nationwide foreclosure moratorium!

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Submitted by BigGovernmentIsGood on October 8, 2010 - 7:26am

Bank of America just announced a moratorium on foreclosures in all 50 states. Stop paying your mortgage! We've got 'em on the ropes!

Submitted by jpinpb on October 8, 2010 - 7:45am.

Are they still issuing loans, b/c I think I've reached the end of my rope and if that's the game plan, screw it. I'm going out to buy the first place I can and join all the squatters. DH will have to get over it. This is just ridiculous. That's like announcing free rent for all the homeowners.

Submitted by Coronita on October 8, 2010 - 7:47am.

la la la la la la la la la la

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 8, 2010 - 8:02am.

can we all agree that at least these houses are shadow inventory?

Submitted by fun4vnay2 on October 8, 2010 - 8:02am.

I think People in this forum are very naive as they are missing what's really happening around

Message is clear all around:: Buy the place n don't pay the mortgage n live rent free

Do anyone message any clearer than this ?
Guys: this is happening for last 3 years in one form or another..

Submitted by SD Realtor on October 8, 2010 - 8:39am.

Watch me pull another rabbit out of my hat!

Submitted by fun4vnay2 on October 8, 2010 - 9:39am.

SD Realtor wrote:
Watch me pull another rabbit out of my hat!

I think from now on the waiters will be the losers...

Probably, for me time to look for a aggressive Realtor.

Submitted by Coronita on October 8, 2010 - 10:09am.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/BofA-halts...

lol...Senator dodd's quote:


"American families should not have to worry about losing their homes to sloppy bureaucratic mismanagement or fraud," Dodd said. "Regulators at the federal, state, and local levels have a responsibility to uphold the law and protect consumers from unfair foreclosure, and lenders have a duty to not cut corners around the law."

Sure...foreclosed people are "victims".....

Dear Senator Dodd,

"(Honest) Americans should not have to worry about losing their life savings to sloppy bureaucratic mismanagement or fraud commited by the government," Flu said. "Regulators at the federal, state, and local levels have a responsbility to uphold the law and protect taxpayers from unfair gouging by the IRS,state,local goverments, and pension boards, and judges have a duty to not cut corners in enforcing laws".

Submitted by davelj on October 8, 2010 - 10:10am.

We always knew that both the irresponsible lenders and their irresponsible borrowers were responsible for this mess (choose your own personal weighting).

Now we see further confirmation of how incestuous this relationship is. Irresponsible servicers (the largest owned by irresponsible banks) cut corners to foreclose on irresponsible borrowers and now the latter are suing the former. It's actually pretty hysterical in a way. I mean, the borrowers are supposed to get foreclosed on - they're not paying and they certainly don't deserve to stay in the property. But because the servicers haven't gone about foreclosing on them in a completely technically legal manner (robo-signing and god knows what else), the borrowers have some flimsy, and ultimately unenforceable, claim on the property.

Anyhow, this just delays the inevitable. All of these deadbeats will ultimately be removed from their residences (or get modifications). But the servicers are going to take it in the arse in terms of additional expense and hassle. And inventory will continue to be kept off the market, with the predictable impact on prices.

Submitted by davelj on October 8, 2010 - 10:16am.

flu wrote:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/BofA-halts-foreclosure-sales-apf-977158216.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=3&asset=&ccode=

lol...Senator dodd's quote:

"American families should not have to worry about losing their homes to sloppy bureaucratic mismanagement or fraud," Dodd said.

"Their homes"? THEIR homes?! That is rich. These are not THEIR homes - they're the LENDERS' homes! A home becomes YOUR home after you've paid off the mortgage. Until then, the lender is the senior partner in the arrangement and gets to choose what happens when you break the contract and stop paying. And this clown is on the Senate Banking Committee... no wonder we're in such deep shit.

Now clearly the servicers haven't handled this process well at all. And they deserve to lose their asses. But please. THEIR homes? That makes me ill.

Submitted by dbapig on October 8, 2010 - 10:33am.

davelj wrote:
flu wrote:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/BofA-halts-foreclosure-sales-apf-977158216.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=3&asset=&ccode=

lol...Senator dodd's quote:

"American families should not have to worry about losing their homes to sloppy bureaucratic mismanagement or fraud," Dodd said.

