Not really, but they were Not really, but they were amazingly supportive while I figured it out myself. Like most older Americans, I ran the streets til dark all through elementary school, (no homework) ran the streets in high school a lot later and didn’t study much. And somehow seem a lot smarter then all the millennials I’ve met that have hours of homework every night from K-12.
I’m going to find out what the heck is going on in our schools when mine start next year.
no_such_reality
October 10, 2016 @
6:05 AM
LJR. Oh yea you’re going to LJR. Oh yea you’re going to find out…
Seriously, mine started last year, total eye opener. Honestly, the major drumbeats of both sides are all correct. Next year, our school district decided to move the year start up one week earlier, we will be a solid two weeks before Labor Day, the justification? Give the kids more time to prepare for AP and SAT tests.
FlyerInHi
October 10, 2016 @
10:50 AM
NSR, when I went to school NSR, when I went to school in Europe, I went to class half day Saturday. No complaints.
If some parents make their kids study harder, isn’t that teaching them endurance and making sacrifices in life, playing by the rules and becoming excellent?
bobby
October 10, 2016 @
1:33 PM
I think a lot of folks on I think a lot of folks on this site would say yes. This site was originally for skeptics, those who did not believe the housing propaganda of the aughts. There will be sampling bias.
as for me, didn’t have a choice. growing up on welfare means you have to rely on yourself once you are of voting age. So yes.
moneymaker
October 10, 2016 @
9:04 PM
bobby I am somewhat surprised bobby I am somewhat surprised that your parents had the foresight to teach you how to be self sufficient when they didn’t seem to be, so I’m not saying are you successful in life but did your parents instill that success in you, and not by being a bad example that would not really count. My mom was on a form of welfare (deseret) which is the Mormon church helping out, which I applaud them for as I don’t know that that happens in the other churches as much. She did not teach me how to balance a check book or the evils of credit cards or how to write a business plan. Yet my siblings and I are all doing well now, but not because of parents.
bobby
October 11, 2016 @
5:44 PM
moneymaker wrote:bobby I am [quote=moneymaker]bobby I am somewhat surprised that your parents had the foresight to teach you how to be self sufficient when they didn’t seem to be, so I’m not saying are you successful in life but did your parents instill that success in you, and not by being a bad example that would not really count. My mom was on a form of welfare (deseret) which is the Mormon church helping out, which I applaud them for as I don’t know that that happens in the other churches as much. She did not teach me how to balance a check book or the evils of credit cards or how to write a business plan. Yet my siblings and I are all doing well now, but not because of parents.[/quote]
well… it’s a little more complicated than that.
we immigrated here from war-torn country. Father not in picture so welfare was only way to survive. luckily mother was responsible in raising us and stressed education so we all turned out OK.
NotCranky
October 11, 2016 @
5:48 PM
I think I would be really I think I would be really good at being homeless. If it were only not so taboo and
dangerous.
scaredyclassic
October 12, 2016 @
12:55 PM
Blogstar wrote:I think I [quote=Blogstar]I think I would be really good at being homeless. If it were only not so taboo and
dangerous.[/quote]
much easier with a van.
moneymaker
October 11, 2016 @
8:18 PM
Glad to hear that bobby! Just Glad to hear that bobby! Just found out today that my half brother is going to be staying in jail for a while, so guess he didn’t learn any valuable lessons from my dad.
scaredyclassic
October 12, 2016 @
12:54 PM
my dad seemed to hate work so my dad seemed to hate work so much it made me very hesitant to get a f/t job.
njtosd
October 11, 2016 @
12:21 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:NSR, when I [quote=FlyerInHi]NSR, when I went to school in Europe, I went to class half day Saturday. No complaints.
If some parents make their kids study harder, isn’t that teaching them endurance and making sacrifices in life, playing by the rules and becoming excellent?[/quote]
Did you get any time off on Wednesday? Many schools in Catholic countries had shortened days on Wednesday’s to make time for religious education (at least this is what I’ve been told).
So let’s say you spend a zillion hours to become “excellent” and then spend one hour being excellent before you die. Is that a good idea? If not, what is the right balance? No parent doubts the importance of study, endurance or sacrifice. The question, as with everything, is: when have you done enough? How much sacrifice is too much? And what if you wake up at 45 and decide you’ve wasted your time?
Good parents want their kids to be happy and healthy and safe. How you get there is the subject of some debate.
FlyerInHi
October 12, 2016 @
1:34 PM
njtosd wrote:FlyerInHi [quote=njtosd][quote=FlyerInHi]NSR, when I went to school in Europe, I went to class half day Saturday. No complaints.
If some parents make their kids study harder, isn’t that teaching them endurance and making sacrifices in life, playing by the rules and becoming excellent?[/quote]
Did you get any time off on Wednesday? Many schools in Catholic countries had shortened days on Wednesday’s to make time for religious education (at least this is what I’ve been told).
So let’s say you spend a zillion hours to become “excellent” and then spend one hour being excellent before you die. Is that a good idea? If not, what is the right balance? No parent doubts the importance of study, endurance or sacrifice. The question, as with everything, is: when have you done enough? How much sacrifice is too much? And what if you wake up at 45 and decide you’ve wasted your time?
Good parents want their kids to be happy and healthy and safe. How you get there is the subject of some debate.[/quote]
njtosd, I’m playing the devil’s advocate a little bit.
Did you watch the Frontline documentary on Trump and Clinton? I’m sure the stories are exaggerated but they were driven.
millennial
October 11, 2016 @
9:34 AM
La Jolla Renter wrote:Not [quote=La Jolla Renter]Not really, but they were amazingly supportive while I figured it out myself. Like most older Americans, I ran the streets til dark all through elementary school, (no homework) ran the streets in high school a lot later and didn’t study much. And somehow seem a lot smarter then all the millennials I’ve met that have hours of homework every night from K-12.
I’m going to find out what the heck is going on in our schools when mine start next year.[/quote]
As a millennial, I’m going to ignore your idiotic remark regarding millennials, since it’s a worthless statement and has no real substance behind it. Also since you feel this way, maybe you should let your kids run in the dark through all of elementary school. Meanwhile, my three kids will be using the time wisely so they can set themselves up for later in life.
Personally my parents were like yours and although I had a lot of fun growing up, I really feel like my time would have been better spent elsewhere.
La Jolla Renter
October 17, 2016 @
9:49 AM
millennial wrote:La Jolla [quote=millennial][quote=La Jolla Renter]Not really, but they were amazingly supportive while I figured it out myself. Like most older Americans, I ran the streets til dark all through elementary school, (no homework) ran the streets in high school a lot later and didn’t study much. And somehow seem a lot smarter then all the millennials I’ve met that have hours of homework every night from K-12.
I’m going to find out what the heck is going on in our schools when mine start next year.[/quote]
As a millennial, I’m going to ignore your idiotic remark regarding millennials, since it’s a worthless statement and has no real substance behind it. Also since you feel this way, maybe you should let your kids run in the dark through all of elementary school. Meanwhile, my three kids will be using the time wisely so they can set themselves up for later in life.
Personally my parents were like yours and although I had a lot of fun growing up, I really feel like my time would have been better spent elsewhere.[/quote]
Just stating my slightly exaggerated opinion to express a point that “millennials” have/had more homework than ever and overall, they may even be less smart. So, again IMO, our education system is broken.
My point was certainly not to promote that we should ditch homework and let kids run wild once again. That world/society is a thing of the past.
As for my kids, they are/will be amazingly happy, wicked smart and absolutely most important, be able to see the forest thought trees (or “for” the trees depending upon how you like it). Which I think is a big struggle for millennials.
millennial
October 17, 2016 @
10:44 AM
La Jolla Renter wrote:
Just [quote=La Jolla Renter]
Just stating my slightly exaggerated opinion to express a point that “millennials” have/had more homework than ever and overall, they may even be less smart. So, again IMO, our education system is broken.
My point was certainly not to promote that we should ditch homework and let kids run wild once again. That world/society is a thing of the past.
As for my kids, they are/will be amazingly happy, wicked smart and absolutely most important, be able to see the forest thought trees (or “for” the trees depending upon how you like it). Which I think is a big struggle for millennials.[/quote]
Why use exaggerations to say this? Is this because you’re talking out of your ass?
Next time show me some proof behind your false remarks. You feel kids from the Millennial Generation had more homework and are equal to or not as smart as your generation. Is this IQ/EQ, how do you define “smart”?
Regarding your kids, I am very happy that you don’t let them roam the streets, since I wouldn’t want to hit them in unlit areas. I don’t know if you require your kids to do their school work, but it sounds like you probably don’t since you believe that there is an inverse correlation between these two variables.
