Dishwasher recommendations? Black Friday coming up!

User Forum Topic
Submitted by bibsoconner on November 20, 2019 - 1:53pm

Hello all,

I considered hijacking this Black Friday post (https://www.piggington.com/black_friday_...) as my question is somewhat related but decided it warrants its own post.

I'm looking for recommendations for dishwasher, particularly basic, cheap ones.

I've been having trouble with my supposedly top of the line Bosch dishwasher. Model is SHX68T55UC and it's only about 3 1/2 years old. Cost was about $800 at Lowes I think. Rather than fix it, I'm seriously considering junking it. I realize some of you have not just your home dishwasher, but rental unit ones too, and therefore have more experience than me! This time, I'm leaning towards ignoring the boss (wife) and going super cheap and buying at Costco (I think I get 2 extra years of warranty). My reasoning is that if it's going to break in 4 years, I'll be 50% less upset if it costs $400 rather than $800.

The cost to have someone look at the Bosch (Bosch certified folks) is about $139 PLUS $50 every fifteen minutes. That last part of the sentence is not a typo! $50/15 minutes, or $200/hr. I'm somewhat handy myself but this problem has me stumped. I've taken the door off and the lower panel and observed the bottom part of the unit getting water in it. The flood sensor (E-15) came on, and sure enough there is water in the lower electronics basin, but for the life of me, I can't figure out where it's coming from. I'm somewhat tempted to pay the money just because I'm curious what the problem actually is! More details of my Bosch unit woes are at:

https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/...

I posted there for advice.

I'll close with a warning for those who don't know.... Don't use liquid soap if you run out of dishwasher tablets. I followed a recipe from Dr. Google, consisting of a few drops of liquid soap and some baking soda. Did that for 4 nights. My problems might be coincidental, but it sufficiently scared me not to use liquid soap again!

Thanks,
Dave

P.S. On the plus side of this fiasco, I've been having the kids wash dishes by hand, so at least I'm getting some work out of them!

Submitted by The-Shoveler on December 11, 2019 - 3:50pm.

Should be interesting, either they will need to add planned obsolescence or lease only on EV's or just add bunch of cheap plastic parts LOL.

I would only lease a BMW that I fully intended to turn in at this point IMO.

IMO the mobile service providers seem to be pushing Leased phones as a way to lock you in (making it too expensive to turn in phone and quit). The worst part is they advertise these phones as "FREE" (you have to read the fine print).

Submitted by svelte on December 16, 2019 - 8:52pm.

The-Shoveler wrote:
Should be interesting, either they will need to add planned obsolescence or lease only on EV's or just add bunch of cheap plastic parts LOL.

Technology is changing so fast in cars right now that it makes the most sense to lease - we've leased my wife's last two cars because we knew that a host of new features would be available in the near future.

Submitted by Coronita on December 17, 2019 - 5:24am.

leasing makes sense these days because cars these days aren't built for you to drive into the ground 20 years later. there is so much electronics that most of it , when it fails, can't easily be replaceable. Cars these days aren't exactly environmentally friendly if you count how short car lifespans are these days, all the pollution it took to manufacture all that electronics in that car, and disposal of all that eWaste in that car.

Leasing isn't great, however, if you track your car and/or heavily mod your car. Insurance usually does not cover your car anywhere "a race event could take place" and as part of a lease, you need to have insurance at all times. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable using a car that wasn't fully paid off and could be written off completely. Too much shit can go wrong. I already had two incidence where I slid into a wall and another one I hit a storm drain hard and it cracked fuel line hard and the car lit up on fire in older car during the practice laps. Fortunately, most of it was cosmetic and what really needed to be repaired was $300 total. Some guy in a leased C7 went over an embankment one time, and it was painful to see
. I wonder how he explained that to his insurance. A guy I knew did worse, he rolled his RS4 at Willow Springs. He wrote that off, and he was fortunate to walk off alive.

shit happensshit happens

Submitted by FlyerInHi on December 18, 2019 - 4:02pm.

Flu, who gives a shit about your cars?

Submitted by The-Shoveler on December 19, 2019 - 8:07am.

I like flu's car posts LOL.

Submitted by svelte on December 19, 2019 - 8:48pm.

flu wrote:
A guy I knew did worse, he rolled his RS4 at Willow Springs. He wrote that off...

From the looks of things, he didn't have a choice!

Submitted by svelte on December 19, 2019 - 9:24pm.

I'm torn on the statement that cars won't age well because of the increasing electronics in modern cars.