"Their homes"? THEIR homes?! That is rich. These are not THEIR homes - they're the LENDERS' homes! A home becomes YOUR home after you've paid off the mortgage. Until then, the lender is the senior partner in the arrangement and gets to choose what happens when you break the contract and stop paying. And this clown is on the Senate Banking Committee... no wonder we're in such deep shit.

Now clearly the servicers haven't handled this process well at all. And they deserve to lose their asses. But please. THEIR homes? That makes me ill.

If you stretch that a bit, US isn't our nation but other nationss that hold our debt... Just saying...

Submitted by faterikcartman on October 8, 2010 - 10:57am.

Just another way to enact the looter's "transfer of wealth" dreams. People who don't pay taxes (or very much), or their mortgage, or 2nd, are bailed out by people who do. So people who earned their money get is stolen and given to people who did not. Sadly, much of this will be paid off by your children, their children, and so on, through no fault, or voting, of their own.

Submitted by creechrr on October 8, 2010 - 11:06am.

Quote:

If you stretch that a bit, US isn't our nation but other nationss that hold our debt... Just saying...

Very good point.

I think the only reason we haven't had demonstrations or riots by the "responsible" and the ultimately parties that will be pay for this mess, is that we all have friends or family that are somehow caught up in this mess.

I do know that the America that I was taught about in school was either propaganda or was sold off to other interests some time ago. It absolutely does NOT exist today.

From what I have seen around me over the last decade or so, the rewards go to the lazy, dishonest and plain old irresponsible.

Submitted by davelj on October 8, 2010 - 11:21am.

dbapig wrote:
davelj wrote:
flu wrote:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/BofA-halts-foreclosure-sales-apf-977158216.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=3&asset=&ccode=

lol...Senator dodd's quote:

"American families should not have to worry about losing their homes to sloppy bureaucratic mismanagement or fraud," Dodd said.

"Their homes"? THEIR homes?! That is rich. These are not THEIR homes - they're the LENDERS' homes! A home becomes YOUR home after you've paid off the mortgage. Until then, the lender is the senior partner in the arrangement and gets to choose what happens when you break the contract and stop paying. And this clown is on the Senate Banking Committee... no wonder we're in such deep shit.

Now clearly the servicers haven't handled this process well at all. And they deserve to lose their asses. But please. THEIR homes? That makes me ill.

If you stretch that a bit, US isn't our nation but other nationss that hold our debt... Just saying...

That is incorrect. US Government Bills, Notes and Bonds are unsecured (aside from the "full faith and credit" of the US Government - which is not tangible). A mortgage is a secured debt collateralized by a tangible asset (property).

I would refer to the nations that hold our debt as subordinated stakeholders. But not owners.

Submitted by jpinpb on October 8, 2010 - 12:10pm.

davelj wrote:

"Their homes"? THEIR homes?! That is rich. These are not THEIR homes - they're the LENDERS' homes! ...... THEIR homes? That makes me ill.

Good point!!! If it's their home, then no charges should be filed against the cop for destroying the house.

Submitted by briansd1 on October 8, 2010 - 12:31pm.

Let's look at it another way.

As Binyamin Appelbaum of the NY Times said, the banks have from the beginning insisted on the letter of the law -- they can continue to pay huge bonuses because employment contracts are binding.

Now, homeowners are saying that there is a legal process for foreclosing on collateral. The banks should follow the procedures and produce the documents to prove that they have the right to the collateral.

Is that too much to ask?

Submitted by davelj on October 8, 2010 - 12:48pm.

briansd1 wrote:
Let's look at it another way.

As Binyamin Appelbaum of the NY Times said, the banks have from the beginning insisted on the letter of the law -- they can continue to pay huge bonuses because employment contracts are binding.

Now, homeowners are saying that there is a legal process for foreclosing on collateral. The banks should follow the procedures and produce the documents to prove that they have the right to the collateral.

Is that too much to ask?

Personally, I don't think it's too much to ask. The servicers should execute their duties within the confines of the law. And, at last, that's what they're going to be compelled to do. But... let's not pretend that it's "their" (the foreclosed "homeowner's") home and that foreclosure is some injustice that they have some right to avoid. That's ridiculous. The victimhood is a bit much. Avoiding foreclosure is really simple: pay your mortgage. I wonder how many of these folks are paying their mortgage payment into escrow while all of these details are worked out? Yeah... that's what I thought.

