Ot. Gum disease

User Forum Topic
Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 3, 2016 - 9:31am

My gums disease has gotten worse recently. I could brush and floss more. But my recent research informs me that diet may make a big difference. Some periodontists believe carbs, refined flour esp, create a nasty mouth environment that fills with plaque for susceptible people like me.

I have to take some action or this will be bad in a decade or so
..or maybe much sooner. I want my teeth.

So I am trying a 90 day experiment until my next cleaning...no carbs, no bread or rice or sugars just olive oil salads beans and meat, and see if it gives my gums a chance to heal. ... also going to drink green tea all day as some research says this helps gums heal.

This gum disease is related to plaque, the same crap in our arteries. I have a feeling my crappy mouth is related to internal crap.

Anyone else had any gum disease success stories? I feel like I need to make some changes. My mom has bad dental problems.1

Submitted by NotCranky on April 3, 2016 - 9:47am.

You should take huge bites, chew with your mouth open and eat like a pig. I do that and I don't have gum disease. I think it works your gums harder and keeps them strong. Our food is too soft that's the problem, eat harder.

Submitted by njtosd on April 3, 2016 - 10:02am.

Not the same as plaque in your arteries - but inflammation from gum disease is bad for lots of reasons. May even contribute to premature labor and therefore birth defects (not an issue for you, I know). In Brian's world, failure to brush would necessitate higher health care insurance premiums.

"Arterial plaque is a deposit of fat, cholesterol, calcium and scar tissue that develops in the artery wall. Plaque in the mouth is a bacterial film that builds up on teeth. While the two types of plaque are very different, patients with gum disease do seem to have nearly twice the risk of also having heart disease."
https://www.sharecare.com/health/vascula...

Your decision to cut out sugars should help a lot. Fish oil is good for you and is also anti inflammatory.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 3, 2016 - 10:11am.

It's a little tricky for me, as I eat 2 slices of toast pretty much every morning of my life...but I am sufficiently scared and therefore ready to make a change.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 3, 2016 - 10:12am.

Blogstar wrote:
You should take huge bites, chew with your mouth open and eat like a pig. I do that and I don't have gum disease. I think it works your gums harder and keeps them strong. Our food is too soft that's the problem, eat harder.

I've been chomping on twizzlers forvyears, hasn't worked.

Submitted by svelte on April 3, 2016 - 10:37am.

My teeth are pretty healthy, but I've always had problems with my gums. As far as I can tell, it is from me brushing my teeth too hard. I try to do it gently now, but if I don't focus I go back to my old habit.

I hadn't thought about the diet aspect. We've pretty much cut out breads, pasta and rice from our diet. I haven't noticed much difference in my gums, but I'll check next time I'm at the dentist to see if he has noticed. What we have noticed is that we did not get a single cold or flu this past winter, in spite of the fact we have to 5 year olds running around our house weekly. That is such a drastic change from last year when one or the other of us had a cold almost the entire winter that we are curious as to whether our diet played a role. If we go through a second winter sans cold/flu, then that will convince me that diet did play into it.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on April 3, 2016 - 10:41am.

I wore out my gums a little from overzealous brushing in my younger years. Manly brushing is not the way to go.

Keep you mouth clean. Gargle after you eat, especially if something sugary or carb. I gargle with hydrogen peroxide once a day. During the day I gargle with green tea because green tea is less strong. hydrogen peroxide kills all the bacteria, good and bad, but it's a bleach agent to remove stains and keep white teeth.

As you can see I'm obsessed with health and longevity. I tell my friends who don't believe me to meet up when we're 80. Just stand in front of the mirror and look at ourselves.

Submitted by bearishgurl on April 3, 2016 - 11:05am.

scaredy, if you have gingivitis bordering on periodontitis, you can help yourself by visiting your dentist 3-4x per year instead of 2x per year. Unfortunately, dental insurance only pays for two prophylactic visits per year, so you will likely be "out-of-pocket" for the other 1-2 visits for a total of $120 - $220 each, depending on length of your exams and what is done. These exams will likely be with a dential hygenist & dentist as opposed to a dental assistant & dentist where your teeth will be hand-scraped for at least 45 minutes and your gum pockets measured every other time you visit, to see if they are resolving themselves. This routine really does work but it could take up to 3 years in combination with cutting sugar and starch out of your diet.

