Did your parents teach you how to make it in the world on your own?

Submitted by moneymaker on October 8, 2016 - 2:17am
Yes
52% (17 votes)
No
18% (6 votes)
Maybe a little bit but not really
30% (10 votes)
Total votes: 33
Submitted by La Jolla Renter on October 9, 2016 - 11:37pm.

Not really, but they were amazingly supportive while I figured it out myself. Like most older Americans, I ran the streets til dark all through elementary school, (no homework) ran the streets in high school a lot later and didn't study much. And somehow seem a lot smarter then all the millennials I've met that have hours of homework every night from K-12.

I'm going to find out what the heck is going on in our schools when mine start next year.

Submitted by no_such_reality on October 10, 2016 - 6:05am.

LJR. Oh yea you're going to find out...

Seriously, mine started last year, total eye opener. Honestly, the major drumbeats of both sides are all correct. Next year, our school district decided to move the year start up one week earlier, we will be a solid two weeks before Labor Day, the justification? Give the kids more time to prepare for AP and SAT tests.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 10, 2016 - 10:50am.

NSR, when I went to school in Europe, I went to class half day Saturday. No complaints.

If some parents make their kids study harder, isn't that teaching them endurance and making sacrifices in life, playing by the rules and becoming excellent?

Submitted by bobby on October 10, 2016 - 1:33pm.

I think a lot of folks on this site would say yes. This site was originally for skeptics, those who did not believe the housing propaganda of the aughts. There will be sampling bias.
as for me, didn't have a choice. growing up on welfare means you have to rely on yourself once you are of voting age. So yes.

Submitted by harvey on October 10, 2016 - 3:24pm.

Yes.

My father named me Sue.

Submitted by moneymaker on October 10, 2016 - 9:04pm.

bobby I am somewhat surprised that your parents had the foresight to teach you how to be self sufficient when they didn't seem to be, so I'm not saying are you successful in life but did your parents instill that success in you, and not by being a bad example that would not really count. My mom was on a form of welfare (deseret) which is the Mormon church helping out, which I applaud them for as I don't know that that happens in the other churches as much. She did not teach me how to balance a check book or the evils of credit cards or how to write a business plan. Yet my siblings and I are all doing well now, but not because of parents.

Submitted by njtosd on October 11, 2016 - 12:21am.

FlyerInHi wrote:
NSR, when I went to school in Europe, I went to class half day Saturday. No complaints.

If some parents make their kids study harder, isn't that teaching them endurance and making sacrifices in life, playing by the rules and becoming excellent?

Did you get any time off on Wednesday? Many schools in Catholic countries had shortened days on Wednesday's to make time for religious education (at least this is what I've been told).

So let's say you spend a zillion hours to become "excellent" and then spend one hour being excellent before you die. Is that a good idea? If not, what is the right balance? No parent doubts the importance of study, endurance or sacrifice. The question, as with everything, is: when have you done enough? How much sacrifice is too much? And what if you wake up at 45 and decide you've wasted your time?

Good parents want their kids to be happy and healthy and safe. How you get there is the subject of some debate.

Submitted by millennial on October 11, 2016 - 9:34am.

La Jolla Renter wrote:
Not really, but they were amazingly supportive while I figured it out myself. Like most older Americans, I ran the streets til dark all through elementary school, (no homework) ran the streets in high school a lot later and didn't study much. And somehow seem a lot smarter then all the millennials I've met that have hours of homework every night from K-12.

I'm going to find out what the heck is going on in our schools when mine start next year.

As a millennial, I'm going to ignore your idiotic remark regarding millennials, since it's a worthless statement and has no real substance behind it. Also since you feel this way, maybe you should let your kids run in the dark through all of elementary school. Meanwhile, my three kids will be using the time wisely so they can set themselves up for later in life.

Personally my parents were like yours and although I had a lot of fun growing up, I really feel like my time would have been better spent elsewhere.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 11, 2016 - 3:39pm.

Maybe not represented on this board but boomers for the most part were free range kids who mostly had to fend for themselves.
Anyway IMO

Submitted by bobby on October 11, 2016 - 5:44pm.

moneymaker wrote:
bobby I am somewhat surprised that your parents had the foresight to teach you how to be self sufficient when they didn't seem to be, so I'm not saying are you successful in life but did your parents instill that success in you, and not by being a bad example that would not really count. My mom was on a form of welfare (deseret) which is the Mormon church helping out, which I applaud them for as I don't know that that happens in the other churches as much. She did not teach me how to balance a check book or the evils of credit cards or how to write a business plan. Yet my siblings and I are all doing well now, but not because of parents.

well... it's a little more complicated than that.
we immigrated here from war-torn country. Father not in picture so welfare was only way to survive. luckily mother was responsible in raising us and stressed education so we all turned out OK.

Submitted by NotCranky on October 11, 2016 - 5:48pm.

I think I would be really good at being homeless. If it were only not so taboo and
dangerous.

