OT: poll-- Is there a god and if so, is there some religion you believe he prefers you practice?

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 18, 2012 - 11:53pm
No, I'm a hardcore atheist.
36% (18 votes)
Agnostic
22% (11 votes)
Southern Baptist
0% (0 votes)
Catholic
10% (5 votes)
Jewish: reform Judaism
2% (1 vote)
Buddhist
6% (3 votes)
Muslim
2% (1 vote)
Amish
0% (0 votes)
Norse gods
0% (0 votes)
Wiccan
0% (0 votes)
Hasidic jew
0% (0 votes)
Scientology
0% (0 votes)
Mormon
0% (0 votes)
Jainist
0% (0 votes)
Greek orthodox
0% (0 votes)
Greek Gods
0% (0 votes)
Jewish; conservative Judaism.
0% (0 votes)
Christian scientist
0% (0 votes)
Other religion; misc.; non-Jesus based.
4% (2 votes)
I reject the atheist / theist divide and refuse to select.
4% (2 votes)
Henningite
0% (0 votes)
Church of the big lebowski.
2% (1 vote)
Chinese folk religion
0% (0 votes)
Chinese folk religion as practiced in Taiwan
0% (0 votes)
Worship mammon
0% (0 votes)
The free market.
2% (1 vote)
i worship other misc false idols.
0% (0 votes)
other misc: Jesus-based religion.
10% (5 votes)
secular environmentalism
0% (0 votes)
Bokonist
0% (0 votes)
UU...
0% (0 votes)
Peyote church
0% (0 votes)
Total votes: 50
Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 18, 2012 - 11:55pm.

Thesis; piggs are slightly more skeptical therefore slightly less likely to be religious.

Submitted by NotCranky on February 19, 2012 - 12:37am.
Submitted by zk on February 19, 2012 - 8:42am.

Faith (belief in something not supported by evidence) is, by definition, irrational.

Submitted by pencilneck on February 19, 2012 - 9:19am.

Can we add Henningite to the poll? The followers of mystical advisor Doug Henning should certainly be represented here.

"For Doug Henning, real magic, was the unfolding of human consciousness and the unbounded potential that rests in all people to discover."

In 1980, Season 4, Episode 21, Henning appeared to his followers and gathered his first disciple.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBHJCT2UyAU

Submitted by svelte on February 19, 2012 - 9:48am.

Wow, amazing this thread popped up. One of my grown kids started a family email trail Friday talking about religion, how it affects people, and interactions he has witnessed.

We never really talk about religion in our household. It was the first time I found out we are all agnostic atheists. :-)

Submitted by CDMA ENG on February 19, 2012 - 10:09am.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnsLzHYRtts

Its terrible quality but still funny...

CE

Submitted by briansd1 on February 19, 2012 - 11:03am.

zk wrote:
Faith (belief in something not supported by evidence) is, by definition, irrational.

That's exactly how I see.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 11:19am.

penn jillette's atheists guide to the 2012 election.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJGxVeQw3SE

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 11:25am.

we were discussing the existence of God and religion around the old kitchen table and i stated that i am 100% certainlife exists on other planets somewhere. my wife said that is an atheist position. one kid seemed pretty confident life was out there, the other seemed to think that if life could spontaneously occur, then it probably does exist elsewhere, but was not willing to commit.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 11:28am.

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 11:36am.

there's gotta be some believers out there in piggingtonia!

Submitted by briansd1 on February 19, 2012 - 11:45am.

I answered atheist... but if there's a God, it's the universe.

Submitted by Jazzman on February 19, 2012 - 11:45am.

Arguments for and agin beautifully laid bear in the Confession, with Keifer Sutherland and John Hurt engaged in a 'confession box' dialogue. Choice and belief come head to head exposing the hypocrisy inherent in the human condition. Highly recommended.

DMT: The Spirit Molecule is also an interesting documentary that throws out the age old question of whether reality is just controlled dreaming, and whether DMT mysteriously present in all plant and animal life is responsible for heightened experiences we associate with religion.

Submitted by NotCranky on February 19, 2012 - 11:57am.

briansd1 wrote:
zk wrote:
Faith (belief in something not supported by evidence) is, by definition, irrational.

That's exactly how I see.

Human beings are so extremely creative and have such large language capacity that we can infringe upon instinct, and the path to power, with artificial systems of personal and social norms, which often become religions or contain religious like adherence with grand explanations, rituals and icons.

