Nationswide protests-will they spread?

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Submitted by sunny88 on October 9, 2011 - 5:57pm

Occupy Wall Street protests, now in their 23rd day, are spreading across the country. Protesters have gathered in more than a dozen U.S. cities, from Boston to Chicago to San Diego.

In less than a month, Occupy Wall Street protests have stretched across the country.

As the movement spreads, it has begun targeting more than just greed and social inequality.

I get the sense that the civil unrest will spread further and eventually result in violence. What do you think?

Submitted by CA renter on October 10, 2011 - 3:51am.

No, the protestors are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. They are dedicated to non-violence.

Of course, there is always the threat of plants, and I have no doubt that some entities will try to make the OWS movement look bad by infiltrating it and attempting to make them look violent, unfocused, and ridiculous.

You can tell the OWS movement is right on target because the financial industry is desperately trying to convince people that Washington is the problem. They are out there in large numbers trying to divert attention away from themselves (like they managed to do with the Tea Party), but the OWS folks are wise to their tactics and will remain on target.

The financial industry needs to be taken out of politics. As it stands, they own Washington. Washington doesn't control Wall Street; Wall Street controls Washington, which is why the pressure needs to be placed squarely on the financial industry.

This movement is long overdue.

Submitted by Jazzman on October 10, 2011 - 8:10am.

It's spread to Canada and right across the Atlantic ...it's worldwide. Irony is the West has been trying to impose democracy in the middle east, but the Arab Springs has shown us how to reclaim ours. Yes, there will almost certainly be violence as there nearly always is. I don't think that matters much for as long as it doesn't become bigger than the cause.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 10, 2011 - 8:44am.

I can't make it to the revolution but I'd be happy to mount the bumpersticker.

What's it say?

Submitted by jpinpb on October 10, 2011 - 9:13am.

I was wondering when someone was going to post about OWS on this blog. I was getting ready to do it myself.

I like some of the OWS Demands

LIST OF PROPOSED "DEMANDS FOR CONGRESS

1.CONGRESS PASS HR 1489 ("RETURN TO PRUDENT BANKING ACT" http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd... ). THIS REINSTATES MANY PROVISIONS OF THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act --- Wiki entry summary: The repeal of provisions of the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999 effectively removed the separation that previously existed between investment banking which issued securities and commercial banks which accepted deposits. The deregulation also removed conflict of interest prohibitions between investment bankers serving as officers of commercial banks. Most economists believe this repeal directly contributed to the severity of the Financial crisis of 2007–2011 by allowing Wall Street investment banking firms to gamble with their depositors' money that was held in commercial banks owned or created by the investment firms. Here's detail on repeal in 1999 and how it happened: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass–Steagall_Act#Repeal .

2.USE CONGRESSIONAL AUTHORITY AND OVERSIGHT TO ENSURE APPROPRIATE FEDERAL AGENCIES FULLY INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE THE WALL STREET CRIMINALS who clearly broke the law and helped cause the 2008 financial crisis in the following notable cases: (insert list of the most clear cut criminal actions). There is a pretty broad consensus that there is a clear group of people who got away with millions / billions illegally and haven't been brought to justice. Boy would this be long overdue and cathartic for millions of Americans. It would also be a shot across the bow for the financial industry. If you watch the solidly researched and awared winning documentary film "Inside Job" that was narrated by Matt Damon (pretty brave Matt!) and do other research, it wouldn't take long to develop the list.

3.CONGRESS ENACT LEGISLATION TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY BY REVERSING THE EFFECTS OF THE CITIZENS UNITED SUPREME COURT DECISION which essentially said corporations can spend as much as they want on elections. The result is that corporations can pretty much buy elections. Corporations should be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media. This legislation should also RE-ESTABLISH THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES IN THE U.S. SO THAT POLITICAL CANDIDATES ARE GIVEN EQUAL TIME FOR FREE AT REASONABLE INTERVALS IN DAILY PROGRAMMING DURING CAMPAIGN SEASON. The same should extend to other media.

4.CONGRESS PASS THE BUFFETT RULE ON FAIR TAXATION SO THE RICH AND CORPORATIONS PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE & CLOSE CORPORATE TAX LOOP HOLES AND ENACT A PROHIBITION ON HIDING FUNDS OFF SHORE. No more GE paying zero or negative taxes. Pass the Buffet Rule on fair taxation so the rich pay their fair share. (If we have a really had a good negotiating position and have the place surrounded, we could actually dial up taxes on millionaires, billionaires and corporations even higher...back to what they once were in the 50's and 60's.

