367 days left...

...couldn't come any sooner....

Submitted by Coronita on November 1, 2013 - 7:14pm.

CA renter wrote:

Good post, zk. I'm also amused by the tendency of those on the conservative side to complain a lot, but they never have any viable alternatives. "Let them get sick and die on the sidewalks," or "If they don't have a social safety net, they'll work harder" are not viable alternatives; there is no evidence anywhere in history that shows this type of society/economy is better than a more egalitarian and compassionate society/economy.

Lol, you folks keep equating poor = lazy? Where do you folks get that idea from?

Where did anywhere anyone say anything about poor = lazy... Plenty of "poor(er)" people are not lazy. And plenty of poor people strive every day to try to better themselves.

FWIW: if I actuall thought poor people were lazy, I don't think I would be spending my free time doing other people's resume, cover letters, and mock interviews for people who are unemployed. Nor would I be spending a heck of a lot of time volunteering in the public school systems.

But I am curious. When was the last time either of you tried to help just 1 complete stranger find a job?

Like I said..
Generalize much?

Submitted by joec on November 1, 2013 - 7:17pm.

flu wrote:

Ok come on zk. Lighten up...No rich or poor or middle class or whatever people got hurt last night...

And sorry, where in my joke did I mention anything about Watts and race?

Why do people like to turn every ribbing of a joke about something they don't like to hear into race?

Last time I checked being "lazy" was a race and gender neutral thing.

Where does something unrelated race get dragged into a race issue? Or are you starting to generalize about people of certain races?????

Are people starting to ban jokes as well as guns now?

Generalize much?

Being asian myself, I think the point zk was making and what I got from reading it is that success in people's lives have more to do with their environment and "luck" than from working hard or anything about that person to begin with. Going to a better school, being raised in CA and silicon valley, LA, etc. vs. some mid-west town where everyone married their high school sweetheart instead of going to college is a far better predictor of success than IQ tests and all that.

Based on everything I've learned in life so far, I'm a far bigger believer in this myself as well.

I don't see any racial slam in zk's message at all and didn't get feel that was his point neither.

I feel this way because having worked in SV in the bay area and having some success with companies/start ups and IPOs, money, etc and moving to other fields and seeing what "real people" make for income/etc...and having been laid off in the past as well, until you see it yourself, people tend to generalize and have that attitude about everyone being "lazy" "bum" etc...

The point about the Watts black kid being just as smart as the CV asian kid has been proven in studies where they put economically challenged kids in a more nurturing structured environment and they do just as well as the wealthy kid.

It really has to do with their perception of what's possible, what they experience, see, etc...This is why you have people say they want all kids to get government day care, etc...
That's not something I'd support since we don't have the money for it, but at birth, someone starts off way ahead in life based on the luck of what family they are born in.

I don't doubt that if I was born from a low class family, I would certainly have done a ton worst in terms of financial and economic success. Main thing I see is I don't really feel that driven compared to people you see from foreign countries such as India/Asia since their lives are a lot worst. I see this in TONS of native US born Americans as well. OF COURSE, THIS IS NOT EVERYONE, but the whole attitude is very different with the whining, etc in work compared to just sucking it up.

That said, eventually, the CV kid will eventually revert to the norm of the typical American and be of mediocre success.

Sorta like with EVERY, literally Asian friend/famiy I know, I see the parents helping them with their home downpayment in EVERY instance (I didn't get that though)...It allows them to keep them in the better schools and repeat the success cycle of life. And we're taking to the tune of 250k - 1 mil in housing purchases here...

I haven't read this book yet, but been meaning to read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell

http://gladwell.com/outliers/

"
There is a story that is usually told about extremely successful people, a story that focuses on intelligence and ambition. Gladwell argues that the true story of success is very different, and that if we want to understand how some people thrive, we should spend more time looking around them-at such things as their family, their birthplace, or even their birth date. And in revealing that hidden logic, Gladwell presents a fascinating and provocative blueprint for making the most of human potential.
"

Submitted by Coronita on November 1, 2013 - 7:40pm.

joec wrote:
flu wrote:

Ok come on zk. Lighten up...No rich or poor or middle class or whatever people got hurt last night...