I don't eat sugar or white flour but just a little on holidays (homemade pie) and have never drank soda with sugar in it. However, I did not receive any dental care at all until I moved to SD in my early 20's and obtained union benefits through my job. Fortunately, I have had the very best dental care since then (incl a few restorations in the past 25 years) but gingivitis and periodontitis runs in my family so I have to stay vigilant with it.

If left untreated, periodontitis can cause all kinds of health problems, including deadly cardiovascular problems such as heart attack and stroke. I saw this first hand when one of my beloved cats (7 yrs old) suddenly died in my arms of a heart attack (her siblings eventually lived to be 18 and 20). I wanted to understand why this happened to her, so I had the county autopsy (necropsy) her and that is when I found out that a deadly blood clot had traveled from the severe periodontitis beneath her gums to her artery, blocking blood flow to her heart. Bacteria from periodontitis in the mouth can also travel to the heart causing an inflammation/infection of the heart called endocarditis.

https://www.sharecare.com/health/blood-c...

http://www.periodontalhealth.com/procedu...

http://dentistry.about.com/od/issuesande...

Of course, pets can't tell us what is wrong with them or if they are in pain. That is why they need a checkup with a vet at least once per year and I fell down on my responsibilities with this cat due to being overwhelmed by "life" at the time.

You don't want to go there, scaredy. If you're not doing so already, brush your teeth after lunch during the business day.

And btw, "Twizzlers" are made of 95% sugar ... in case you didn't know :=0

[end of frightening warning]

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 3, 2016 - 11:29am.

I am scared.

I plan to go ever 3 months, but 10 months elapsed since last visit.

Ayurvedic treatment involves mustard oil and turmeric . Also rinsing with oils. I'm gonna try that too.

Inflammation.

I don't think one can wear out gums and still have teeth. When the gums go the teeth fall out.

Twizzlers was a bad joke. I eat loads of sugar though. I thought burning it off with exercise was OK. Well, no more. I love twizzlers, cookies, cake, candy, caramel, popcorn, rice, juice, smoothies, pie, jam, jelly, ice cream, esp. Ice cream..

It's over. I'm old.

Submitted by Balboa on April 3, 2016 - 11:37am.

CloSYS mouth rinse has really helped my gums. It's not cheap, but I buy it on Amazon in 32 oz. bottles and only use 1 oz. at a time instead of the recommended 2 oz. I think you can also get it at some drug stores and Walmarts in nicer areas. (There was a whole thing about Walmart wanting to carry it and the company that makes it debating whether they could/should scale up for that, especially when it would be competing with much cheaper options on the shelves.)

Submitted by FlyerInHi on April 3, 2016 - 12:20pm.

Balboa wrote:
CloSYS mouth rinse has really helped my gums. It's not cheap, but I buy it on Amazon in 32 oz. bottles and only use 1 oz. at a time instead of the recommended 2 oz. I think you can also get it at some drug stores and Walmarts in nicer areas. (There was a whole thing about Walmart wanting to carry it and the company that makes it debating whether they could/should scale up for that, especially when it would be competing with much cheaper options on the shelves.)

What is inside cloSYS?
Oftentimes the active ingredient is just peroxide or other simple common ingredients.
People often are taken by marketing and believe whatever they are using is "super duper proprietary stuff".

Submitted by bearishgurl on April 3, 2016 - 12:31pm.

scaredyclassic wrote:
I am scared.

I plan to go ever 3 months, but 10 months elapsed since last visit.

Ayurvedic treatment involves mustard oil and turmeric . Also rinsing with oils. I'm gonna try that too.

Inflammation.

I don't think one can wear out gums and still have teeth. When the gums go the teeth fall out.

Twizzlers was a bad joke. I eat loads of sugar though. I thought burning it off with exercise was OK. Well, no more. I love twizzlers, cookies, cake, candy, caramel, popcorn, rice, juice, smoothies, pie, jam, jelly, ice cream, esp. Ice cream..

It's over. I'm old.

You are correct in that when your gums recede due to periodontitis, your teeth don't have as much tissue to hold them in your mouth and can become loose. There comes a time in life when what you did in the past can catch up with the current state of your health. Better to know now than a few years from now when you could end up with full-blown periodontitis. Be glad you have dental insurance, scaredy.