It breaks down at some point because it is all fake,theocracy is theatrical ,and as walterwhite points out, in its fakeness, these created systems lack mutuality. If history repeats itself, what will remain of all these religions one day will be a nice collection of artifacts for some museum.

Submitted by zippythepinhead on February 19, 2012 - 12:08pm.

Pascal would disagree, " faith certainly tells us what the senses do not, but not the contrary of what they see; it is above, not against them. And Aquinas, " The truth that the human reason is naturally endowed to know cannot be opposed to the truth of the Christian faith". Still others, "faith without reason withers to superstition, and reason without faith obscures the fullness of truth."

Submitted by briansd1 on February 19, 2012 - 12:24pm.

If I had to choose among all the major religions, it would be buddhism. It's not hardcore like the other religious.

Buddhism is more about being philosophical and taking taking things in stride.

Submitted by UCGal on February 19, 2012 - 12:37pm.

Just curious... is Southern Baptist the only protestant selection? There are lots of flavors of Protestant t that are quite different from Southern Baptist. FWIW, I was sent to a So. Baptist Sunday school growing up and it doesn't resemble the Presbytarian services I attended for a while as an adult.

You also skipped Unitarians (one God in everything, vs the trilogy of Christianity)

Submitted by NotCranky on February 19, 2012 - 12:39pm.

zippythepinhead wrote:
Pascal would disagree, " faith certainly tells us what the senses do not, but not the contrary of what they see; it is above, not against them. And Aquinas, " The truth that the human reason is naturally endowed to know cannot be opposed to the truth of the Christian faith". Still others, "faith without reason withers to superstition, and reason without faith obscures the fullness of truth."

It does seem like there is an inherent sense of the possibility of Truth. However, Obscurity is at least as close to Truth as any collection of invented articles of faith. I believe in obscurity and from there, if there is a God, God is Love. Therefore the label that best fits me,somewhat painfully, is agnostic.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 12:42pm.

Other Protestants are under other misc Jesus based religions

Submitted by NotCranky on February 19, 2012 - 12:50pm.

Got Bokonism?

From Wiki
Bokononism is based on the concept of foma, which are defined as harmless untruths. A foundation of Bokononism is that the religion, including its texts, is formed entirely of lies; however, one who believes and adheres to these lies will have peace of mind, and perhaps live a good life. The primary tenet of Bokononism is to "Live by the foma that make you brave and kind and healthy and happy."

Submitted by Arraya on February 19, 2012 - 1:25pm.

I believe in our holy father the "Market" and his only son the invisible hand. The mystical power of money. Just like everybody else on the board.

All that old stuff is just mental masturbation at this point. The main driver of our patterns of behavior and hence culture is "economic".

Submitted by pokepud3 on February 19, 2012 - 2:36pm.

Seems like I'm the only muslim on here. I'm a daily reader, and love watching the market, and what you guys have to say. There's nothing wrong or conflicting with believing in being a market skeptic or believing in life outside of earth. Don't see how believing in this would make you an atheist :|

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 3:02pm.

Believing in alien life kinda makes earth not the center of the cosmic action as described in lots of religious literature.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 3:23pm.

Avoid politics and religion in polite conversation.

But query; most religions posit some events that seem a little insane; virgin births, gold tablets From God found by a con man in northern ny in the 1820's, etc. Do religious piggs really really believe in suspension of natural laws or are you just kind of saying you do because the tradition is nice and you think it'll help raise moral kids?

Submitted by Arraya on February 19, 2012 - 4:01pm.

walterwhite wrote:
Do religious piggs really really believe in suspension of natural laws or are you just kind of saying you do because the tradition is nice and you think it'll help raise moral kids?

Perpetual material economic growth on a finite planet is a suspension of natural law. Capital has cognition of thermodynamics.

Our economics, market based economics IS a faith based, quasi-religious- pseudo-science.

The economist has no clothes
http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...
* The market system is a closed circular flow between production and consumption, with no inlets or outlets.
* Natural resources exist in a domain that is separate and distinct from a closed market system, and the economic value of these resources can be determined only by the dynamics that operate within this system.
* The costs of damage to the external natural environment by economic activities must be treated as costs that lie outside the closed market system or as costs that cannot be included in the pricing mechanisms that operate within the system.
* The external resources of nature are largely inexhaustible, and those that are not can be replaced by other resources or by technologies that minimize the use of the exhaustible resources or that rely on other resources.
* There are no biophysical limits to the growth of market systems.

http://www.hubbertpeak.com/hubbert/monet...
"Two Intellectual Systems: Matter-energy and the Monetary Culture"

Submitted by flyer on February 19, 2012 - 5:04pm.

