Mortgage Rate Advice Needed (News with UWM )

User Forum Topic
Submitted by pinkflamingo on May 13, 2020 - 12:12pm

We are in the process of refinancing our home. Currently at a 30/3.6% fixed rate. Found a lender that will do a 30/2.875 with 0.2 points buy down, 3K to close. However, to get that rate, we would need to decrease our balance by 50K because we are right at a cuttoff for high balance loan.

Last night I looked up news on interest rates and found that UWM is coming out with a new loan program called conquest and the rates can be as low as 2.5-3.0
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/uwm...

Decided to inquire further and talked to a lender with UWM. The gotcha there is that it requires a 22 day close. And after that it is .1 percent increase per day. Lender said they would not lock the rate until the appraisal to make sure it closes in time. But they think that they can refi our loan to 2.875 for 5k close, without having to pay the 50K balance.

I am worried about the risk of rates fluctuating waiting for an appraisal. Figured I turn to this forum to seek some advice. And maybe it will also help people who are in the process of refi.

Cheers

Submitted by pinkflamingo on June 5, 2020 - 11:46am.

Fyi, we decided to go with UWM. They were able to close in 22 days. They waive the appraisal if you are financially sound. They fund tomorrow. 3 week refi. Pretty neat.

Submitted by gzz on June 5, 2020 - 3:14pm.

Wow 2.5%? Last I looked the average rate was 3.3 so I figured the lower balance/good credit/online lender rates would be around 3.

Question: anyone ever do a "bulk refi" where they refi their primary and their rentals all at the same time? I don't mean one big loan, just not have to do all the rifi paperwork confirming income and assets and income tax returns all at once. One lender replaces 3 old loans with three new loans, no cash out. And also limiting hard inquiries to 1.

Submitted by HLS on June 7, 2020 - 2:37pm.

I am a mortgage broker who deals with UWM. Conquest program is good for those who qualify. 22 days is correct, without extension costs.

2.50% is available, it costs thousands of dollars.
3.00% is also available, but has a cost today, depending on loan amount.
There is no one rate that fits everyone.
Rate/pricing changes a bit everyday.

UWM is wholesale only and does not have a retail channel.
UWM does not waive appraisals for being "financially sound"
Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac determine whether there is an appraisal waiver on a file.

GZZ I have done multiple loans at one time, but each loan is a separate file. Paperwork is only required once. Only one credit report is required. they all must close at the same time.
It may not be in your best interest to have all loans go to the same lender.

FYI: Hard inquiries on a credit report are almost meaningless.
Unless someone is getting hard inquiries month after month, an occasional inquiry will not affect a credit score

Submitted by gzz on June 25, 2020 - 5:07pm.

I used to do CC bonus churning which caused my lowest score to go low as 770, near the danger zone to get the best mortgage rates.

Not a problem now, it has been two years since I did this and now have 848 with whatever score chase and amex provide on their website for free.

Golden age of churning and $750-$1000 per new CC bonus is now over.

Submitted by HLS on July 1, 2020 - 12:44am.

More myths & misinformation

Credit score of 770 is nowhere near the "danger zone" to get the best mortgage rates. The more equity one has the lower the credit score can be and you still get the best pricing.
In 20 years, I have never seen anyone with an 848 mortgage score.

I don't doubt that you are seeing that with the free score from Amex or Chase, but it's probably not your mortgage score.

Credit scores are pretty much meaningless except when you're apply for credit or a mortgage. Scores can vary with huge ranges
for various reasons

Submitted by sdrealtor on September 4, 2020 - 11:32am.

After getting 3.125 in December 2013 for a no cost refi I figured it would be a cold day in hell before I refinanced again. Today I put on a down jacket in a heatwave. Locked in 2.625 on 30 year with no points and out of pocket costs around $1000. The 20 year was no lower and I didn't think the 15 was low enough to commit to shorter amortization schedule. I'll be making payments most months well above what my 15 year payment would've been but Also wanted to leave some borrowing powder dry for the ADU I hope to add. Also this is for a self employed borrower. Had I been w-2 guy I could've gotten a bit lower. Saving about $150/month in interest. I guess this is what they call found money

Submitted by svelte on September 4, 2020 - 1:03pm.