You think that Millenials struggle with seeing the big picture, yet we continue to utilize technologies in ways people never thought of. People from older generations like Asimov and Dick envisioned some of these things, but we are building them and making them realities. We took old services like jitneys and made them into Uber employing many more thousands. We also helped create manless space shuttles and make the world smaller using social media. Is this not big picture enough for you? Please explain.
La Jolla Renter
October 17, 2016 @
11:31 AM
Thanks for proving my point. Thanks for proving my point. 🙂
millennial
October 17, 2016 @
1:55 PM
La Jolla Renter wrote:Thanks [quote=La Jolla Renter]Thanks for proving my point. :)[/quote]
No. Thanks for proving mine 😀
bearishgurl
October 17, 2016 @
12:10 PM
millennial wrote:La Jolla [quote=millennial][quote=La Jolla Renter]
Just stating my slightly exaggerated opinion to express a point that “millennials” have/had more homework than ever and overall, they may even be less smart. So, again IMO, our education system is broken.
My point was certainly not to promote that we should ditch homework and let kids run wild once again. That world/society is a thing of the past.
As for my kids, they are/will be amazingly happy, wicked smart and absolutely most important, be able to see the forest thought trees (or “for” the trees depending upon how you like it). Which I think is a big struggle for millennials.[/quote]
Why use exaggerations to say this? Is this because you’re talking out of your ass?
Next time show me some proof behind your false remarks. You feel kids from the Millennial Generation had more homework and are equal to or not as smart as your generation. Is this IQ/EQ, how do you define “smart”?
Regarding your kids, I am very happy that you don’t let them roam the streets, since I wouldn’t want to hit them in unlit areas. I don’t know if you require your kids to do their school work, but it sounds like you probably don’t. You think that Millenials struggle with seeing the big picture, yet we continue to utilize technologies in ways people never thought of.[/quote]If LJRenter means what I think he means, he is discussing the vast majority of millenials who refuse to pay their dues and bide their time. They want everything NOW or they feel like a failure. Most of them must have a late model or new vehicle and a $600-$800+ smart phone (+ the required monthly service for it) before they can begin thinking about paying for a roof over their heads. Hence, the millions of “basement dwellers” that Clinton mentioned in front of a group of her donors. They’re still in their parent(s) basement in their late 20’s/early ’30’s because they couldn’t make any sacrifices to their lifestyles to get thru college and thus borrowed way too much in student loans to supplement at least four years of living expenses while a (lowly) undergrad and are now whining about having to pay the piper. This same group is extremely picky about where they are willing to live and where they are willing to work. When they finally DO land a decent FT job in the locale of their choice (or close to it), they can’t “settle” for a well-used home when they finally qualify to get a mortgage, they can’t “settle” for older electronics donated to them to set up their first household and can’t “settle” for used furnishings and household items donated to them. Everything must be *new* and many millenials quit decent, FT jobs which don’t promote them fast enough for their liking and/or allow them to be absent from the workplace periodically (telecommuting, work from home and leaves of absence) enough to their liking. They don’t have the patience or wherewithal to work a whole year after beginning a FT job to earn a 2-week vacation.
Even though they didn’t take out student loans, My kids are no exception to the above and that is why they don’t have savings for a downpayment in spite of making an excellent salary … even for well over a decade!
In short, millenials want to live with the level of security and amenities their 45-65 year old parents enjoy straight out of the gate of life and will “settle” for nothing less.
Witness the high competition for rentals in choice CA cities by prospective tenants who ostensibly make enough money to qualify for a mortgage but can’t because they have too much debt. They did it to themselves.
For example, Boomers . . . like me (yes, both semi-“professionals” employed FT at the time) bought a duplex on the likes of 47th Street in SD in our early 20’s for just over $70K and moved in one side and rented out the other side. We had 3 well-used vehicles between us (with 75-125K miles on them) and furnished our living/dining room combo with $10 bean bag chairs, macrame pot hangers received as gifts, a $39.99 hi-back 5-pc plastic dinette and “cast-off” 2 x 12″ unpainted boards and cinder blocks to hold my HS turntable and receiver and my spouse’s wood speakers. We bought used appliances from a friend who was moving out of state and my mom gave us her old portable B/W TV which we used for over 10 more years … with “rabbit ears.” We even got free cat furniture (used) and recarpeted some of it!
Our bdrm furniture was also well-used, scratched (even gouged) and needed refinishing as was my short bookshelf which I painted green in HS, lol.
There is NO WAY IN H@LL ANY millenial would live like the above …. ESPecially on carpet that a previous owner installed or use an older stove, frig or dishwasher that existed in the home they just bought! Eeeew! They feel that if the home they just bought is more than 15 years old, it needs to be completely “updated” and perfect before they move a stick of furniture in, lol). It never occurs to them to just spend a day cleaning the older (still functional) appls!
Several property purchases later (in SD County), I am “financially secure.”
I have a “failure-to-save-$$-towards-a-downpayment” convo with my kid(s) almost every time I see them (usually decked out in designer clothing and sporting designer accessories, an $800 – $100 iphone, and, of course, driving a late-model vehicle).
I’ve come to the conclusion that the bulk of (CA) millenials don’t really want to own a home …. certainly not bad enough to pay down their accumulated debt (much of it left over from their “living large” college years) in order to qualify for a mortgage. We boomers had very little in the way of credit cards at our disposal back then (and they certainly did not have more than a few hundred in credit limits) and debit cards did not exist. Thus, we were used to spending “real cash greenbacks” for things as well as vehicles (nearly always used, from an individual), obviously making our generation much more conscious of our spending.
FlyerInHi
October 17, 2016 @
2:27 PM
Some things to consider: Some things to consider:
Housing is now a lot more expensive as a proportion of income.
I know a boomer who grew up in rural Pennsylvania without plumbing. We have higher standards now.
Boomers created stupid zoning that is causing sprawl and expensive housing.
Millenials also like to live in more expensive urban areas.
millennial
October 17, 2016 @
3:13 PM
bearishgurl wrote:If LJRenter [quote=bearishgurl]If LJRenter means what I think he means, he is discussing the vast majority of millenials who refuse to pay their dues and bide their time. They want everything NOW or they feel like a failure.[/quote]
Really? You speaking for LJR now? Are you really LJR in disguise? What I think is that you are trying to use this as a way to express your real opinions, just like many Trump voters are using him as a way to feel better at night for being ignorant. He said none of that.
I really think that LJR was overreacting to elicit a response. What he’s trying to say is that kids these days (not sure if he really means millennials) are studying too hard and spending too much time doing homework that they are equal to, or dumber than previous generations. Also that they can’t see big picture…except his kids of course.
[quote=bearishgurl]
Most of them must have a late model or new vehicle and a $600-$800+ smart phone (+ the required monthly service for it) before they can begin thinking about paying for a roof over their heads. [/quote]
Where do you get this info? Is this from you observations at the tax assessor office? You do realize that all these things you discuss actually refer to the Baby Boomer Generation.
Anyways, I’m fine with people getting a smartphone; it’s a fantastic device. I can take a taxi home after a night out, I can trade my stocks, people can find dates etc.. If I wasn’t married with 3 kids I wouldn’t even think about owning a personal residence. To tell you the truth, owning a personal residence kinda sucks. I would much rather put it into investments that generate cash flow, or even spend it taking a trip to the moon. If I’m not going to make money off of it, I would rather create fantastic memories.
[quote=bearishgurl]
Hence, the millions of “basement dwellers” that Clinton mentioned in front of a group of her donors. They’re still in their parent(s) basement in their late 20’s/early ’30’s because they couldn’t make any sacrifices to their lifestyles to get thru college and thus borrowed way too much in student loans to supplement at least four years of living expenses while a (lowly) undergrad and are now whining about having to pay the piper.
[/quote]
There are a lot of reasons why our generation don’t own homes themselves. The first being that housing prices have gone up significantly especially compared to the pay of entry level jobs. You do realize that this doesn’t affect just America, but many other countries such as Korea and Japan this has been the norm for quite a while. Any area with a long recession and expensive housing will have this; it’s not a product of our generation. Secondly, student loan debt is due to the increase in the price of college. For instance, my father was able to go to an in-state college in California for free. This college now would cost $56k over 4 years for in-state tuition. If you lived out of state it’s now over $160k. I don’t think it’s fair for you to throw this on us, when you got your college for free.
[quote=bearishgurl]This same group is extremely picky about where they are willing to live and where they are willing to work. When they finally DO land a decent FT job in the locale of their choice (or close to it), they can’t “settle” for a well-used home when they finally qualify to get a mortgage, they can’t “settle” for older electronics donated to them to set up their first household and can’t “settle” for used furnishings and household items donated to them. [/quote]
I don’t know if this relates to “millennials”, or just people in general. I really think that there have always been early adopters who want the newest and greatest. I’m sure there are a lot of Boomers driving the fanciest and newest Porsches that just came out. I watched Wall Street and Ferris Bueller’s from your generation. Those guys liked to drive fancy cars too.