Submitted by moneymaker on October 11, 2016 - 8:18pm.

Glad to hear that bobby! Just found out today that my half brother is going to be staying in jail for a while, so guess he didn't learn any valuable lessons from my dad.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 12, 2016 - 12:54pm.

my dad seemed to hate work so much it made me very hesitant to get a f/t job.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 12, 2016 - 12:55pm.

Blogstar wrote:
I think I would be really good at being homeless. If it were only not so taboo and
dangerous.

much easier with a van.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 12, 2016 - 1:34pm.

njtosd wrote:
FlyerInHi wrote:
NSR, when I went to school in Europe, I went to class half day Saturday. No complaints.

If some parents make their kids study harder, isn't that teaching them endurance and making sacrifices in life, playing by the rules and becoming excellent?

Did you get any time off on Wednesday? Many schools in Catholic countries had shortened days on Wednesday's to make time for religious education (at least this is what I've been told).

So let's say you spend a zillion hours to become "excellent" and then spend one hour being excellent before you die. Is that a good idea? If not, what is the right balance? No parent doubts the importance of study, endurance or sacrifice. The question, as with everything, is: when have you done enough? How much sacrifice is too much? And what if you wake up at 45 and decide you've wasted your time?

Good parents want their kids to be happy and healthy and safe. How you get there is the subject of some debate.

njtosd, I'm playing the devil's advocate a little bit.
Did you watch the Frontline documentary on Trump and Clinton? I'm sure the stories are exaggerated but they were driven.

Submitted by Balboa_Again on October 14, 2016 - 9:24am.

Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I'm mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.

To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.

Submitted by NotCranky on October 14, 2016 - 9:52am.

The issue of being a joiner or not is huge. I just recently told my wife that it is the biggest area in which I want my kids to be different than me.

Maybe there should be a group for us , something like non-joiners anonymous.

Submitted by millennial on October 14, 2016 - 10:31am.

Balboa_Again wrote:
Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I'm mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.

To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.

It's funny because I'm exactly the same way, whereas I don't take huge risks, but I always attribute it to growing up with parents who were upper middle class. I sometimes wish I had that "nothing to lose" mentality.

Although my wife doesn't believe it, I feel that communities are very important to happiness. I think I'm going to add that to my list of things to teach my children.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 14, 2016 - 11:10am.

Taking huge all or nothing risks is a mental illness.
People who succeed are elevated, but nobody talks about the vast majority who fail.

You always need a baseline security blanket.

For example if you take risks and suddenly come into wealth, you will be celebrated and plenty of people will want to be your friends. When you take another risk and lose it all, people will sneer at you for being a fake. I have the feeling that's the fate Trump will suffer

Submitted by millennial on October 14, 2016 - 1:45pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Taking huge all or nothing risks is a mental illness.
People who succeed are elevated, but nobody talks about the vast majority who fail.

You always need a baseline security blanket.

For example if you take risks and suddenly come into wealth, you will be celebrated and plenty of people will want to be your friends. When you take another risk and lose it all, people will sneer at you for being a fake. I have the feeling that's the fate Trump will suffer

I don't think there are a lot of all or nothing risks out there. At the end of the day most people always have a security blanket like family and/ community, and America has lenient bankruptcy laws.

Trump will probably lose something, but not everything since he rarely signs personal guarantees. Either way he'll be fine in the end.

Submitted by njtosd on October 14, 2016 - 2:51pm.

millennial wrote:
Balboa_Again wrote:
Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I'm mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.

To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.

It's funny because I'm exactly the same way, whereas I don't take huge risks, but I always attribute it to growing up with parents who were upper middle class. I sometimes wish I had that "nothing to lose" mentality.

Although my wife doesn't believe it, I feel that communities are very important to happiness. I think I'm going to add that to my list of things to teach my children.

This is an easy one: (1) Name the top three fun memories you have, or even the top 10; (2) Answer this question - were you alone for any of those experiences? My guess is that the answer for most people would be no for all of them. Worst experiences - probably the same. Communities, friend groups, whatever, make life good (or miserable according to the person who coined the phrase "hell is other people").

Being alone is easy but not fun. Being with people can be more difficult and more work (more views to take into account, more compromise, more diapers to change, more milk to buy) but is almost always more fun.

Submitted by millennial on October 14, 2016 - 4:50pm.

njtosd wrote:
millennial wrote:
Balboa_Again wrote:
Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I'm mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.

To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.

It's funny because I'm exactly the same way, whereas I don't take huge risks, but I always attribute it to growing up with parents who were upper middle class. I sometimes wish I had that "nothing to lose" mentality.

Although my wife doesn't believe it, I feel that communities are very important to happiness. I think I'm going to add that to my list of things to teach my children.

This is an easy one: (1) Name the top three fun memories you have, or even the top 10; (2) Answer this question - were you alone for any of those experiences? My guess is that the answer for most people would be no for all of them. Worst experiences - probably the same. Communities, friend groups, whatever, make life good (or miserable according to the person who coined the phrase "hell is other people").

