OT: Details of the Tesla Motor's WhiteStar sedan emerges.

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Submitted by flu on June 12, 2008 - 12:59pm

For you tree huggers. Latest news of the Tesla Whitestar sedan...

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/12/is-te...

 

A few months back, Tesla Motors revealed that its upcoming WhiteStar sedan would be available in two variants, a pure battery electric like the Roadster and a range-extended electric more like the Chevy Volt. We still don't have many details on the car, although we do know that lessons learned while working on the drivetrain for the heavier sedan have been fed back into the Roadster for its updated 2.0 drivetrain.

As a small start-up with limited resources, developing a new engine for the WhiteStar would obviously be problematic. Tesla Chairman Elon Musk let slip in an interview with Fox Business News that the company has reached a technology deal with German giant Daimler (formerly of DaimlerChrysler infamy). Without any official comment from Telsa yet (we'll update you when we here something), one possible scenario for the deal is that Daimler will provide engines for the range extended WhiteStar. Daimler has always struggled to make money from Smart and the micro-car builder has a 1.0L three cylinder engine that might make a good range extender. If Daimler supplied 10,000 or so of those engines to Tesla, it could help drive down Daimler's costs. The other possibility is that Tesla might be licensing battery management technology to Daimler, but that scenario seems less likely.

Update: Tesla VP Darryl Siry declined comment on the matter.

Submitted by nostradamus on June 12, 2008 - 2:07pm.

Where are the details? The car looks pretty sweet but how much does it cost? What is it's range on one charge? What are its acceleration, weight, stopping distance, crash test performance, etc?

All I read from this is that it's WAAAAY far from being available, affordable, or even completely designed.

Submitted by flu on June 12, 2008 - 2:57pm.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/08/...

"I can say that the second model [code name: White Star, scheduled for 2008] will be a sporty four door family car at roughly half the $89k price point of the Tesla Roadster and the third model will be even more affordable [...] all free cash flow is plowed back into R&D to drive down the costs and bring the follow on products to market as fast as possible. When someone buys the Tesla Roadster sports car, they are actually helping pay for development of the low cost family car."

 

Slightly OT on an OT. Another reason why you don't tax the hell out of the rich. 

 

selfportrait

----- Sour grapes for everyone!

Submitted by nostradamus on June 12, 2008 - 3:24pm.

It is definitely consumer-driven. We will not further alternative energy vehicles until there is a demand for them. Problem is, the price and performance of electric vehicles is still far from that of gas-driven... so people will usually choose the gas-driven unless they have the luxury (i.e. funds) to go with the electric. Even I am relying on my combustion-engines to this day.

Submitted by patb on June 12, 2008 - 7:19pm.

45K for a family sedan?
I can get a prius for 28K and it's backed by toyota

Submitted by temeculaguy on June 12, 2008 - 8:20pm.

That silver one in the picture is the roadster, being delivered now or soon and completely sold out. With regards to performance vs gas, it outperforms, 0-60 in 4.0 or similar, will outrun a lambo or ferrari at twice the cost but it completely sold out to celebs and the same ilk that buy ferrari's. They only made it to get street credibility and to prove that a car that gets over 100 mpg equivalent cost (that was when gas was $2.50) can perform and not be what they call a "punishment car" and what I call a "birth control car." Their white star was supposed to be similar to a 5 series bmw and go for 50k but their real invention was the battery and powerplant technology, how to take those high end remote control sports cars and make them big. They will likely never become an auto giant but go with a microsoft or intel business model and just make and license the power and battery for major auto makers. They don't make much more than that on their cars now, having lotus build the frame and body for the roadster. It's a silicon valley startup so that's my guess where things will end up and the Daimler talks is the first evidence that they are leaning that way.

