OT: Ebola - Global Pandemic?

User Forum Topic
Submitted by paramount on July 31, 2014 - 11:51am

Time to run down to home depot to pick up some masks/respirators?

Time to close the borders?

A repeat of the Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1917-1918 only deadlier?

Or pure hysteria?

http://youtu.be/JnQVUf775VE

Ebola 2014

Submitted by Coronita on October 15, 2014 - 9:36am.

Ok, back on topic. The second nurse that is now infected apparently was on a Frontier Air flight days between Cleveland and Dallas after nursing Duncan...

Great.

Hello? If you are a caregiver for an Ebola patient, maybe you should quarantine yourself during the wait period when symptoms might show up...you think?

This will be interesting 132 passengers on that flight..And I wonder how many successive flights since then...

Submitted by outtamojo on October 15, 2014 - 9:51am.

flu wrote:
Ok, back on topic. The second nurse that is now infected apparently was on a Frontier Air flight days between Cleveland and Dallas after nursing Duncan...

Great.

Hello? If you are a caregiver for an Ebola patient, maybe you should quarantine yourself during the wait period when symptoms might show up...you think?

This will be interesting 132 passengers on that flight..And I wonder how many successive flights since then...

Wonder if self quarantine was in the precious protocol. At this point though the likelihood of transferring ebola to someone on the flight is small as it is still early in the course of the disease. Duncan did not infect anyone on the plane or his apartment. Yeah I'm starting to sound like an overconfident CDC guy but that's the pattern that is emerging.
Stay away from ebola victim's dead or near dying
and most of us will be ok.

Submitted by zk on October 15, 2014 - 8:41pm.

CA renter wrote:

"10 Nefarious Conspiracies Proven True"

http://listverse.com/2013/05/02/10-nefar...

----------

There's the story of "weapons of mass destruction" that didn't exist in Iraq.

And I'm still not convinced we've heard the end of 9/11 investigation results.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

And the heavy put buying on United and American Airlines just days before 9/11. I'm offering up the rebuttal to the "conspiracy theorists" but they simply say that these traders didn't have any links to al Qaeda, which wasn't what the "conspiracy theorists" were suggesting in the first place.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/putcall.asp

And, of course, there's the EPA telling NY residents that it was safe to breathe the air after 911 (and President Bush telling everyone in the U.S. to "go shopping"!).

"Three days after 9/11, following questionable air sampling techniques, a spokesperson for the EPA said that levels of asbestos were either at low levels, negligible, or undetectable.

“I am glad to reassure the people of New York and Washington, D.C., that the air is safe to breathe and their water is safe to drink,” Whitman said one week after 9/11."

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/oct/the...

And just a tiny bit of info about the infiltration and destruction of the Occupy Wall Street movement.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/05/fbi-occupy-wall-street_n_2410783.html

Before I run down the rest of the “conspiracy theories,” I want to talk about what I see as a conspiracy. As I said before in this thread, “I know [the government lies], and sometimes even for malevolent reasons. “ The government lying to us isn’t necessarily a conspiracy. When I say conspiracy theorists are basically always wrong, I’m talking about government plots. Faking the moon landing. Perpetrating the 9/11 attacks. That sort of thing. I’m going to go out of order:

#8 Fasicst Plot to take over America: This got nowhere. No one in government would go along.

#9 Gulf of Tonkin: This was a lie to cover up a mistake. Not a conspiracy.

America perpetrated 9/11: Just lunacy. No evidence that stands up to scrutiny.

Infiltrate Occupy Wall Street: This was a lot of government bungling. They got a bit overzealous.

#7 False witness on Iraq: A lie, to be sure. Not really a conspiracy.

#5 Asbestos: This was a corporate cover up to keep a company alive. Quite nasty, and you could call it a corporate conspiracy.

Safe to breathe 9/11: I’m not sure about this one. Having read about it, it looks like a lot of government incompetence and some lying. I work for the federal government. It’s a terribly-run operation in the best of times. At a time like the aftermath of 9/11, I would expect nothing better than confusion, chaos, and utter incompetence. (Except, of course, from the air traffic controllers, who are relatively free of red tape and who did a masterful job.)