[quote=bearishgurl] Everything must be *new* and many millenials quit decent, FT jobs which don’t promote them fast enough for their liking and/or allow them to be absent from the workplace periodically (telecommuting, work from home and leaves of absence) enough to their liking. [/quote]
You’re probably right about this. I think that the numerous recessions and layoffs we’ve went through shows that there is no loyalty between employer and employee anymore. No job is 100% safe…even government jobs. We are the generation where people can’t retire with a pension and be with one company anymore. We continuously evolve professionally and our loyalties lie with our family and our friends and not with the company.
[quote=bearishgurl]
Witness the high competition for rentals in choice CA cities by prospective tenants who ostensibly make enough money to qualify for a mortgage but can’t because they have too much debt. They did it to themselves.[/quote]
Stupid irresponsible doctor/lawyer for taking out that student loan. They should’ve just worked at McDonalds for the rest of their lives so they can one day get a house!! Give me a break…those debts will go down from excess cash flow and one day they will be able to buy a house.
[quote=bearishgurl]
For example, Boomers . . . like me (yes, both semi-“professionals” employed FT at the time) bought a duplex on the likes of 47th Street in SD in our early 20’s for just over $70K and moved in one side and rented out the other side…[/quote]
What is a semi-professional? Is that a Boomer word for a person with a full time job? I don’t consider myself a semi-pro, or a professional but hold a full-time job. However I consider my wife and friends professionals, since they have CPA, JD’s and MD’s.
$70k for a town-home! Wow are you sure that was in SD, I’m going to pay more than that for my Tesla.
[quote=bearishgurl]
There is NO WAY IN H@LL ANY millenial would live like the above …. ESPecially on carpet that a previous owner installed or use an older stove, frig or dishwasher that existed in the home they just bought! Eeeew! They feel that if the home they just bought is more than 15 years old, it needs to be completely “updated” and perfect before they move a stick of furniture in, lol).[/quote]
Well after working for 15-20 years and making good money, why would we deal with any of that? Sounds kind of ridiculous for a 30-40 year old to be living like a college kid. Great for you that you did it. You should pat yourself on the back for that.
[quote=bearishgurl]
I’ve come to the conclusion that the bulk of (CA) millenials don’t really want to own a home …. certainly not bad enough to pay down their accumulated debt (much of it left over from their “living large” college years.[/quote])
Discussed this above.
[quote=bearishgurl] We boomers had very little in the way of credit cards at our disposal back then (and they certainly did not have more than a few hundred in credit limits) and debit cards did not exist. Thus, we were used to spending “real cash greenbacks” for things as well as vehicles (nearly always used, from an individual), obviously making our generation much more conscious of our spending.[/quote]
You do realize that expansionary policies implemented during your generation and followed by the rest of your boomer presidents created a lot of this. Creation of ARM’s and all this creative financing. The advent of credit cards were all done during your time.
Anonymous
October 10, 2016 @
3:24 PM
Yes.
My father named me Sue. Yes.
My father named me Sue.
The-Shoveler
October 11, 2016 @
3:39 PM
Maybe not represented on this Maybe not represented on this board but boomers for the most part were free range kids who mostly had to fend for themselves.
Anyway IMO
Balboa_Again
October 14, 2016 @
9:24 AM
Most of what I picked up from Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I’m mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.
To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.
NotCranky
October 14, 2016 @
9:52 AM
The issue of being a joiner The issue of being a joiner or not is huge. I just recently told my wife that it is the biggest area in which I want my kids to be different than me.
Maybe there should be a group for us , something like non-joiners anonymous.
millennial
October 14, 2016 @
10:31 AM
Balboa_Again wrote:Most of [quote=Balboa_Again]Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I’m mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.
To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.[/quote]
It’s funny because I’m exactly the same way, whereas I don’t take huge risks, but I always attribute it to growing up with parents who were upper middle class. I sometimes wish I had that “nothing to lose” mentality.
Although my wife doesn’t believe it, I feel that communities are very important to happiness. I think I’m going to add that to my list of things to teach my children.
FlyerInHi
October 14, 2016 @
11:10 AM
Taking huge all or nothing Taking huge all or nothing risks is a mental illness.
People who succeed are elevated, but nobody talks about the vast majority who fail.
You always need a baseline security blanket.
For example if you take risks and suddenly come into wealth, you will be celebrated and plenty of people will want to be your friends. When you take another risk and lose it all, people will sneer at you for being a fake. I have the feeling that’s the fate Trump will suffer
millennial
October 14, 2016 @
1:45 PM
FlyerInHi wrote:Taking huge [quote=FlyerInHi]Taking huge all or nothing risks is a mental illness.
People who succeed are elevated, but nobody talks about the vast majority who fail.
You always need a baseline security blanket.
For example if you take risks and suddenly come into wealth, you will be celebrated and plenty of people will want to be your friends. When you take another risk and lose it all, people will sneer at you for being a fake. I have the feeling that’s the fate Trump will suffer[/quote]
I don’t think there are a lot of all or nothing risks out there. At the end of the day most people always have a security blanket like family and/ community, and America has lenient bankruptcy laws.
Trump will probably lose something, but not everything since he rarely signs personal guarantees. Either way he’ll be fine in the end.
njtosd
October 14, 2016 @
2:51 PM
millennial wrote:Balboa_Again [quote=millennial][quote=Balboa_Again]Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I’m mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.
To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.[/quote]
It’s funny because I’m exactly the same way, whereas I don’t take huge risks, but I always attribute it to growing up with parents who were upper middle class. I sometimes wish I had that “nothing to lose” mentality.
Although my wife doesn’t believe it, I feel that communities are very important to happiness. I think I’m going to add that to my list of things to teach my children.[/quote]
This is an easy one: (1) Name the top three fun memories you have, or even the top 10; (2) Answer this question – were you alone for any of those experiences? My guess is that the answer for most people would be no for all of them. Worst experiences – probably the same. Communities, friend groups, whatever, make life good (or miserable according to the person who coined the phrase “hell is other people”).
Being alone is easy but not fun. Being with people can be more difficult and more work (more views to take into account, more compromise, more diapers to change, more milk to buy) but is almost always more fun.
millennial
October 14, 2016 @
4:50 PM
njtosd wrote:millennial [quote=njtosd][quote=millennial][quote=Balboa_Again]Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I’m mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.
To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.[/quote]
It’s funny because I’m exactly the same way, whereas I don’t take huge risks, but I always attribute it to growing up with parents who were upper middle class. I sometimes wish I had that “nothing to lose” mentality.
Although my wife doesn’t believe it, I feel that communities are very important to happiness. I think I’m going to add that to my list of things to teach my children.[/quote]
This is an easy one: (1) Name the top three fun memories you have, or even the top 10; (2) Answer this question – were you alone for any of those experiences? My guess is that the answer for most people would be no for all of them. Worst experiences – probably the same. Communities, friend groups, whatever, make life good (or miserable according to the person who coined the phrase “hell is other people”).
Being alone is easy but not fun. Being with people can be more difficult and more work (more views to take into account, more compromise, more diapers to change, more milk to buy) but is almost always more fun.[/quote]
Sources of happiness:
Belonging to a community
Spending money to create memories
Giving to others
Forgot which book I read this in but they were multiple studies which proved this.
scaredyclassic
October 14, 2016 @
4:58 PM
njtosd wrote:millennial [quote=njtosd][quote=millennial][quote=Balboa_Again]Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I’m mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.
To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.[/quote]
It’s funny because I’m exactly the same way, whereas I don’t take huge risks, but I always attribute it to growing up with parents who were upper middle class. I sometimes wish I had that “nothing to lose” mentality.
Although my wife doesn’t believe it, I feel that communities are very important to happiness. I think I’m going to add that to my list of things to teach my children.[/quote]
This is an easy one: (1) Name the top three fun memories you have, or even the top 10; (2) Answer this question – were you alone for any of those experiences? My guess is that the answer for most people would be no for all of them. Worst experiences – probably the same. Communities, friend groups, whatever, make life good (or miserable according to the person who coined the phrase “hell is other people”).
Being alone is easy but not fun. Being with people can be more difficult and more work (more views to take into account, more compromise, more diapers to change, more milk to buy) but is almost always more fun.[/quote]
one of my happiest memories was a long solo bike trip.