On the one hand, that will certainly be problematic. I have a friend who, about two years ago, told me something went out in his 2009 Charger SRT8 and he couldn't get that part from Dodge...it was an electronic part (seems like it was part of the dash cluster? can't recall) and all that was available was a rebuilt replacement. The car was out of warranty but not that old by any means.

So that points to flu being right.

On the other hand, the average age of a car is now approaching 12 years old, an all-time high. If electronics are hurting their aging, then how can this be? Perhaps the average age will head south here in a few years as the technology laden cars age?

It will be interesting to watch.

Submitted by Coronita on December 19, 2019 - 10:01pm.

svelte wrote:
I'm torn on the statement that cars won't age well because of the increasing electronics in modern cars.

On the one hand, that will certainly be problematic. I have a friend who, about two years ago, told me something went out in his 2009 Charger SRT8 and he couldn't get that part from Dodge...it was an electronic part (seems like it was part of the dash cluster? can't recall) and all that was available was a rebuilt replacement. The car was out of warranty but not that old by any means.

So that points to flu being right.

On the other hand, the average age of a car is now approaching 12 years old, an all-time high. If electronics are hurting their aging, then how can this be? Perhaps the average age will head south here in a few years as the technology laden cars age?

It will be interesting to watch.

My 2000 Audi had a LED display screen that started to pixelate and fail around the 10 year mark. I found an electronics guy that desoldered the screen and replaced it with a compatible screen that is still functional. The Mercedes had a similar issue that I didn't bother having repaired. These original led screens where used for informational purposes only, so while they were an eyesore, were not critical to driving the car. Fast forward today. Mercedes all use an LCD screen for everything, there are no mechanical gauges anymore. BMW and Audi lately have done the same thing. When that LCD goes bad, it's not a simple instrument cluster "swap". Even my latest car, with the center touch screen, some people have reported it delaminating 3 years later.

The airbag control module for my 19 year old Audi just recently started to throw a fault code. over time , it's a known issue these airbag modules go bad when I'm a colder weather. Cost to replace them are $800, or roughly 40% the value of the car. I just use. $25 eBay air bag reset tool every so often. even if they are available electronics parts are incredibly expensive. They will run more than the car is worth.

Submitted by svelte on December 19, 2019 - 10:09pm.

flu wrote:

My 2000 Audi had a LED display screen that started to pixelate and fail around the 10 year mark. I found an electronics guy that desoldered the screen and replaced it with a compatible screen that is still functional. The Mercedes had a similar issue that I didn't bother having repaired. These original led screens where used for informational purposes only, so while they were an eyesore, were not critical to driving the car.

Looks like where there's a need, someone will step up with a solution. $150 if you supply the defective cluster.

https://www.germanaudiotech.com/products...

Submitted by Coronita on December 19, 2019 - 10:35pm.

svelte wrote:
flu wrote:

My 2000 Audi had a LED display screen that started to pixelate and fail around the 10 year mark. I found an electronics guy that desoldered the screen and replaced it with a compatible screen that is still functional. The Mercedes had a similar issue that I didn't bother having repaired. These original led screens where used for informational purposes only, so while they were an eyesore, were not critical to driving the car.

Looks like where there's a need, someone will step up with a solution. $150 if you supply the defective cluster.

https://www.germanaudiotech.com/products/audi-a4-s4-a6-s6-tt-instrument-speedometer-cluster-dash-pixel-repair-service

Yup, that's correct. I used one of these guys.

However, this also depends on how widespread the part is for the person to invest the time and money to do this.

Back to the LCD screen display issue on the Audi. The LCD screen used was on all Audis for a few uears. A4, S4 , A6, etc..

These new clusters however are almost model line specific. I don't think the same cluster you find on the 5 series is the same as the 3 series.

In addition, I think car companies have intentionally designed for lack of serviceability for independent and home mechanics. For example, wrto Tesla, you can't even buy parts from a parts counter to do your own repair.

Submitted by temeculaguy on December 20, 2019 - 12:54am.

The-Shoveler wrote:
I like flu's car posts LOL.

I also like FLU's car posts.

Submitted by svelte on December 20, 2019 - 6:21pm.

As if on cue, Jalopnik posted today about Cadillac XLR LED taillights going for about $3K...

https://jalopnik.com/why-a-cadillac-xlr-...

Submitted by Coronita on December 20, 2019 - 7:58pm.

I can't imagine electric cars being a long lifetime car that you can keep for 20+years.

