OT: Ebola - Global Pandemic?

User Forum Topic
Submitted by paramount on July 31, 2014 - 11:51am

Time to run down to home depot to pick up some masks/respirators?

Time to close the borders?

A repeat of the Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1917-1918 only deadlier?

Or pure hysteria?

http://youtu.be/JnQVUf775VE

Ebola 2014

Submitted by outtamojo on October 1, 2014 - 9:24pm.

It was a disappointment that it even reached our shores;shocking that it was not even suspected by the health care providers given his travel history.

Submitted by zk on October 2, 2014 - 7:28am.

CA renter wrote:

You have to admit, zk, that this doesn't look good. How many people have come into contact with this person's blood, saliva, feces, urine, semen, etc.? From there, nobody knows how it could play out. Did they get a hazmat team, experienced in handling this type of situation, to clean up the vomit? What about when he used the bathroom in the airport or this apartment, or in any restaurants, stores, etc. that he might have visited when he first got to the U.S.? Did a lot of friends/relatives come by to visit while he was sick?

Just too little info to know how this will play out, one way or another.

Depends what you mean by "doesn't look good." If you mean that it portends a possible widespread outbreak, then I do not agree. If you means that we should be afraid, I don't agree.

Submitted by CA renter on October 2, 2014 - 8:43am.

Let's say the man was throwing up at the hospital the first time he went (pretty likely), or that someone might have come into contact with is blood, saliva, feces, or urine while he was there. It seems pretty likely that this might have happened.

Then this person (or people) go home to their loved ones, go to work, go to restaurants and other establishments, etc., and the disease is spread. Some of those people, or the people with whom they've had contact, might also have traveled to other cities or states, spreading it there.

It seems pretty contagious, based on what I've read. Even healthcare professionals who are taking extreme precautions are getting sick. Just the fact that someone made it here with the disease, even though they are trying to be vigilant about passengers who are traveling from the disease-riddled countries, is extremely frightening.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 2, 2014 - 9:37am.

Confirmed, I am a complete paranoid whack Job, but anyway,
They are saying up to 80 people could have been exposed to this guy and his family.

Also a possible case in Hawaii.

Submitted by Doofrat on October 2, 2014 - 10:33am.

The-Shoveler wrote:
Confirmed, I am a complete paranoid whack Job, but anyway,
They are saying up to 80 people could have been exposed to this guy and his family.

Also a possible case in Hawaii.

And my quote was: "Sure, there's the off chance that you end up on a plane with an Ebola victim who's travelling on holiday from Sierra Leone to Maui, but that's pretty remote. "

I'm skipping lunch today, I'm stuffed from eating my words.

Submitted by outtamojo on October 2, 2014 - 11:39am.

Do they have fruit bats in Texas?

Submitted by zk on October 2, 2014 - 11:56am.

The-Shoveler wrote:
Confirmed, I am a complete paranoid whack Job, but anyway,
They are saying up to 80 people could have been exposed to this guy and his family.

Also a possible case in Hawaii.

"They are saying" and "up to" don't add up to much.

Submitted by zk on October 2, 2014 - 12:02pm.

CA renter wrote:
Let's say the man was throwing up at the hospital the first time he went (pretty likely), or that someone might have come into contact with is blood, saliva, feces, or urine while he was there. It seems pretty likely that this might have happened.

Then this person (or people) go home to their loved ones, go to work, go to restaurants and other establishments, etc., and the disease is spread. Some of those people, or the people with whom they've had contact, might also have traveled to other cities or states, spreading it there.

It seems pretty contagious, based on what I've read. Even healthcare professionals who are taking extreme precautions are getting sick. Just the fact that someone made it here with the disease, even though they are trying to be vigilant about passengers who are traveling from the disease-riddled countries, is extremely frightening.

It's only extremely frightening if you don't really understand or if you're prone to scaring easily or if you're always seeing storm clouds gathering or armageddon coming.

The virus isn't transmittable until symptoms appear. And then only through contact with bodily fluids. I could continue with scientific facts, but people like to be scared, I guess. In the next year, a hundred times more people will die in the U.S. of diseases you never heard of and aren't afraid of than will die from ebola that they caught in the U.S.

Submitted by outtamojo on October 2, 2014 - 12:11pm.

"Not transmittable until symptoms appear" reminds me of how in the space of 1 minute or seconds milk
can go from ok to sell to not ok to sell. The paranoids have earned their day imo.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 2, 2014 - 12:49pm.

I drink expired milk and eat expired yogurt. Never got sick.

Anyway the ebola case is near Dallas. A friend who lives there said he's gotten text messages and emails from people telling him to be careful. Shows how people watch the news and get scared easily.

Submitted by zk on October 2, 2014 - 1:56pm.

outtamojo wrote:
"Not transmittable until symptoms appear" reminds me of how in the space of 1 minute or seconds milk
can go from ok to sell to not ok to sell. The paranoids have earned their day imo.