Balboa
October 16, 2016 @
9:19 AM
scaredyclassic wrote:
one of [quote=scaredyclassic]
one of my happiest memories was a long solo bike trip.[/quote]
One of my best moments was a very solitary enjoyment, even though I wasn’t alone. Sunrise on top of a temple in Tikal in Guatemala — even my fellow tourists couldn’t ruin it. 🙂
scaredyclassic
October 16, 2016 @
10:31 AM
not sure i learned how to be not sure i learned how to be a man.
njtosd
October 16, 2016 @
1:30 PM
Balboa wrote:scaredyclassic [quote=Balboa][quote=scaredyclassic]
one of my happiest memories was a long solo bike trip.[/quote]
One of my best moments was a very solitary enjoyment, even though I wasn’t alone. Sunrise on top of a temple in Tikal in Guatemala — even my fellow tourists couldn’t ruin it. :)[/quote]
The simple presence of other people often enhances the experience. Not sure why. I am currently taking a Krav Maga fitness class. I began to think that I could do at least some of it alone, and that would be more convenient, but it wouldn’t be as much fun. And no, I’m not to the point where we actually try to work with partners, just bags.
scaredyclassic
October 16, 2016 @
3:22 PM
agreed. id like to join a agreed. id like to join a bowling league. not sure i can consistently break 100 tho.
i do have my own bowling shoes now tho.
gzz
October 18, 2016 @
11:21 PM
agreed. id like to join a
agreed. id like to join a bowling league. not sure i can consistently break 100 tho.
i do have my own bowling shoes now tho.
I like bowling but if I play more than 2 games at once I get a very mild finger pain that makes me worried I will get carpel tunnel if I play a lot.
Are there some sports medicine doctors who specialize in bowling who can tell me if I have anything to worry about?
NotCranky
October 19, 2016 @
7:08 AM
gzz wrote:
agreed. id like to [quote=gzz]
agreed. id like to join a bowling league. not sure i can consistently break 100 tho.
i do have my own bowling shoes now tho.
I like bowling but if I play more than 2 games at once I get a very mild finger pain that makes me worried I will get carpel tunnel if I play a lot.
Are there some sports medicine doctors who specialize in bowling who can tell me if I have anything to worry about?[/quote]
Probably just need adaptation. Start slow and easy. Bowling is a unique activity for the hands and wrists. Train your hands.
La Jolla Renter
October 17, 2016 @
10:03 AM
Anyone watch: Surfwise, a Anyone watch: Surfwise, a documentary on netflix?
I watched it last week. Bizarre and very thought provoking on countless levels. (A great election distraction)
Doug Pray’s documentary delves into the often inspiring, sometimes shocking life of 85-year-old Dorian “Doc” Paskowitz, a renowned surfer, surf camp owner, doctor and sex guru who, together with his wife, brought up nine children. Paskowitz raised his family in a camper on the beach, home-schooling them and requiring them to follow a strict lifestyle regimen. Now, his grown children speak out about how their unique upbringing affected them.
Balboa_Again
October 17, 2016 @
12:40 PM
Bears got a great team this Bears got a great team this year. They’re gonna go all the way.
millennial
October 17, 2016 @
1:54 PM
Balboa_Again wrote:Bears got [quote=Balboa_Again]Bears got a great team this year. They’re gonna go all the way.[/quote]
You’re crazy! They just got beat by the Jags. Maybe the only thing they got going is that Cutler is out.
Balboa_Again
October 17, 2016 @
3:22 PM
millennial wrote:Balboa_Again [quote=millennial][quote=Balboa_Again]Bears got a great team this year. They’re gonna go all the way.[/quote]
You’re crazy! They just got beat by the Jags. Maybe the only thing they got going is that Cutler is out.[/quote]I stand by my statement as both a quote from “Planes, Trains and Automobiles” and “Not the Craziest Post In The Thread Even If I Was Contemplating Actual Team Prospects.”
millennial
October 17, 2016 @
3:36 PM
Balboa_Again wrote:I stand by [quote=Balboa_Again]I stand by my statement as both a quote from “Planes, Trains and Automobiles” and “Not the Craziest Post In The Thread Even If I Was Contemplating Actual Team Prospects.”[/quote]
I’ll second that.
bearishgurl
October 17, 2016 @
4:06 PM
millenial, I was discussing millenial, I was discussing TWO UNITS (i.e. duplex) for $70K, each ~1000 sf with their own garage! They were in an urban, long-ago developed area. Yes . . . IN SD proper.
The millenials with big student loan payments today didn’t ALL become “professionals.” In many cases, most of their student-loan proceeds was used to pay rent for luxury apts, dine out often and visit bars and salons regularly (esp if they were in-state students enrolled in their home-state universities and thus had low tuition and fees). I know this for a fact. In some cases, the student who left college with a big monthly SL payment didn’t even graduate (or graduated in a field which has a dearth of jobs, especially WHERE they want to reside).
I was discussing FIRST TIME homebuyers (“FTB”‘s) who need to first spend $10-$50K (most or all on “credit,” since the bulk of their savings was just spent on a downpayment) “updating” a house they just bought before they ever move a stick of furniture in . . . NOT “40-year olds.” They can’t possibly live with anything already installed in the home and change it out room by room as they can comfortably afford to. This is what the boomers did. Of course, there wasn’t the proliferation of new subdivisions to choose from for boomers because Community Facilities Districts (which use MR bonds to pay for new infrastructure) had not yet been formed in SD County.
And ARMS were actually GREAT mortgages to have until the sub-prime boom beginning in 2004 when all the GOOD things about them were eliminated and all the EXOTIC “don’t ask/don’t tell” provisions were added to them!
Boomers didn’t think of buying a home only if they had kids. Boomers thought of buying a home as an investment (to use to climb the “homebuying ladder” to a better home later) and to create net worth. Having kids had nothing to do with it.
Today’s FTB’s don’t want the “starter home” that was “good enough” for us. They want a bigger, more modern home exactly in their area of choice (within reason) or they will continue renting . . . that is, until they are priced out of rentals in their “choice” area. Then they’ll move into their 2nd and 3rd choice areas until their lives become unbearable with their daily commute. They don’t WANT the stability of owning a more centrally-located home where they would have a short commute to a variety of job centers. Like you said, not if it interferes with saving their downpayment for a Tesla :=0
millennial
October 17, 2016 @
5:07 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
The [quote=bearishgurl]
The millenials with big student loan payments today didn’t ALL become “professionals.” In many cases, most of their student-loan proceeds was used to pay rent for luxury apts, dine out often and visit bars and salons regularly (esp if they were in-state students enrolled in their home-state universities and thus had low tuition and fees). I know this for a fact. [/quote]
Well I’m sure there are some of these people…me included. I used my student loan money to invest in some Apple stock, pay for beers, and also to pay for housing. Did 4-5 years of this lifestyle create a burden that I couldn’t overcome? Nope. Now would 160k of student loans to pay for 4 years at Berkley…probably. Lucky dad put aside money in the MET (Michigan Educational Trust) so I could get my tuition covered for free. Many of my classmates with “me gen” parents, not so much.
[quote=bearishgurl]
In some cases, the student who left college with a big monthly SL payment didn’t even graduate (or graduated in a field which has a dearth of jobs, especially WHERE they want to reside).[/quote]
Yes. I learned from my dad…do not graduate in Psychology. Thank god college was free for him.
[quote=bearishgurl]I was discussing FIRST TIME homebuyers (“FTB”‘s) who need to first spend $10-$50K (most or all on “credit,” since the bulk of their savings was just spent on a downpayment) “updating” a house they just bought before they ever move a stick of furniture in . . . NOT “40-year olds.” [/quote]
Well I’m a FTB and just paid for carpeting, and furniture on credit. Why would I spend money in the bank to buy furniture when the stores will give me 0% financing for 3-5 years? Even though the spread is miniscule, it wouldn’t make sense to use the money in the bank. I guess the alternative is to live with a ratty couch and carpets that someone might have puked/pooped on, but if my wife and I can easily pay for it; why would I want to?
[quote=bearishgurl]Boomers didn’t think of buying a home only if they had kids. Boomers thought of buying a home as an investment (to use to climb the “homebuying ladder” to a better home later) and to create net worth. Having kids had nothing to do with it. [/quote]
Well after we saw numerous boom and bust cycles I guess we don’t think of personal residences as logical investments; especially when I can get greater ROI’s on MFR’s, or many other things.
[quote=bearishgurl]Today’s FTB’s don’t want the “starter home” that was “good enough” for us. They want a bigger, more modern home exactly in their area of choice (within reason) or they will continue renting . . . that is, until they are priced out of rentals in their “choice” area. Then they’ll move into their 2nd and 3rd choice areas until their lives become unbearable with their daily commute. [/quote]
#1. Like I said, I just bought my first and probably last home. Of course I want it to be in a nice area for my children. Would I have continued renting if I had no children – Hell yes!! Personally I loved the flexibility with renting, and would rather use my excess cash flow for investments.
#2. Regarding the rest of the stuff, don’t most people (not just millennials) do the same thing? I see and work with a lot of Boomers driving from Temecula and Murrieta so they can have a 4,000sf home. This is in contrast to others my age who would shoot themselves in the head before doing that.