Being alone is easy but not fun. Being with people can be more difficult and more work (more views to take into account, more compromise, more diapers to change, more milk to buy) but is almost always more fun.

Sources of happiness:
Belonging to a community
Spending money to create memories
Giving to others

Forgot which book I read this in but they were multiple studies which proved this.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 14, 2016 - 4:58pm.

njtosd wrote:
millennial wrote:
Balboa_Again wrote:
Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I'm mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.

To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.

It's funny because I'm exactly the same way, whereas I don't take huge risks, but I always attribute it to growing up with parents who were upper middle class. I sometimes wish I had that "nothing to lose" mentality.

Although my wife doesn't believe it, I feel that communities are very important to happiness. I think I'm going to add that to my list of things to teach my children.

This is an easy one: (1) Name the top three fun memories you have, or even the top 10; (2) Answer this question - were you alone for any of those experiences? My guess is that the answer for most people would be no for all of them. Worst experiences - probably the same. Communities, friend groups, whatever, make life good (or miserable according to the person who coined the phrase "hell is other people").

Being alone is easy but not fun. Being with people can be more difficult and more work (more views to take into account, more compromise, more diapers to change, more milk to buy) but is almost always more fun.

one of my happiest memories was a long solo bike trip.

Submitted by Balboa on October 16, 2016 - 9:19am.

scaredyclassic wrote:

one of my happiest memories was a long solo bike trip.

One of my best moments was a very solitary enjoyment, even though I wasn't alone. Sunrise on top of a temple in Tikal in Guatemala -- even my fellow tourists couldn't ruin it. :)

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 16, 2016 - 10:31am.

not sure i learned how to be a man.

Submitted by njtosd on October 16, 2016 - 1:30pm.

Balboa wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:

one of my happiest memories was a long solo bike trip.

One of my best moments was a very solitary enjoyment, even though I wasn't alone. Sunrise on top of a temple in Tikal in Guatemala -- even my fellow tourists couldn't ruin it. :)

The simple presence of other people often enhances the experience. Not sure why. I am currently taking a Krav Maga fitness class. I began to think that I could do at least some of it alone, and that would be more convenient, but it wouldn't be as much fun. And no, I'm not to the point where we actually try to work with partners, just bags.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 16, 2016 - 3:22pm.

agreed. id like to join a bowling league. not sure i can consistently break 100 tho.

i do have my own bowling shoes now tho.

Submitted by La Jolla Renter on October 17, 2016 - 9:49am.

millennial wrote:
La Jolla Renter wrote:
Not really, but they were amazingly supportive while I figured it out myself. Like most older Americans, I ran the streets til dark all through elementary school, (no homework) ran the streets in high school a lot later and didn't study much. And somehow seem a lot smarter then all the millennials I've met that have hours of homework every night from K-12.

I'm going to find out what the heck is going on in our schools when mine start next year.

As a millennial, I'm going to ignore your idiotic remark regarding millennials, since it's a worthless statement and has no real substance behind it. Also since you feel this way, maybe you should let your kids run in the dark through all of elementary school. Meanwhile, my three kids will be using the time wisely so they can set themselves up for later in life.

Personally my parents were like yours and although I had a lot of fun growing up, I really feel like my time would have been better spent elsewhere.

Just stating my slightly exaggerated opinion to express a point that "millennials" have/had more homework than ever and overall, they may even be less smart. So, again IMO, our education system is broken.

My point was certainly not to promote that we should ditch homework and let kids run wild once again. That world/society is a thing of the past.

As for my kids, they are/will be amazingly happy, wicked smart and absolutely most important, be able to see the forest thought trees (or "for" the trees depending upon how you like it). Which I think is a big struggle for millennials.

Submitted by La Jolla Renter on October 17, 2016 - 10:03am.

Anyone watch: Surfwise, a documentary on netflix?

I watched it last week. Bizarre and very thought provoking on countless levels. (A great election distraction)

Doug Pray's documentary delves into the often inspiring, sometimes shocking life of 85-year-old Dorian "Doc" Paskowitz, a renowned surfer, surf camp owner, doctor and sex guru who, together with his wife, brought up nine children. Paskowitz raised his family in a camper on the beach, home-schooling them and requiring them to follow a strict lifestyle regimen. Now, his grown children speak out about how their unique upbringing affected them.

Submitted by millennial on October 17, 2016 - 10:44am.

La Jolla Renter wrote:

Just stating my slightly exaggerated opinion to express a point that "millennials" have/had more homework than ever and overall, they may even be less smart. So, again IMO, our education system is broken.

My point was certainly not to promote that we should ditch homework and let kids run wild once again. That world/society is a thing of the past.

As for my kids, they are/will be amazingly happy, wicked smart and absolutely most important, be able to see the forest thought trees (or "for" the trees depending upon how you like it). Which I think is a big struggle for millennials.

Why use exaggerations to say this? Is this because you're talking out of your ass?