These next three could, from a certain point of view, be considered government conspiracies. They were all extended misinformation campaigns designed to sway public opinion. There was no direct action, though. So really, it’s just a lot of lying.

WMD in Iraq: They strategically and purposely lied to us for the purpose of rushing to a war they wanted.

#4 Cointelpro: This was a concerted effort to target the entire left wing: anyone liberal was seen as a danger and slandered in print.

#6 Mockingbird: The purpose was to influence media toward hatred and fear of Soviet Communism. Led to rise of McCarthy.

Here’s one that does rise to the level of conspiracy:
#10 Poison Alcohol: The FBI purposely poisoned thousands of Americans. Horrible.

So, I’m going to come off my position of basically always wrong. The U.S. government did, at least once, conspire against some of its people. I do maintain that the notion that conspiracy theorists are right more often than not is preposterous.

Submitted by outtamojo on October 16, 2014 - 12:56am.

Some more tidbits about Texas Presbyterian:

Apparently they were sending Duncan's fluid samples to the hospital laboratory via pneumatic tube system.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014...

I've seen improperly sealed specimens spill and leak out when sent thru such systems and then the whole thing has to be shut down and decontaminated otherwise contaminated tubes end up throughout the entire hospital. It was such a perceived danger that liquids are no longer allowed in our tube system where I work.

Nurses were allowed to treat other patients at the same time they were treating Duncan.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/tex...

The non-unionized nurses sought out the National Nurses Union so they could air their grievances anonymously- I sense some major dysfunction goin on...

Submitted by Coronita on October 16, 2014 - 1:24pm.

....So it turns out Dr. Brantly's blood type is A+......

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/dr-kent-bra...

So I guess the only people that wouldn't be able to get any sort of transfusion (whether it's whole blood or just plasma) is blood type B.....

which is what was Duncan's blood type.

Submitted by outtamojo on October 16, 2014 - 1:45pm.

flu wrote:
....So it turns out Dr. Brantly's blood type is A+......

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/dr-kent-bra...

So I guess the only people that wouldn't be able to get any sort of transfusion (whether it's whole blood or just plasma) is blood type B.....

which is what was Duncan's blood type.

Type A plasma has anti B antibodies so type AB is also not compatible with type A plasma.
Again, incompatible plasma in small amounts can be safely transfused so compatability should not really be an impediment given risk/reward.If you regularly receive platelet transfusions it is likely that at some time you received a type that was not the same as your own with incompatible plasma.

Submitted by Coronita on October 16, 2014 - 1:53pm.

outtamojo wrote:
flu wrote:
....So it turns out Dr. Brantly's blood type is A+......

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/dr-kent-bra...

So I guess the only people that wouldn't be able to get any sort of transfusion (whether it's whole blood or just plasma) is blood type B.....

which is what was Duncan's blood type.

Type A plasma has anti B antibodies so type AB is also not compatible with type A plasma.
Again, incompatible plasma in small amounts can be safely transfused so compatability should not really be an impediment given risk/reward.If you regularly receive platelet transfusions it is likely that at some time you received a type that was not the same as your own with incompatible plasma.

But in that case, wouldn't they just be able to do a whole blood transfusion from A to AB?

Submitted by outtamojo on October 16, 2014 - 2:19pm.

Whole blood contains red cells and plasma.
Whole blood is rarely used for transfusion these days.

Submitted by Coronita on October 16, 2014 - 2:50pm.

outtamojo wrote:
Whole blood contains red cells and plasma.
Whole blood is rarely used for transfusion these days.

Ah.. But can it?

Submitted by outtamojo on October 16, 2014 - 4:07pm.

Yes it can, but it is not done as a general practice. (Although we give type A
packed red blood cells to type AB patients all the time. This is because most of the plasma is removed from packed rbc's.)

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 16, 2014 - 4:46pm.

I was just reading a short story in the NY times about a city in West Africa they were saying is covered in bodies, it was totally out of control, no place to take them (no room left in any treatment centers).

Nothing to see here folks, move along.

Submitted by SD Realtor on October 16, 2014 - 7:14pm.

Agreed... nothing to see here... time to move along...

My prediction, which I sincerely hope is incorrect, is that our daily life will be changing for us all pretty soon.