I know you'd prefer a prius but there are many people out there who see their car as more than just a mode of transportation, the prius rules at the pump but fails everywhere else. Plus it's 50 mpg isn't enough, tesla technology would take the prius beyond 100 mpg equivalent and it's my guess that it will be incorporated into it. Or if someone else gets their first, it will put the prius out of business if you can get a mercedes c class to get 100 mpg for 40k, game over.

Submitted by flu on June 13, 2008 - 6:32am.

Regarding  Hybrid cars. From a pure financial sense, some numbers...

 

Toyota Prius $22,160 (if you can buy one for that).
Toyota Yaris $15,885 (almost same equipment)
$6,275 diff.
Prius 46mpg/avg
Yaris 32mpg/avg
prius 15k/yr $4.50/gal. = $1,467.41
Yaris 15k/yr $4.50/gal. = $2,109.38
diff = $641.97


9 years to see the savings.

Realistically, I believe you end up spending closer to $26k for a prius because toyota "makes" to get options you might not want, versus something else like a Yaris you can "strip" down a car (I don't see a point in folks that want basic transportation to load up the car with luxuries either).

Some claim prius is a mid-sized car, so this isn't a fair comparison... So, if you want a fairer comparison

Toyota Camry LE $20,685
Toyota Camry Hybrid $25,860
$5,175 diff.

Camry LE 25mpg/avg
Camry Hybrid 34mpg/avg

Camry LE 15k/yr $4.50/gal. = $2,700
Camry Hybrid 15k/yr $4.50/gal. = $1,985.29

diff = $714.71

It will take 7 years to recoup the cost.

Also, this doesn't include the cost of replacing the battery out-of-warranty if you plan on keeping the car for that long, which will currently set you back $3k for toyota's  and $2k for hondas respectively, though owners of the first gen prius have reported less than 1% needed a battery replacement. For me, I keep my cars until they go into the ground. Don't know if that applies to everyone though.

 

selfportrait

----- Sour grapes for everyone!

Submitted by Nor-LA-SD-guy on June 13, 2008 - 7:49am.

Is this real ???

You got to see this one: (a car that runs on water !!!)

http://www.yahoo.com/s/899388

Submitted by LarryTheRenter on June 13, 2008 - 8:24am.

It is all good....But it makes little sense to plug in an electric car to your outlet in your garage if that power is just being generated from carbon atoms like coal or oil....We need more Nuclear Power plants to be the source of the energy...If we could only get the bleeding hearts, save the dolphin crowd and the earth first people to stop equating nuclear power with nuclear bombs....Carbon atoms in the form of smog and the political realities of middle east policies, war etc have killed tens of thousands more than nuclear power plants have and will ever....

We need more companies like this and more work on the "supply side" of energy like nuclear and drilling in Anwar (sorry caribou) - if we are to break free from middle east oil...I dont want my kids going to another war in 20 years...

Submitted by Aecetia on June 13, 2008 - 8:53am.
Submitted by TheChaz on June 13, 2008 - 10:03am.

"But it makes little sense to plug in an electric car to your outlet in your garage if that power is just being generated from carbon atoms like coal or oil....We need more Nuclear Power plants to be the source of the energy...If we could only get the bleeding hearts, save the dolphin crowd and the earth first people to stop equating nuclear power with nuclear bombs."

Wait, we shouldn't equate nuclear power with nuclear bombs? I guess you'd be cool with Iran deingvelop a nuclear energy infrastructure, then, since the two have nothing to do with one another. :P

I agree that nuclear power plants are far less the problem than the hippie movement thought they would be, but that's mostly true because the cat is out of the nuclear weapons bag.

Also, it's true that plug-in cars are shifting the source of pollution to other hydrocarbon sources, but a major power plant has a better chance of exercising strict emissions controls than millions of individual cars on the road. Also, the whole idea is that over time, we'll develop more and better clean energy sources, and replace the dirty ones.

Submitted by LarryTheRenter on June 13, 2008 - 10:26am.

What does Iran have to do with nuclear plants in the US?...We already have nuclear power plants so adding more is mainly a political hurdle...