Here is an interesting video on Ted Talk.

https://www.ted.com/talks/james_flynn_wh...

Next time show me some proof behind your false remarks. You feel kids from the Millennial Generation had more homework and are equal to or not as smart as your generation. Is this IQ/EQ, how do you define "smart"?

Regarding your kids, I am very happy that you don't let them roam the streets, since I wouldn't want to hit them in unlit areas. I don't know if you require your kids to do their school work, but it sounds like you probably don't since you believe that there is an inverse correlation between these two variables.

You think that Millenials struggle with seeing the big picture, yet we continue to utilize technologies in ways people never thought of. People from older generations like Asimov and Dick envisioned some of these things, but we are building them and making them realities. We took old services like jitneys and made them into Uber employing many more thousands. We also helped create manless space shuttles and make the world smaller using social media. Is this not big picture enough for you? Please explain.

Submitted by La Jolla Renter on October 17, 2016 - 11:31am.

Thanks for proving my point. :)

Submitted by millennial on October 17, 2016 - 1:55pm.

La Jolla Renter wrote:
Thanks for proving my point. :)

No. Thanks for proving mine :D

Submitted by bearishgurl on October 17, 2016 - 12:10pm.

millennial wrote:
La Jolla Renter wrote:

Just stating my slightly exaggerated opinion to express a point that "millennials" have/had more homework than ever and overall, they may even be less smart. So, again IMO, our education system is broken.

My point was certainly not to promote that we should ditch homework and let kids run wild once again. That world/society is a thing of the past.

As for my kids, they are/will be amazingly happy, wicked smart and absolutely most important, be able to see the forest thought trees (or "for" the trees depending upon how you like it). Which I think is a big struggle for millennials.

Why use exaggerations to say this? Is this because you're talking out of your ass?

Here is an interesting video on Ted Talk.

https://www.ted.com/talks/james_flynn_wh...

Next time show me some proof behind your false remarks. You feel kids from the Millennial Generation had more homework and are equal to or not as smart as your generation. Is this IQ/EQ, how do you define "smart"?

Regarding your kids, I am very happy that you don't let them roam the streets, since I wouldn't want to hit them in unlit areas. I don't know if you require your kids to do their school work, but it sounds like you probably don't. You think that Millenials struggle with seeing the big picture, yet we continue to utilize technologies in ways people never thought of.

If LJRenter means what I think he means, he is discussing the vast majority of millenials who refuse to pay their dues and bide their time. They want everything NOW or they feel like a failure. Most of them must have a late model or new vehicle and a $600-$800+ smart phone (+ the required monthly service for it) before they can begin thinking about paying for a roof over their heads. Hence, the millions of "basement dwellers" that Clinton mentioned in front of a group of her donors. They're still in their parent(s) basement in their late 20's/early '30's because they couldn't make any sacrifices to their lifestyles to get thru college and thus borrowed way too much in student loans to supplement at least four years of living expenses while a (lowly) undergrad and are now whining about having to pay the piper. This same group is extremely picky about where they are willing to live and where they are willing to work. When they finally DO land a decent FT job in the locale of their choice (or close to it), they can't "settle" for a well-used home when they finally qualify to get a mortgage, they can't "settle" for older electronics donated to them to set up their first household and can't "settle" for used furnishings and household items donated to them. Everything must be *new* and many millenials quit decent, FT jobs which don't promote them fast enough for their liking and/or allow them to be absent from the workplace periodically (telecommuting, work from home and leaves of absence) enough to their liking. They don't have the patience or wherewithal to work a whole year after beginning a FT job to earn a 2-week vacation.

Even though they didn't take out student loans, My kids are no exception to the above and that is why they don't have savings for a downpayment in spite of making an excellent salary ... even for well over a decade!

In short, millenials want to live with the level of security and amenities their 45-65 year old parents enjoy straight out of the gate of life and will "settle" for nothing less.

Witness the high competition for rentals in choice CA cities by prospective tenants who ostensibly make enough money to qualify for a mortgage but can't because they have too much debt. They did it to themselves.

http://www.zillow.com/blog/most-competit...

For example, Boomers . . . like me (yes, both semi-"professionals" employed FT at the time) bought a duplex on the likes of 47th Street in SD in our early 20's for just over $70K and moved in one side and rented out the other side. We had 3 well-used vehicles between us (with 75-125K miles on them) and furnished our living/dining room combo with $10 bean bag chairs, macrame pot hangers received as gifts, a $39.99 hi-back 5-pc plastic dinette and "cast-off" 2 x 12" unpainted boards and cinder blocks to hold my HS turntable and receiver and my spouse's wood speakers. We bought used appliances from a friend who was moving out of state and my mom gave us her old portable B/W TV which we used for over 10 more years ... with "rabbit ears." We even got free cat furniture (used) and recarpeted some of it!

Our bdrm furniture was also well-used, scratched (even gouged) and needed refinishing as was my short bookshelf which I painted green in HS, lol.

