ObamaCare...coming soon

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Submitted by meadandale on July 16, 2009 - 11:48am

Seems like modeling our system after the Canadians should be a great idea...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

Submitted by poorgradstudent on August 30, 2011 - 11:19am.

Veritas wrote:
"Americans' opinion of Obamacare has reached an all-time post-passage low according to the Kaiser Health Tracking poll: only 39% of those surveyed have a favorable view of the law, two points below the previous nadir of 41% first set in May 2010. Forty-four percent of Americans have an unfavorable view."
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/poll-obamacare-support-all-time-low

Interestingly, "47%, believe the law "won't make much difference" in their own lives while 31% believe it will help and 14% say it will hurt." This is probably accurate, as the new law is unlikely to have much impact either way on most of the middle class, help the working class and have a small negative impact on the rich.

Also bear in mind that a portion of those with an unfavorable view of Obamacare are opposed from the Left, those who think it doesn't go far enough and is a poor substitute for Single Payer. Many of those against Obamacare probably view options floated by the right just as unfavorably or worse.

Submitted by briansd1 on August 30, 2011 - 12:30pm.

I prefer to call it Obama Cares. ;)

Submitted by Aecetia on August 30, 2011 - 3:50pm.

Brian, that is so sweet.

Submitted by Arraya on August 30, 2011 - 3:58pm.

briansd1 wrote:
I prefer to call it Obama Cares. ;)

LOL

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on August 30, 2011 - 6:08pm.

briansd1 wrote:
I prefer to call it Obama Cares. ;)

Brian: And Obama DOES care. I heard that he tipped the waitstaff and other menial labor quite handsomely during his trip to the Vineyard.

Submitted by CA renter on August 30, 2011 - 9:44pm.

poorgradstudent wrote:
Veritas wrote:
"Americans' opinion of Obamacare has reached an all-time post-passage low according to the Kaiser Health Tracking poll: only 39% of those surveyed have a favorable view of the law, two points below the previous nadir of 41% first set in May 2010. Forty-four percent of Americans have an unfavorable view."
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/poll-obamacare-support-all-time-low

Interestingly, "47%, believe the law "won't make much difference" in their own lives while 31% believe it will help and 14% say it will hurt." This is probably accurate, as the new law is unlikely to have much impact either way on most of the middle class, help the working class and have a small negative impact on the rich.

Also bear in mind that a portion of those with an unfavorable view of Obamacare are opposed from the Left, those who think it doesn't go far enough and is a poor substitute for Single Payer. Many of those against Obamacare probably view options floated by the right just as unfavorably or worse.

Absolutely. I truly dislike Obamacare, but not because it's "too socialistic."

Submitted by Veritas on September 18, 2011 - 1:56pm.

"The U.S. health care system is deeply, deeply broken and Obamacare is going to make things even worse. Health care is one of the top reasons why American families get pushed into poverty."

http://www.zerohedge.com/node/438067

Submitted by blahblahblah on September 18, 2011 - 4:06pm.

I'm about to head down to TJ for a checkup. Went to a US doctor a couple of weeks back and it was such a poor experience I'm going to try the other side of the border. Lucky for us here in SD we always have that option if things continue to get worse...

Submitted by SK in CV on September 18, 2011 - 4:19pm.

Veritas wrote:
"The U.S. health care system is deeply, deeply broken and Obamacare is going to make things even worse. Health care is one of the top reasons why American families get pushed into poverty."

http://www.zerohedge.com/node/438067

You know that really isn't a bad article. But that line you quoted seems out of place. There isnt' a shred of evidence in the article that HCR has anything to do with the deeply broken system. Nor any evidence that it will make things worse. Nowhere else in the article (that I could find anyway) is HCR even mentioned. It's nothing more than a gratuituous hack that diminishes the value of an otherwise well written article.

Submitted by CA renter on September 18, 2011 - 4:32pm.

SK in CV wrote:
Veritas wrote:
"The U.S. health care system is deeply, deeply broken and Obamacare is going to make things even worse. Health care is one of the top reasons why American families get pushed into poverty."

http://www.zerohedge.com/node/438067

You know that really isn't a bad article. But that line you quoted seems out of place. There isnt' a shred of evidence in the article that HCR has anything to do with the deeply broken system. Nor any evidence that it will make things worse. Nowhere else in the article (that I could find anyway) is HCR even mentioned. It's nothing more than a gratuituous hack that diminishes the value of an otherwise well written article.

Agreed.

That was a very good article, BTW.

Submitted by gandalf on September 18, 2011 - 9:20pm.

Agree. Good article. Misleading post. Smells like a talking point...

