Irony: Trump the liberal

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Submitted by EconProf on June 1, 2018 - 8:09am

In terms of accomplishing liberals' goals, Trump should be applauded. On many fronts--not all--he is succeeding. A booming economy, record low unemployment, wages picking up steam, state tax revenues exceeding all predictions. These are priorities liberals say they want. Perhaps that's why his popularity is climbing.
Overseas he is bringing North Koreas to the negotiating table, convinced NATO "allies" to up their defense budget, and stood up to Syria and ISIS.
Is all this why the Blue Wave in the upcoming midterm election is looking more like a ripple?

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 3, 2018 - 9:05am.

Econprof, does that mean you are leaving?
Say what you mean and mean what you say.

Btw, AZ, NV, and TX are only a decade or two behind CA, but the latter 2 have no income taxes, Something to consider.

Edit:
I was a great student, and I remember well what my Econ Prof taught me. Mobility of labor means efficiency and wealth creation.
If you look the bright tech sector of the economy, the great majority of workers come from elsewhere outside of California. That's very good. It means that we are attracting talent that can thrive in our economy. We want the turnover of people coming and going. It's like refreshing the population.

Submitted by zk on June 3, 2018 - 1:50pm.

EconProf wrote:

Whatever you may think of Trump personally, he is accomplishing objectives that liberals claimed to want. The irony is delicious.

Aw, EconProf, you poor little guy. This is all you have left to cling to, isn't it? A made-up narrative supported only by the standard half-truths, misinterpreted statistics, wishful thinking and distraction sold by right-wing spinners.

In truth, Trump is "accomplishing" next to nothing. Unless you count reducing our standing in the world, weakening the rule of law in our country, freeing racists and misogynists and islamophobes to speak up, giving rich people a tax cut that our children and grandchildren will pay for, and probably starting a trade war.

But good for you! You've found your happy place where none of that is real, trump is great for liberals, and America is great "again." Did they give you a lollipop and a pat on the head, too?

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 3, 2018 - 12:00pm.

I don't know much about farming, but it seems like food prices are dropping because China is buying less or has threatened to. The markets responded accordingly. I embrace lower food prices. Good for my budget, so thank you, Trump!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/...

Submitted by spdrun on June 3, 2018 - 5:18pm.

EconProf: assuming a moderately well-run "Medicare for all" system, the question isn't whether taxes would increase. The question is whether the average tax increase will be less or greater than the average person or company currently pays (per employee or person) for health care. Being able to pawn "benefits" off onto the government (i.e. "buy in" to Medicare for their employees for a known % of their income) and not have to deal with the shitshow known as benefits management would actually make life easier for a lot of employers.

I don't presently live in CA, but if it gets passed, I'll be on a plane the next day. Not having to worry about private insurance is a Godsend and one less thing to stress on.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 3, 2018 - 7:42pm.

I’m surprised that an economist doesn’t think on a macro level. If I remember, we spend less than 20% of GDP on health care. If we can improve aggregate health outcomes and spend less then we have more money to spend on other things. Trump said it would be so easy. It should be irrelevant whether health care is government run or not.

I’m with you spdrun. I hardly use health care, and I don’t want health insurance or signing up or all the crap. It should be show your Social Security card and be eligible for coverage.

Medicare is also crap in an advanced society IMO. It should be government run like the VA. I’m Ok with rationing (don’t like it? You can supplement with private insurance.)

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 9, 2018 - 11:52am.

Econprof is right but not in the ways he enumerated.

On trade and protectionism, Trump is very much like Jesse Jackson. Remember, Clinton signed NAFTA against Democrats.

On immigrantion, Trump is like the unions of the 1970s who feared competition from new immigrants. Since then, Democrats have become more cosmopolitan and multi-cultural

On Korea, Trump is talking to Kim at the highest levels without preconditions. That's something that hardliners would have never allowed before.

On Russia and China, Trump is weak. Anyone like that would have been accused of being a "commie." Like readmiting Russia to G7.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on June 12, 2018 - 8:13am.

I would take any California democrats promise of universal healthcare with a very large dose of skepticism.