And sorry, where in my joke did I mention anything about Watts and race?

Why do people like to turn every ribbing of a joke about something they don't like to hear into race?

Last time I checked being "lazy" was a race and gender neutral thing.

Where does something unrelated race get dragged into a race issue? Or are you starting to generalize about people of certain races?????

Are people starting to ban jokes as well as guns now?

Generalize much?

Being asian myself, I think the point zk was making and what I got from reading it is that success in people's lives have more to do with their environment and "luck" than from working hard or anything about that person to begin with. Going to a better school, being raised in CA and silicon valley, LA, etc. vs. some mid-west town where everyone married their high school sweetheart instead of going to college is a far better predictor of success than IQ tests and all that.

Based on everything I've learned in life so far, I'm a far bigger believer in this myself as well.

I don't see any racial slam in zk's message at all and didn't get feel that was his point neither.

I feel this way because having worked in SV in the bay area and having some success with companies/start ups and IPOs, money, etc and moving to other fields and seeing what "real people" make for income/etc...and having been laid off in the past as well, until you see it yourself, people tend to generalize and have that attitude about everyone being "lazy" "bum" etc...

The point about the Watts black kid being just as smart as the CV asian kid has been proven in studies where they put economically challenged kids in a more nurturing structured environment and they do just as well as the wealthy kid.

It really has to do with their perception of what's possible, what they experience, see, etc...This is why you have people say they want all kids to get government day care, etc...
That's not something I'd support since we don't have the money for it, but at birth, someone starts off way ahead in life based on the luck of what family they are born in.

I don't doubt that if I was born from a low class family, I would certainly have done a ton worst in terms of financial and economic success. Main thing I see is I don't really feel that driven compared to people you see from foreign countries such as India/Asia since their lives are a lot worst. I see this in TONS of native US born Americans as well. OF COURSE, THIS IS NOT EVERYONE, but the whole attitude is very different with the whining, etc in work compared to just sucking it up.

That said, eventually, the CV kid will eventually revert to the norm of the typical American and be of mediocre success.

Sorta like with EVERY, literally Asian friend/famiy I know, I see the parents helping them with their home downpayment in EVERY instance (I didn't get that though)...It allows them to keep them in the better schools and repeat the success cycle of life. And we're taking to the tune of 250k - 1 mil in housing purchases here...

I haven't read this book yet, but been meaning to read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell

http://gladwell.com/outliers/

"
There is a story that is usually told about extremely successful people, a story that focuses on intelligence and ambition. Gladwell argues that the true story of success is very different, and that if we want to understand how some people thrive, we should spend more time looking around them-at such things as their family, their birthplace, or even their birth date. And in revealing that hidden logic, Gladwell presents a fascinating and provocative blueprint for making the most of human potential.
"

I agree part luck. The other half is effort.

Why do people keep bringing race into this thing?
Joec, why do you have to say "as an asian myself"?
Sorry, I don't care of you're blue it wouldn't make a difference.

It was a frickin joke. Jesus f..ing Christ.
There... I'm not a conservative bible humper afterall.

I'm entitled to my opinion. Everyone else, you're entitled to yours. Last time I check opinions and jokes are still protected under the Constitution, what's left of it at least.

Look, if people what to actually do something about the poor and unemployed. Then get off your fvcking ass and go volunteer your free time and do something about it. Work hours and hours rewriting someone's fvcking resume and cover letter, or write it for them because they don't know that one needs to be done. And then go through a few rounds of mock interviews with them so they have a better chance at a limited job. And then IF you have free time, volunteer at your public schools for the kids that need extra help, that is even if you send your kids to a public school....

You folks are right. There are plenty of people hungry for work and deserve a shot at opportunity. Not the ones that just sit on their ass all day just saying "we should tax people more, you go do it please.."

Not that people's taxes are really going up *that* much. Considering this administration just like the previous administration is basically rewarding the rich and well off ANYWAY with low interest loans that only well qualified people can get, and re-inflating dirt cheap assets from 2009 all the way back up to pre-bubble levels now in 2013. So contrary, to opinions, I think things are going just swell, not that I'm a big proponent of what everyone else seems to want...

