OT - Are we too driven?

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Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 3, 2015 - 12:56pm

Young Banker Struggled With Quitting Goldman Before Death

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...

We used to hear of death from overwork in Japan. Now in Korea.

Is the Asian work ethic permeating the whole world? How are real estate prices affecting how much driven we are. Maybe the desire to have it all is causing us to work to death.

Don't remember all the talk about work when I was little.

Submitted by fun4vnay2 on June 3, 2015 - 1:30pm.

Sad to see a young guy dead who was really smart but not wise enough..

I have friends who are living in million dollar+ homes driving $70K+ cars but don't have any time.
they work even on weekends.., no time even for exercise..

they have set their priorities this way..

Submitted by The-Shoveler on June 3, 2015 - 2:40pm.

Seems to me there was even more pressure to work more and longer in the 80's and 90's than there is now.

Heck Cisco and Juniper will even pay you if you work weekends now days, they did not do that in the 90's.

Submitted by flyer on June 3, 2015 - 4:31pm.

Being driven has it's place in life, but we've always kept it balanced. Imo, being driven to the point of destroying your life, even when there is no financial necessity, points to a far deeper need one is trying to fulfill.

We never wanted to be the kind of people you hear about who worked themselves to death making a fortune and never had the time to enjoy it.

Life is short, and none of us really know how much time we'll have on earth, so, imo, it's best to make the most of life along the way.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on June 3, 2015 - 4:38pm.

It was required by the job. He tried to quit. His immigrant dad pushed him back in after quitting.

Dad probably wants to die.

Moral is...let your kids be.

Submitted by flyer on June 3, 2015 - 4:57pm.

From what we've seen with friends, many parents today are control
freaks--trying to force their kids into careers for which they may not even have an aptitude or any interest--so, of course, it doesn't work out.

We supported and encouraged our kids when it came to their careers--but the choices were theirs--not ours.

Submitted by joec on June 3, 2015 - 7:08pm.

I'd like to see the autopsy report on how he died...

When I worked in tech, I worked non-stop as well back in the 90s...It was common to leave work and light was out by then. His VPs are probably a lot worst though than I had it...course, I'm sure he's making tons more money.

Anyhow, I think the tough thing for kids and young people is you don't really "know" why you're even working that hard. For this guy, it sounds like he didn't last a year even.

The money isn't "as" much at his level, and without kids, mortgage, there was no, "I have to provide for my family" mentality.

Most likely, working that much is a very lonely experience since the article said he was there alone all the time...

I assume a lot of other analysts are in the same boat though. Maybe I should be more sympathetic, but until the autopsy report comes out, this "job" like many others generally suck. Work is work after all and if you want prestige, money, women, whatever, a lot of people sell themselves to the work life.

Until the reports come out though, I don't think I can say it's anyone's fault...other than his dad maybe. Not surprising he's an immigrant.

Just saw Jamie Dimon has joined the billionaire's club. From what the reports say, banking is still the highest percentage way for people to make billions if that's what you want (Tech is good too, but probably too hit/miss).

Submitted by flu on June 4, 2015 - 4:03am.

i have a sibling that worked for i-banking since they graduated from undergrad.... And it's not just Goldman newbies that have really long hours..Every i-bank newbie had long hours, at least for the very first 3-4 years, until you became an associate...Maybe 90+hours/week. The base pay was bad, but the bonus (at the time) was good sometimes 3-4x of base. My sibling commented that they enjoyed what they did, and that they didn't nearly have as much stress as those guys that were derivatives traders. Usually though, most folks in i-banking are done with before their thirties. Many end up doing something else not quite as grueling: hedge funds, VC's, etc.

I compared that to my startup days when I was young. I too put in maybe 70-80 hours, to the point that in one startup, we had a bunch of hammocks in there so you didn't even need to go home and sleep. Back then, it was kinda fun, since aside from work, you had a bunch of friends that just hung out. I didn't mind working long hours, because back then, it wasn't a drag, and you ended up spending most of your time with those people outside of work doing other things anyway.