As I said before they have already voted it down at least twice.

They seem very much in the pockets of the insurance companies.

Submitted by EconProf on June 23, 2018 - 6:01pm.

More good economic news: Unemployment compensation claims were predicted to come in at 233,000. Instead, they were 190,000.
As the Trump economy continues to grow beyond expectations of the experts, the unemployment rate hits new lows, and the unemployment rate for the historically most disadvantaged falls even faster than that for average workers, the irony continues. Whatever you may think of Trump the man, his policies have done more to help those groups liberals claim to want to help than any government handouts Obama delivered.

Submitted by zk on June 23, 2018 - 7:41pm.

EconProf wrote:
More good economic news: Unemployment compensation claims were predicted to come in at 233,000. Instead, they were 190,000.
As the Trump economy continues to grow beyond expectations of the experts, the unemployment rate hits new lows, and the unemployment rate for the historically most disadvantaged falls even faster than that for average workers, the irony continues. Whatever you may think of Trump the man, his policies have done more to help those groups liberals claim to want to help than any government handouts Obama delivered.

Real economics professors are accused of being ensconced in their ivory towers.

Apparently, fake ones seclude themselves in an alternate reality and cling to any old made-up narrative that makes them feel good.

Submitted by spdrun on June 24, 2018 - 9:52am.

If you're "historically disadvantaged", would you rather be stuck at a dead-end McJob or be given enough welfare/free insurance to be able to go to school and not have to take the McJob? Employment isn't the full picture, sometimes quality of the job and social mobility matter as well.

Submitted by EconProf on June 25, 2018 - 7:59am.

Let's look more closely at the possibility of upward mobility for that "historically disadvantaged" youngster with a "deadend McJob" compared to one who takes government freebees.
He or she may be a minority, growing up poor, likely without a father present, going to a crap inner-city school with unionized teachers, and maybe has a run-in with the law on record.
Our booming economy forces employers to consider these previously-overlooked applicants. That first job exposes the youngster to valuable life-lessons for the first time: Be on time, dress well, be courteous, work hard whether you feel like it or not. Most of all, a weekly paycheck gives them pride of accomplishment. And that demanding boss may be the first father-figure they ever had.
That first job can be the bottom rung of the ladder where they advance within the company (many McDonalds managers started at the bottom) or can enable them to put something on their resume when they apply for a better job elsewhere.

Submitted by spdrun on June 25, 2018 - 8:19am.

Here's the thing: not everyone wants to end up being a middle manager at McDonarby King's at 40. "Advancing within a company" isn't a substitute for education and being able to actually choose one's career, rather than being tracked into being a manager at a lard and grease slinger.

Go to France or certain other European countries -- anyone with a high school diploma can start medical school, the bar to admission is very low. Work hard the first two years, pass exams, and you're guaranteed to get into the next four years. Social mobility in the US is actually falling while it's increasing in other countries.

As far as run-ins with the law, the liberal solution is better than the conservative one. Legalize some drugs, allow people to clear their records. Permissiveness trumps authoritarianism here, pun intended.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 25, 2018 - 2:28pm.

zk, I think econprof voted for Trump and he's trying to rationalize his decision.

Trump is not conservative in any sense. In fact, he's "refudiating" traditions that conservative hold dear. And in the process, Trump is destroying our institutions.

Anyway, I stopped caring about the grievances of his base in the rust belt. They can have him.

I just love it that Harley Davidson is moving production offshore to protect their European market share. I think that a real economist would have seen that coming.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 25, 2018 - 2:39pm.

spdrun wrote:
Social mobility in the US is actually falling while it's increasing in other countries.

The US worker benefited from the post WWII boom. Other nations had to rebuild economies and institutions.

The average American worker is not very educated and knowledgeable. People in other countries are benefiting from globalization of education and leapfrogging Americans in knowledge. That's the reason the majority of tech professionals are foreign born.

Pretty much tech and health care are the two private sectors of the economy providing real wage growth for salaried employees.

https://www.amazon.com/New-Wealth-Nation...

Submitted by EconProf on June 25, 2018 - 2:48pm.