5.CONGRESS COMPLETELY REVAMP THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION and staff it at all levels with proven professionals who get the job done protecting the integrity of the marketplace so citizens and investors are both protected. This agency needs a large staff and needs to be well-funded. It's currently has a joke of a budget and is run by Wall St. insiders who often leave for high ticket cushy jobs with the corporations they were just regulating. Hmmm.

6.CONGRESS PASS SPECIFIC AND EFFECTIVE LAWS LIMITING THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYISTS AND ELIMINATING THE PRACTICE OF LOBBYISTS WRITING LEGISLATION THAT ENDS UP ON THE FLOOR OF CONGRESS.

7.CONGRESS PASSING "Revolving Door Legislation" LEGISLATION ELIMINATING THE ABILITY OF FORMER GOVERNMENT REGULATORS GOING TO WORK FOR CORPORATIONS THAT THEY ONCE REGULATED. So, you don't get to work at the FDA for five years playing softball with Pfizer and then go to work for Pfizer making $195,000 a year. While they're at it, Congress should pass specific and effective laws to enforce strict judicial standards of conduct in matters concerning conflicts of interest. So long as judges are culled from the ranks of corporate attorneys the 1% will retain control.

8.ELIMINATE "PERSONHOOD" LEGAL STATUS FOR CORPORATIONS. The film "The Corporation" has a great section on how corporations won "personhood status". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SuUzmqBewg . Fast-forward to 2:20. It'll blow your mind. The 14th amendment was supposed to give equal rights to African Americans. It said you "can't deprive a person of life, liberty or property without due process of law". Corporation lawyers wanted corporations to have more power so they basically said "corporations are people." Amazingly, between 1890 and 1910 there were 307 cases brought before the court under the 14th amendment. 288 of these brought by corporations and only 19 by African Americans. 600,000 people were killed to get rights for people and then judges applied those rights to capital and property while stripping them from people. It's time to set this straight.

Submitted by sdrealtor on October 10, 2011 - 10:44am.

Ironically one of my past clients has been sending me this stuff and is going crazy with it. They had refied out a few hundred K to remodel their house and then lost jobs. We tried to sell their house before the bubble popped but werent fast enough. They fell behind by over $100K. One day someone ofrom the bank knocked on their door with an offer about 3 years ago. They wrote off the missed payments and wrote down their loan about $200K so they got over $300K in foregiveness. Its the only case I have heard of like that.

I just dont get what about the system they are unhappy about.

Submitted by briansd1 on October 10, 2011 - 11:11am.

There is a lot of discontent.

I understand the discontent with a financial system where the elite gets to make money out of money. Most of the time it's leveraged money thanks to access to a system that provides them credit. And when they lose money, they get a bailout.

People are sick of a trickle down system where money is dumped at the top, with the belief that it eventually trickles down to the average person.

I think that young educated people are at the forefront of social trends and I'm with them.

I supported the anti-war movement at the beginning and I support the Occupy movement now.

To have a better democracy, we need to energize people to vote, especially at the lower social economic levels.

Submitted by briansd1 on October 10, 2011 - 11:19am.

walterwhite wrote:
I can't make it to the revolution but I'd be happy to mount the bumpersticker.

What's it say?

I can't make it to the Revoluatione either. But I'm happy to make a financial contribution.

I will be in NYC next weekend and I'll stop by lower Manhattan to say hi and feel part of history. I hope the protesters are still there.

http://occupywallst.org/

Submitted by ctr70 on October 10, 2011 - 12:08pm.

Instead they should be marching on the state capitols against the ridiculous pensions and health care benefits paid to Government worker retirees that is bankrupting the state and cities. That is where the real rape & pillage of the tax payer is happening.

Submitted by CA renter on October 10, 2011 - 3:29pm.

ctr70 wrote:
Instead they should be marching on the state capitols against the ridiculous pensions and health care benefits paid to Government worker retirees that is bankrupting the state and cities. That is where the real rape & pillage of the tax payer is happening.

No. That fairy tale has been spread by the financial elite to take the heat off of themselves.