Also, another, even more frightening reason to cut refined sugar out of one's diet, imho .... is the threat of being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer (albeit too late and nearly always incurable). First of all, I'm not a medical professional and therefore not an "expert" on this subject. But over the past few months, I have been going over and over in my mind why I have managed to lose no less than FOUR VIP's from my life (all aged 58-64 at the time of death) and ALL very athletic, muscular and in good shape (none drank or smoked or were anywhere near "obese"). When I started to compare these individuals (all male) with one another, they all had one thing in common and that was that they were all addicted to refined sugar (at least in front of me). They liked Cokes, pie and sweet rolls for breakfast (often buying their breakfasts from convenience stores on the way to work or machines at work), ate candy bars during the business day, went to fast food joints for lunch ordering shakes or another sweet soft drink with their meals and usually always had dessert again in the eves when they ate dinner at home. They had this type of diet nearly their entire lives. Their athleticism, even in middle-age, kept them from gaining weight. They ranged in height from 5'9" to 6'1". After diagnoses with this deadly disease, they lived 3, 4, 6.5 and 11 months. The one that lived 11 months elected to try a 5 month chemo regimen and radiation (cobalt) treatments at the time which adversely affected his quality of life for at least 5 months out of the 11 months he survived as well as burned his skin. All lost 1/4 to 3/4 lb of body weight per day (on avg) after diagnosis and weighed just 65-75% of their original body weight at the time of death with significant muscle wasting (cachexia). After diagnosis, their tumors seemed to double in size every 2-4 weeks and all suffered in pain in their last 3 months despite being given strong opioids both intravenously and orally.

This is just another reason to quit refined sugar, IMHO. At the very least, I believe a diet high in refined sugar (along with a high-fat diet) can contribute to pancreatitis, regardless of fitness level. Of course, YMMV. No one really knows the true causes of pancreatic cancer.

[end of preaching]

Submitted by bearishgurl on April 3, 2016 - 12:54pm.

scaredy, you can now purchase "specialty" mouth rinses both with and without a prescription.

see: http://www.colgate.com/en/us/oc/products...

and: http://www.colgate.com/en/us/oc/products...

Submitted by Balboa on April 3, 2016 - 1:35pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Balboa wrote:
CloSYS mouth rinse has really helped my gums. It's not cheap, but I buy it on Amazon in 32 oz. bottles and only use 1 oz. at a time instead of the recommended 2 oz. I think you can also get it at some drug stores and Walmarts in nicer areas. (There was a whole thing about Walmart wanting to carry it and the company that makes it debating whether they could/should scale up for that, especially when it would be competing with much cheaper options on the shelves.)

What is inside cloSYS?
Oftentimes the active ingredient is just peroxide or other simple common ingredients.
People often are taken by marketing and believe whatever they are using is "super duper proprietary stuff".

Stabilized Chlorine Dioxide. The product is free of alcohol, dyes and flavoring (it comes with an optional packet), which doesn't fit the mold of what most people think of or buy when it comes to mouthwash. I like it, I don't like peroxide, which tends to dry my mouth out a little more.

Scaredy, if you are using a rinse, consider asking your dentist for a monoject syringe so you can make sure the liquid is getting to rear pocketing areas.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 3, 2016 - 1:47pm.

I'm gonna start making my own toothpaste of baking soda and coconut oil.

Tastes a little weird.

For mouthwash I'm gonna use mustard oil and turmeric. I'm going to floss with regular western floss. Gotta go find some mustard oil.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on April 3, 2016 - 4:30pm.

Mustard oil and turmeric are good. But you're going to have some unsightly yellow teeth.

Submitted by bearishgurl on April 3, 2016 - 4:50pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Mustard oil and turmeric are good. But you're going to have some unsightly yellow teeth.
LOL...

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 3, 2016 - 9:01pm.

bearishgurl wrote:
FlyerInHi wrote:
Mustard oil and turmeric are good. But you're going to have some unsightly yellow teeth.
LOL...

Color irrelevant if inflammation reduced.

Submitted by svelte on April 3, 2016 - 9:50pm.

scaredyclassic wrote:
bearishgurl wrote:
FlyerInHi wrote:
Mustard oil and turmeric are good. But you're going to have some unsightly yellow teeth.
LOL...

Color irrelevant if inflammation reduced.