Just a guess but logic and probability pretty much point in that direction.

Submitted by NotCranky on October 16, 2014 - 9:45pm.

SD Realtor wrote:
Agreed... nothing to see here... time to move along...

My prediction, which I sincerely hope is incorrect, is that our daily life will be changing for us all pretty soon.

Just a guess but logic and probability pretty much point in that direction.

I doubt Ebola is going to be it. Disease warfare could be part of our future once the "terrorist" make inevitable progress at hitting us here. That's when daily life will be changing.

Submitted by Zeitgeist on October 16, 2014 - 10:35pm.

National Security Study Memorandum 200: Implications of Worldwide Population Growth for U.S. Security and Overseas Interests (NSSM200) was completed on December 10, 1974 by the United States National Security Council under the direction of Henry Kissinger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Se...

Maybe this is why we let Ebola take over parts of Africa...
just adding to the tinfoil head gear.

Submitted by SD Realtor on October 16, 2014 - 10:51pm.

We will see what happens. Single digits of infections this week.... I have not kept track of how long the disease has been present in non third world countries. I believe only for 2-3 weeks at most. Given the period of 2-21 days for symptoms to develop I believe the next few weeks will be quite interesting. However, the raw facts are such that measures needed to keep the virus contained will not be enacted.

The game changer is the breach of the non industrialized nations borders.

I will be REALLY happy to be wrong. Russ I totally hope you are correct.

ISIS and terrorism have nothing on Ebola but if ISIS was smart they should focus on smuggling infected people into the US as opposed to using guns and bombs.

Submitted by Zeitgeist on October 16, 2014 - 11:03pm.

SD Realtor wrote:
We will see what happens. Single digits of infections this week.... I have not kept track of how long the disease has been present in non third world countries. I believe only for 2-3 weeks at most. Given the period of 2-21 days for symptoms to develop I believe the next few weeks will be quite interesting. However, the raw facts are such that measures needed to keep the virus contained will not be enacted.

The game changer is the breach of the non industrialized nations borders. ISIS and terrorism have nothing on Ebola but if ISIS was smart they should focus on smuggling infected people into the US as opposed to using guns and bombs.

You are 100% right about that. Put them in a crowded venue or some other inner city environment and let the infection run wild. Shades of Escape from LA.

Submitted by no_such_reality on October 17, 2014 - 6:30am.

Total worldwide infection is around 9000, total deaths are around 4400 with Ebola outbreak running since March of this year.

We don't want to stick our head in the sand, but the media drumbeat paranoia that has people panic whenever anbody sneezes is overdone.

Submitted by SD Realtor on October 17, 2014 - 6:42am.

I agree that the media sensationalizes every. That is their job.

From a probability standpoint things like this are inevitable. The only variable that really exists is the time between events. It is no different from ice ages and meteor strikes. It is no an if, but a when.

We are closer to that when now then we have ever been. Human error has already raised the probability of it becoming widespread here. How can the cdc allow a person with any fever at all who worked in the hospital and treated patient 0 fly?

Similarly our domestic hospital personnel are largely uneducated about this particular virus. I can go on and on but from a pure probability sense, strictly probability based on present domestic cases as well as human error and ease of travel in our country, the adds are much more in favor of a larger outbreak then not, at least in my opinion. I am wrong plenty of the time, and in this case I very much hope to be again.

Submitted by no_such_reality on October 17, 2014 - 6:53am.

You live in the USA, you'll probably drive a car today. From a probability standpoint, the odds of you getting killed by a car crash TODAY exceed your odds of dying from ebola this year.

In fact, even though you're in San Deigo, you have roughly 3X the chance of being struck and killed by lightning.

Submitted by Coronita on October 17, 2014 - 7:13am.

My take on ebola is that we have everything in this country at our disposal to make sure it doesn't become a big outbreak problem.

My concern is... People in this country aren't taking it seriously enough...And it's the arrogance that I'm worried about....

Is it doom and gloom? No.. Is it something we can just tread lightly on? Hell no...

CNN is reporting that one of the persons that handed Duncan's blood has been quarantined on a cruise ship..

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/17/health/us-...