Spdrun:
Jan King started out with French fries at a Dayton, Ohio McDonald's in 1978. She eventually headed up McDonalds USA and now is Chairman of the Board of Buffalo Wild Wings.
If you would like to meet her, she will be the keynote speaker September 14 at the San Diego Lincoln Club Dinner.
That way you could ask her what she thinks of her first job as a "lard and grease slinger".

Submitted by spdrun on June 25, 2018 - 4:51pm.

Jan Fields? Maybe she didn't want to go into that track -- maybe all she wanted to do is get her Ph. D. and do research benefitting humankind.

Believe it or not, being a board chairman of a chain restaurant isn't the pinnacle of human existence.

Submitted by zk on June 25, 2018 - 6:58pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:

Trump is not conservative in any sense.

Except in instances when doing what's conservative means the same thing as doing what's good for donald trump.

"I'll do what's good for me" is his only ideology. It's the only one he's ever had. If I could bet on such a thing, I'd bet my net worth that it's the only one he'll ever have.

Anybody who thinks he makes decisions based on anything else is blind. Or a chump. Or, most likely, a brainwashed, fox-watching fool.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 25, 2018 - 9:44pm.

EconProf wrote:
Spdrun:
Jan King started out with French fries at a Dayton, Ohio McDonald's in 1978. She eventually headed up McDonalds USA and now is Chairman of the Board of Buffalo Wild Wings.

Such stupid prosperity gospel with one example that’s supposed to motivate. Plus the law of numbers dictates that there are only so many places at the top.

It would be more economically sound to advocate that rust belt residents move to where new industries and services are developing. I still remember my Econ Prof preaching about mobility of labor.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 26, 2018 - 10:14am.

So Trump threatens Harley Davidson after using them politically and praising them before.

And the free market folks are mum.

Trump threatens Harley-Davidson with taxes ‘like never before’ and predicts its eventual collapse
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/busi...

What I find funny is that Trump supporters are blasting China for having an industrial policy. Remember, government planning never works so why fret?

Also, the bond market is signaling recession.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/05/14/the-...

I predict that the Trump tax cuts was just temporary juice to the economy. But everything else will cause recession and long term American decline.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on June 26, 2018 - 2:34pm.

FlyerInHi

Sounds like you are a true believer in China's plan to be the #1 world power by their 100 year anniversary of the revolution.

Me I am not convinced.

Baring the whole country tearing itself apart. IMO in 50 years the #1 world power will still be USA by a very long shot.

That said the middle is a very lonely place right now, everyone seems to have taken a side (extreme far right or extreme far left) no one wants to meet in the middle anymore.

Sad.

Submitted by zk on June 26, 2018 - 8:00pm.

The-Shoveler wrote:

That said the middle is a very lonely place right now, everyone seems to have taken a side (extreme far right or extreme far left) no one wants to meet in the middle anymore.

Sad.

Generally true.

But there shouldn't be a conflation of a rabid hatred of trump with a lack of desire to meet in the middle. There's an awful lot of hatred out there for trump. Obviously I think it's well deserved hatred.

I hate trump more than I thought I was capable of hating a person. And I'm obviously not shy about telling people that. But I am more than willing to meet in the middle. Heck, some of my positions are right of center.

You weren't talking to or about me, I know. But a lot of people seem to mistake a hatred of trump for an unwillingness to compromise. You haven't given any indication that you're one of those people, so please don't think I'm accusing you of that; I'm not. I just wanted to point out to anyone reading that they're not the same thing, and that you can hate trump and still be willing to meet in the middle. You can hate trump and be in the middle. You can be conservative and hate trump. I'm sure you realize that, but not everyone does.

Submitted by outtamojo on June 26, 2018 - 10:08pm.

https://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog...

More Trump supporters gonna love all that winnin

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 27, 2018 - 12:10am.

The-Shoveler wrote:
FlyerInHi

Sounds like you are a true believer in China's plan to be the #1 world power by their 100 year anniversary of the revolution.

Me I am not convinced.