[quote=bearishgurl] They don’t WANT the stability of owning a more centrally-located home where they would have a short commute to a variety of job centers. Like you said, not if it interferes with saving their downpayment for a Tesla :=0[/quote]
Well my commute is 20-25 minutes each way to the office, which is more than bearable for me. I also own a large enough home to house a family of 5 comfortable and also have enough cash flow to pay for a Tesla among numerous other things. Again I have the cash to pay for it, but why pay cash when I can finance it at 1.60%?
bearishgurl
October 17, 2016 @
4:10 PM
Millenials are the “instant Millenials are the “instant gratification” generation.
FlyerInHi
October 17, 2016 @
4:31 PM
BG, i think millennial women BG, i think millennial women are buying houses on their own in greater number. Men, not as much.
I recall reading that somewhere. correct me if I’m wrong
BTW, i only buy rental condos close to the city. I always remodel in polished urban Euro style (Ikea kitchens with waterfall counters). I have great millennial tenants with good jobs. It’s a great niche because it’s hard to find nice and new near the city.
I don’t mind sharing my “secret” because the remodel and the tenant search are the hardest part so I’m not afraid of competition.
millennial
October 17, 2016 @
5:08 PM
FlyerInHi wrote:BG, i think [quote=FlyerInHi]BG, i think millennial women are buying houses on their own in greater number. Men, not as much.
I recall reading that somewhere. correct me if I’m wrong
BTW, i only buy rental condos close to the city. I always remodel in polished urban Euro style (Ikea kitchens with waterfall counters). I have great millennial tenants with good jobs. It’s a great niche because it’s hard to find nice and new near the city.
I don’t mind sharing my “secret” because the remodel and the tenant search are the hardest part so I’m not afraid of competition.[/quote]
Flyer that is a very smart idea and thankfully there are many areas here to choose from. You have Downtown, MV, MM, and UTC. As long as it’s nice, modern and clean people will always pay a premium. All those areas have some sketch parts, but for the most part have some part of the demographic who are Millennial and educated.
millennial
October 17, 2016 @
5:00 PM
bearishgurl wrote:Millenials [quote=bearishgurl]Millenials are the “instant gratification” generation.[/quote]
“We are the take advantage of low interest rates” generation!
La Jolla Renter
October 18, 2016 @
7:54 AM
millennial wrote:bearishgurl [quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]Millenials are the “instant gratification” generation.[/quote]
“We are the take advantage of low interest rates” generation![/quote]
Specifically how are they doing that?
FlyerInHi
October 18, 2016 @
11:43 AM
La Jolla Renter [quote=La Jolla Renter][quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]Millenials are the “instant gratification” generation.[/quote]
“We are the take advantage of low interest rates” generation![/quote]
Specifically how are they doing that?[/quote]
I was reading that there’s too much debt out in the economy. But debt equals savings chasing low returns. Maybe when the boomers start passing away and the younger generations spend the money, growth rates will improve.
bearishgurl
October 18, 2016 @
12:18 PM
La Jolla Renter [quote=La Jolla Renter][quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]Millenials are the “instant gratification” generation.[/quote]
“We are the take advantage of low interest rates” generation![/quote]
Specifically how are they doing that?[/quote]Well, in yamashi/millenial’s defense, he’s right about all the “buy-now/pay-at-0%-per-month-for-x months” offers for consumer goods today. Boomers didn’t have that option when they needed things (were in their prime consuming years). That’s why most of them just took castoffs from friends/relatives and items from the classified ads and garage sales when they needed something. I even bought appliances for my rental unit used (and kept replacing them with more used appls when they broke). Auto loans for young people back then (without established credit on “TRW”) had a 15-24% interest rate. My $65K mortgage on that duplex was $774 month (P&I only) and that was a “special” interest rate backed by a state program to encourage investing in certain urban “targeted” areas. Of course, that didn’t include property taxes or insurance. My rental unit initially rented for $515 month and was renting for $650 month 8 years later (when we sold the property). The prevailing FHA rate at the time we purchased it was about 15.5%, IIRC (and that was lower that the conventional mortgage interest rate). Boomers really didn’t have the option of “shopping in areas well above their means” like millenials do today. The only reason millenials such as yamashi were able to buy the ONE home that they will raise their family in for the duration of their minority for their first home was due to mortgage interest rates of the past decade-plus being the lowest in the history of the mortgage industry. Add to that a proliferation of outlying areas to shop in due to massive overbuilding (with the attendant freeway construction and widening) in San Diego County in the past 20+ years and these two conditions created the most favorable homebuying climate AND largest choice in history for SD homebuyers.
The only drawback I’ve seen to the SD residential RE market of the last 8 years or so is the dearth of “fixers” to buy due to organized flipper teams and REITS buying most of them up for resale, and to a larger extent, to retain for buy-and-hold investments in recent years. It would be very hard for Mr and Ms BG (who had tools and a large pickup and trailer and were handy and hard workers) to buy a fixer today because they needed a mortgage to do so and the vast majority of fixers today sell for all cash. Because of this, today’s FTB (and STB/TTB) must rely solely on their W-2 incomes to increase their net worth. Meaning, they must depend on someone else to offer them the opportunities (AND retain them) instead of relying on themselves to create net worth.
However, the vast majority of millenials today wouldn’t even step onto the lot of a fixer, let alone consider buying it. The “Eww factor” is too much for them so the concept of accumulating “sweat equity” is not palatable to this group. Not only that, most of them were not taught to use power tools or landscaping equipment while growing up …. or how to pull and back in a flatbed trailer after learning to drive, or (as in the case with my kids), the offers were made to teach them but they refused to learn, citing they were “too busy.” We’ve got a whole generation out there who has been preoccupied exercising with their thumbs all of their lives and of whom a good portion don’t even know how to work laundry machines! They’re virtually helpless in the “survival skill” dept :=0
I hope all the millenials get GREAT JOBS in the coming years and SAVE THEIR EARNINGS because they will really have no other way to create true net worth for their retirements (except for the perilously fickle stock market). Nor will they be eligible for anywhere near the level of pensions that their predecessors are collecting (excepting career military personnel). Unlike the boomers, the vast majority of millenials will have no pension at all.
FlyerInHi
October 18, 2016 @
1:46 PM
BG, only 5% of cars sold are BG, only 5% of cars sold are stick shift anymore. Did your kids learn?
OTOH, my FIRST vehicle which DIDN’T have a stick shift was a gorgeous maroon (w/color coded bumpers and a fabulous, plush interior) 1988 Toyota Camry LE (purchased used in ’92). It also had a nice, big trunk. I loved that vehicle but it took me awhile to get used to not having to constantly shift.
Wow, Toyota and Lexus doesn’t make their older (square) style of sedans anymore and that is a shame. They were very sleek and beautiful … that is, compared to their sedans today which appear to have a chopped-off trunk and look like a big blob :=0
no_such_reality
October 18, 2016 @
2:15 PM
Given baby boomers have been Given baby boomers have been a major force since the mid-60s to today and that the National Debt during that period went from $0.5 Trillion to $19 Trillion, I don’t think the baby boomers have much of a leg to stand on when it comes to managing money and paying their way.
You can even give them the benefit of the doubt until Bill Clinton the first boomer took the Presidency and national debt still went up $14 Trillion.
moneymaker
October 18, 2016 @
8:53 PM
no_such_reality wrote:
You [quote=no_such_reality]
You can even give them the benefit of the doubt until Bill Clinton the first boomer took the Presidency and national debt still went up $14 Trillion.[/quote]
moneymaker [quote=moneymaker][quote=no_such_reality]
You can even give them the benefit of the doubt until Bill Clinton the first boomer took the Presidency and national debt still went up $14 Trillion.[/quote]
I think he meant the annual I think he meant the annual budget deficit. Bill Clinton and Obama were the best at reducing. That is living within our means.
Balboa
October 20, 2016 @
5:08 PM
The point was that from The point was that from Clinton on, we have had boomer presidents. If you don’t like the numbers, thank a boomer. Thank a boomer if you do like them, too.
This thread devolved into an internet fight about generational superiority, not party superiority. Keep up, people. 😉
Or, threadjack the threadjack. That is always an option.
OTOH, my FIRST vehicle which DIDN’T have a stick shift was a gorgeous maroon (w/color coded bumpers and a fabulous, plush interior) 1988 Toyota Camry LE (purchased used in ’92). It also had a nice, big trunk. I loved that vehicle but it took me awhile to get used to not having to constantly shift.
Wow, Toyota and Lexus doesn’t make their older (square) style of sedans anymore and that is a shame. They were very sleek and beautiful … that is, compared to their sedans today which appear to have a chopped-off trunk and look like a big blob :=0[/quote]
I can care less what you think is sleek, or if you like stick shift. I can drive stick but they are a thing of the past. BMW M Class are going to stop offering and Porsche is going that route too. Why? Because they are antiquated and old, just like people who like Toyota Camry’s. Pretty soon it’ll be self driving vehicles and I’ll be the one saying, I miss when we could drive on our own.