Wall Street caused the "pension crisis" via their boom-bust machinations, and is solely responsible for the downfall of our economy.

The OWS movment knows about this fairy tale and how it's being used to turn working people agains working people. We are the 99%. We are working together for ALL working people against the capitalists (those who do not labor for their money, but skim the value created by the productive class) who have destroyed our contry and the world. Wall Street will not distract us like they did with the Tea Party movment. We are staying on target.

Submitted by jstoesz on October 10, 2011 - 3:35pm.

Deleted...

I am not going to poke the bear.

Damn the man!

Submitted by jpinpb on October 10, 2011 - 3:43pm.

CA renter wrote:
ctr70 wrote:
Instead they should be marching on the state capitols against the ridiculous pensions and health care benefits paid to Government worker retirees that is bankrupting the state and cities. That is where the real rape & pillage of the tax payer is happening.

No. That fairy tale has been spread by the financial elite to take the heat off of themselves.

Wall Street caused the "pension crisis" via their boom-bust machinations, and is solely responsible for the downfall of our economy.

The OWS movment knows about this fairy tale and how it's being used to turn working people agains working people. We are the 99%. We are working together for ALL working people against the capitalists (those who do not labor for their money, but skim the value created by the productive class) who have destroyed our contry and the world. Wall Street will not distract us like they did with the Tea Party movment. We are staying on target.

Government kept the interest rates low for a very long time. This forced investors to put their money elsewhere, like real estate. Cities invested their money gambling, rather than putting it in the bank drawing practically zero interest. The city's financial problems can be traced to the bubble popping and the collapse of the economy. Of course, historically, divide and conquer. Turn people against each other. Blame it on the pensioners.

This is old. I'm so glad OWS gets it. Go to the source of all of this financial crisis mess. The buck stops there.

Submitted by Veritas on October 10, 2011 - 4:05pm.

Some people think this is just a warm up for 2012.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/video-ex...

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 10, 2011 - 5:24pm.

Now for my latest conspiracy theory .
In order to quell this latest OWS movement, look to see the economy suddenly start adding Jobs and the markets to recover in a big way.

WHAT!!

Yea I have more of them.

Submitted by harvey on October 10, 2011 - 4:54pm.

jpinpb wrote:
Blame it on the pensioners.

I think the most likely suspects are those who came out the crisis completely unscathed.

That would be many Wall Street/banker types, but also the "pensioners."

The pensioners were actually more crafty in their scheme. Some bankers may eventually pay for their crimes, but the law provides absolute protection for anyone receiving a government pension.

Submitted by masayako on October 10, 2011 - 11:08pm.

Just the bailouts of the large corporations alone is worth the revolution. This is just unacceptable to help the Rich by taking advantage of the Low and Middle classes.

Submitted by temeculaguy on October 10, 2011 - 11:29pm.

This will fizzle out because as I just posted on the recession thread, the recession will end and none of this will matter. Why you ask? Because of the Detroit Lions and the Detroit Tigers.

This isn't a joke, the last bad economic times we felt were the late 1970's and the 1980 US Olympic Hockey team ended that. It's well documented, don't watch the movie "miracle," watch the documentary.

You people believe it was foreign policy, politics, Reagan. Hogwash, it was the hockey team. I cry every time I watch that documentary right when Al Michaels screams "do you believe in miracles." Because they saved us from the russians and opec. College kids beat Russian pros, against all odds and energized a nation.

Tonight, the lions went to 5-0, the freaking lions, the worst team in football from the worst hit city in America. The crowd was galvanized and energized. they punked the bears in statistical ways never before done in the bears 92 year history. I thought I heard chants of "U S A" in the back of my mind circa 1980. The detroit tigers may go to the world series 9I can;t describe the games because baseball makes me fall asleep faster than tylenol PM).

But that's it, the protests will end, the epitome of the working man, the detroit fan, has started the next real revolution. I'm not a detroit sports fan, but i am a student of the human collective psyche, that same psyche that propelled New Orleans to a superbowl post katrina and if all you do is read about politics and believe in politics, you are going to miss the truth as it happens. I still think the packers win the division, but I'm smart enough not to bet against the lions at home because the world just changed, just like it did in 1980. This revolution will start in the motor city and it wont be because of voting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkzoAhAS0Kg

Submitted by temeculaguy on October 11, 2011 - 12:10am.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWX7DzCEt...