Submitted by flyer on November 1, 2013 - 7:44pm.

Good points, flu. Great to hear how you're helping others.

Because we have the financial resources, and because we believe in the old adage, "Charity begins at home," in addition to our own, we put 8 additional kids in our extended family through college, and helped them get into the careers they wanted, and I could go on and on from there. We're extremely determined to help our family, regardless of what's going on in this crazy world.

Submitted by zk on November 1, 2013 - 7:43pm.

Let me start right off by saying that , when it came to race in my hypothetical, I didn’t explain myself very well. My bad. In my hypothetical, all the children from CV get switched with all the children from Watts. If suddenly all the children in Watts are Asian and white and have black and Hispanic parents, the hypothetical doesn’t work. Because now everybody is wondering how all these blacks had all these Asian kids. I was going for a hypothetical where the kids had the same genes, but their appearance had to fit their families. It’s got nothing to do with race, as I said.

flu wrote:

Maybe you forgot about that portion, because maybe you haven't been along long enough.

Actually, I’ve been here longer than you, flu. Since before the system reset and we had to sign up again. Since the page background was white. Since there was paid content. I remember when you started posting. I don’t remember you being quite as whiny or as cynical then. Maybe you should take your own advice and lighten up.

flu wrote:

Financial stupidity isn't a conservative versus liberal thing. Unless you want to equate financial stupidity to being liberal.

For the issue at hand, (if we’re talking about taxes and entitlements) financial stupidity is very much a conservative versus liberal thing. Unfortunately, both of them are financially stupid in this regard.

flu wrote:

See, you know what your problem is? You don't mind dishing it out to people who differ opinions or jab at things, but oh no, when someone says something that rubs you the wrong way, you need to put yourself on a high and mighty soap box and give people a lecture and you immediately attach the conservative label to anything that goes against the grain of your thinking. Pretty open minded there... Pretty entertaining...

If you read my post again, you’ll see that I agree with neither the conservative nor the liberal platform on the issue that was being discussed. I attached the conservative label to the conservative viewpoint and the liberal label to the liberal viewpoint.

And to say that I attach the conservative label to anything that goes against my grain of thought is ludicrous. First of all, many of my own ideas (several of which I've expressed on this board) are ideas that agree with the conservative way of thinking. Also, I have many ideas (several of which I've expressed on this board) which disagree with the liberal way of thinking. I'm not a conservative or a liberal. I think for myself, and my opinions are spread across the political spectrum.

I will admit that I particularly despise the brainwashing techniques of the behemoth apparatus that is the right-wing noise machine. I’m pretty sure I would feel the same way about the left-wing noise machine if it wasn’t a rusty, beat-down tricycle with two flat tires. It kind of takes care of itself.

Soap box? Lecture? I’m offering an idea. I welcome other opinions. Especially if they don’t come with inaccurate accusations of race baiting. But again, that was probably my fault for not explaining my hypothetical very well.

flu wrote:

Also, pretty open minded there that you keep bringing race into this.

I brought race into it the first time to make my hypothetical work and the second time as a joke. You see, I said “just kidding. Sort of. Maybe.” Sound familiar? You can’t have it both ways, flu. When you say, “just kidding. Sort of. Maybe.” it’s a joke. When I say it, it’s not.

flu wrote:

And what do you mean "It wouldn't work with Asian kid in Watts with Hispanic parents" as you say?
Are you,again generalizing that every single asian is born into a well educated, high income/ upper middle class. And are you also suggesting that no asians are poor, no asians are lazy, and hence no asians would "fit"?
Like I said, generalize much?

Again, my fault for not explaining that well. I hope it’s clearer now.

Submitted by Coronita on November 1, 2013 - 7:45pm.

flyer wrote:
Good points, flu. Great to hear how you're helping others.

Because we have the financial resources, and because we believe in the old adage, "Charity begins at home," in addition to our own, we put 8 additional kids in our extended family through college, and helped them get into the careers they wanted, and I could go on and on from there.