But you know I don't think most new cars will last as long as older more mechanical cars. Here's another example. Most new ICE cars don't use a real mechanical gas pedal anymore. And many don't use a mechanical steering rack too.

My ND Miata uses both drive by wire pedal and also electronic steering. These things are bound to break. BMWs no longer use mechanical shifters for their automatics and many of their cars now use electronic emergency brakes. I would say my NA Miata will probably me more reliable than my NDx even though my ND is a better overall miata...(My ND Miata has other issues. the manual gearboxes have been snapping easily by people. People think they've took the gram strategy too far. I'm about to order a spare transmission from Mazda Motorsports with a racer's discount and store it away in case I snap one out of warranty. I think I already voided it anyway since I stuck a blower on the engine, lol. $1600 for a new transmission with a racer's discount. that's cheap. Funny thing is the Fiat 124 is actually more reliable. Fiat engineers stick with the previous generation NC transmission

Submitted by spdrun on December 20, 2019 - 9:29pm.

Your ND Miata still has mechanical steering ... there's a mechanical shaft connected to the steering wheel driving a gear on the rack. The power ASSISTANCE is just electrical, not hydraulic -- it's actually less prone to leaks and easier to "depower" than a hydraulic rack. Even Teslas (techbro mobiles par excellence) have a mechanical connection between the wheel and the steering rack.

Submitted by Coronita on December 20, 2019 - 10:57pm.

spdrun wrote:
Your ND Miata still has mechanical steering ... there's a mechanical shaft connected to the steering wheel driving a gear on the rack. The power ASSISTANCE is just electrical, not hydraulic -- it's actually less prone to leaks and easier to "depower" than a hydraulic rack. Even Teslas (techbro mobiles par excellence) have a mechanical connection between the wheel and the steering rack.

Correct, poor choice of words on my parts. Although electronic PS has not been problematic on my ND yet, it certainly has been problematic on the BMWs.

Submitted by spdrun on December 20, 2019 - 11:15pm.

It's a 2200 lb car. Can you depower the stupid thing and call it a day? Some cars even mount the motor on the column, not in the rack, making it even easier to convert to a manual system (if you have a reasonably normal level of arm strength).

Submitted by Coronita on December 21, 2019 - 7:25am.

spdrun wrote:
It's a 2200 lb car. Can you depower the stupid thing and call it a day? Some cars even mount the motor on the column, not in the rack, making it even easier to convert to a manual system (if you have a reasonably normal level of arm strength).

Conversion, yes. depower easily no. People tried disabling, but it was an awful experience going through slaloms..

Flying Miata did conversion to a hydraulic system. But they did that as part of their V8 LS3 conversion. Mazda reprogrammed the steering for some cars starting my year, so I personally like the feel. purists complain about it though. I would prefer if Mazda spent their time fixing the weak gearbox. The Fiat 124 isnt bad. It's basically Miata with a Fiat engine. And they are pretty cheap new now that Fiat is on the verge of being extinct in the US. You can pick up a new Fiat 124 for around $21k, and there's now a pretty decent tuning option for them. Untuned, they are kinda sluggish.

Submitted by Coronita on December 21, 2019 - 8:16am.

Speaking of expensive tailights. Here's another example. The Ford F150.

If you bought a truck with the blindspot gimic, and someone smashes your tailights or it gets cracked, be prepared to fork over +$350-$600+
https://www.1aauto.com/2015-17-ford-f150...
(List price is $1000 )! That's just for the LED tailight. You still need to move the blindspot module into the new headlight

If you just bought a no frills truck, that taillight is $42 with an easily replaceable bulb.

https://www.carparts.com/details/Ford/F-...

All these overengineered electronic designs in cars are just one more thing driving up long term customer cost of maintenance and ownership.

at least BMW didn't make servicing the rear brake pads require a BMW scan tool to release the e-brake....yet...
https://youtu.be/Ljq4ATPorXM
I just wonder how long that e-brake motor will last. Probably not longer than a traditional cable

Submitted by svelte on December 21, 2019 - 9:44am.

flu wrote:
If you bought a truck with the blindspot gimic...

Might be a gimmick on a single cab with no camper shell. Otherwise there can truly be blind spots on trucks.

A few years ago we bought a car that just happened to have blind spot detection. Once we became used to it, we have insisted it be on every car we have since then. It doesn't replace looking over the shoulder and mirror usage, but it is one additional check mark that gives us greater peace of mind when changing lanes/turning.