Submitted by gandalf on October 8, 2010 - 2:48pm.

I agree deadbeats should lose their homes.

Just wondering, where's the outrage re: financial services corporations and the bullshit mortgage securitization racket these criminals ran for more than a decade? Where are the consequences for Wall Street?

Losses in financial services dwarf the amount lost from Joe Deadbeat defaulting on his mortgage. Shouldn't bankrupt financial institutions have been put out of business, assets sold off and restructured? Employees who perpetrated fraud and white collar crimes put in jail?

Yeah, I know. The big banks fail and everyone else gets wiped out too. Can't let that happen. So we have to bail them out. Bend over, America. Then pay executives bonuses on shitty performance using taxpayer money.

Lots of people here all upset about 'Deadbeat Joe' and his mortgage. People upset with Obama. Just wondering, where are all of the 'Angry People' when it comes to banks? Countrywide? AIG? Goldman Sachs?

Silence...

Crickets...

This is how the Greatest Ripoff in the History of the World goes down. Corporate financiers speeding off in a getaway car rapping "Damn, it's good to be a Gangster."

Submitted by jpinpb on October 8, 2010 - 3:07pm.

gandalf wrote:
Just wondering, where's the outrage re: financial services corporations and the bullshit mortgage securitization racket these criminals ran for more than a decade? Where are the consequences for Wall Street?

...... Just wondering, where are all of the 'Angry People' when it comes to banks? Countrywide? AIG? Goldman Sachs?

I think they're all too busy being up in arms about cops and firemen risking their lives for their exorbitant wages.

Submitted by SD Realtor on October 8, 2010 - 3:40pm.

At this point it is all laughable. However this sort of move is no surprise at all to any of us. Those who have been promising the tsunami year after year after year simply did not account for the sheer magnitude of the force they were dealing with. Quite frankly housing is initimately entwined with the fabric of our entire economy. This time around securitization was woven into the mix to only further entangle the nations financial resources, pensions, savings, you name it.

The moratorium does have merit based on posts that sdr made in the previous thread. The default process does need to be followed carefully and there really is no excuse for it not to be. Quite frankly, the servicing organizations that go through the default process are/were woefully understaffed. For many reasons these organizations didn't handle the processing correctly. Given the sheer numbers involved it is reasonable to estimate costs into the 10s or hundreds of millions of dollars to create the PROPER infrastructure needed to do the job correctly and efficiently. It is also reasonable to assume these organizations were in no great rush nor was there any incentive by the govt to have them rush and do it right.

Once again, all of the events leading up to this may seem well orchestrated, but in reality are consequences of greed, cutting costs, and pretty much nobody really caring. It is basically a win win for deadbeats, banks, and the govt.

The only real losers are hard working people who pay their mortgage in a timely manner and those who are looking to buy a home.

Submitted by paramount on October 8, 2010 - 9:32pm.

This moratorium means (1) thing to me: This Housing/Economic Crisis ain't over yet.

Submitted by paramount on October 8, 2010 - 9:45pm.

I wonder if there was a moratorium during Great Depression 1 and what the effects were of such a moratorium.

Submitted by Rich Toscano on October 8, 2010 - 10:31pm.

gandalf wrote:
Just wondering, where are all of the 'Angry People' when it comes to banks? Countrywide? AIG? Goldman Sachs?

Silence...

Crickets...

Are we reading the same website?

Submitted by CA renter on October 9, 2010 - 12:16am.

gandalf wrote:
I agree deadbeats should lose their homes.

Just wondering, where's the outrage re: financial services corporations and the bullshit mortgage securitization racket these criminals ran for more than a decade? Where are the consequences for Wall Street?

Losses in financial services dwarf the amount lost from Joe Deadbeat defaulting on his mortgage. Shouldn't bankrupt financial institutions have been put out of business, assets sold off and restructured? Employees who perpetrated fraud and white collar crimes put in jail?

Yeah, I know. The big banks fail and everyone else gets wiped out too. Can't let that happen. So we have to bail them out. Bend over, America. Then pay executives bonuses on shitty performance using taxpayer money.