Submitted by cooperthedog on June 13, 2008 - 3:36pm.

LarryTheRenter:

Why invest all the time and money in nuclear (given the inherent risks) when it is still a finite resource (uranium, thorium, etc.)?

The only viable long term solution is to use the virtually endless supply of renewable energy provided by solar/hydro/wind/etc. This would break our dependence on oil, foreign or otherwise, as well as reduce carbon emmissions and avoid any nuclear accidents.

Drilling for more oil in ANWR and in coastal regions will only supply a fraction of what we currently consume and will not come anywhere near breaking our dependence on foreign oil. Of course, if you run a domestic integrated oil company and are paying $130 a barrel in the open market for oil to refine - the thought of drilling new wells in the US at a cost of $5-10 barrel would result in huge margins & profits, even if it doesn't affect global (much less US) supply that much. That is why the current administration, oil industry, and the thinktanks & talking heads that pander to them push such an agenda.

Submitted by svelte on November 23, 2019 - 1:14pm.

Any see the Tesla Cybertruck unveil?

Holy s&&t!

https://jalopnik.com/a-deep-look-at-the-...

This obviously a niche vehicle as it won't be widely accepted in the foreseeable future.

It definitely makes a statement.

I doubt it will ever hit the $40K starting price either.

Submitted by outtamojo on November 23, 2019 - 1:59pm.

I hit your link but something seems wrong with my display.
It doesn't seem to be rendering polygons correctly and makes the truck look it's from minecraft or something. Oh wait, article says that's really how it looks.
If the E F 150's and Silverados come out looking like regular trucks the cybertruck is toast, imo.

Submitted by flu on November 24, 2019 - 8:35am.

https://youtu.be/m7atGkba-Z8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6I1WSAI7G8

This truck is so obnoxiously ugly....I like it and put a deposit for it.

When I first saw the video with the millennial coworkers, I was like WTF. but after talking to them about it, they convinced me, that it's a great vehicle.

it's big, it's ugly, it has great acceleration, and it gets get mileage. it's a cross over between a Delorean and the Warthog from the video game Halo.

It looks like a vehicle you would drive at the end of the world, like Mad Max..It's the perfect vehicle for a lot of doomsayers here on Piggington that think the world is ending, I'm surprised more people here dont like it.

But back to the virtues of this vehicle. Dent resistant steel panels unpainted. You never need to buy collision insurance again. It's going to be difficult to dent the panels, and there's no paint to repaint
You probably need to increase liability coverage for the damage to do to other cars, lol. There's also Nno need to worry about people smashing your windows to steal stuff out of the car (they will fix that bulletproof glass that shattered). and this is the perfect vehicle to drive on la freeways because now you can safely cut people off and cut into lines without worrying about road rage and someone pulling out a gun to shoot you. People will notice you and won't run into you. It can haul a bunch of crap, you can put a solar panel on the rear and let it be self charging. And given how straight lines the body is (no curves) it's probably going to be fairly cheap to manufacture. Unlike these fancy Tesla model S and model 3 with rounded curve body lines.

This is basically a barebone truck that has the utility of a minivan and truck and has the mileage of a good EV.

sold!

Submitted by svelte on November 24, 2019 - 11:30am.

I'm not saying I hate it - there are very few cars I hate.

I admire that they did something different - I'm all for variety.

But it is not something I would ever buy, in the same way I'd never buy a Hummer. And I think most truck buyers would never consider buying it either.

It is basically a work of art, whether it is good art or bad art is in the eye of the beholder.

It is definitely form over function.

I noticed how they showed the video of it pulling a F-150 uphill in a tug of war event...seems legit to me given the likely weight and torque of the cybertruck.

At the same time, I notice there was no mention of how it does in mud or sand - that same weight that helped in the tug of war will become a severe liability in those conditions.