That's fabulous sd. Never would have believed we'd see rates like this.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 4, 2020 - 7:04pm.

im not sure i can see a future where having no mortgage is the smart move for anyone with some other assets and income. low interest rates, no stock growth, gold stable or falling...it just just doesnt seem plausible based on the last 20 years.

i cant get promo credit card interest deals for 12 months at 2.625% nowadays

Submitted by svelte on September 4, 2020 - 9:08pm.

scaredyclassic wrote:
im not sure i can see a future where having no mortgage is the smart move for anyone with some other assets and income.

that doesn't sound like a scaredy cat...has this site affected your outlook?

I'm at the age where I just want to pay off everything and cruise into retirement. I'm paying down my cars, my mortgage, electricity is now free. I don't have any kids to support, my wife lets me do whatever the f I want when I want to do it. What else could I ask for?

I can now look forward to retirement in a few years where all I do is pay my various taxes, my insurance, buy a bit of food and live worry free. I'll sleep when i want, eat when I want, get intoxicated when I want, travel when I want, answer to no one.

The day is coming up fast and I am ready.

Submitted by Coronita on September 5, 2020 - 4:15am.

svelte wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:
im not sure i can see a future where having no mortgage is the smart move for anyone with some other assets and income.

that doesn't sound like a scaredy cat...has this site affected your outlook?

I'm at the age where I just want to pay off everything and cruise into retirement. I'm paying down my cars, my mortgage, electricity is now free. I don't have any kids to support, my wife lets me do whatever the f I want when I want to do it. What else could I ask for?

I can now look forward to retirement in a few years where all I do is pay my various taxes, my insurance, buy a bit of food and live worry free. I'll sleep when i want, eat when I want, get intoxicated when I want, travel when I want, answer to no one.

The day is coming up fast and I am ready.

I dont miss making mortgage payments, but with rates this low, if I still had one, I would definitely be refinancing.

I thought about refinancing with a cashout so I can buy more properties. I guess I'm getting lazy and going back and forth on whether I want to destabilize things and take on more risk. I like having a very positive cash flow despite still working, and work has never been a drag for me, so maybe I'll try to work for a few more years and wait to see if we have a correction in the housing market. I want to pick up at least 2 more properties and then I will be done.

I have 3 more years of accumulating in the 529k account, and kid should be set for a 4 year bachelor's in the worst case scenario at a private school.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 5, 2020 - 7:48am.

svelte wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:
im not sure i can see a future where having no mortgage is the smart move for anyone with some other assets and income.

that doesn't sound like a scaredy cat...has this site affected your outlook?

I'm at the age where I just want to pay off everything and cruise into retirement. I'm paying down my cars, my mortgage, electricity is now free. I don't have any kids to support, my wife lets me do whatever the f I want when I want to do it. What else could I ask for?

I can now look forward to retirement in a few years where all I do is pay my various taxes, my insurance, buy a bit of food and live worry free. I'll sleep when i want, eat when I want, get intoxicated when I want, travel when I want, answer to no one.

The day is coming up fast and I am ready.

Maybe ive grown from scaredycat to cynicalcat. I cant see a future where the markets are permitted to reset. Or where markets are free.

At 0 percent interest, best to have a mortgage. At close to zero, same. 2.5% probably that too.

Submitted by sdrealtor on September 5, 2020 - 9:16am.

svelte wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:
im not sure i can see a future where having no mortgage is the smart move for anyone with some other assets and income.

that doesn't sound like a scaredy cat...has this site affected your outlook?

I'm at the age where I just want to pay off everything and cruise into retirement. I'm paying down my cars, my mortgage, electricity is now free. I don't have any kids to support, my wife lets me do whatever the f I want when I want to do it. What else could I ask for?

I can now look forward to retirement in a few years where all I do is pay my various taxes, my insurance, buy a bit of food and live worry free. I'll sleep when i want, eat when I want, get intoxicated when I want, travel when I want, answer to no one.

The day is coming up fast and I am ready.

sounds wonderful

Submitted by sdrealtor on September 5, 2020 - 9:18am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
svelte wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:
im not sure i can see a future where having no mortgage is the smart move for anyone with some other assets and income.

that doesn't sound like a scaredy cat...has this site affected your outlook?

I'm at the age where I just want to pay off everything and cruise into retirement. I'm paying down my cars, my mortgage, electricity is now free. I don't have any kids to support, my wife lets me do whatever the f I want when I want to do it. What else could I ask for?