Interesting poll. Amazing how many different variations on a theme exist in the world with regard to spiritual beliefs.

Perhaps one thing we can all agree upon is that this life is completely temporary, and is really very short--80+ years, if you're lucky--and, statistically, we know that many are not.

Even if you lived to be 100 (and were functioning at 100%), that would still be a mere drop in the bucket on the scale of eternity--so, I believe we should enjoy every moment of this life, because no one really knows how much time they have left. That's one reason I retired early.

Submitted by urbanrealtor on February 19, 2012 - 5:26pm.

Yog-Sothoth

Cthulhu is his priest.

In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 5:26pm.

Every now and them I ask my kids why we are on earth. The best answer I've gotten:

"to be awesome and to love our kittens".

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 5:33pm.

I think I could embrace the idea of indifferent or malicious gods, who war in the heavens and don't really give a crap about us, but the idea of some being caring about me personally seems wildly improbable on comparison. I think I'd pick Norse gods of forced to choose.

Submitted by pokepud3 on February 19, 2012 - 6:08pm.

I can't speak for other religions, but there's nothing in Islam that says "There is no life outside of earth, and thus you shouldn't research into it and bash anyone who believes it may exist."

We also believe that miracles are all scientifically possible achievements that god gave the know-how on how to do them directly to his messengers or prophets as we call them. In Islam there is a strong logic-faith correlation that exists, and thus allows us to strengthen out beliefs, rather then just following blind faith all the time.

Now if only I could find some know how on how to achieve those 10 percent return properties some of these REIT's are finding that would be nice.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 6:11pm.

Aren't there Islamic restrictions on lending?

I thought I heard about certain loans being not kosher.

Submitted by svelte on February 19, 2012 - 6:16pm.

walterwhite wrote:
"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
-- H. L. Mencken

Oh, that is just golden!!

Submitted by briansd1 on February 19, 2012 - 6:20pm.

I used to love Greek mythology as a teenager.

Although my family is catholic we never believed. We never said grace at the table. For us it was more tradition than religion. We think that the church was evil in many ways. I do have fervent cousins.

In public school I'd be like Jessica Ahlquist. Glad she got $40k scholarship.

Submitted by pokepud3 on February 19, 2012 - 6:44pm.

I'm part of the shiite (shia) branch of Islam, and there is some limitations on lending from muslim to muslim, and from muslim to christian.

This is a tricky subject as it depends on sect to sect, and there are a few systems to make market growth possible.

Sunni Muslims believe all forms of lending and borrowing with interest is forbidden. (As far as I know, I may be wrong here.)

Shia's believe that we can borrow from non-muslims although it's not recommended as interest is a form of wage slavery as we so believe.

So yes as a shia I can get mortgages from a bank, but no I cannot loan my money out with interest.

What we are allows to do though is charge a service charge for the money we loan out. We run on a system of trust, and so far it's working. This is also how the banking sector in most islamic countries work out. The service charge must be set at a fixed price, and must be made clear to the receiver of the loan.

It's a tricky subject, and generally I always recommend people to do their own research. Again I'm a shia muslim, so I follow the rules set by my own sect of Islam.

Quite frankly the reason we are against interest, is that it makes a select few rich, while depriving the rest of society of their share of money to work towards (no, we do not believe everyone has a right to equal pay). Which in other words leaves only the privileged few with massive amounts of money, and the rest of humanity as their wage slaves.

Submitted by TemekuT on February 19, 2012 - 7:18pm.

I'd put the "misc Jesus based" option farther up on the list and call it "Born Again Christian Fundamentalism" as that is certainly a majority religion in Southern California. Costa Mesa's Calvary Chapel was the birthplace of the born again phenomenon in the early 70's. And So. Cal. is home to many mega churches.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 7:26pm.

No. It stays misc. And low down the list. See how it feels to be marginalized?

Does it feel nice to be called "misc."?