In hindsight, it probably wasn't the most financially prudent thing to do. Even though stock options was alright, I remember blind dating this one girl that did reasonably well as a headhunter (not enough to retire on), but then spent all her money flipping homes in SF and bay area, and did well...Really well... I thought that was pretty cool, because among of sea of tech workers (male and female), she was one of the few people that was cruising along at her own pace, not really giving a shet about anything else. She was actually a pretty cool girl that was pretty good looking too, except at the time I was too dumb to care about dating. Typical geek, I was.,,,If I saw a talking frog on the street that would of turned into a princess if I kissed it, I would have picked up the frog and kept it as as frog thinking: "cool frog that can talk, I've never seen one before....." HA!

These days, with family and age, I wouldn't want to do something like that again...though sometimes, work tends to follow me home...

Submitted by SD Realtor on June 4, 2015 - 9:24am.

Well stated FLU!

Falls into the "If I knew at 25 what I know at 50" category.

I would be working a hell of alot less now!

lol...

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 4, 2015 - 11:52am.

If hard work is honorable and something young ambitious people will do, it begs the question: all else being equal, do older people who won't work as hard deserve their jobs?

Are old people who didn't save their money and invest it wisely up the creek, so to speak?

Submitted by livinincali on June 4, 2015 - 1:11pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Are old people who didn't save their money and invest it wisely up the creek, so to speak?

Yup unless they vote and use the governments guns to steal it from you at least.

Submitted by flu on June 4, 2015 - 1:16pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:

Are old people who didn't save their money and invest it wisely up the creek, so to speak?

Yes, pretty much.

Submitted by joec on June 5, 2015 - 6:40pm.

flu wrote:
i have a sibling that worked for i-banking since they graduated from undergrad.... And it's not just Goldman newbies that have really long hours..Every i-bank newbie had long hours, at least for the very first 3-4 years, until you became an associate...Maybe 90+hours/week. The base pay was bad, but the bonus (at the time) was good sometimes 3-4x of base. My sibling commented that they enjoyed what they did, and that they didn't nearly have as much stress as those guys that were derivatives traders. Usually though, most folks in i-banking are done with before their thirties. Many end up doing something else not quite as grueling: hedge funds, VC's, etc.

I compared that to my startup days when I was young. I too put in maybe 70-80 hours, to the point that in one startup, we had a bunch of hammocks in there so you didn't even need to go home and sleep. Back then, it was kinda fun, since aside from work, you had a bunch of friends that just hung out. I didn't mind working long hours, because back then, it wasn't a drag, and you ended up spending most of your time with those people outside of work doing other things anyway.

In hindsight, it probably wasn't the most financially prudent thing to do. Even though stock options was alright, I remember blind dating this one girl that did reasonably well as a headhunter (not enough to retire on), but then spent all her money flipping homes in SF and bay area, and did well...Really well... I thought that was pretty cool, because among of sea of tech workers (male and female), she was one of the few people that was cruising along at her own pace, not really giving a shet about anything else. She was actually a pretty cool girl that was pretty good looking too, except at the time I was too dumb to care about dating. Typical geek, I was.,,,If I saw a talking frog on the street that would of turned into a princess if I kissed it, I would have picked up the frog and kept it as as frog thinking: "cool frog that can talk, I've never seen one before....." HA!

These days, with family and age, I wouldn't want to do something like that again...though sometimes, work tends to follow me home...

Pretty spot on with my experience as well...I think when you're young, it wasn't that big a deal to work a lot since you really didn't have that much else to do. Might as well spend the time working, making more money, advancing in your career, taking courses in your field, etc...if you don't have kids/gf-wife, it was a lot easier to get ahead since those other folks couldn't do that and be "more dedicated".

It's just as you get older, it's simply harder to compete with the young gun who is determined and non-stop working. You get a bit more burnt out from the long hours, body is not as great, may have g/f-wife/kids, etc...

Just don't have time to dedicate it all to work anymore...I used to work and had so much vacation, I would start losing them.

I think for older folks to survive, you sorta have to also give it your all mostly if you want to succeed in work at least. Pretty tough with family so try to marry well with someone understanding if you can, but even then, it's a tough road (goodbye Jen Garner and Ben Afleck; Elon Musk, divorced 3 times?)...

I know someone who was in real estate too who is a multi-millionaire...I think some of that was timing luck during the boom.

In tech, if you were lucky, it only took 1 company (similar to the folks up there now...) to be set for life (at least financially). Have a friend already retired from being acquired...40s.

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