By the way, you can always tell a Republican in the room because they lie about their farts.

"Oh, it wasn't me..."

Submitted by Aecetia on September 19, 2011 - 11:32am.

I will take at a stab at it, but agree the title is not explained by the information provided. I believe he is referring to the burdensome tax code included in the health care legislation that will cause more of the insatiable entitlement increases. The fact that large companies are being granted waivers to get out of the health care system requirements should certainly set off alarms for anyone who thinks this legislation is going to deliver what it purports to provide. In my opinion, health care is out of control in terms of increased costs to people and this legislation (Obamacare) gave the companies carte blanche to gouge us even more. Eventually someone is left holding the stick and they have to pay. And gandalf, we all know it is the family dog that is doing the farting!

Submitted by SK in CV on September 19, 2011 - 2:18pm.

Aecetia wrote:
I will take at a stab at it, but agree the title is not explained by the information provided. I believe he is referring to the burdensome tax code included in the health care legislation that will cause more of the insatiable entitlement increases. The fact that large companies are being granted waivers to get out of the health care system requirements should certainly set off alarms for anyone who thinks this legislation is going to deliver what it purports to provide. In my opinion, health care is out of control in terms of increased costs to people and this legislation (Obamacare) gave the companies carte blanche to gouge us even more. Eventually someone is left holding the stick and they have to pay. And gandalf, we all know it is the family dog that is doing the farting!

You have no idea what you're talking about. The private company waivers maintain coverage until the full force of the ACA takes effect in 2014 when those waivers end. The state waivers require at least the equivilent benefits as would be required under the ACA, just meet those requirements in a different way. Neither type of waiver allows anyone to "get out of the health care system requirements". Additionally, based on the last published data, more than 1/3 of the waivers are for supplemental employer HRA plans, which require underlying plans to meet all ACA requirements. So those waivers are for providing coverage over and above what would otherwise be required.

So the alarm being set off in your head is one of ideology, not of actual facts.

Submitted by Aecetia on September 19, 2011 - 6:49pm.

Wow Sk thanks for enlightening me. Now I feel better.
I like most of Congress did not read the entire package. However, I am basing the increases on the Insurance Companies continuing to gouge us who are currently insured. I have no idea how they get away with it, but my rates have sure gone up significantly since the passage of the bill.

"For example, in September 2010, The Wall Street Journal also reported that health insurers have been forced to raise premiums “as a direct result of the health overhaul."
http://biggovernment.com/tfitton/2011/01...

"Aetna, one of the nation's largest health insurers, said the extra benefits forced it to seek rate increases for new individual plans of 5.4% to 7.4% in California and 5.5% to 6.8% in Nevada after Sept. 23. Similar steps are planned across the country, according to Aetna. Previously the administration had calculated that the batch of changes taking effect this fall would raise premiums no more than 1% to 2%, on average."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

Submitted by Hobie on September 19, 2011 - 7:02pm.

Pull my finger, gandalf ! har...

Seriously. As much as I dislike Obamacare we will have it regardless if it gets repealed. Tell you why.

Today people are not saving for retirement like our parents generation did. Many people who have owned for a while are taking a reverse mortgages or HELOC to maintain their current lifestyle.

When age starts requiring more health care these folks will not have the money to pay for it nor the premiums.

So when the vast numbers are lining up at emergency rooms for old age care, we will see a surge for government supplied health care-- Obamacare.

I see a 10-15 year window before it is demanded by the masses.

Submitted by Aecetia on September 19, 2011 - 7:04pm.

"Fearful of retribution by HHS Secretary and chief inquisitor Kathleen Sebelius, who has threatened companies speaking out about Obamacare’s perverse consequences, many business owners who obtained waivers refused to talk to me on the record. One said tersely: 'We did what we had to do to survive.'”

http://michellemalkin.com/2010/11/17/dud...

Dude, where's my waiver?

Submitted by Aecetia on September 19, 2011 - 7:17pm.

"After two years of nonstop focus on health care, the president has stopped talking about the law's far-reaching effects. Now he is concentrating on a few micro changes. Meanwhile the administration is working hard to dampen controversy by handing out buckets of waivers and attacking Republicans over Medicare."

http://spectator.org/archives/2011/09/12...

Submitted by bearishgurl on September 19, 2011 - 7:19pm.

Aecetia wrote:
Wow Sk thanks for enlightening me. Now I feel better.
I like most of Congress did not read the entire package. However, I am basing the increases on the Insurance Companies continuing to gouge us who are currently insured. I have no idea how they get away with it, but my rates have sure gone up significantly since the passage of the bill.