Not sure how the paranoids have earned their day when not a single person in the U.S. has caught ebola here. That's a long way from a widespread outbreak.

Submitted by outtamojo on October 2, 2014 - 2:19pm.

zk wrote:
outtamojo wrote:
"Not transmittable until symptoms appear" reminds me of how in the space of 1 minute or seconds milk
can go from ok to sell to not ok to sell. The paranoids have earned their day imo.

Not sure how the paranoids have earned their day when not a single person in the U.S. has caught ebola here. That's a long way from a widespread outbreak.

Signs of systemic failure do not bode well for not just Ebola. Faith in institutions is paramount to containment and lack of it contributed greatly to its spread in Africa.

Submitted by zk on October 3, 2014 - 3:08am.

outtamojo wrote:

Signs of systemic failure do not bode well for not just Ebola. Faith in institutions is paramount to containment and lack of it contributed greatly to its spread in Africa.

I'm not sure what "signs of systemic failure" and "faith in institutions" mean. But what contributed greatly to the spread of ebola in Africa is rituals involving touching dead bodies in a way that subjects persons to that dead person's bodily fluids. Those are rituals that Americans are educated enough to avoid (or maybe, in some cases, just lucky enough not to regularly participate in).

I don't think I understand the desire to be afraid of ebola or of armageddon in general. I wonder if maybe there's an excitement factor involved. I think a lot of people are excited to be afraid of ebola or nuclear war or the christian armageddon or the collapse of capitalism or whatever world-changing thing it is they're afraid of.

If you want to be afraid of a germ, might I suggest you be afraid of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. That is ten thousand times more likely to kill you than ebola, and the threat is growing. Not as exciting as ebola. But way more dangerous.

There are people out there lounging in the sun or eating big macs or not exercising or driving like idiots or riding their bikes on the road and at the same time freaking out about ebola. That doesn't make any sense at all. Any of those habits are thousands of times more likely to kill you than ebola.

Heck, not flossing is more likely to kill you than ebola.

Submitted by Aecetia on October 3, 2014 - 9:16pm.

Worst case scenario: Black Swan Event

Submitted by zk on October 4, 2014 - 8:14am.

Aecetia wrote:
Worst case scenario: Black Swan Event

Only if the virus mutates significantly. Otherwise, that's not a possible scenario.

Submitted by spdrun on October 4, 2014 - 8:36am.

Interesting question: Ebola combined with flu season. Could the flu symptoms (coughing, sneezing, etc) aerosolize the germ?

Submitted by zk on October 4, 2014 - 8:46am.

spdrun wrote:
Interesting question: Ebola combined with flu season. Could the flu symptoms (coughing, sneezing, etc) aerosolize the germ?

Ebola is not transmittable as an aerosol. Having the flu won't change that. Only a mutation would change that.

Submitted by outtamojo on October 4, 2014 - 10:26am.

Here's the hazmat team cleaning up ebola vomit
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/10/w...

Submitted by outtamojo on October 4, 2014 - 11:22am.

zk wrote:
outtamojo wrote:

Signs of systemic failure do not bode well for not just Ebola. Faith in institutions is paramount to containment and lack of it contributed greatly to its spread in Africa.

I'm not sure what "signs of systemic failure" and "faith in institutions" mean. But what contributed greatly to the spread of ebola in Africa is rituals involving touching dead bodies in a way that subjects persons to that dead person's bodily fluids. Those are rituals that Americans are educated enough to avoid (or maybe, in some cases, just lucky enough not to regularly participate in).

I don't think I understand the desire to be afraid of ebola or of armageddon in general. I wonder if maybe there's an excitement factor involved. I think a lot of people are excited to be afraid of ebola or nuclear war or the christian armageddon or the collapse of capitalism or whatever world-changing thing it is they're afraid of.

If you want to be afraid of a germ, might I suggest you be afraid of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. That is ten thousand times more likely to kill you than ebola, and the threat is growing. Not as exciting as ebola. But way more dangerous.

There are people out there lounging in the sun or eating big macs or not exercising or driving like idiots or riding their bikes on the road and at the same time freaking out about ebola. That doesn't make any sense at all. Any of those habits are thousands of times more likely to kill you than ebola.

Heck, not flossing is more likely to kill you than ebola.

Let's not focus so much on the ebola virus but the bumbling that led to a deadly virus reaching our shores and how we failed to protect the general public. Sure nobody else has contracted ebola from the Dallas carrier but being sent home from a hospital after ebola had been all over the news forever and having told the hospital he came from Liberia? I'd say we are definitely more lucky than good.
I know that ER's get overworked and things slip through the cracks but 2 people, the Nurse and the Doctor had the chance to prevent further exposures.
In the old days they would just be fired but nowadays they want to look at hospital procedures and see if they can call it a flaw in the system.
I get enjoyment from eating burgers and being out in the sun - those are my choices. I don't think I would get any enjoyment at all from ebola.
I agree, ebola is not likely to kill ME but if I was one of those exposed after a carrier was sent home from a hospital I would not be too happy right now having to listen to the CDC tell everyone how they will stop ebola in its tracks.