You know the biggest irony of so called "champions of the poor"... I'm wondering how many of them actually lifted a finger.

Seriously folks, I don't need a lecture on "luck".. If I was complaining about "luck", I wouldn't be sitting on my ass all day not working, because I have the luck of having a something that 1:10000 have. It's why I'm still on chemo for the past 3 years. I'm saying this not because I need/want pity from any of you. In fact if you do, it would be the most nauseating/sickest fucking thing you would do. I'm saying it because well,

guess what

1) Life isn't fair.
2) Shit happens.
3) Deal with it.

QED...

Submitted by flyer on November 1, 2013 - 7:55pm.

flu wrote:
flyer wrote:
Good points, flu. Great to hear how you're helping others.

Because we have the financial resources, and because we believe in the old adage, "Charity begins at home," in addition to our own, we put 8 additional kids in our extended family through college, and helped them get into the careers they wanted, and I could go on and on from there.

You know the biggest irony of so called "champions of the poor"... I'm wondering how many of them actually lifted a finger.

Seriously folks, I don't need a lecture on "luck".. If I was complaining about "luck", I wouldn't be sitting on my ass all day not working, because I have the luck of having a something that 1:10000 have. It's why I'm still on chemo for the past 3 years. I'm saying this not because I need/want pity from any of you. In fact if you do, it would be the most nauseating/sickest fucking thing you would do. I'm saying it because well,

guess what

1) Life isn't fair.
2) Shit happens.
3) Deal with it.

QED...

I know you're not looking for sympathy, flu, but few people could walk in your shoes and still be standing. You're definitely dealing very well.

Submitted by zk on November 1, 2013 - 8:08pm.

flu wrote:

You know the biggest irony of so called "champions of the poor"... I'm wondering how many of them actually lifted a finger.

To be clear, I'm not necessarily a champion of the poor in this country, who really aren't that poor relative to the truly poor in some other countries. My help, in the form of money, goes outside this country.

My suggestion that we improve the environment for the "poor" in this country has more to do with the country as a whole than the poor themselves. If we could manage to turn welfare recipients and gang members into college graduates, the whole country would be better off.

Submitted by zk on November 1, 2013 - 8:39pm.

flyer wrote:

I know you're not looking for sympathy, flu, but few people could walk in your shoes and still be standing. You're definitely dealing very well.

Well, flu, if the chemo wasn't making you sick...

Submitted by scaredyclassic on November 1, 2013 - 8:50pm.

Ok now getting back on topic:

Is the candy a gift? Not taxable or is it income?

Dies it matter if you are required to say trick or treat to get the candy?

Kids today; they think society OWES them free candy.

Submitted by SD Realtor on November 1, 2013 - 9:08pm.

Not just candy. Society owes them health care, education, and a 6 figure job.

Submitted by CA renter on November 1, 2013 - 10:06pm.

flu wrote:
flyer wrote:
Good points, flu. Great to hear how you're helping others.

Because we have the financial resources, and because we believe in the old adage, "Charity begins at home," in addition to our own, we put 8 additional kids in our extended family through college, and helped them get into the careers they wanted, and I could go on and on from there.

You know the biggest irony of so called "champions of the poor"... I'm wondering how many of them actually lifted a finger.

Seriously folks, I don't need a lecture on "luck".. If I was complaining about "luck", I wouldn't be sitting on my ass all day not working, because I have the luck of having a something that 1:10000 have. It's why I'm still on chemo for the past 3 years. I'm saying this not because I need/want pity from any of you. In fact if you do, it would be the most nauseating/sickest fucking thing you would do. I'm saying it because well,

guess what

1) Life isn't fair.
2) Shit happens.
3) Deal with it.

QED...

I personally think it's in bad taste to publicly talk about charitable acts, but since you seem to be specifically requesting this information as I'm one of the "champions of the poor," I help out quite a few people in a variety of ways. I donate money to charities that help the poor, and also help out friends and family members who run into hard luck. Every month, for many years, we give money to a family friend who's very elderly and has run out of funds. We also help friends with grocery, utility, and other bills when they've been unemployed. I also advise friends who own businesses with a variety of problems from financing to accounting to marketing ideas (experience from my past corporate life). I've also spent quite a bit of time tutoring students in and out of the public school system for free (experience from my teaching days).