I'm getting a Lions jersey, just so I can always remember my theory about where it started, who's with me, plenty of seats left on this bandwagon.

Ford field set an attendance record tonight. The cradle of blue collar on this hemisphere is being described on espn as the the northern version of the french quarter. When the angriest become the most invested and jubilant, the protest signs find the trash can. Sorry, the park is closed, the moose out front should have told you. But maybe in about 8 years we can do this all again, in fact you can bet on it, but this phase is about to end. I'm making preparations for the climate to change, the real question is, are you? If you aren't, you are no better than the bubble buyers who felt everything will always go in the same direction that it has recently. So instead of housing always goes up, the phrase is gold will always go up, the economy will worsen, jobs will be lost, politicians will waste money. You believe it because you've seen it happen lately and you read experts telling you it will continue. Ever wonder if that 2007 home buyer read something about real estate always going up, matched that with what he'd seen for a few years and he felt he was right. That's you right now, you are going to miss it, you missed the lions game, you are missing the signs, I'm doing you a favor, hopefully you wont realize it two years too late.

Submitted by CA renter on October 11, 2011 - 12:29am.

pri_dk wrote:
jpinpb wrote:
Blame it on the pensioners.

I think the most likely suspects are those who came out the crisis completely unscathed.

That would be many Wall Street/banker types, but also the "pensioners."

The pensioners were actually more crafty in their scheme. Some bankers may eventually pay for their crimes, but the law provides absolute protection for anyone receiving a government pension.

Again, the benefits are protected/guaranteed, but the source of the pension contributions can vary. Public workers have been contributing more and more over the past few years. In many cases, taxpayers are not contributing anything at all toward the pensions -- the employees are paying 100% of the contributions to their pensions.

The public union workers did not at all come out unscathed. Have you completely missed all the layoffs, benefit cuts, introduction of a two-tiered system in many municipalities, wage and benefit cuts, etc.??? In the meantime, compensation for the financial elite is at all-time highs. Not only that, but the PTB has managed to brainwash all the idiots into believing that the unions have caused all our problems. The public union employees had **NOTHING** to do with the "financial crisis" and the recession/depression.

You're right...suspect those who came out unscathed.

The OWS movement will stay on target. The financial industry is 100% responsible for our economic problems, including the "pension crisis." Fix the problems/corruption in the financial sector, and most of our other problems will largely disappear after a period of adjustment.

Submitted by harvey on October 11, 2011 - 7:19am.

CA renter wrote:
Not only that, but the PTB has managed to brainwash all the idiots into believing that the unions have caused all our problems.

Nobody believes that unions cause all the problems. They are one of the problems.

I grew up in the rust belt. I know firsthand what unions can do to an economy.

You really believe that only "1%" of the population is greedy?

Submitted by Coronita on October 11, 2011 - 7:31am.

deleted... no need to poke the bear.

Submitted by jpinpb on October 11, 2011 - 7:52am.

TG - That was like a real football game should be played. I'm glad Detroit won. They have so little.

Reminded me of the ATT commercial where the parents are trying to decide if the boy or girl can pick what gets recorded. The girl has the nice hair and they like her better, but the boy has so little, let him pick.

Detroit played well and they deserve the win. I'm glad for them.

Now back to the matter at hand. I hope OWS stays on course. Hopefully others won't get sidetracked as to the real cause of this whole mess. While many played a part in it, the root of the problem lies w/Wall St bankers and the politicians they own.

Submitted by briansd1 on October 11, 2011 - 8:31am.

Actually, I agree with CA renter that Wall Street is responsible for the financial crisis. They developed the products that allowed greed and irresponsbility to flourish.

State and local government funding is another problem but they did not cause the financial crisis.

That being said, the pensioners were greedy and they got want they wanted. The cutbacks at the state and local levels do not hurt the pensioners who are guaranteed the benefits by law. The cutbacks are hurting ordinary citizens who are doing without services.

Submitted by poorgradstudent on October 11, 2011 - 8:48am.

Corporate profits are up. Salaries and employment are still down. What's not to hate? The 1% have a lot of explaining to do.

Submitted by harvey on October 11, 2011 - 8:52am.

briansd1 wrote:
State and local government funding is another problem but they did not cause the financial crisis.