"For example, in September 2010, The Wall Street Journal also reported that health insurers have been forced to raise premiums “as a direct result of the health overhaul."
http://biggovernment.com/tfitton/2011/01...

"Aetna, one of the nation's largest health insurers, said the extra benefits forced it to seek rate increases for new individual plans of 5.4% to 7.4% in California and 5.5% to 6.8% in Nevada after Sept. 23. Similar steps are planned across the country, according to Aetna. Previously the administration had calculated that the batch of changes taking effect this fall would raise premiums no more than 1% to 2%, on average."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...

Aecetia, I have an Aetna Advantage PPO individual plan. My rates have increased 3x since the passage of the HCRA. Overall, they have gone up 8.5% in these three rate hikes. During this time, I have only filed minimal claims for routine care.

Due to age and the fact that I am "grandfathered in" on a certain plan configuration which was no longer offered in their individual lineup after the passage of HCRA, I am reluctant to disturb it. I can only hope for the best until I reach the age of 65 (assuming Medicare is still around), and then convert it to a Medicare supplement and "Part D" policy.

Submitted by Aecetia on September 19, 2011 - 7:31pm.

I know how you feel. The rates are ridiculous and unlike what Obama and his crew said, the State is not doing anything about the gouging except some half-a$$ attempt at Blue Cross Anthem.[Are more Californians finally ready to ditch the private, for-profit health insurance industry? Here comes yet another reason to do so. Last week, The Los Angeles Times reported that California insurance regulators approved Anthem Blue Cross rate hikes averaging between 14% and 20% on individual policyholders. Anthem competitor Blue Shield was allowed rate increases averaging between 19% and 29%. The hikes are to take effect Oct. 1.]
http://californiaonecare.org/anthem-blue...

Who knows, maybe they are "bundling" for him and his pals?

The whole thing is a joke and all it did was drive up costs for those of us who pay for insurance and drive up profits for big insurance companies. Change. Not really seems like the same crap as the last group and with more hypocrisy thrown in.

Submitted by SK in CV on September 19, 2011 - 7:52pm.

bearishgurl wrote:

Aecetia, I have an Aetna Advantage PPO individual plan. My rates have increased 3x since the passage of the HCRA. Overall, they have gone up 8.5% in these three rate hikes. During this time, I have only filed minimal claims for routine care.

Due to age and the fact that I am "grandfathered in" on a certain plan configuration which was no longer offered in their individual lineup after the passage of HCRA, I am reluctant to disturb it. I can only hope for the best until I reach the age of 65 (assuming Medicare is still around), and then convert it to a Medicare supplement and "Part D" policy.

I assure you that nothing in the ACA caused those increases. I know this because I've actually read the bill, and know that there hasn't been any substantial burden on insurance companies that have gone into effect yet. (covering kids up to age 26? A money maker for insurance companies. Thats a demographic that rarely consumes health care dollars. Aetna and Anthem Blue Cross internal numbers put the increased burden as a result of the ACA at 2.4 and 2.6% respectively for calendar year 2012. Zero for 2010 and 2011.) Insurance companies raise rates when they can. It's highly likely that 2012 will be an extraordinarily competitive year for group coverage in most of the country, and rates may even fall.

I presume you're aware that an 8.5% increase over the last 2 1/2 years is substantially less than average increases over the previous 10 years? That would be things getting better, not worse.

What exactly makes your plan grandfathered?
Are you saying you have a multi-year contract that can't be changed or withdrawn? I wasn't aware those contracts existed.

Submitted by SK in CV on September 19, 2011 - 7:56pm.

Aecetia wrote:

The whole thing is a joke and all it did was drive up costs for those of us who pay for insurance and drive up profits for big insurance companies. Change. Not really seems like the same crap as the last group and with more hypocrisy thrown in.

Be precise here, how exactly has it driven up prices? What is the mechanism in the law that caused that?

Here's one good thing (one of the best things) that the new law will do. If those Anthem increases fall to the bottom line, Most all of it will be returned to the policy holders. Without the law, that would not have happened.

Submitted by bearishgurl on September 19, 2011 - 9:03pm.

SK in CV wrote:
I assure you that nothing in the ACA caused those increases. I know this because I've actually read the bill, and know that there hasn't been any substantial burden on insurance companies that have gone into effect yet. (covering kids up to age 26? A money maker for insurance companies. Thats a demographic that rarely consumes health care dollars. Aetna and Anthem Blue Cross internal numbers put the increased burden as a result of the ACA at 2.4 and 2.6% respectively for calendar year 2012. Zero for 2010 and 2011.) Insurance companies raise rates when they can. It's highly likely that 2012 will be an extraordinarily competitive year for group coverage in most of the country, and rates may even fall.