I've publicly advocated for programs that help the poor and have participated in multiple protests and organizations that specifically set out to help the cause of working people and the poor. Before having kids, I was actively involved in public advocacy on a variety of issues, particularly taxpayer and consumer advocacy.

Not sure where you got the notion that "champions for the poor" don't do anything to help others, but it's way off the mark from everything I've ever seen.

Submitted by njtosd on November 1, 2013 - 11:14pm.

6packscaredy wrote:
Ok now getting back on topic:

Is the candy a gift? Not taxable or is it income?

Dies it matter if you are required to say trick or treat to get the candy?

Kids today; they think society OWES them free candy.

QUOTATION: The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L. Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277 (1953).

-------

This fear for the future of our young people is as old as, well, Socrates. And my response to the flu/zk/etc argument is that we should reward those who contribute to society and help those who are not contributors to step up their game. Hard workers are good, regardless of where they come from. Hard workers with some creativity are even better, but there are few of those.

Submitted by Coronita on November 1, 2013 - 11:53pm.

zk wrote:
flu wrote:

You know the biggest irony of so called "champions of the poor"... I'm wondering how many of them actually lifted a finger.

To be clear, I'm not necessarily a champion of the poor in this country, who really aren't that poor relative to the truly poor in some other countries. My help, in the form of money, goes outside this country.

My suggestion that we improve the environment for the "poor" in this country has more to do with the country as a whole than the poor themselves. If we could manage to turn welfare recipients and gang members into college graduates, the whole country would be better off.

I'm not even talking about the poor...

Based on the "poor" people that I've had the opportunity to interact with, they fight hand and fist every day doing crap they don't want to do and try to improve their situation. They don't blame anyone or feel anyone owe them anything. Clearly, they aren't "lazy", nor do they feel "self entitled". They put the effort into improve themselves, as anyone else who isn't "lazy" too.

See, I think there's this misconception going on in America that some extreme political indoctrination has led you to believe.... I don't think the majority of the people lack sympathy and compassion for "poor" people. Quite the contrary.,I think most of america have compassion for the "poor" who actively try to get out of their shithole.

I think where people have lack of sympathy and compassion are towards the ones that seem to leech off of entitlements at the expense of both people paying for the benefits and real poor people that need the benefits. People who don't give a shit, and have given up even without trying. I think the lack of disgust and lack of compassion is also the product of people who continue to try to make excuses, blame on others, and instill this sort of learned helplessness mentality, and excuses for why people aren't/shouldn't try or excuses for why giving up is ok.

Before you deny that is happening, I see this every day. One small example. STEM professions. It usually goes like this....People say all the time to younger people

1. "why bother getting a STEMS profession, because everything is outsourced anyway...Blame outsourcing.." (FACT, young people with some STEMs are doing pretty well)

2. "not everyone can do STEMs since not everyone will be good in it"... (FACT, you don't have to be really good to do ok.. Heck my 6th grade math teach told me I was total fvckup and should never do STEMs)

3. "not everyone wants to do STEMs". Ok fine. But if STEMS gets paid X and something else gets paid Y, don't bitch if Y < X. (And that applies to anything other than STEMS. Real estate brokers probably do much better than most STEM people. I don't complain about it.)

No one owes anyone a damn thing. Now if for someone that thinks that way, and have given up, and resort to feeling like a "victim", it doesn't matter... No matter what anyone does for them , they aren't going to succeed with that mentality.

And if anyone has that mentality and is in a position of influence either to people of their peers or people younger than them, then congratulations on destroying any shred of hope and accomplishment that those people ever will have. Congratulations, you just taught them how to fail even before they started the race.