Submitted by ocrenter on February 19, 2012 - 7:28pm.

religion is created by man. it is created as a psychiatric tool to help the mind. especially during a time when there was no other resources to help the mind cope with grief, tragedy, and simply stress.

all religions employ some type of behavior that would in effect be meditative. meditation, chanting, deep prayer, and a lot of religious rites all do the same for the mind, it help cultivate the mind's ability to handle stress and help with general happiness.

therefore in most surveys, religious folks tend to be happier. they just have no idea they are happier because the act of being religious is helpful, so they mistakenly think their choice of deity is actually real. which could and have certainly caused a lot of problems in human history.

Submitted by ocrenter on February 19, 2012 - 7:32pm.

walterwhite wrote:
we were discussing the existence of God and religion around the old kitchen table and i stated that i am 100% certainlife exists on other planets somewhere. my wife said that is an atheist position. one kid seemed pretty confident life was out there, the other seemed to think that if life could spontaneously occur, then it probably does exist elsewhere, but was not willing to commit.

that's not an atheist viewpoint. Buddhist thought has always been that their are many different worlds outside of our world. I guess you can say the Buddha was the first religious leader to proclaim the existence of aliens.

Submitted by zk on February 19, 2012 - 7:41pm.

walterwhite wrote:
No. It stays misc. And low down the list. See how it feels to be marginalized?

Does it feel nice to be called "misc."?

Reminds me of a scene from The Simpsons:

Ned: Homer, God didn't set your house on fire.

Reverend Lovejoy: No, but He was working in the hearts of your friends and neighbors when they came to your aid, be they Christian (points at Ned), Jew (points at Krusty), or ... miscellaneous (points at Apu).

Apu: (offended) Hindu! There are 700 million of us, you know.

Reverend Lovejoy: Aw, that's super.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 7:42pm.

So far the piggingtons seem to have a pretty eclectic set of religious beliefs.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 7:54pm.

transcript from penn jillette's interview...

enn Jillette: Everybody seems to think that Obama is in his heart an atheist and in his heart a skeptic. The church he belonged to in Chicago is a whack-job church. It’s about equal to Palin’s church. Granted, he hasn’t been as religious as… do we know off the top of our heads the most religious president in history in terms of references… referencing to god… references to god and in terms of appearing in churches? Who the most religious president in history was? It’s an interesting answer and I got this information from NPR, so it’s probably not slanted in the way you think. The most religious president in history in terms of appearances in churches and mentions of the bible was Clinton.

Bill Clinton is the most religious president we’ve had. He beats George Bush hands down and he beats Carter, who we know was a born-again Christian. He beats him hands down. So Obama does that too. I mean at the 9/11 thing, maybe appropriately he read from the Bible. But you have two choices with Obama. You either believe that he is a man of Christ who prays for decisions in the White House, which he said he was or you think he’s a liar. And I’m surprised by the number of atheist free thinkers that support Obama and their argument is essentially, he’s lying about being religious ‘cause you have to do that to be elected.

I’m not happy with either one of those. I mean, Obama is wicked smart, he’s a wicked good talker, there is no doubt in my mind that his heart is in the right place, unfortunately I think that about almost every president we’ve had, but I think he wants to do good. I don’t think there’s any malicious quality to him at all. But I think in some sense, he’s a believer or he’s a liar. So one to 10? I rate him pretty high on the skepticism, maybe a six or a seven, but I rate him that way because somewhere in my heart I think he might be lying about being religious and that’s horrible. It’s a horrible reason to like somebody. I like him because he might be a liar. Horrible.

Question: Michele Bachmann.

Penn Jillette: Michele Bachman’s blasphemy is greater than anything I’ve ever accomplished. I have tried with friends to say the most blasphemous sentence I can possibly say and it does not come close to the blasphemy of Michelle Bachman saying that earthquakes and hurricanes were the way God was trying to get the attention of politicians. I cannot imagine a serious religious person reading that quote or hearing that quote and saying, “Yeah, right on.” It is solipsistic, it is opportunistic, it is cynical. It is deep and it is wrong and it is an insult to religious people everywhere.

For an atheist, it’s a burlesque; it’s a little bit of a joke you can dismiss her. But I can’t see it as an atheist. I see it through my father’s eyes, you know, my father was a Christian his whole life. And if he had heard Michelle Bachman say that, he would have looked away from the TV. The idea that you would lightly state that people were suffering and dying in order to, to prove that God was on the side of one politician is sickening. The only reason that Bachman and Rick Perry are able to say this stuff is because of a magic word. And this magic word is, “Christian.” And if you look back in history, the word “Christian” doesn’t really appear in the way we use it today until the anti-abortion debate in the ‘60’s. When you had 1890, end of the 19th century, you’re top three highest paid speakers; the highest paid speakers were atheists speaking about atheism. It was Ingersoll, Robert Ingersoll, number one, Mark Twain, number two, Huxley, number three. Ingersoll was the, the great infidel, the great skeptic, the atheist, Mark Twain of course. And these were people speaking on… he was not reading from Huck Finn, he was reading from Letters from Earth, he was reading atheist stuff. And Huxley, of course, Darwin’s pit bull, I guess bull dog at that time, I think he was a pit bull.