La Jolla Renter
October 18, 2016 @
2:11 PM
bearishgurl wrote:Well, in [quote=bearishgurl]Well, in yamashi/millenial’s defense, he’s right about all the “buy-now/pay-at-0%-per-month-for-x months” offers for consumer goods today.[/quote]
Problem #342 with Millennials – they don’t understand many basic rules of economics/common sense… there is no free lunch.
Millennial, someone (fellow millennials) is paying interest on that stuff. Even if you or a very few of you are not.
And if all millennials are so savvy/lucky to pay their bill off on time, then guess where prices go.
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
2:47 PM
La Jolla Renter [quote=La Jolla Renter]
Problem #342 with Millennials – they don’t understand many basic rules of economics/common sense… there is no free lunch.
Millennial, someone (fellow millennials) is paying interest on that stuff. Even if you or a very few of you are not.
And if all millennials are so savvy/lucky to pay their bill off on time, then guess where prices go.[/quote]
What do you mean there is no free lunch? You are a complete moron who doesn’t understand anything about corporate finance! A lot of people pay very low interest rates including 0% financing on new furniture, around 3.5% on homes…etc. Also not just me, but a lot of people get this offer. Do you know how we can do this? It’s because companies are able to cover shortfalls in cash flow with excess liquidity and/ or very cheap loans. Right now the country is pretty much in recession; companies are holding onto tons of cash with nothing to do with it! Corporate rates are even lower with Fed Funds Rates going negative in some countries and many companies able to borrow at Libor + 1.50% or less!
scaredyclassic
October 18, 2016 @
2:48 PM
0 perc on crap furniture, 0 perc on crap furniture, baked into the price.
scaredyclassic
October 18, 2016 @
2:49 PM
i hate paying 4 furniture. i hate paying 4 furniture. theres so much in existence already, really too much. i regret buying some tolix chairs. no regrets over free dining table and goidwill sofa!
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
2:56 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:i hate [quote=scaredyclassic]i hate paying 4 furniture. theres so much in existence already, really too much. i regret buying some tolix chairs. no regrets over free dining table and goodwill sofa![/quote]
Yes I hate paying for furniture also, but I do understand that it is necessary when you buy a house. Personally, I’m one who would rather get top of the line once with timeless design and good craftsmanship than some Ikea POS. I really enjoy Room & Board, but they are pretty pricey. One of my favorite pieces they have is the Avery Bed, but I was able to make one very similar for $200 bucks. Not the same, but saved me a ton of money. Unfortunately I couldn’t do the same with their Hudson Dressers.
FlyerInHi
October 18, 2016 @
3:51 PM
Room and board is my style Room and board is my style too. But don’t knock Ikea. They have some nice stuff. The Stockholm sofa is high quality. Dense foam. If you have an engineering mind you can see.
The IKEA kitchen cabinets are the best you can find. The old style discontinued Ikea cabinets are now sold at Home Depot and Lowes as the “premium” stuff with metal drawers. Made my Blum.
In a globalized world of commodity products most differences are marketing.
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
4:06 PM
FlyerInHi wrote:Room and [quote=FlyerInHi]Room and board is my style too. But don’t knock Ikea. [/quote]
Sorry for knocking Ikea…my wife would kill me too 😀 Maybe overgeneralizing since they are known to be synonymous to cheap renter furniture. You are right about the kitchen stuff, my buddy got some in his pad and it looks pretty good. From what I heard, it was a complete pain, but it looks like it was worth it in the end.
Balboa_Again
October 18, 2016 @
3:24 PM
I agree with LJR with regard I agree with LJR with regard to there being non-dollar costs to the pursuit of “cheap” goods, particularly human and environmental costs. But millennials didn’t exactly invent globalization/outsourcing/Walmart/clear cutting, factory farming, etc.
As far as personal financial choices and failing to appreciate the long range implications of cheap and/or and easy money, this report from AARP on the housing crisis is interesting.
The *oldest* millennials were only 26 or 27 when the *downturn* portion of that thing we keep calling The Global Financial Crisis started. This isn’t ancient history and the architects of it weren’t millennials.
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
3:38 PM
Balboa_Again wrote:I agree [quote=Balboa_Again]I agree with LJR with regard to there being non-dollar costs to the pursuit of “cheap” goods, particularly human and environmental costs. But millennials didn’t exactly invent globalization/outsourcing/Walmart/clear cutting, factory farming, etc.
As far as personal financial choices and failing to appreciate the long range implications of cheap and/or and easy money, this report from AARP on the housing crisis is interesting.
The *oldest* millennials were only 26 or 27 when the *downturn* portion of that thing we keep calling The Global Financial Crisis started. This isn’t ancient history and the architects of it weren’t millennials.[/quote]
I agree there may be non-dollar costs, but not in his statement saying Millennials don’t understand basic economics. Obviously the cheap money thing and housing bubble wasn’t our fault. I’m one of the *oldest* millennials you talk about and I didn’t even have close to enough capital to start thinking about buying a home.
Balboa_Again
October 18, 2016 @
4:01 PM
We pretty much agree. We were We pretty much agree. We were probably both also born in 1980.
I was using the AARP data as a recent example of a bunch of non-millennials making catastrophically bad decisions regarding housing and money at the individual level, perhaps because of lack of understanding of basic economics/risk.
I remember when this thread was just on the verge of becoming an interesting discussion of what people learned from their parents and what they choose to do now that contributes to their happiness and well being.
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
4:20 PM
Balboa_Again wrote:We pretty [quote=Balboa_Again]We pretty much agree. We were probably both also born in 1980.
I was using the AARP data as a recent example of a bunch of non-millennials making catastrophically bad decisions regarding housing and money at the individual level, perhaps because of lack of understanding of basic economics/risk.
I remember when this thread was just on the verge of becoming an interesting discussion of what people learned from their parents and what they choose to do now that contributes to their happiness and well being.[/quote]
Let’s get back to that shall we. Fighting BG and LJR is taking up too much of my time anyways.
My father and mother taught me that if I study and work hard I can achieve anything (immigrant mother, and 2nd generation father). They also taught me to not follow the status quo; to run away from opportunities that everyone wants and to spend extra time to analyze opportunities that everyone is running from. This has served me especially well during the last downturn.
bearishgurl
October 18, 2016 @
4:30 PM
Balboa_Again wrote:I remember [quote=Balboa_Again]I remember when this thread was just on the verge of becoming an interesting discussion of what people learned from their parents and what they choose to do now that contributes to their happiness and well being.[/quote]My parents were members of the “Greatest Generation” who became (very successful, I might add) “dust bowl refugees” in their young adulthood.
Need I say more??
FlyerInHi
October 18, 2016 @
4:40 PM
BG, the standards have BG, the standards have changed. What we take for granted today were luxuries in the past. Like orthodontics. Millennials have nicer teeth.
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
4:49 PM
FlyerInHi wrote:BG, the [quote=FlyerInHi]BG, the standards have changed. What we take for granted today were luxuries in the past. Like orthodontics. Millennials have nicer teeth.[/quote]
BG fails to realize that areas and places change too. I didn’t live here in the 80’s but I heard North Park, South Park and Gas Lamp wasn’t too nice. I grew up in Detroit and it has changed too. Many boomers ran away to the suburbs during the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. Millennials like my sister and her friends are now tearing down the boarded up homes and developing beautiful sky rises. BG’s ignorance astounds, and saddens me.
La Jolla Renter
October 18, 2016 @
4:56 PM
millennial wrote:La Jolla [quote=millennial][quote=La Jolla Renter]
Problem #342 with Millennials – they don’t understand many basic rules of economics/common sense… there is no free lunch.
Millennial, someone (fellow millennials) is paying interest on that stuff. Even if you or a very few of you are not.
And if all millennials are so savvy/lucky to pay their bill off on time, then guess where prices go.[/quote]
What do you mean there is no free lunch? You are a complete moron who doesn’t understand anything about corporate finance! A lot of people pay very low interest rates including 0% financing on new furniture, around 3.5% on homes…etc. Also not just me, but a lot of people get this offer. Do you know how we can do this? It’s because companies are able to cover shortfalls in cash flow with excess liquidity and/ or very cheap loans. Right now the country is pretty much in recession; companies are holding onto tons of cash with nothing to do with it! Corporate rates are even lower with Fed Funds Rates going negative in some countries and many companies able to borrow at Libor + 1.50% or less![/quote]
Holly shit, I think your that little shit Millennial in your Prius that cuts in at the very last second after passing the mile of cars patiently waiting to exit the 5 at Garnet every night.