There is NO WAY IN H@LL ANY millenial would live like the above .... ESPecially on carpet that a previous owner installed or use an older stove, frig or dishwasher that existed in the home they just bought! Eeeew! They feel that if the home they just bought is more than 15 years old, it needs to be completely "updated" and perfect before they move a stick of furniture in, lol). It never occurs to them to just spend a day cleaning the older (still functional) appls!

Several property purchases later (in SD County), I am "financially secure."

I have a "failure-to-save-$$-towards-a-downpayment" convo with my kid(s) almost every time I see them (usually decked out in designer clothing and sporting designer accessories, an $800 - $100 iphone, and, of course, driving a late-model vehicle).

I've come to the conclusion that the bulk of (CA) millenials don't really want to own a home .... certainly not bad enough to pay down their accumulated debt (much of it left over from their "living large" college years) in order to qualify for a mortgage. We boomers had very little in the way of credit cards at our disposal back then (and they certainly did not have more than a few hundred in credit limits) and debit cards did not exist. Thus, we were used to spending "real cash greenbacks" for things as well as vehicles (nearly always used, from an individual), obviously making our generation much more conscious of our spending.

Submitted by Balboa_Again on October 17, 2016 - 12:40pm.

Bears got a great team this year. They're gonna go all the way.

Submitted by millennial on October 17, 2016 - 1:54pm.

Balboa_Again wrote:
Bears got a great team this year. They're gonna go all the way.

You're crazy! They just got beat by the Jags. Maybe the only thing they got going is that Cutler is out.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 17, 2016 - 2:27pm.

Some things to consider:

Housing is now a lot more expensive as a proportion of income.

I know a boomer who grew up in rural Pennsylvania without plumbing. We have higher standards now.

Boomers created stupid zoning that is causing sprawl and expensive housing.

Millenials also like to live in more expensive urban areas.

Submitted by millennial on October 17, 2016 - 3:13pm.

bearishgurl wrote:
If LJRenter means what I think he means, he is discussing the vast majority of millenials who refuse to pay their dues and bide their time. They want everything NOW or they feel like a failure.

Really? You speaking for LJR now? Are you really LJR in disguise? What I think is that you are trying to use this as a way to express your real opinions, just like many Trump voters are using him as a way to feel better at night for being ignorant. He said none of that.

I really think that LJR was overreacting to elicit a response. What he's trying to say is that kids these days (not sure if he really means millennials) are studying too hard and spending too much time doing homework that they are equal to, or dumber than previous generations. Also that they can't see big picture...except his kids of course.

bearishgurl wrote:

Most of them must have a late model or new vehicle and a $600-$800+ smart phone (+ the required monthly service for it) before they can begin thinking about paying for a roof over their heads.

Where do you get this info? Is this from you observations at the tax assessor office? You do realize that all these things you discuss actually refer to the Baby Boomer Generation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomers

Anyways, I'm fine with people getting a smartphone; it's a fantastic device. I can take a taxi home after a night out, I can trade my stocks, people can find dates etc.. If I wasn't married with 3 kids I wouldn't even think about owning a personal residence. To tell you the truth, owning a personal residence kinda sucks. I would much rather put it into investments that generate cash flow, or even spend it taking a trip to the moon. If I'm not going to make money off of it, I would rather create fantastic memories.

bearishgurl wrote:

Hence, the millions of "basement dwellers" that Clinton mentioned in front of a group of her donors. They're still in their parent(s) basement in their late 20's/early '30's because they couldn't make any sacrifices to their lifestyles to get thru college and thus borrowed way too much in student loans to supplement at least four years of living expenses while a (lowly) undergrad and are now whining about having to pay the piper.

There are a lot of reasons why our generation don't own homes themselves. The first being that housing prices have gone up significantly especially compared to the pay of entry level jobs. You do realize that this doesn't affect just America, but many other countries such as Korea and Japan this has been the norm for quite a while. Any area with a long recession and expensive housing will have this; it's not a product of our generation. Secondly, student loan debt is due to the increase in the price of college. For instance, my father was able to go to an in-state college in California for free. This college now would cost $56k over 4 years for in-state tuition. If you lived out of state it's now over $160k. I don't think it's fair for you to throw this on us, when you got your college for free.

bearishgurl wrote:
This same group is extremely picky about where they are willing to live and where they are willing to work. When they finally DO land a decent FT job in the locale of their choice (or close to it), they can't "settle" for a well-used home when they finally qualify to get a mortgage, they can't "settle" for older electronics donated to them to set up their first household and can't "settle" for used furnishings and household items donated to them.

I don't know if this relates to "millennials", or just people in general. I really think that there have always been early adopters who want the newest and greatest. I'm sure there are a lot of Boomers driving the fanciest and newest Porsches that just came out. I watched Wall Street and Ferris Bueller's from your generation. Those guys liked to drive fancy cars too.

bearishgurl wrote:
Everything must be *new* and many millenials quit decent, FT jobs which don't promote them fast enough for their liking and/or allow them to be absent from the workplace periodically (telecommuting, work from home and leaves of absence) enough to their liking.