There was a real sense of atheism being an important point. They were invited to the White House. And the reason was that Catholics were terrified of Baptists who were terrified of Pentecostals who were terrified of Lutherans who were terrified of Evangelicals, the whole list. There wasn’t a feeling of Christian. The founding fathers were very afraid of Baptists taking over from the Pentecostals. Everybody was afraid of the Catholics. So you had this divided thing.

If we still had that, if we still were dividing people by sects like we should be… sects like we should be, one of the largest groups in this country would be atheists. By the USA Today poll, I think it was 22 percent, 20 percent. Even the lowest polls put it as eight. Okay? The next highest would be Catholics. And they’d be knocking around 20, you know. Then you’ve got all your divided up categories. And then abortion happens, legalized abortion, and some very smart people, very forward thinking people decided we can never fight abortion if it’s the Catholics fighting the Protestants who are fighting the Baptists, fighting the Pentecostals, fight the… we have to get them under one tent. And there’s a great book on this called The History of Free Thought, these are not my ideas. This is my understanding of the ideas in that book.

They pulled this tent together and they kind of create the word, “Christian.” And then Carter with born-again Christian really helps with the word, “Christian.” So what they’ve really done is they’ve taken very different philosophies, I mean Catholicism and Protestantism are very different philosophies, very different. You know, and they’ve pulled it together to make this term, “Christian.” Which are people that don’t agree at all and they say I’m doing a Christian message.

So Michelle Bachman and Rick Perry just 40 years ago, really recently, would have been terrified to speak about their God and their church because the second they said they were Baptist, the second they said they were Pentecostal, the second they said they were Lutheran, all the other people fall away. But now they’ve got this magic word, “Christian.” And I am helping make it worse. Because by using the word, “Atheist,” I am separating that even more from “Christian,” I’m doing a broadening umbrella and I’m making theist, atheist. And if you do theist, atheist, the theist’s win completely.

You know, what I should be doing, if I were a political thinker, if I were someone who was interested in movements, which I’m not, I’m against them. If I wasn’t for individual thinking, I would be one of those people who was saying, using a term like “free thinker,” or “open-minded.” And I would be gathering this umbrella that included people who self-identifies agnostic, atheist, against organized religion. I would get the Wiccans in there. I would get as many people as possible and I could probably pump that up to 25 percent. And then I would be also saying, “Well, you know, the Muslims are very different from the Jews, who are very different from the Catholics, who are very different from all of that.”

But what’s gonna happen, and because I’m not interested in tactical play, but rather than telling the truth. We are going to get theist to atheist. But you can’t imagine, we can’t imagine in 1965, a Baptist talking… Baptist politician talking about religion and where they go to church if they have to use the word, “Baptist.” It’s using the word “Christian” that allows this craziness to happen. Also because I am an optimist, to the point of being incorrect, to the point of not being realistic, that’s what flushes over me, that’s what I feel in my heart is optimism. I tend to go with something Christopher Hitchens said, and I don’t remember where he said it, it could have even been in personal conversation, I don’t know. But Hitchens said that what we’re seeing with this incredible crazy religious stuff is the death throws. I mean, since 9/11, free thinking atheism is growing so quickly because of the internet and people who are seeing it first with those who are called, and I realize this is a racist term, but it’s the easiest one to use, so please forgive me, Gypsies. We’re seeing it with the Amish; we’re seeing it with the Hasidics. All the groups that try to stay as a subset of America and keep their own traditions are going away. And Elvis chipped away at them and malls chipped away at them, but the internet is going to take them down.

It is just too hard to keep your children cloistered. They’re going to hear Katy Perry. There’s just no way to stop it. They’re gonna see video like this, you know. Once you’ve gotten on the internet to see Katie Perry, it’s not hard to fall over to the Big Think. It’s the same keyboard, it’s the same screen. It’s the same everything. And those… that information gets out there. And I think that everybody knows that and everybody feels that, so then those who are religious, you’re seeing a desperate, terrified, clawing. And that’s the only way you can explain Michelle Bachman and Rick Perry is the combination of desperation coupled with the magic protective word of “Christian.”