Lots of people here all upset about 'Deadbeat Joe' and his mortgage. People upset with Obama. Just wondering, where are all of the 'Angry People' when it comes to banks? Countrywide? AIG? Goldman Sachs?

Silence...

Crickets...

This is how the Greatest Ripoff in the History of the World goes down. Corporate financiers speeding off in a getaway car rapping "Damn, it's good to be a Gangster."

Great post, gandalf.

Submitted by davelj on October 9, 2010 - 9:14am.

jpinpb wrote:
gandalf wrote:
Just wondering, where's the outrage re: financial services corporations and the bullshit mortgage securitization racket these criminals ran for more than a decade? Where are the consequences for Wall Street?

...... Just wondering, where are all of the 'Angry People' when it comes to banks? Countrywide? AIG? Goldman Sachs?

I think they're all too busy being up in arms about cops and firemen risking their lives for their exorbitant wages.

I think the problem is the ease with which blame can be identified and directly assigned.

The deadbeat homeowners are easy. Living in a house for years on end without making mortgage payments is clearly wrong (albeit technically legal up until foreclosure). If you can't make the payments, give the keys to the bank and let them sell it to someone else. Don't fight it through some bogus claim that it's "yours" and you "deserve" a modification. Move out and let both parties - borrower and lender - move on. So, Joe Deadbeat is easily identified and his actions are transparently wrong. And the issue is easy to understand.

Where the "financiers" (or "banksters") are concerned, things are more complicated. Sure, there are some easily-identifiable villains: Dick Fuld, Joe Cassano, Stan O'Neal, Angelo Mozilo, and a handful of others. But the rest - that teeming herd of banksters that works just beneath the media radar - are more difficult to identify. And it's harder to assign specific blame for their actions at an individual level. And that is because for the vast majority of them - as sad as this is - they didn't actually know they were doing anything wrong. For example, I'm sure that most of the folks in AIG's Financial Products division were very smart and diligent. They weren't actually trying to blow up the financial system. But in hindsight we know that very few of them were smart enough to know that their products were flawed and could bring down the financial system in the grander scheme of things. Now, some of this might have been the result of willful ignorance. (It's hard to convince someone to understand something if their compensation is based on not understanding it.) But I think more of it was just pure ignorance regarding the big picture. And THAT layer of folks has tens of thousands of people throughout Wall Street. So, compared to Joe Deadbeat, not only is it harder to specifically identify that next layer of bankster misfits, what they were/are doing is more difficult to understand to the average person on the street. I would bet that less than 1% of the US Population actually understands the role that John Paulson and Magnetar played in making the whole financial crisis substantially worse than it would have been without them.

Sure, we here at the Pigg bitch about banksters. But to the man on the street, Joe Deadbeat is easier to identify and understand. There is plenty of outrage amongst the populace regarding the financiers... but aside from the obvious villains it's harder to pin down individuals for specific evil actions.

Submitted by Aecetia on October 9, 2010 - 11:48am.

I am wondering what will happen to the people who bought the foreclosures. Will they be booted out? This just keeps getting weirder every day.

Submitted by raty4R on October 9, 2010 - 12:06pm.

From my reading, this moritorium is not just about foreclosures and who actually owns the title on the house but, the sloppiness that occured in the foreclosure process, is also comming into question in the loan origination process(don't know the proper terms becasue I'm not a realtor/loan person)
Investors in MBS are questiong the underwriters(?) and loan insurance companies(?) saying they 'machine' stamped the loan approvals. Not properly verifying income, appraisals, comps, etc., resulting in fraudulent loans. These fraudulent loans were packaged into MBS's and misrepresented as AAA rated. Now the buyers of the MBSs are wanting the banks to take them back.
Interesting times. If only I could figure out how to make money off of this...

Submitted by Aecetia on October 9, 2010 - 12:36pm.

I am sure there are going to be loads of class action law suits targeting various banks, loan agencies and their assorted minions. The real losers or the biggest losers will be the tax payers who bailed out the banks.

Submitted by SK in CV on October 9, 2010 - 2:51pm.