Even though it is labeled for mouth sores and I've never had any, the last few months I've taken to using Colgate Peroxyl as a daily mouthwash and have been pretty happy with the results. My mouth feels healthier and it appears to have reduced/eliminated episodes of bad breath. I dare say it has helped my gums also...probably all of the above is inter-related.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on April 3, 2016 - 10:44pm.

svelte wrote:

Even though it is labeled for mouth sores and I've never had any, the last few months I've taken to using Colgate Peroxyl as a daily mouthwash and have been pretty happy with the results. My mouth feels healthier and it appears to have reduced/eliminated episodes of bad breath. I dare say it has helped my gums also...probably all of the above is inter-related.

You could be saving money using plain hydrogen peroxide. Like a huge amount percentage wise.
http://www.using-hydrogen-peroxide.com/h...

Submitted by TeCKis300 on April 4, 2016 - 8:35am.

What about just a gentle warm salt water rinse regularly?

Submitted by NotCranky on April 5, 2016 - 9:30am.

Scaredy , everybody has something thats going to come on with old age first, there will be more don't worry. For me I have psoriasis or whatever it's called, recurring cradle cap, not severe, but still. Also I am probably going to be one of those guys whose hands shake! Maybe that could be put to good use somehow? Polishing gem stones?
Looks like I'll die with good teeth and hair though. I'll look o.k.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 5, 2016 - 10:16am.

Some is unavoidable. However I am starting to think gum disease are like bunions...avoidable with real lifestyle changes.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 5, 2016 - 10:22am.

TeCKis300 wrote:
What about just a gentle warm salt water rinse regularly?

This is a good idea.

There are 2 things going on.

Anti inflammation.

And killing bad bacteria that live off sugar.

The salt helps with the latter.

But fighting inflammation seems critical, not just to gum health but all over. Diet. And some healing substances when things are bad.

I think I believe in turmeric. And garlic. And mustard oil. And plain yogurt. And using coconut oil and baking soda as toothpaste. And flossing.

Submitted by ucodegen on April 5, 2016 - 2:40pm.

scaredyclassic wrote:
My gums disease has gotten worse recently. I could brush and floss more. But my recent research informs me that diet may make a big difference. Some periodontists believe carbs, refined flour esp, create a nasty mouth environment that fills with plaque for susceptible people like me.

Refined starch/sugar is bad for almost everyone in large amounts. Refined starches convert to sugars very quickly, and sugars feed the bad bacteria in the mouth. I also wonder about other parts of your health and how you are brushing as well.
scaredyclassic wrote:

So I am trying a 90 day experiment until my next cleaning...no carbs, no bread or rice or sugars just olive oil salads beans and meat, and see if it gives my gums a chance to heal. ... also going to drink green tea all day as some research says this helps gums heal.

Good start, the salad-lean meat is similar to the Atkins diet. You also might want to look at how you are brushing/flossing and with what type of toothpaste.

I would brush first to get most of the bacteria out. Flossing first can drive bacteria into the gums if there is more bacteria on the surface than under the gums. I use Arm&Hammer PeroxiCare - tastes like crap but really seems to work. Contains hydrogen peroxide and baking soda. Many toothpastes still contain sugar (to make them more palatable). PeroxiCare is available at Walmart.

I tend to floss with some of the toothpaste still in my mouth (because it has hydrogen peroxide and baking soda). It is a little messy to do, but seems to do a better job of cleaning under the gums. The other thing I sometimes do is use a WaterPik.

Rinse with water, swishing it to try and force it between your teeth (mouth and jaw closed using the tongue to force the water between the teeth). Then rinse same way with Listerine. After spitting out the Listerine, I tend to let the remaining amount stay in my mouth for a few minutes before final rinse.

Sometimes using ACT restoring mouthwash also helps, but this is more focused on tooth integrity than gum.

When you brush is also important. If you are having problems, might be good after each meal. It is also more important to brush before going to bed - because bacteria will have all night to work at your gums and teeth if you don't.

scaredyclassic wrote:

This gum disease is related to plaque, the same crap in our arteries. I have a feeling my crappy mouth is related to internal crap.

No they are not related other than they both may be diet related. The olive oil, salads and beans may help with plaque in your arteries. You need to increase the ratio of HDL to LDL fats on your blood. Omega 3 fatty acids also help your arteries.