And I think… I think that’s what we’re seeing. And whether they can pull together, you know, the problem is a movement of individuals is not going to have the muscle of a cohesive movement of people who believe they’re right. And I’m not willing to lie to fight them. I want individuals who disagree on everything. And I want us to learn to band together for freedom. Band together in order to be different. And that’s a much harder thing to sell, but it’s all that matters, so we have to do it.

You know, I… I stick up for Mormons. I mean, Mitt Romney is wearing crazy underwear. He’s wearing magic underwear. He is. I mean, under his pants, he is wearing magic underwear. Magic underwear. And he believes that a convicted con man got golden tablets that no one else could see, and sat with an angel to find out that the original Jews of the Bible were living in North America. Crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy. But… just more modern, not more crazy, than other religions. Not more crazy than Islam, you know, with your… not more crazy than virgin births and resurrections. Not more crazy than any of that stuff. What’s really fascinating to me, fascinating, is that… and I cover this in my book when I say signs you may already be an atheist, it fascinates me that you can have the Bible Belt and you can have a court trial, and we’ve seen this. I’m going to use it hypothetically, but you’ll know the specifics I’m talking about, I just don’t want to talk about that kind of pain too directly, it’s too unpleasant for me. But hypothetically, in the Bible Belt, where you can have a born-again Christian Judge, born-again Christian Judge. I believe the Bible is the literal word of God, there were talking snakes, there were talking snakes and virgin births. Burning bushes and Abraham being willing to kill his son for God. He believes that.

The jury is made up of 12 people who, let’s say 10 of them believe that. And two of them believe that, but a little less. You’re Prosecuting Attorney believes that. The people that are sitting in the courtroom believe that. These are all people that know each other in church. And the person on the witness stand says that she killed her three children in cold blood because God told her to. And every single person in the courtroom decides whether she is guilty or not guilty by reason of insanity. Those are the two choices they weigh. And nobody, not the Defense Attorney, not the Judge, not the jury people, not the people in the gallery, not one person stands up and goes, maybe God told her to. It’s less weird than the talking snake. Maybe God told her to.

And in this country, which they say over and over again is founded on Christian values, and I’ll give them that; founded on Christian values. Okay, it is, fine. This country, founded on Christian values has guilty, not guilty, not guilty by reason of insanity, end of list. There is nothing that says, not guilty because God told me to. And why? Why isn’t that there? Why isn’t this country allowing in the court system someone to go on the witness stand and go, “Snake walked up to me, snaked opened his mouth, snake said, ‘go into McDonald’s, pull out an AK15, kill 10 people, walk back out,’ snake told me that. It’s that snake there, he’s not talking anymore. I throw myself on the mercy of the court. Aren’t you all good Christians? Don’t you believe in the miracles of the Bible? You’re seeing one now.”

And that’s the part that amazes me is that kind of stuff. So Mitt Romney comes along and at some level doesn’t he know what he believes is crazy? At some level, isn’t he going, “There weren’t Jews in North America.” You know, that’s not where the Garden of Eden was. Doesn’t that go through his mind? And that’s the part of that whole thing that kills me. If Mitt Romney really believes what he says he believes, he is bug-nutty, bat shit crazy. And he’s not, bug-nutty, bat shit crazy. He’s the same as Obama. If Obama believes what he was being taught in that church in Chicago, okay, he is bat shit crazy. And Obama is demonstratively not bat shit crazy.

So we have this weird deal we make with all the politicians where we say, you can say you believe bug nutty, bat shit crazy shit, and we’ll shrug it off because you’re clearly not bug nutty, bat shit crazy. And all I want out of our politicians is for them to just say, “You know, a lot of the religious stuff I’m talking about is bug nutty, bat shit crazy, but I’m not.” Because I don’t think any of these men and women are crazy. And I’ll even give you Michelle Bachman, I’ll even give you Rick Perry, I’ll even give you Sarah Palin. I don’t have that cynical MSNBC point of view that they are bug nutty, bat shit crazy. I think they are good people who somehow think that they’re morality and their love for humanity and their love for their families are tied up in this weird tradition. And when they think that the Bible is the word of God, I think they mean something else. I sometimes think that many other people are speaking in a code that I’ve not been given the key to.