If someone(s) have the mentality that someone else owe's them something, they have already lost. They're playing the victim card and have a "learned helplessness" mentality, and it's a crutch.
And plenty of it goes around these days of the "victim mentality"

It's not a lack of compassion or sympathy whatsoever. It's a simple disgust for a self destruction mentality that some people insist on instilling on others..The idea giving up even without trying which frankly, imho, is wrecking this country. Because this sort of mentality is contagious.

You can't guarantee or be guaranteed success.

But people's mentality sure can guarantee their failure.

And lastly, if everyone actually spent the time to help someone else instead of expecting someone else to help them, maybe more people wouldn't be in such a shithole

Submitted by CA renter on November 1, 2013 - 11:40pm.

SD Realtor wrote:
Not just candy. Society owes them health care, education, and a 6 figure job.

And capitalists think their employees, customers, etc. owe them a profit...often, a very sizable one that is in no way correlated to the amount of "work" done or the risk taken on the part of the capitalist.

Submitted by njtosd on November 2, 2013 - 5:00am.

CA renter wrote:
SD Realtor wrote:
Not just candy. Society owes them health care, education, and a 6 figure job.

And capitalists think their employees, customers, etc. owe them a profit...often, a very sizable one that is in no way correlated to the amount of "work" done or the risk taken on the part of the capitalist.

CA Renter - I have to disagree. But I have to ask you a question - do you disagree with capitalism as an overall economic structure , or do you just not like parts of it?

In any event, no one holds a gun to anyone's head and says you must work at this company or you must buy from this vendor (except, now that I think about it, the ACA). If you dont want to be cheated as an employee - start a business that doesn't extract "sizable" profits (I'm including small businesses here). And in terms of being a gouged customer - there is always the DIY route. People did it for centuries. One could strive to be Amish (without the religion). I'm being a little flip here, but everything in life is a choice. And we should take care of those who are incapable of helping themselves, but not those who are unwilling.

Submitted by njtosd on November 2, 2013 - 5:00am.

CA renter wrote:
SD Realtor wrote:
Not just candy. Society owes them health care, education, and a 6 figure job.

And capitalists think their employees, customers, etc. owe them a profit...often, a very sizable one that is in no way correlated to the amount of "work" done or the risk taken on the part of the capitalist.

CA Renter - I have to disagree. But I have to ask you a question - do you disagree with capitalism as an overall economic structure , or do you just not like parts of it?

In any event, no one holds a gun to anyone's head and says you must work at this company or you must buy from this vendor (except, now that I think about it, the ACA). If you dont want to be cheated as an employee - start a business that doesn't extract "sizable" profits (I'm including small businesses here). And in terms of being a gouged customer - there is always the DIY route. People did it for centuries. One could strive to be Amish (without the religion). I'm being a little flip here, but everything in life is a choice. And we should take care of those who are incapable of helping themselves, but not those who are unwilling.

Submitted by njtosd on November 2, 2013 - 5:00am.

CA renter wrote:
SD Realtor wrote:
Not just candy. Society owes them health care, education, and a 6 figure job.

And capitalists think their employees, customers, etc. owe them a profit...often, a very sizable one that is in no way correlated to the amount of "work" done or the risk taken on the part of the capitalist.

CA Renter - I have to disagree. But I have to ask you a question - do you disagree with capitalism as an overall economic structure , or do you just not like parts of it?

In any event, no one holds a gun to anyone's head and says you must work at this company or you must buy from this vendor (except, now that I think about it, the ACA). If you dont want to be cheated as an employee - start a business that doesn't extract "sizable" profits (I'm including small businesses here). And in terms of being a gouged customer - there is always the DIY route. People did it for centuries. One could strive to be Amish (without the religion). I'm being a little flip here, but everything in life is a choice. And we should take care of those who are incapable of helping themselves, but not those who are unwilling.

Submitted by flyer on November 2, 2013 - 5:25am.

zk wrote:
flyer wrote:

I know you're not looking for sympathy, flu, but few people could walk in your shoes and still be standing. You're definitely dealing very well.

Well, flu, if the chemo wasn't making you sick...

Having friends and family who have been through this treatment, my intentions in making this remark were sincere, flu. I forgot that doesn't fly on this board.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.