I presume you're aware that an 8.5% increase over the last 2 1/2 years is substantially less than average increases over the previous 10 years? That would be things getting better, not worse.

What exactly makes your plan grandfathered?
Are you saying you have a multi-year contract that can't be changed or withdrawn? I wasn't aware those contracts existed.

SK, the HCRA is only coming up on 1.5 years old (3-21-10). Thus, those 3 rate-hikes were all within 16 months, the last one being in July.

All the excuses given to me in the "rate-hike letters" I rec'd were that "costs were rising in my area." I can see this at a micro level when a typical mammogram, for instance, has gone from $111 to $121 to $166 in the last three years.

I took out my policy 7 yrs ago, originally in a "group plan." My current plan is under the same member number as when I was in the group, but is now an "individual plan." I never used COBRA (which was more expensive than an individual plan [if one had no pre-existing conditions]). I went thru the "qualification process" for an individual plan, instead.

This is a generic copy of my 1st "rate-hike" ltr after the HCRA was passed.

Aetna rate-hike ltr

Submitted by bearishgurl on September 19, 2011 - 9:19pm.

SK, my understanding of the HCRA is that the carriers currently have to accept everyone who applies for an individual policy but can charge premiums according to risk until 2014. My fear is that when 2014 comes they will have to lower the premiums of these high users of health care and charge the rest of us in the same age group accordingly to make up the difference. That will really hurt the healthy boomer set that cannot yet qualify for Medicare!

Submitted by Aecetia on September 19, 2011 - 9:38pm.

Just one of the top ten failures of Obamacare:

"Some Americans have already had a spike in the cost of their insurance premiums of an astounding 20% to 60%. Insurance companies have raised premiums in double-digit increases. For example, Blue Shield of California​ recently increased some of its individual plans by 59%, saying that 4% of the increase is a direct result of the new health care law."

"Now, the CBO projects that the average American family will pay $2,100 more on health care premiums when the law is fully implemented (an increase of 10% to 13%)."

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?i...

Submitted by Veritas on September 19, 2011 - 9:50pm.

Hearing Confirms ObamaCare Increases Costs, Uncertainty for Employers

WASHINGTON, D.C. | March 10, 2011 -

"Today, the Subcommittee on Health, Employment, Labor, and Pensions held a hearing to investigate the rising cost of employer-provided health care and its impact on workers. Members of the subcommittee heard testimony that described a number of factors contributing to the growing expense, including the Democrats’ recent government takeover of health care."
http://edworkforce.house.gov/News/Docume...

Submitted by blahblahblah on September 19, 2011 - 9:59pm.

My insurance went up a whole s***load right after the Hope and Change went into effect. Good thing I live near TJ, I can always just downsize to a catastrophic plan and do all my health care down there.

Submitted by Veritas on September 19, 2011 - 10:34pm.

Just curious how you pick a physician in TJ. Do you have someone who recommended one or?

Submitted by SK in CV on September 19, 2011 - 10:46pm.

bearishgurl wrote:
SK, my understanding of the HCRA is that the carriers currently have to accept everyone who applies for an individual policy but can charge premiums according to risk until 2014. My fear is that when 2014 comes they will have to lower the premiums of these high users of health care and charge the rest of us in the same age group accordingly to make up the difference. That will really hurt the healthy boomer set that cannot yet qualify for Medicare!

Your understanding is not correct.

Submitted by SK in CV on September 19, 2011 - 10:50pm.

Aecetia wrote:
Just one of the top ten failures of Obamacare:

"Some Americans have already had a spike in the cost of their insurance premiums of an astounding 20% to 60%. Insurance companies have raised premiums in double-digit increases. For example, Blue Shield of California​ recently increased some of its individual plans by 59%, saying that 4% of the increase is a direct result of the new health care law."

"Now, the CBO projects that the average American family will pay $2,100 more on health care premiums when the law is fully implemented (an increase of 10% to 13%)."

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=42461

Wow. 4% out of 59% is because of the new law. That's about 1.5% more than their closely related associate, Anthem Blue Cross has as their internal numbers. But you might as well blame the entire increase on the law. What the hell.

Submitted by Veritas on September 19, 2011 - 11:16pm.

What's good for the goose: "Grassley said, 'It’s only fair and logical that top administration officials, who fought so hard for passage of this overhaul of America’s health care system, experience it themselves. If it’s as good as promised, they’ll know it first-hand. If there are problems, they’ll be able to really understand them, as they should.'”

http://newledger.com/2010/03/exempted-fr...

"This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes." Morpheus

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