You're probably right about this. I think that the numerous recessions and layoffs we've went through shows that there is no loyalty between employer and employee anymore. No job is 100% safe...even government jobs. We are the generation where people can't retire with a pension and be with one company anymore. We continuously evolve professionally and our loyalties lie with our family and our friends and not with the company.

bearishgurl wrote:

Witness the high competition for rentals in choice CA cities by prospective tenants who ostensibly make enough money to qualify for a mortgage but can't because they have too much debt. They did it to themselves.

Stupid irresponsible doctor/lawyer for taking out that student loan. They should've just worked at McDonalds for the rest of their lives so they can one day get a house!! Give me a break...those debts will go down from excess cash flow and one day they will be able to buy a house.

bearishgurl wrote:

For example, Boomers . . . like me (yes, both semi-"professionals" employed FT at the time) bought a duplex on the likes of 47th Street in SD in our early 20's for just over $70K and moved in one side and rented out the other side...

What is a semi-professional? Is that a Boomer word for a person with a full time job? I don't consider myself a semi-pro, or a professional but hold a full-time job. However I consider my wife and friends professionals, since they have CPA, JD's and MD's.

$70k for a town-home! Wow are you sure that was in SD, I'm going to pay more than that for my Tesla.

bearishgurl wrote:

There is NO WAY IN H@LL ANY millenial would live like the above .... ESPecially on carpet that a previous owner installed or use an older stove, frig or dishwasher that existed in the home they just bought! Eeeew! They feel that if the home they just bought is more than 15 years old, it needs to be completely "updated" and perfect before they move a stick of furniture in, lol).

Well after working for 15-20 years and making good money, why would we deal with any of that? Sounds kind of ridiculous for a 30-40 year old to be living like a college kid. Great for you that you did it. You should pat yourself on the back for that.

bearishgurl wrote:

I've come to the conclusion that the bulk of (CA) millenials don't really want to own a home .... certainly not bad enough to pay down their accumulated debt (much of it left over from their "living large" college years.
)

Discussed this above.

bearishgurl wrote:
We boomers had very little in the way of credit cards at our disposal back then (and they certainly did not have more than a few hundred in credit limits) and debit cards did not exist. Thus, we were used to spending "real cash greenbacks" for things as well as vehicles (nearly always used, from an individual), obviously making our generation much more conscious of our spending.

You do realize that expansionary policies implemented during your generation and followed by the rest of your boomer presidents created a lot of this. Creation of ARM's and all this creative financing. The advent of credit cards were all done during your time.

Submitted by Balboa_Again on October 17, 2016 - 3:22pm.

millennial wrote:
Balboa_Again wrote:
Bears got a great team this year. They're gonna go all the way.

You're crazy! They just got beat by the Jags. Maybe the only thing they got going is that Cutler is out.

I stand by my statement as both a quote from "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" and "Not the Craziest Post In The Thread Even If I Was Contemplating Actual Team Prospects."

Submitted by millennial on October 17, 2016 - 3:36pm.

Balboa_Again wrote:
I stand by my statement as both a quote from "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" and "Not the Craziest Post In The Thread Even If I Was Contemplating Actual Team Prospects."

I'll second that.

Submitted by bearishgurl on October 17, 2016 - 4:06pm.

millenial, I was discussing TWO UNITS (i.e. duplex) for $70K, each ~1000 sf with their own garage! They were in an urban, long-ago developed area. Yes . . . IN SD proper.

The millenials with big student loan payments today didn't ALL become "professionals." In many cases, most of their student-loan proceeds was used to pay rent for luxury apts, dine out often and visit bars and salons regularly (esp if they were in-state students enrolled in their home-state universities and thus had low tuition and fees). I know this for a fact. In some cases, the student who left college with a big monthly SL payment didn't even graduate (or graduated in a field which has a dearth of jobs, especially WHERE they want to reside).

I was discussing FIRST TIME homebuyers ("FTB"'s) who need to first spend $10-$50K (most or all on "credit," since the bulk of their savings was just spent on a downpayment) "updating" a house they just bought before they ever move a stick of furniture in . . . NOT "40-year olds." They can't possibly live with anything already installed in the home and change it out room by room as they can comfortably afford to. This is what the boomers did. Of course, there wasn't the proliferation of new subdivisions to choose from for boomers because Community Facilities Districts (which use MR bonds to pay for new infrastructure) had not yet been formed in SD County.

And ARMS were actually GREAT mortgages to have until the sub-prime boom beginning in 2004 when all the GOOD things about them were eliminated and all the EXOTIC "don't ask/don't tell" provisions were added to them!

Boomers didn't think of buying a home only if they had kids. Boomers thought of buying a home as an investment (to use to climb the "homebuying ladder" to a better home later) and to create net worth. Having kids had nothing to do with it.