Fyi, I’m a lot closer to your age than you think, just thankfully not a Millennial. And perhaps I do know a little more about corporate finance than you may think, as I own one that I started before I graduated college. Another thing I know that you don’t, the priceless feeling of buying a car with cash (twice). And guess what… you can get the car for a much lower price than you can at 0%. Especially if you know how to tactfully deal with the owner/GM.
There is no free lunch grasshopper, The banks and wall-street have your piss ant little number my friend.
One more thing, when your driving your 0% overpriced Tesla checking your 120K in apple stock every 1/2 mile, don’t drive like such a fvcking millennial… cuz karma is a bitch and I would want you to hit my kids.
Now, I got to go get some of that 6ft glassy surf before sunset. Peace out.
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
6:15 PM
La Jolla Renter wrote:
Fyi, [quote=La Jolla Renter]
Fyi, I’m a lot closer to your age than you think, just thankfully not a Millennial. And perhaps I do know a little more about corporate finance than you may think, as I own one that I started before I graduated college. Another thing I know that you don’t, the priceless feeling of buying a car with cash (twice). And guess what… you can get the car for a much lower price than you can at 0%. Especially if you know how to tactfully deal with the owner/GM.[/quote]
Well I have purchased a car with cash twice, but again before very low financing rates made it disadvantageous. Also maybe you can get a better deal without the financing aspect, but in my cases it didn’t work that way. I asked about cash price vs. financing price. The last three cars I financed, it was the same price. The reality is that the dealership could care less, and as long as you have strong credit the financing arm of the car manufacturer (GMAC/Toyota Financial/US Bank (Tesla) could care less or does not mind since they will be making enough to cover their interest rate spreads. For me it’s a win based on the low APR; diminishing time value of money; and the flexibility for me to utilize my cash on hand for investments that bring greater ROI.
[quote=La Jolla Renter]
There is no free lunch grasshopper, The banks and wall-street have your piss ant little number my friend.[/quote]
Not sure what you mean by this, or what it has to do with taking out low interest rate loans (mortgage/car/consumer goods). I do agree that it’s very difficult to beat wall street. I also understand that stocks are a zero-sum game, with most likely me on the negative side.
[quote=La Jolla Renter]
One more thing, when your driving your 0% overpriced Tesla checking your 120K in apple stock every 1/2 mile, don’t drive like such a fvcking millennial… cuz karma is a bitch and I would want you to hit my kids.
Now, I got to go get some of that 6ft glassy surf before sunset. Peace out.[/quote]
Hey man you’re the one creating all the awesome Karma. Opening this thread judging, and calling us Millennials equal to, or dumber than your generation. All I ask for are facts and some rational thinking.
Balboa_Again
October 18, 2016 @
2:13 PM
bearishgurl wrote: The only [quote=bearishgurl] The only reason millenials such as yamashi were able to buy the ONE home that they will raise their family in for the duration of their minority for their first home was due to mortgage interest rates of the past decade-plus being the lowest in the history of the mortgage industry.[/quote]
I’ll hop on the crowded “personal anecdotes” train and say that for me and at least two concentric circles worth of my very responsible (though not “professional”) friends, the main reason we were able to purchase in San Diego was…
somebody died.
The major factors in not having a down payment prior to inheritance in our 30s (geezer millennials) include rapid rises in housing costs, huge increases in college tuition that don’t track with wages/COL even though degrees are now de rigueur, substantial increases in student loan interest rates on top of that (govt loan rates doubled in the 7 years that separate my sister and me), and melt-down related crap.
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
3:07 PM
Balboa_Again wrote:
The major [quote=Balboa_Again]
The major factors in not having a down payment prior to inheritance in our 30s (geezer millennials) include rapid rises in housing costs, huge increases in college tuition that don’t track with wages/COL even though degrees are now de rigueur, substantial increases in student loan interest rates on top of that (govt loan rates doubled in the 7 years that separate my sister and me), and melt-down related crap.[/quote]
Yes exactly my point. BG goes on and on about how Millennials don’t save…well those are the reasons. 20% down on a $500k home (something I would consider a normal starter home) is almost $100K whereas on a $81K townhome is $16K. Low interest rates didn’t exactly help keep housing prices down since most people are looking at the monthly nut when buying.
bearishgurl
October 18, 2016 @
3:39 PM
millennial wrote:Balboa_Again [quote=millennial][quote=Balboa_Again]
The major factors in not having a down payment prior to inheritance in our 30s (geezer millennials) include rapid rises in housing costs, huge increases in college tuition that don’t track with wages/COL even though degrees are now de rigueur, substantial increases in student loan interest rates on top of that (govt loan rates doubled in the 7 years that separate my sister and me), and melt-down related crap.[/quote]
Yes exactly my point. BG goes on and on about how Millennials don’t save…well those are the reasons. 20% down on a $500k home (something I would consider a normal starter home) is almost $100K whereas on a $81K townhome is $16K. Low interest rates didn’t exactly help keep housing prices down since most people are looking at the monthly nut when buying.[/quote]The particular loan program we used to buy that duplex many years ago no longer exists. IIRC, we only put <$7K down and that included our portion of the closing costs. We were not required to put 20% down NOR were we required to obtain PMI as our mortgage was NOT a conventional loan.
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
3:44 PM
bearishgurl wrote:The [quote=bearishgurl]The particular loan program we used to buy that duplex many years ago no longer exists. IIRC, we only put <$7K down and that included our portion of the closing costs. We were not required to put 20% down NOR were we required to obtain PMI as our mortgage was NOT a conventional loan.[/quote]
Lucky you. Meanwhile we have to deal with Boomers like you who criticize us for not saving $100K to put down on our first home, when you only had to put down $7K. This is after we have to pay down student debt due to record breaking increases in college education.
bearishgurl
October 18, 2016 @
4:08 PM
millennial wrote:bearishgurl [quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]The particular loan program we used to buy that duplex many years ago no longer exists. IIRC, we only put <$7K down and that included our portion of the closing costs. We were not required to put 20% down NOR were we required to obtain PMI as our mortgage was NOT a conventional loan.[/quote]
Lucky you. Meanwhile we have to deal with Boomers like you who criticize us for not saving $100K to put down on our first home, when you only had to put down $7K. This is after we have to pay down student debt due to record breaking increases in college education.[/quote]There were other conditions. We had to hold the property for 7 years (we held it about 8 1/2 yrs, I think) in order to not pay a small "equity share" portion (back to the state agency who guaranteed the loan) upon COE when we sold. The truth is, millenials would not buy into that area today. They wouldn’t even get off the freeway on that exit unless they grew up in the area. Their “living large” expectations are through the roof! As I stated earlier in this thread, they want the calibur of home they grew up in that their now 50++ year-old parents had buy/sell several times and sweat blood to get into. And they want that home TODAY. If they can’t get it, they will RENT as close to that home as they can possibly get approved for and will settle for nothing less. That’s the biggest difference between millenials and their boomer parents. It’s a difference of values and no amount of a parent demonstrating their own values to their kid can change this because millenials are too overly-influenced by “popular culture.” Ex: “reality TV” show depicting multiple roommates who live together in a drama-filled, 6 bdrm, $2.5M+ monstrosity in the likes of Encino, CA. Throughout the show’s season, none of them ever appear to actually get up in the morning to go to a job :=0 The message it sends the age 12 and up crowd is “easy come, easy go. This is what you can expect after coming up age and this is the way life is on your own.” There are dozens of shows like this on cable/satellite TV.
It’s not too much to ask to save $100K in 5-10 years if one doesn’t have any student loans and made close to $100K straight out of college and has been working FT since then (with raises and promotions) as my kid(s) have.
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
4:33 PM
bearishgurl wrote:The truth [quote=bearishgurl]The truth is, millenials would not buy into that area today. They wouldn’t even get off the freeway on that exit unless they grew up in the area. Their “living large” expectations are through the roof! As I stated earlier in this thread, they want the calibur of home they grew up in that their now 50++ year-old parents had buy/sell several times and sweat blood to get into. And they want that home TODAY. If they can’t get it, they will RENT as close to that home as they can possibly get approved for and will settle for nothing less. That’s the biggest difference between millenials and their boomer parents. It’s a difference of values and no amount of a parent demonstrating their own values to their kid can change this because millenials are too overly-influenced by “popular culture.” Ex: “reality TV” show depicting multiple roommates who live together in a drama-filled, 6 bdrm, $2.5M+ monstrosity in the likes of Encino, CA. Throughout the show’s season, none of them ever appear to actually get up in the morning to go to a job :=0 The message it sends the age 12 and up crowd is “easy come, easy go. This is what you can expect after coming up age and this is the way life is on your own.” There are dozens of shows like this on cable/satellite TV.[/quote]
I don’t know where you get this rubbish from. If you already have these unshakeable preconceived notions of Millennials then really you are out of touch with reality. I give up with you BG, I have too many other things to do.