When someone says to me, I believe in the Bible literally. Well, I personally, Penn Jillette, read about a chapter in the Bible a day. I just read through it, over and over again. So when someone says, they believe in the word of God literally, I go back and think about Genesis, where people were living to be 900 years old. And I say bullshit! And then I think about Noah and the flood, killing everybody? God that loves us kills everybody? And he wants to get two of every species and seven of the ones that are clean onto a boat that floats for that amount of time? And I just go, really? Because you don’t act that way. You’re able to go to Home Depot, you’re able to pay with a credit card, you’re able to go to Starbucks, you know how to use a computer. Really? Do you really mean that? What do you mean literally? Do you really mean that you’re going to stone someone to death who because they work on the Sabbath, are you really gonna do that? Really, honestly? You’re gonna take a rock in your hand and throw at the mother-fucker’s head because he worked on a Sunday to support his family? Are you really gonna do that? If you mix cotton and linen in your clothing are you really going to go to hell? What do you mean when you say that?

And no one’s ever answered me. There’s a code going on that I need the Rosetta Stone. I need someone to sit me down and go, Penn, when Obama says he went to that church and they talked about all this stuff being literal, what he really meant was… fill in the blank! Tell me! What does he really mean? These people are good, honest, smart, not bat shit crazy people, so why the fuck are they saying bat shit crazy stuff to me?

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 7:57pm.

whats the word for someone prejudiced againsta certain religion?

ratheist?

Submitted by NotCranky on February 19, 2012 - 8:39pm.

Bokonism doesn't go under miscellaneous, dammit.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 9:00pm.

Ok bokonist is a category, although can't anyone be a bokonist -plus another religion?

Submitted by TemekuT on February 19, 2012 - 9:14pm.

walterwhite wrote:
No. It stays misc. And low down the list. See how it feels to be marginalized?

Does it feel nice to be called "misc."?

No worries, you're not marginalizing me. I'm just pointing out the sheer numbers of Bible fundamentalists here in So Cal. Surely they're a majority.

Submitted by TemekuT on February 19, 2012 - 9:13pm.

walterwhite wrote:
transcript from penn jillette's interview...

Penn Jillette: Michele Bachman’s blasphemy is greater than anything I’ve ever accomplished. I have tried with friends to say the most blasphemous sentence I can possibly say and it does not come close to the blasphemy of Michelle Bachman saying that earthquakes and hurricanes were the way God was trying to get the attention of politicians. I cannot imagine a serious religious person reading that quote or hearing that quote and saying, “Yeah, right on.” It is solipsistic, it is opportunistic, it is cynical. It is deep and it is wrong and it is an insult to religious people everywhere.

A relative told me yesterday that the reason her daughter has cancer is because God has something to teach the family and is trying to get their attention.

Submitted by svelte on February 19, 2012 - 9:26pm.

zk wrote:

Reminds me of a scene from The Simpsons:

...

Speaking of the Simpsons, one of my favorite lines from that show:

Maude Flanders to Marge: "Well, I'm off to Bible Camp to learn to be more judgmental!"

Submitted by NotCranky on February 19, 2012 - 9:34pm.

walterwhite wrote:
Ok bokonist is a category, although can't anyone be a bokonist -plus another religion?

I am not so sure, I really feel that Bokonism, if one can embrace it at all, is probably a "bridge" to atheism or agnosticism. I think that's the idea. It's satire. Sorry, I forgot about that.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on February 19, 2012 - 11:13pm.

Voted 44th funniest joke of all time in "The 75 Funniest Jokes of All Time" in GQ magazine (June 1999)

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!"
He said, "Nobody loves me."
I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes."
I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"
He said, "A Christian."
I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me, too! What franchise?"
He said, "Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."
I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912."
I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

Submitted by CA renter on February 20, 2012 - 2:00am.

pokepud3 wrote:
Seems like I'm the only muslim on here. I'm a daily reader, and love watching the market, and what you guys have to say. There's nothing wrong or conflicting with believing in being a market skeptic or believing in life outside of earth. Don't see how believing in this would make you an atheist :|

Agreed.

.............

BTW, what is "God," if not an "alien" from "somewhere else"? Don't all people who belive in a spiritual being "somewhere out there" belive in aliens -- at least one? I know they don't call God an "alien" in church, but isn't that really what they're saying? If he created Earth, he didn't come from here, so he must come from somewhere else, right?