By the way, the bacteria that attacks your teeth and gums can lead to Chronic Heart Failure if it gets in your blood because that same bacteria also attacks the heart.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on April 5, 2016 - 3:56pm.

ucodegen, sounds like you're a health care pro's dream patient and worse nightmare all in one.

About Atkins, I personally don't believe in too much meat so I will have carbs with lots of veggies and different fruits everyday. I'm lucky i prefer fruit over bakery as sweet stuff. A modified Thai/Vietnamese diet with lots of veggies, some carb is ideal for me. I love my local Thai restaurant. Of course, each person is different.

Scaredy, lots of people recommend swishing with coconut oil everyday. I've never done it, but will give it a whirl.

Submitted by ucodegen on April 5, 2016 - 4:52pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
ucodegen, sounds like you're a health care pro's dream patient and worse nightmare all in one.

You are probably right. I can describe symptoms in great detail and describe conditions and actions before and after. I also have a Physicians PDR (details on drugs, effects, warnings etc), and look up causes, read medical research papers when I can get my hands on them etc.
FlyerInHi wrote:

About Atkins, I personally don't believe in too much meat so I will have carbs with lots of veggies and different fruits everyday. I'm lucky i prefer fruit over bakery as sweet stuff. A modified Thai/Vietnamese diet with lots of veggies, some carb is ideal for me. I love my local Thai restaurant. Of course, each person is different.
I grew up with part of an old orchard at my parents house (the land was formerly an orchard that was turned into housing - house was built by the architect for himself and he kept most of the trees instead of scraping). I prefer fruit to carb based 'treats', but most of the fruit I find is not really up to snuff - picked too soon and expected to ripen on the shelves. The result is fruit that is a bit starchy and lacking in taste. Apricots seem to be the most sensitive in this respect. Mandarin oranges that you get in the store are nothing like the real thing.

Atkins does not rule out lots of greens/fruits with some meat..

Submitted by ltsddd on April 5, 2016 - 5:44pm.

Sounds like you need a deep cleaning. The dental hygienist should be able to tell you the depth of the pockets between your teeth and gum. If they are in the 4-5 range then that's bad. Inflammation on the gum is a good indication that there are some deep pockets in there. If that's the case you'll either do a deep cleaning or floss/brush/rinse more regularly. I think the change in diet may help, but flossing daily and brush/rinse at least twice a day will probably produce better results.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 5, 2016 - 6:55pm.

ltsdd wrote:
Sounds like you need a deep cleaning. The dental hygienist should be able to tell you the depth of the pockets between your teeth and gum. If they are in the 4-5 range then that's bad. Inflammation on the gum is a good indication that there are some deep pockets in there. If that's the case you'll either do a deep cleaning or floss/brush/rinse more regularly. I think the change in diet may help, but flossing daily and brush/rinse at least twice a day will probably produce better results.

Yeah, lots of 4s and 5s, 1st time I've heard that. Anecdotal evidence on Internet periodontal chat sites seems to indicate one can turn this around to 2s and 3s with some serious focused effort. I am dedicatedoing. I am motivated. I am on a quest to be my best.

Submitted by cvmom on April 5, 2016 - 7:12pm.

A family member of mine has turned around some serious gum disease with very focused treatment. He uses an ultrasonic toothbrush twice a day and an ultrasonic(?) water pic once a day, very thoroughly. Goes to the dentist 4x per year for deep cleaning. It has been many years since he first got the bad news, prior to that he had never taken the dentist, flossing, etc. seriously. But he got religion in this area and has avoided the very serious consequences. It can be done.

Submitted by moneymaker on April 6, 2016 - 5:33am.

Have you tried windex scaredy? My gum numbers have gone from 3-4 to 2-3 but I have no idea what I've done, if anything to cause it. It seems a little subjective to me so not sure if improvement is real. My dentist is finally having the dental technicians doing the cleaning (about time) he was digging down too deep in my opinion, creating pockets for bacteria to live in. One of the dental technicians has really small hands which I think is a really good thing in that line of work. By the way I am a big time sugar person so I don't believe in the sugar theory. There is an herbal mouth wash from a plant that grows in Mexico but I don't think the stores carry it. It's a purplish color and will stop bleeding gums immediately when used, sorry don't recall the plant it's from.

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