Right. Problem is, folks are dumbing it down and calling it "the" financial crisis. There are multiple problems.

Quote:
That being said, the pensioners were greedy and they got want they wanted. The cutbacks at the state and local levels do not hurt the pensioners who are guaranteed the benefits by law. The cutbacks are hurting ordinary citizens who are doing without services.

Yup. Greed is greed.

Submitted by sdduuuude on October 11, 2011 - 9:20am.

I think it will die on the vine as well - simply because there is nothing to actually do. I support their right to protest and I don't hate their list of demands, but I just don't think it will accomplish anything tangible.

"Wall Street" is not a person or an organization. It's like protesting against vapor and hoping to control it.

"Hey you wall street people - yeah, you thousands of people there. Stop that. I'm not sure what you are doing but I have no money and I think it is your fault. So, stop it - whatever it is you are doing - and everything will be OK." I just don't see it going anywhere.

It seems the protesters have accepted the notion that how the banks go is how our economy goes - I guess Paulson convinced them - and so they feel the need to exercise some control over the banks.

I see it this way - instead of dictating how the banks operate in order to keep our economy more stable, we really need to disassociate the health of the economy from the health of private banks so we can let them fail when they do stupid things. This way, we don't have to spend all this time and effort manipulating the banking industry with a spiderweb of regulations, loopholes, bail-outs and closed-door meetings with federal reserve officers under the guise that that it helps the economy. We can just let the stupid banks fizzle away.

And, in the long run, keeping the stupid banks alive only results in a weaker baning system anyway.

The OWS crowd should really be protesting the federal reserve banking system but somehow it is "Wall Street's" fault. I guess they are in bed together, though. With some luck, maybe the OWS will transform into an anti-federal-reserve movement, in which case maybe it will go somewhere useful.

Submitted by NotCranky on October 11, 2011 - 9:28am.

Wake me up when someone protesting sets himself on fire, or whatever the American equivalent is...Turning off the TV? Dropping that Big Gulp?

Submitted by GH on October 11, 2011 - 10:08am.

Finally, Americans behaving like Americans.

Freedom is not to be taken for granted!

Submitted by UCGal on October 11, 2011 - 10:32am.

The most concise goals of OWS that I've seen are here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK1MOMKZ8BI

Basically
- reinstate Glass Steagall
- audit the fed
- reverse citizens united
- overhaul the tax code.

Those are tangible goals.

I also see a lot in common with the OWS movement and the very early tea party movement - before it got co-opted by Dick Army and the GOP... When Santelli declared we should have a tea party to protest the bailouts - and folks started hanging out outside the homes of bankers who got HUGE bonuses, after taking TARP money and being bailed out... That wasn't a left/right thing - that was anger about how the losses of the banks were socialized, but the riches, in the forms of bonuses, were privatized... But then the tea party became about hatred of Obama and turned inot something else.

The underlying anger and populist feeling never went away - just got converted.

The United States has had a long history of protests actually having an impact on goverment.

* Boston Tea Party - similar to todays OWS move in many ways - protests were against government giving tax advantage to the East India Trading company at the expense of other folks.
* Womens movement
* Labor movement- very big in the 1930s - but lots of different protests.
* 1960's student protests against the war, for civil rights, ets.
* Tea Party protests.... Can't say they haven't impacted the way congress is acting - or the presidential candidates are acting.

I first took notice of the OWS thing a few weeks ago (with the macing of the 4 girls, followed the next week by the police corralling people so they could arrest them on the Brooklyn bridge.) And my initial reaction was that the country was reaching a tipping point - where the corporations and the politicians they've bought and paid for might have to take notice.

Submitted by jpinpb on October 11, 2011 - 1:03pm.

UCGal - thanks for the concise list. The list I posted details a few goals. Good thing the American Revolution had some people w/backbone and conviction.

Submitted by sdduuuude on October 11, 2011 - 1:10pm.

UCGal wrote:
I also see a lot in common with the OWS movement and the very early tea party movement - before it got co-opted by Dick Army and the GOP

Interesting you should say that. The same thought popped into my head as well as I was reading this thread.

It seems to me that both sides of the left/right spectrum hate the socialized loss + privatized gains.

I would guess the OWS crowd would tend towards "socialized loss, socialized gain"

I'm firmly in the "privatized loss + privatized gain" side.

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