Submitted by Zeitgeist on October 4, 2014 - 11:50am.

I am sure some government, somewhere has a mutated, aerosolized version.

Submitted by moneymaker on October 4, 2014 - 12:34pm.

So there is a journalist headed to Nebraska Sunday night, now all we need is CA and NY and we will be ready for full scale pandemic. The media will be reporting Monday that the pandemic has doubled in a little more than a week, the markets will fall and hysteria will prevail. I hope the journalist, Ashoka Mukpo, can be saved for his sake and ours.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 4, 2014 - 12:50pm.

People get so scared... This will pass and there will be a summer movie next year. I can just imagine the script a la World War Z, with a bunch of good-looking medical heroes flying in black helicopters to save the day.

Submitted by Aecetia on October 4, 2014 - 1:03pm.

Protective gear
Get ready

Submitted by Zeitgeist on October 4, 2014 - 1:41pm.

"synchronized incompetence"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnQVUf775...

Submitted by CA renter on October 4, 2014 - 3:42pm.

outtamojo wrote:
Here's the hazmat team cleaning up ebola vomit
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/10/workers-spray-ebola-patients-vomit-sidewalk-pressure-washer-protective-clothing-photo.html

If that is honestly a scene from the clean-up of that patient's vomit, and if that's what happened *after* the patient was officially diagnosed, and if this is the response received after the CDC said it needed to be cleaned up, then some people need to go to jail. This is incredibly shocking, if true.

Submitted by CA renter on October 4, 2014 - 4:12pm.

Here's more about how the govt treated the apartment and the residents (including the man's girlfriend, who probably had sex with him):

"Dallas, Texas (CNN) -- A Dallas apartment where the first person diagnosed with Ebola in the United States had stayed is finally getting a thorough cleaning, days after the diagnosis left four people quarantined there with soiled towels and sweat-stained sheets from the Ebola patient.

After some delays, the first of three phases to clean the apartment began Friday afternoon. While the process will take days, at least sheets and towels that Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan used have been removed.

Also out are the four people -- the partner of the Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan, her 13-year-old son and her two 20-something nephews -- who'd been stuck there for days."

-------------

Why in the world were these people left there? We should have quarantine/isolation units in hospitals (and other places, if necessary) where the environment is fully controlled and where everyone and everything, going in or out, is sterilized and closely monitored.

Apparently, health officials found out that the soiled stuff was in the apartment from Anderson Cooper when the residents complained about it to the news media??? This is unbelievable!

Seriously, I've heard of a better hazmat response to a broken CFL lightbulb (not kidding). FYI, those CFL lightbulbs with mercury do *technically* need to be handled in a very specific way. (But CFLs are "greener"! /sarcasm)

http://www2.epa.gov/cfl/cleaning-broken-cfl

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl...

Submitted by CA renter on October 4, 2014 - 5:27pm.

As for how contagious this disease can be...this pertains to the most recent journalist/cameraman who is being flown to NE:

"She said her son did not know how he contracted the virus.

“He took all the necessary precautions and he was very aware of the precautions to take,” she said. “He helped decontaminate a car and he was wearing protective [gear] but he thinks maybe some water splashed on him.”'

..."Ashoka’s father is Dr Mitchell Levy, the medical director of the intensive care unit at Rhode Island Hospital. He told CNN it was unclear how his son got the virus, but added: "He was helping inside clinics disinfecting, whether it was a chair or some vehicle that had potentially been exposed, he remembers getting some of it in his face."'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...

........

So, the notion that you have to be "digging around" in a sick/dead patient's blood, feces, urine, saliva, teardrops, etc. is a bit naive, IMHO. Apparently, it doesn't take much contact with bodily fluids, and it can be transmitted via very casual contact, like carrying a pregnant woman with the disease to a taxi, or decontaminating a chair. And to claim that it's not airborne, as if the virus dies suddenly when mucus/saliva is forcefully expelled from the body by a cough or sneeze, seems a bit too optimistic.

Submitted by joec on October 4, 2014 - 6:44pm.

Advice for everyone is to use common sense and to not trust the government this isn't as contagious as they say...

All these people were being very careful and a microscopic amount from someone's sneeze on a surface that you touch or accidentally breath in when you are in line waiting to check out or whatever (have someone sneeze on you is plenty enough...)

Also, if that's really how they washed the surface, that seems like it would just get stepped on by people not in the know or flow into some bay/lake and get into contact with more people.

When you see these guys in Africa, they build like a moat filled with cleaners and they soak their boots/feet in it for long periods so walking around it looks like a definite way to catch/transmit it.

Guess we'll find out in a week or 2 if anyone else catches this.

Submitted by outtamojo on October 4, 2014 - 7:02pm.

Let's not forget the natural reservoir for Ebola is not humans but...animals. Again, better to be lucky than good.

Submitted by joec on October 4, 2014 - 7:11pm.

Smart people's thoughts on this article?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...

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