I can now look forward to retirement in a few years where all I do is pay my various taxes, my insurance, buy a bit of food and live worry free. I'll sleep when i want, eat when I want, get intoxicated when I want, travel when I want, answer to no one.

The day is coming up fast and I am ready.

Maybe ive grown from scaredycat to cynicalcat. I cant see a future where the markets are permitted to reset. Or where markets are free.

At 0 percent interest, best to have a mortgage. At close to zero, same. 2.5% probably that too.

I want it paid off. This will help me do it faster.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 5, 2020 - 11:40am.

svelte wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:
im not sure i can see a future where having no mortgage is the smart move for anyone with some other assets and income.

that doesn't sound like a scaredy cat...has this site affected your outlook?

I'm at the age where I just want to pay off everything and cruise into retirement. I'm paying down my cars, my mortgage, electricity is now free. I don't have any kids to support, my wife lets me do whatever the f I want when I want to do it. What else could I ask for?

I can now look forward to retirement in a few years where all I do is pay my various taxes, my insurance, buy a bit of food and live worry free. I'll sleep when i want, eat when I want, get intoxicated when I want, travel when I want, answer to no one.

The day is coming up fast and I am ready.

Wait...that sounds better than trying to arbitrage mortgaged money. However, anec dotally, i know a few tightly wound guys who died soon after retiring. Like tension was holding them together.

Submitted by svelte on September 5, 2020 - 2:08pm.

scaredyclassic wrote:
However, anec dotally, i know a few tightly wound guys who died soon after retiring. Like tension was holding them together.

Or they worked until they couldn't work anymore so they quit their job in their final days.

There are a couple of guys at work, my age, who are doing that right now. They got hit with a bad health condition all of the sudden and tried to keep working to beat the problem, but eventually gave up because it was affecting their work noticeably. Their few retirement days will now be spent in rapid decline. So sad.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 5, 2020 - 2:21pm.

svelte wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:
However, anec dotally, i know a few tightly wound guys who died soon after retiring. Like tension was holding them together.

Or they worked until they couldn't work anymore so they quit their job in their final days.

There are a couple of guys at work, my age, who are doing that right now. They got hit with a bad health condition all of the sudden and tried to keep working to beat the problem, but eventually gave up because it was affecting their work noticeably. Their few retirement days will now be spent in rapid decline. So sad.

Ahhh. I see

Submitted by svelte on September 6, 2020 - 1:10am.

sdrealtor wrote:

I want it paid off. This will help me do it faster.

I'm with you brother. I'm too close to payoff to refi.

Submitted by svelte on September 6, 2020 - 7:38am.

.

Submitted by ltsddd on September 6, 2020 - 10:33am.

svelte wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:
However, anec dotally, i know a few tightly wound guys who died soon after retiring. Like tension was holding them together.

Or they worked until they couldn't work anymore so they quit their job in their final days.

There are a couple of guys at work, my age, who are doing that right now. They got hit with a bad health condition all of the sudden and tried to keep working to beat the problem, but eventually gave up because it was affecting their work noticeably. Their few retirement days will now be spent in rapid decline. So sad.

I have seen quite a few folks like that at work. Some didn't quite make it to the finish line. Some did and kicked the bucket soon after. It's sad to see, for whatever reasons, people linger around way past what I think is necessary. I don't know, may be they stick around b/c of the $$$ or they are just dedicated to the job. I plan to walk away even before I am old enough to collect SS. If I could do that I think I kind of 'beat' the system.

Submitted by sdrealtor on September 6, 2020 - 12:43pm.

ltsddd wrote:
svelte wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:
However, anec dotally, i know a few tightly wound guys who died soon after retiring. Like tension was holding them together.

Or they worked until they couldn't work anymore so they quit their job in their final days.

There are a couple of guys at work, my age, who are doing that right now. They got hit with a bad health condition all of the sudden and tried to keep working to beat the problem, but eventually gave up because it was affecting their work noticeably. Their few retirement days will now be spent in rapid decline. So sad.

I have seen quite a few folks like that at work. Some didn't quite make it to the finish line. Some did and kicked the bucket soon after. It's sad to see, for whatever reasons, people linger around way past what I think is necessary. I don't know, may be they stick around b/c of the $$$ or they are just dedicated to the job. I plan to walk away even before I am old enough to collect SS. If I could do that I think I kind of 'beat' the system.