Not sure I agree with you on the ease/lack of repair. Delorean owners report that scratches are hard to repair and repairs are very noticeable due to the lack of paint. And that seam where the tailgate meets the side of the bed? That looks like an alignment nightmare.

Given that the Tesla fanbase is filled with greenie eco-weenies, this seems like a very curious choice of implementations. Something that big and heavy will use a lot of electric resources and, no matter how that is generated, it is not the most efficient use of those resources. How is his base going to get behind this without looking two-faced?

But again, glad to see someone try something truly different. I like seeing Hummers zipping around because they are different and the cybertruck will no doubt catch my eye around town too.

We are going to the LA auto show in a few days and would love to see this there. I'm hopeful!

Submitted by spdrun on November 24, 2019 - 12:54pm.

But if people are going to buy a large EthYooVee or pickup truck anyway, wouldn't you rather it be electric than fossil-fooled?

Submitted by outtamojo on November 24, 2019 - 6:13pm.

Mount a machine gun in the bed and you will be the envy of urban warlords everywhere.

Submitted by svelte on November 24, 2019 - 7:41pm.

flu wrote:
As a small start-up with limited resources, developing a new engine for the WhiteStar would obviously be problematic. Tesla Chairman Elon Musk let slip in an interview with Fox Business News that the company has reached a technology deal with German giant Daimler (formerly of DaimlerChrysler infamy). Without any official comment from Telsa yet (we'll update you when we here something), one possible scenario for the deal is that Daimler will provide engines for the range extended WhiteStar. Daimler has always struggled to make money from Smart and the micro-car builder has a 1.0L three cylinder engine that might make a good range extender. If Daimler supplied 10,000 or so of those engines to Tesla, it could help drive down Daimler's costs. The other possibility is that Tesla might be licensing battery management technology to Daimler, but that scenario seems less likely.

The above was the situation just eleven short years ago.

Look how far Tesla has come since then, with the Model S, Model X, and Model 3 all out and on the road. That'a pretty impressive for a startup.

I get very frustrated with Elon, but his record speaks for itself.

Submitted by Hobie on November 25, 2019 - 6:49am.

With the electric drive eliminating the rear axle, I was hoping it would have some kind of hydraulic lowering bed feature. Handy to some. It will look strange as a real work truck with a ladder rack.

Notice it is missing the side mirrors? Adding them on will definitely change its look.

But, it screams to be vinyl wrapped. Its perfect as a rolling billboard. Every tattoo, bail bond, etc. shop will be getting one of these.

They will never sell to a Dodge Ram diesel guy, but I think it will have good sales.

Submitted by burghMan on November 25, 2019 - 8:29am.

Hobie wrote:
With the electric drive eliminating the rear axle, I was hoping it would have some kind of hydraulic lowering bed feature. Handy to some. It will look strange as a real work truck with a ladder rack.

Notice it is missing the side mirrors? Adding them on will definitely change its look.

But, it screams to be vinyl wrapped. Its perfect as a rolling billboard. Every tattoo, bail bond, etc. shop will be getting one of these.

They will never sell to a Dodge Ram diesel guy, but I think it will have good sales.

Interesting point about the side mirrors, especially since a tow vehicle needs mirrors that stick out farther than normal.

America has a massive truck culture, people that buy trucks because that's what men drive. Even women buy them as a symbol of masculinity. Most of these buyers don't even use their trucks as trucks and the specs don't really matter, as long as it looks tough. These buyers need a big chrome grill and a loud engine. The Tesla won't be penetrating that market for a long time.

Another huge segment of the market is fleet vehicles that are purchased in bulk by corporations and government. With some modifications, Tesla could have some success selling into those markets if they can show that the total cost of ownership is lower over the long term.

I'm not ordering one, but I am keeping an eye on it. I tow a camping trailer and I'm interested in understanding how range is affected with a load. The lack of chargers in remote locations could also be an issue (will there be charging stations in Bishop or the canyonlands of Southern Utah?) I do like the high clearance. The offroad specs look better than any mainstream truck. It has potential, but for people that actually use a truck as a truck, there are many unanswered questions about the Tesla.