Dodd's comments were misdirected at best. It really doesn't have anything to do (in most cases) families losing their homes to sloppy bureaucratic mismanagement or fraud. It's about making the lenders follow the rules the same way the lenders insist that borrowers follow the rules. Credit card companies jack up interest rates when a borrower is late on a payment on a different credit card. They close HELOCs because they "think" equity has eroded. They do these things because, to the letter of the law, and their written agreements, they're allowed to. Lenders and loan servicers SHOULD be held to these same kinds of standards in the foreclosure process.

The parties that should really be outraged by this is the investors in those loans. The banks, investment houses, the MBS holders. For those that are happy every time a house gets foreclosed, because another cause of the bubble gets their just reward, should be just as elated at this. The lenders and packagers were just as responsible. Now they get theirs. It will take time, but eventually all the dirty laundry will be cleaned from the system.

Patience.

As an aside, it's a bit unclear to me why the moratorium include california and other states with non-judicial foreclosure, and rather lax document substition rules. Are loan servicers so dumb that they can't figure out in which states these fuck-ups are important?

Answered my own question. Nevermind.

Submitted by jpinpb on October 9, 2010 - 4:14pm.

SK in CV wrote:

As an aside, it's a bit unclear to me why the moratorium include california and other states with non-judicial foreclosure, and rather lax document substition rules.

Which states had the biggest bubble? Which states need the extend-pretend the most?

Clear to me. It doesn't surprise me one bit they included California.

Submitted by CA renter on October 9, 2010 - 10:55pm.

davelj wrote:
jpinpb wrote:
gandalf wrote:
Just wondering, where's the outrage re: financial services corporations and the bullshit mortgage securitization racket these criminals ran for more than a decade? Where are the consequences for Wall Street?

...... Just wondering, where are all of the 'Angry People' when it comes to banks? Countrywide? AIG? Goldman Sachs?

I think they're all too busy being up in arms about cops and firemen risking their lives for their exorbitant wages.

I think the problem is the ease with which blame can be identified and directly assigned.

The deadbeat homeowners are easy. Living in a house for years on end without making mortgage payments is clearly wrong (albeit technically legal up until foreclosure). If you can't make the payments, give the keys to the bank and let them sell it to someone else. Don't fight it through some bogus claim that it's "yours" and you "deserve" a modification. Move out and let both parties - borrower and lender - move on. So, Joe Deadbeat is easily identified and his actions are transparently wrong. And the issue is easy to understand.

Where the "financiers" (or "banksters") are concerned, things are more complicated. Sure, there are some easily-identifiable villains: Dick Fuld, Joe Cassano, Stan O'Neal, Angelo Mozilo, and a handful of others. But the rest - that teeming herd of banksters that works just beneath the media radar - are more difficult to identify. And it's harder to assign specific blame for their actions at an individual level. And that is because for the vast majority of them - as sad as this is - they didn't actually know they were doing anything wrong. For example, I'm sure that most of the folks in AIG's Financial Products division were very smart and diligent. They weren't actually trying to blow up the financial system. But in hindsight we know that very few of them were smart enough to know that their products were flawed and could bring down the financial system in the grander scheme of things. Now, some of this might have been the result of willful ignorance. (It's hard to convince someone to understand something if their compensation is based on not understanding it.) But I think more of it was just pure ignorance regarding the big picture. And THAT layer of folks has tens of thousands of people throughout Wall Street. So, compared to Joe Deadbeat, not only is it harder to specifically identify that next layer of bankster misfits, what they were/are doing is more difficult to understand to the average person on the street. I would bet that less than 1% of the US Population actually understands the role that John Paulson and Magnetar played in making the whole financial crisis substantially worse than it would have been without them.

Sure, we here at the Pigg bitch about banksters. But to the man on the street, Joe Deadbeat is easier to identify and understand. There is plenty of outrage amongst the populace regarding the financiers... but aside from the obvious villains it's harder to pin down individuals for specific evil actions.

Good post, dave, and think you nailed the elusive nature of the truly guilty parties in the financial system.

I would disagree, though, about the lack of knowledge regarding the eventual outcome of these "innovations" in finance. I'm not involved in finance (other than trading), never took an econ or banking class, and wasn't privy to the inner workings of the mortgage market, but could easily see where things were going back in 2004. If I could see it, surely "the experts" could have seen it. It's hard to believe that so many people who had that much power were so completely incompetent.

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