Today's FTB's don't want the "starter home" that was "good enough" for us. They want a bigger, more modern home exactly in their area of choice (within reason) or they will continue renting . . . that is, until they are priced out of rentals in their "choice" area. Then they'll move into their 2nd and 3rd choice areas until their lives become unbearable with their daily commute. They don't WANT the stability of owning a more centrally-located home where they would have a short commute to a variety of job centers. Like you said, not if it interferes with saving their downpayment for a Tesla :=0

Submitted by bearishgurl on October 17, 2016 - 4:10pm.

Millenials are the "instant gratification" generation.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 17, 2016 - 4:31pm.

BG, i think millennial women are buying houses on their own in greater number. Men, not as much.

I recall reading that somewhere. correct me if I'm wrong

BTW, i only buy rental condos close to the city. I always remodel in polished urban Euro style (Ikea kitchens with waterfall counters). I have great millennial tenants with good jobs. It's a great niche because it's hard to find nice and new near the city.
I don't mind sharing my "secret" because the remodel and the tenant search are the hardest part so I'm not afraid of competition.

Submitted by millennial on October 17, 2016 - 5:07pm.

bearishgurl wrote:

The millenials with big student loan payments today didn't ALL become "professionals." In many cases, most of their student-loan proceeds was used to pay rent for luxury apts, dine out often and visit bars and salons regularly (esp if they were in-state students enrolled in their home-state universities and thus had low tuition and fees). I know this for a fact.

Well I'm sure there are some of these people...me included. I used my student loan money to invest in some Apple stock, pay for beers, and also to pay for housing. Did 4-5 years of this lifestyle create a burden that I couldn't overcome? Nope. Now would 160k of student loans to pay for 4 years at Berkley...probably. Lucky dad put aside money in the MET (Michigan Educational Trust) so I could get my tuition covered for free. Many of my classmates with "me gen" parents, not so much.

bearishgurl wrote:

In some cases, the student who left college with a big monthly SL payment didn't even graduate (or graduated in a field which has a dearth of jobs, especially WHERE they want to reside).

Yes. I learned from my dad...do not graduate in Psychology. Thank god college was free for him.

bearishgurl wrote:
I was discussing FIRST TIME homebuyers ("FTB"'s) who need to first spend $10-$50K (most or all on "credit," since the bulk of their savings was just spent on a downpayment) "updating" a house they just bought before they ever move a stick of furniture in . . . NOT "40-year olds."

Well I'm a FTB and just paid for carpeting, and furniture on credit. Why would I spend money in the bank to buy furniture when the stores will give me 0% financing for 3-5 years? Even though the spread is miniscule, it wouldn't make sense to use the money in the bank. I guess the alternative is to live with a ratty couch and carpets that someone might have puked/pooped on, but if my wife and I can easily pay for it; why would I want to?

bearishgurl wrote:
Boomers didn't think of buying a home only if they had kids. Boomers thought of buying a home as an investment (to use to climb the "homebuying ladder" to a better home later) and to create net worth. Having kids had nothing to do with it.

Well after we saw numerous boom and bust cycles I guess we don't think of personal residences as logical investments; especially when I can get greater ROI's on MFR's, or many other things.

bearishgurl wrote:
Today's FTB's don't want the "starter home" that was "good enough" for us. They want a bigger, more modern home exactly in their area of choice (within reason) or they will continue renting . . . that is, until they are priced out of rentals in their "choice" area. Then they'll move into their 2nd and 3rd choice areas until their lives become unbearable with their daily commute.

#1. Like I said, I just bought my first and probably last home. Of course I want it to be in a nice area for my children. Would I have continued renting if I had no children - Hell yes!! Personally I loved the flexibility with renting, and would rather use my excess cash flow for investments.
#2. Regarding the rest of the stuff, don't most people (not just millennials) do the same thing? I see and work with a lot of Boomers driving from Temecula and Murrieta so they can have a 4,000sf home. This is in contrast to others my age who would shoot themselves in the head before doing that.

bearishgurl wrote:
They don't WANT the stability of owning a more centrally-located home where they would have a short commute to a variety of job centers. Like you said, not if it interferes with saving their downpayment for a Tesla :=0

Well my commute is 20-25 minutes each way to the office, which is more than bearable for me. I also own a large enough home to house a family of 5 comfortable and also have enough cash flow to pay for a Tesla among numerous other things. Again I have the cash to pay for it, but why pay cash when I can finance it at 1.60%?

Submitted by millennial on October 17, 2016 - 5:00pm.

bearishgurl wrote:
Millenials are the "instant gratification" generation.

"We are the take advantage of low interest rates" generation!

Submitted by millennial on October 17, 2016 - 5:08pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
BG, i think millennial women are buying houses on their own in greater number. Men, not as much.

I recall reading that somewhere. correct me if I'm wrong

BTW, i only buy rental condos close to the city. I always remodel in polished urban Euro style (Ikea kitchens with waterfall counters). I have great millennial tenants with good jobs. It's a great niche because it's hard to find nice and new near the city.
I don't mind sharing my "secret" because the remodel and the tenant search are the hardest part so I'm not afraid of competition.