Submitted by spdrun on November 25, 2019 - 10:39am.

The base version will have one electric motor -- so there's still an axle. The motor will be hooked up to a differential and axle or independent suspension.

The most expensive version will use three motors, so this could mean an axle in front and two in-wheel motors in rear. But from Tesla's past designs, in-wheel motors aren't all that likely.

Submitted by flu on November 25, 2019 - 11:20am.

I'm guessing the lack of mirrors is because it will be replaced with cameras, which will be very interesting when it comes to regulations.

A decent vinyl wrap will cost $2000-4000 for a car like this. Not worth it because vinyl wraps aren't as durable as people think they are. Same with PPF.

I think with bare metal look that doesn't leave dent, leave it as is. Maybe get spray on plasti-dip, or go for that camouflage look...

It's not meant to look nice. It already isn't. I wonder if you can fit a miata in that bed ,lol...

Submitted by burghMan on November 25, 2019 - 12:09pm.

I don't think cameras can replace tow mirrors because you need something that has an angle that can see behind the length of the trailer. Cameras would still to have to stick out the side of the vehicle. I don't believe that tow mirrors are required by law, but anybody that does any significant amount of towing will want them. It would be a dealbreaker for me if it did not have them. Mirrors are an example of something where style and function don't always align. We are used to seeing big mirrors sticking out the side of standard, boxy trucks but they might not look good at all on the Tesla. Other functional accessories like running boards may also be a challenge.

The bed size is comparable to short bed F-150, slightly larger if I recall the details. Overall it seems to be able to do the same jobs that the big three "1/2 ton" models can do, and likely better.

Submitted by Myriad on November 25, 2019 - 2:30pm.

outtamojo wrote:
Mount a machine gun in the bed and you will be the envy of urban warlords everywhere.

So Toyota will still be the preferred brand for ISIS?

Submitted by flu on November 25, 2019 - 2:47pm.

burghMan wrote:
I don't think cameras can replace tow mirrors because you need something that has an angle that can see behind the length of the trailer. Cameras would still to have to stick out the side of the vehicle. I don't believe that tow mirrors are required by law, but anybody that does any significant amount of towing will want them. It would be a dealbreaker for me if it did not have them. Mirrors are an example of something where style and function don't always align. We are used to seeing big mirrors sticking out the side of standard, boxy trucks but they might not look good at all on the Tesla. Other functional accessories like running boards may also be a challenge.

The bed size is comparable to short bed F-150, slightly larger if I recall the details. Overall it seems to be able to do the same jobs that the big three "1/2 ton" models can do, and likely better.

have you checked out the camera system in the Chevy Bolt? It's pretty remarkable

Submitted by spdrun on November 25, 2019 - 4:51pm.

burghMan -- what if you had a provision for cameras on a trailer to send their image to screen(s) in the truck, either wirelessly or through Ethernet on the trailer harness? Done right, this could be better than mirrors.

Submitted by burghMan on November 25, 2019 - 9:51pm.

spdrun wrote:
burghMan -- what if you had a provision for cameras on a trailer to send their image to screen(s) in the truck, either wirelessly or through Ethernet on the trailer harness? Done right, this could be better than mirrors.

There are existing wireless camera systems for trailers. The big RVs often have rear cameras standard. But there different brands and no standard wireless protocol for the video. Plus it's nice to just use mirrors as you normally do, look to the left when switching lanes to the left, check the mirror, check the blind spot etc. But I could see Tesla selling their own add-on cameras as an option. Trailer owners would have to mount them themselves, and deal with batteries, etc. but it is certainly a workable solution.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on November 27, 2019 - 7:20am.

250K pre-orders on the new truck, someone likes it.

Submitted by PCinSD on November 27, 2019 - 10:25am.

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