Baring the whole country tearing itself apart. IMO in 50 years the #1 world power will still be USA by a very long shot.

That said the middle is a very lonely place right now, everyone seems to have taken a side (extreme far right or extreme far left) no one wants to meet in the middle anymore.

Sad.

I believe in giving credit where credit is due.
China’s obituaries have been written so many times before in the last 30 years. However, it’s indeniable that China has moved up relative to us. The innovation in China has surprised many, including our own leaders. Do you wish you owned property in shanghai? It’s like suburban people writing off NYC and Washington, DC. Don’t you wish you owned some brownstones in the city?

BTW, of course the USA will still be #1 in 50 years but by what measures? There will like be more billions of people in the globalized world richer and more educated than the “average” American.

Actually tariffs and protectionism was a pre bill Clinton democratic idea. Trump just recycled an old idea that would have worked then, but is too late now.

As far as the middle, it has moved to the jump-the-shark, low-education right.
The conservatives of the 1950s and 1960s would shun the low education people of the right today. In fact, the low education folks belonged to the Democrats until Kennedy embraced civil rights.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 26, 2018 - 11:45pm.

outtamojo wrote:
https://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog/2018/06/26/trumps-tariffs-are-causing-cascading-layoffs-in-missouri?media=AMP%20HTML

More Trump supporters gonna love all that winnin

Let them eat cake. Dumb people deserve what they get. Smart people never voted against their own interests.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on June 27, 2018 - 7:22am.

"Do you wish you owned property in shanghai? It’s like suburban people writing off NYC and Washington, DC. Don’t you wish you owned some brownstones in the city?"

As an investment maybe, to visit once in awhile maybe.

To live in no.

"Smart people never voted against their own interests."

Actually I think they are lied to and tricked all the time.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on June 27, 2018 - 6:51pm.

spdrun wrote:

As far as run-ins with the law, the liberal solution is better than the conservative one. Legalize some drugs, allow people to clear their records. Permissiveness trumps authoritarianism here, pun intended.

I agree with you. But...

I'm ok with Sessions' war on drugs. The consumption of drugs in urban areas has reached peak already so that market is saturated.

Drugs are now hitting suburban and rural areas.... because, naturally, the free market seeks growth and customers. Suburban and rural families should suffer the war on drugs they voted for. Let them pay and get some comeuppance.

1/5 of Americans are now on psychological drugs, not counting marijuana, illegal drugs and diverted prescription painkillers. Not to mention over-the-counter painkillers that lead people to seek out prescription. But according to Trump, the people doing drugs aren't at fault. Blame the Mexicans!

Submitted by EconProf on July 6, 2018 - 6:17pm.

More good employment news today that liberals should be cheering.
213,000 new jobs created last month.
Hispanic unemployment rate lowest in history-- 4.6%, down from 4.9% in previous month.
Black unemployment rate still super low.
Hispanic and African-American support rising for Trump, worrying Democrats.

The unemployment rate overall actually rose to 4%, reportedly because previously discouraged workers are coming off the sidelines after hearing about employers anxious to hire.

Trump the liberal.

Submitted by spdrun on July 6, 2018 - 8:00pm.

There's more to liberalism than the ecaaaaaahnamy and giving everyone a crap job that they hate every minute of, but can't get out of. That's called "keeping people on the fucking treadmill" not liberalism.

Personal freedoms. The choice whether to keep a baby or not. Freedom of religion, but also freedom FROM religion.

A sense of proportion in law enforcement, not "zero tolerance" crap designed to prove a point while harming actual humans.

A safety net, so when you get ill or lose your job, you don't go medically bankrupt.

Access to inexpensive and public education, so people aren't dependent on the whim of an employer to better themselves.

If you're calling Trump a liberal, you fail to understand a lot of things. Of course, you're an "economist" (supposedly). It's no wonder economics is called the "dismal science."

Submitted by FlyerInHi on July 7, 2018 - 1:47pm.

Econprof, did you read George Will’s latest column?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...

Submitted by FlyerInHi on July 7, 2018 - 1:53pm.

I see that Fox News no longer mentions the labor participation rate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloombe...

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