Flyer that is a very smart idea and thankfully there are many areas here to choose from. You have Downtown, MV, MM, and UTC. As long as it's nice, modern and clean people will always pay a premium. All those areas have some sketch parts, but for the most part have some part of the demographic who are Millennial and educated.

Submitted by La Jolla Renter on October 18, 2016 - 7:54am.

millennial wrote:
bearishgurl wrote:
Millenials are the "instant gratification" generation.

"We are the take advantage of low interest rates" generation!

Specifically how are they doing that?

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 18, 2016 - 11:43am.

La Jolla Renter wrote:
millennial wrote:
bearishgurl wrote:
Millenials are the "instant gratification" generation.

"We are the take advantage of low interest rates" generation!

Specifically how are they doing that?

I was reading that there's too much debt out in the economy. But debt equals savings chasing low returns. Maybe when the boomers start passing away and the younger generations spend the money, growth rates will improve.

Submitted by bearishgurl on October 18, 2016 - 12:18pm.

La Jolla Renter wrote:
millennial wrote:
bearishgurl wrote:
Millenials are the "instant gratification" generation.

"We are the take advantage of low interest rates" generation!

Specifically how are they doing that?

Well, in yamashi/millenial's defense, he's right about all the "buy-now/pay-at-0%-per-month-for-x months" offers for consumer goods today. Boomers didn't have that option when they needed things (were in their prime consuming years). That's why most of them just took castoffs from friends/relatives and items from the classified ads and garage sales when they needed something. I even bought appliances for my rental unit used (and kept replacing them with more used appls when they broke). Auto loans for young people back then (without established credit on "TRW") had a 15-24% interest rate. My $65K mortgage on that duplex was $774 month (P&I only) and that was a "special" interest rate backed by a state program to encourage investing in certain urban "targeted" areas. Of course, that didn't include property taxes or insurance. My rental unit initially rented for $515 month and was renting for $650 month 8 years later (when we sold the property). The prevailing FHA rate at the time we purchased it was about 15.5%, IIRC (and that was lower that the conventional mortgage interest rate). Boomers really didn't have the option of "shopping in areas well above their means" like millenials do today. The only reason millenials such as yamashi were able to buy the ONE home that they will raise their family in for the duration of their minority for their first home was due to mortgage interest rates of the past decade-plus being the lowest in the history of the mortgage industry. Add to that a proliferation of outlying areas to shop in due to massive overbuilding (with the attendant freeway construction and widening) in San Diego County in the past 20+ years and these two conditions created the most favorable homebuying climate AND largest choice in history for SD homebuyers.

The only drawback I've seen to the SD residential RE market of the last 8 years or so is the dearth of "fixers" to buy due to organized flipper teams and REITS buying most of them up for resale, and to a larger extent, to retain for buy-and-hold investments in recent years. It would be very hard for Mr and Ms BG (who had tools and a large pickup and trailer and were handy and hard workers) to buy a fixer today because they needed a mortgage to do so and the vast majority of fixers today sell for all cash. Because of this, today's FTB (and STB/TTB) must rely solely on their W-2 incomes to increase their net worth. Meaning, they must depend on someone else to offer them the opportunities (AND retain them) instead of relying on themselves to create net worth.

However, the vast majority of millenials today wouldn't even step onto the lot of a fixer, let alone consider buying it. The "Eww factor" is too much for them so the concept of accumulating "sweat equity" is not palatable to this group. Not only that, most of them were not taught to use power tools or landscaping equipment while growing up .... or how to pull and back in a flatbed trailer after learning to drive, or (as in the case with my kids), the offers were made to teach them but they refused to learn, citing they were "too busy." We've got a whole generation out there who has been preoccupied exercising with their thumbs all of their lives and of whom a good portion don't even know how to work laundry machines! They're virtually helpless in the "survival skill" dept :=0

I hope all the millenials get GREAT JOBS in the coming years and SAVE THEIR EARNINGS because they will really have no other way to create true net worth for their retirements (except for the perilously fickle stock market). Nor will they be eligible for anywhere near the level of pensions that their predecessors are collecting (excepting career military personnel). Unlike the boomers, the vast majority of millenials will have no pension at all.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 18, 2016 - 1:46pm.

BG, only 5% of cars sold are stick shift anymore. Did your kids learn?

http://www.fox13news.com/consumer/212067...

Submitted by La Jolla Renter on October 18, 2016 - 2:11pm.

bearishgurl wrote:
Well, in yamashi/millenial's defense, he's right about all the "buy-now/pay-at-0%-per-month-for-x months" offers for consumer goods today.

Problem #342 with Millennials - they don't understand many basic rules of economics/common sense... there is no free lunch.

Millennial, someone (fellow millennials) is paying interest on that stuff. Even if you or a very few of you are not.

And if all millennials are so savvy/lucky to pay their bill off on time, then guess where prices go.