My father was a self employed manufacturers rep. He worked past 65 to delay collecting SS as part of his financial planning. Never sick a day that I can remember he finally retired, was diagnosed with cancer 6 months later and gone 3 months after that. I wont retire either but my work allows me to work at whatever pace I choose and I can do the things I want including travel almost anytime. Its why I selected this work 20 years ago so i could work and live on my own terms.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 6, 2020 - 4:38pm.

What about diversification? If your house is a giant chunk of net worth, its not unreasonable to spread allocation around. Wouldnt it be foolish to have a high value paid off house as ones sole asset when you can diversify at 2.5%?

Submitted by flyer on September 6, 2020 - 6:19pm.

Have heard of similar situations from friends and acquaintances.

Agree that setting yourself up to live life on your own terms as early as possible is a smart move. That's why our family got into real estate years ago as well, and, like so many on this board, we've been very grateful for the financial freedom we've enjoyed for many years.

Realizing and accepting you'll never beat mortality is definitely a game changer.

Submitted by sdrealtor on September 7, 2020 - 9:09am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
What about diversification? If your house is a giant chunk of net worth, its not unreasonable to spread allocation around. Wouldnt it be foolish to have a high value paid off house as ones sole asset when you can diversify at 2.5%?

At least for me not close to sole asset. But for me home is the base of the pyramid. It is stability and security. It's comfortable, fun and pleasurable. It delivers returns that can't always be quantified in dollar amounts. Having it paid off makes everything easier. It allows one to take other risks or no risks at all. It is home

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 7, 2020 - 9:40am.

Its funny how a small injury on wed. Has me feeling much more conservative.

I hurt my foot.

Felt broken, but it wasnt.

Hobbled around. Took it easy. Feel better today.

Still, i can imagine sudden turnarounds.

Its hard to make $ in pain. Not everything must be leveraged or make $.

Maybe its best to just sit in a paid off house and let the equity be

Submitted by svelte on September 7, 2020 - 3:38pm.

scaredyclassic wrote:

Its hard to make $ in pain. Not everything must be leveraged or make $.

Maybe its best to just sit in a paid off house and let the equity be

I have factored this into my decisions also. My next trip to the doctor he could tell me that thing I thought was minor is instead terminal. Or disabling and I can't work any more.

If either of those things happen our income and therefore spend rate will go way down. We'll survive, but we'd have to tighten our belts a bit.

I'd rather be debt free and not have to worry about money...just focus on the health problem and getting better.

It is funny how much my line of thinking has changed in the last five years.

Another thing I discovered: old folks don't get crotchety because they are envious of younger folks (as I thought when i was young and stupid)...they get crotchety because they get tired of watching each generation make the same stupid mistakes. So many of the problems in this world are self-inflicted. That gets tiring to watch after awhile.

It reminds me of one of my favorite T-shirts in my closet: Bold letters: HISTORY Small letters: Don't make me repeat myself

Submitted by sdrealtor on September 7, 2020 - 4:01pm.

scaredyclassic wrote:
Its funny how a small injury on wed. Has me feeling much more conservative.

I hurt my foot.

Felt broken, but it wasnt.

Hobbled around. Took it easy. Feel better today.

Still, i can imagine sudden turnarounds.

Its hard to make $ in pain. Not everything must be leveraged or make $.

Maybe its best to just sit in a paid off house and let the equity be

Over time values increase. Over time rents increase. Sitting in a paid off house is not just letting equity be

Submitted by scaredyclassic on September 7, 2020 - 4:46pm.

sdrealtor wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:
Its funny how a small injury on wed. Has me feeling much more conservative.

I hurt my foot.

Felt broken, but it wasnt.

Hobbled around. Took it easy. Feel better today.

Still, i can imagine sudden turnarounds.

Its hard to make $ in pain. Not everything must be leveraged or make $.

Maybe its best to just sit in a paid off house and let the equity be

Over time values increase. Over time rents increase. Sitting in a paid off house is not just letting equity be

But youd get the value of the increase too, in addition to investing some of it mortgaged.

Submitted by Escoguy on September 8, 2020 - 9:25pm.

SD
Mind sharing who you used? Do they offer the same rate for a detached condo?
thanks

Submitted by sdrealtor on September 10, 2020 - 11:04am.

PM sent

Submitted by sdrealtor on September 10, 2020 - 11:04am.

PM sent

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.