Though we requested this person be flown back to the U.S., ironic that the The Belize government denied the request to allow the person to evacuate using their airport....At least some countries are clearly taking this seriously and taking care of it's citizens...


The Belize government turned down a request by the United States to evacuate the worker through the international airport in Belize City.
"We remain in close contact with U.S. officials ... we have maintained the position that when even the smallest doubt remains, we will ensure the health and safety of the Belizean people," the government said in a statement.

Submitted by SD Realtor on October 17, 2014 - 7:24am.

NSR you are correct, and no argument as the math supports your post as of today. I am not as centric on myself surviving though. I have the resources and have prepped sufficiently to give my family and I a better chance then most. It is the disruption to everyday life and our functional society that I don't want to have to endure. I would much rather see our society burdened with inconveniences now that could very well help prevent a larger outbreak or at least reduce the chances, then later.

It is kind of a no win game. Implementing things like travel bans and such seems quite archiac and can easily be painted as ineffective. Yet to argue that they do not help in any way, shape or form seems be incorrect in my opinion. Would they be considered an over reaction? Yes. Are they really an over reaction? Maybe, in fact probably. Would they reduce the chances of wider spreading? Perhaps but they definitely would not increase the chances.

It is certainly new ground for western society. As a technological culture we have faith that we can overcome pretty much everything. Maybe the vaccine is already there as I type.

So my post is not a fear of me catching it, it is more of a fear from an epidemiology standpoint. (sorry if I butchered the spelling)

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 17, 2014 - 7:24am.

flu wrote:
My take on ebola is that we have everything in this country at our disposal to make sure it doesn't become a big outbreak problem.

I would agree with this with the exception if we somehow mess up and somehow got 150 cases at the same time, I think it could out strip our ability to control and handle.

At that point I would really start to worry.

Submitted by spdrun on October 17, 2014 - 8:04am.

Lovely. Obama just appointed Ron Klain (political hack lawyer and damage controller extraordinaire) as "Ebola Czar." Instead of (say) a former military doctor with public health experience. Where's the fucking logic, unless Obama views this as an image crisis first and gives a shit about the American public second?

And I'm speaking as someone who voted for Obama and supported at least some of his policies.

Submitted by NotCranky on October 17, 2014 - 8:09am.

Someone spoofed South Western College on Ebola.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/oct/...

Submitted by NotCranky on October 17, 2014 - 8:22am.

Just got the elementary school district email about Ebola.

There has got to be a business opportunity in this. Maybe a line of Gluten and Ebola free breakfast cereals?

Submitted by all on October 17, 2014 - 8:45am.

flu wrote:

My concern is... People in this country aren't taking it seriously enough...And it's the arrogance that I'm worried about....

I thought communiques from the county school districts and bearishgurl's college campus being quarantined/evacuated is overreaction.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 17, 2014 - 2:45pm.

sure Yep nothing to worry about

http://news.yahoo.com/video/man-dies-abo...

Man Dies Aboard Flight from Nigeria to JFK
Tribune 2:38 mins
A plane reportedly arrived at JFK International Airport with a dead passenger, who entered a vomiting fit while en route to New York. The Centers for Disease Control determined the passenger did not have Ebola.

Submitted by ltsddd on October 17, 2014 - 6:01pm.

no_such_reality wrote:
Total worldwide infection is around 9000, total deaths are around 4400 with Ebola outbreak running since March of this year.

Need to take into account, up until a few weeks ago, almost all ebola cases were confined to remote villages in Africa.

Submitted by CA renter on October 18, 2014 - 1:02am.

spdrun wrote:
Lovely. Obama just appointed Ron Klain (political hack lawyer and damage controller extraordinaire) as "Ebola Czar." Instead of (say) a former military doctor with public health experience. Where's the fucking logic, unless Obama views this as an image crisis first and gives a shit about the American public second?

And I'm speaking as someone who voted for Obama and supported at least some of his policies.

Agreed. It is all about preventing panic and chaos...forget about the disease.

Submitted by NotCranky on October 18, 2014 - 10:22am.

The focus of Ebola misery is pretty much going to stay where it is at until it unwinds , hopefully soon.

I think that conclusion can be drawn from this.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...

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