Same with front and rear sensors. At first we were "whatever", but now that we have them, man do we love them! Just additional data points we can use to determine whether we are positioned correctly. Manufacturers are getting much better at placing the sensors so they are better integrated into the car and don't look like someone drilled holes into the bumper and slapped in a sensor.

So I guess you can blame my wife and I for all the new electronics in cars. We love them. Our older cars feel like covered wagons when we drive them now.

Submitted by Coronita on December 21, 2019 - 1:28pm.

svelte wrote:
flu wrote:
If you bought a truck with the blindspot gimic...

Might be a gimmick on a single cab with no camper shell. Otherwise there can truly be blind spots on trucks.

A few years ago we bought a car that just happened to have blind spot detection. Once we became used to it, we have insisted it be on every car we have since then. It doesn't replace looking over the shoulder and mirror usage, but it is one additional check mark that gives us greater peace of mind when changing lanes/turning.

Same with front and rear sensors. At first we were "whatever", but now that we have them, man do we love them! Just additional data points we can use to determine whether we are positioned correctly. Manufacturers are getting much better at placing the sensors so they are better integrated into the car and don't look like someone drilled holes into the bumper and slapped in a sensor.

So I guess you can blame my wife and I for all the new electronics in cars. We love them. Our older cars feel like covered wagons when we drive them now.

I think a blindspot system and rear camera in general is a good idea on a large vehicle, I just question Ford's decision to put them in the taillight. it just to me seems to expose those things to easily get damaged. And there probably is a happy medium between wanting luxury and paying for it (now and later) and also wanting a Spartan car geared more for reliability. I don't think these technology advancements are bad, just they have tradeoffs.

I like the F-150 especially this generations. I'd probably would avoid getting the electronic blindspot sensors, assuming it doesn't become a mandated requirement for new cars eventually.

Submitted by temeculaguy on December 27, 2019 - 10:44pm.

The wife's 2015 Cadillac had the LCD (Cue) go out and it was replaced under warranty in 2017, In 2019, right after the warranty expires the completely replaced unit went out (they didn't replace the screen, they replaced the $1600 unit). I replaced it in about two hours using an $80 part and $20 in tools from Amazon. Could have taken 5 minutes if it was engineered differently but had to take it out of the dash and remove about 40 screws, had two left over when I was done so hopefully it lasts. Youtube, Amazon and some entrepreneurs are fighting back against planned obsolescence. At least the Caddy is easy to work on.

Submitted by Coronita on December 27, 2019 - 10:57pm.

I've been finding a lot of parts for Volkswagon/Audi on Amazon. These are parts made on China, but the funny thing is often these parts that were designed and made in China are better than OEM!

For instance. This stupid OEM coolant temp sensor flange is made out of plastic and sits behind the engine block,right in front of the firewall. After 100k miles, this stupid critical plastic component starts to crack and eventually leaks or spectacularly fails.
https://www.amazon.com/Coolant-06B121132...

Check out this clever redesign of the OEM plastic part.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MGK...

All metal, no more cracking. $10 more.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on December 29, 2019 - 12:56am.

About cars, why not take Flu’s advice with regard to appliances — buy something cheap, functional, mass produced with parts plentiful and easy to find. A Toyota Corolla or a Hyundai Elantra. I wonder if flu would recommend Chevy.

Submitted by bibsoconner on February 17, 2020 - 11:43am.

Myself, I like to hear the end of a story so I thought I'd post what I think is the last chapter in this saga. I file a complaint against Bosch with BBB. If you look them up, you can see many others have done the same and they have a 'D' rating! So, without much hope that it would help, I filed a complaint. BBB got back to me to say that Bosch hadn't bothered to respond and that was all they could do. I resigned myself to writing it off as a loss and went and got a KitchenAid at Costco. I had no interest in taking them to court (although I think I had a strong case).

Out of the blue, Bosch called me, stated that upper management had reviewed the file, and they wanted to give me a new dishwasher! I felt sort of bad returning the KitchenAid to Costco. My wife pointed out that the KitcheAid didn't wash dishes as well as the Bosch. I replied, "how could you say that? The Bosch didn't work at all. Oh! you mean when the Bosch was working!". In any case, KitchenAid is returned, and we have a new Bosch. We shall see if it lasts more than 3 1/2 years. My out of pocket cost is the $155 I paid to have a Bosch representative come out initially and spend 5 minutes to say, "yep, it's leaking from the tub". Of course, I'm out a heck of a lot of time.

I guess the moral of the story if there is one is be persistent. Or perhaps it is to use BBB. I'm not sure if that's what did it or not. They didn't ask me to amend my complaint so I'm not sure.

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