[quote=bearishgurl] if one doesn’t have any student loans and made close to $100K straight out of college and has been working FT since then (with raises and promotions) as my kid(s) have.[/quote]
BG, this is not reality…I don’t think most people coming out of college have $0 in student loans, especially with the astronomical increase in tuition rates. Also there may be some like your kids making $100K out of college, but it was very unlikely for Millenials. The only friends I know that made that much were investment bankers and that’s after bonuses in Manhattan. When I got out most were getting paid between $30K-$50K. Also many didn’t keep the same job since we went through some long and deep recessions since.
bearishgurl
October 18, 2016 @
5:06 PM
millennial wrote:BG, this is [quote=millennial]BG, this is not reality…I don’t think most people coming out of college have $0 in student loans, especially with the astronomical increase in tuition rates. Also there may be some like your kids making $100K out of college, but it was very unlikely for Millenials. The only friends I know that made that much were investment bankers and that’s after bonuses in Manhattan. When I got out most were getting paid between $30K-$50K. Also many didn’t keep the same job since we went through some long and deep recessions since.[/quote]I don’t think there is that high of a percentage of current and former students who graduated from CA PUBLIC universities who took out student loans. Even with all the rate hikes since about 2004, tuition is still fairly reasonable at the UC and CSU. I think the bulk of student loans were taken out by students of “for profit” institutions and online diploma mills. Also, private universities lured in most of their freshman with generous help and then bailed on them on their sophomore year (and the student wanted to stay there so borrowed to do it). Also, most students of private occupational programs borrowed to attend their programs. Some of these students who are deeply indebted with SL’s didn’t even graduate (thru no fault of their own) because their school filed for BK and closed in the middle of their program.
Yes, my kid(s) would have made $30-$50K straight out of college had they gotten their first jobs in SD County. However, they did not. They left SD for university and never moved back. They only come back “home” for the holidays. It is well-known that companies in SD County pay much lower wages and offer less promotional opportunity/choice of companies to choose from than other urban job centers in CA for most professions … especially straight out of college.
Did you and/or your college-graduate friends obtain your first jobs after graduation in SD County, yamashi?
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
5:35 PM
(duplicate) (duplicate)
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
5:45 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
Did you [quote=bearishgurl]
Did you and/or your college-graduate friends obtain your first jobs after graduation in SD County yamashi?[/quote]
No I did not, but you’re right that SD does not pay in comparison to other high priced areas like NYC, Los Angeles, and SF. I think I’ve heard of it as “sunshine tax”. This isn’t just in SD, but it was also in other places I’ve lived like Santa Barbara, and Maui. Regarding the problems with these for-profit universities going BK was a little past my time, but the stress for every American to go to college was not. Personally I think that this is where our infrastructure goes wrong. I forget the name of the author, but basically America has fallen behind by stressing the importance of all 18 year olds to go to college even though some don’t belong (maturity level, don’t know what to do etc). Instead he stressed that we should be more like Germany and create more trade schools for people instead of college. Even better yet, while in high school. My thought is if you can’t get into the top 50 colleges in America, maybe you’re better off doing something else. Most definitely not creating $100K in order to get a bachelor’s from University of Phoenix.
gzz
October 18, 2016 @
11:40 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
if one
bearishgurl wrote:
if one doesn’t have any student loans and made close to $100K straight out of college and has been working FT since then (with raises and promotions) as my kid(s) have.
$100k salaries are given to people right out of college only in computer programming and big finance.
and most of these jobs are just in the New York and San Francisco area where rent is astronomical.
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
3:21 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
My $65K [quote=bearishgurl]
My $65K mortgage on that duplex was $774 month (P&I only) and that was a “special” interest rate backed by a state program to encourage investing in certain urban “targeted” areas. Of course, that didn’t include property taxes or insurance. [/quote]
So BG, so assuming a 30 year fixed mortgage that puts you somewhere around an interest rate of 14%. Using my current jumbo interest rate of 3.625%, the equivalent mortgage for your duplex would be $170K. Assuming a 20% down the current value of that duplex you purchased will be $212K. Now I’m not exactly sure what that duplex is worth now, but I’m sure there are not that many places within SD county you can buy for $212K.
[quote=bearishgurl]
Boomers really didn’t have the option of “shopping in areas well above their means” like millenials do today. The only reason millenials such as yamashi were able to buy the ONE home that they will raise their family in for the duration of their minority for their first home was due to mortgage interest rates of the past decade-plus being the lowest in the history of the mortgage industry.[/quote]
This is pretty elementary, but it doesn’t seem you understand that for most people a purchase for a personal residence is all about the monthly P&I payments and if they have the ability to cash flow. Because of this there is an inverse correlation between price of home and the interest rate. For instance say I purchase my home for $1.6Mn and put 20% down and have a mortgage of $1.28Mn. This would equate to a monthly P&I payment of $5,837. Assuming we went back to 1982 when you purchased your townhome and use a 14% interest rate the amount of mortgage I can support is $493K. Assuming the additional 20% I used to put down of $320K. I would be able to purchase a home for $813K back in 1982. So see basically it makes your whole argument pretty dumb…because for $813K I’m sure I could buy a lot more home in 1982 than I can now. Pretty much what is restricting Millennials right now is what I said before, which is the increase in home values in comparison to wages. We can easily calculate this by indexing the change in avg income/change in avg housing prices. I don’t have the time to search the data books now, but I assume that the ratio will definitely be less than 1.00x.
[quote=bearishgurl]
Because of this, today’s FTB (and STB/TTB) must rely solely on their W-2 incomes to increase their net worth. Meaning, they must depend on someone else to offer them the opportunities (AND retain them) instead of relying on themselves to create net worth.[/quote]
This is total B/S. There are still many ways out there to make money. Maybe it’s not the right time to flip houses, but there are still ways instead of working for someone.
[quote=bearishgurl]
We’ve got a whole generation out there who has been preoccupied exercising with their thumbs all of their lives and of whom a good portion don’t even know how to work laundry machines! They’re virtually helpless in the “survival skill” dept :=0[/quote]
I’m sure a lot of us know how to use laundry machines a lot better than you. It’s really a pretty simple device.
[quote=bearishgurl]
Unlike the boomers, the vast majority of millenials will have no pension at all.[/quote]
Probably the only correct thing you’ve said.
bearishgurl
October 18, 2016 @
3:32 PM
millennial wrote:bearishgurl [quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]
Boomers really didn’t have the option of “shopping in areas well above their means” like millenials do today. The only reason millenials such as yamashi were able to buy the ONE home that they will raise their family in for the duration of their minority for their first home was due to mortgage interest rates of the past decade-plus being the lowest in the history of the mortgage industry.[/quote]
This is pretty elementary, but it doesn’t seem you understand that for most people, a purchase for a personal residence is all about the monthly P&I payments and if they have the ability to cash flow. Because of this there is an inverse correlation between price of home and the interest rate. For instance say I purchase my home for $1.6Mn and put 20% down and have a mortgage of $1.28Mn. This would equate to a monthly P&I payment of $5,837. Assuming we went back to 1982 when you purchased your townhome and use a 14% interest rate the amount of mortgage I can support is $493K. Assuming the additional 20% I used to put down of $320K. I would be able to purchase a home for $813K back in 1982. So see basically it makes your whole argument pretty dumb…because for $813K I’m sure I could buy a lot more home in 1983 than I can now. Pretty much what is restricting me right now is what I said before, which is the increase in home values in comparison to wages. We can easily calculate this by indexing the change in avg income/change in avg housing prices. I don’t have the time to search the data books now, but I assume that the ratio will definitely be less than 1.00x.[/quote]Well, your time frame is a little off re: my ownership period and you keep using the word “townhome” in reference to my first home. Do you know the difference between “townhomes” and duplexes? And do you realize that in CA, townhomes are almost always part of a homeowner’s association? In other words, they are a (two-story) condo. A duplex is a standalone home with two units and most of them are one-story.
That’s a bi-i-i-ig stretch that a prospective homebuyer in 1982 is going to have a $320K downpayment. Obviously, employees (even the typical “professional”) didn’t make enough back then to put $320K down on their first home! You could buy a home in LJ back then for less than that!
Did you actually put $320K down on your first (and only) home in SD, yamashi? If so, how much did you pay for it? And did you purchase it before . . . or after paying off your student loan(s)?
And wages and home prices have never moved in tandem in CA coastal counties and never will. CA coastal home values (esp within 5 miles of the coast) have absolutely nothing to do with what local “worker bees” are making.
[quote=millenial][quote=bearishgurl]
Because of this, today’s FTB (and STB/TTB) must rely solely on their W-2 incomes to increase their net worth. Meaning, they must depend on someone else to offer them the opportunities (AND retain them) instead of relying on themselves to create net worth.[/quote]
This is total B/S. There are many ways out there to make money. For instance, be an Uber driver.[/quote]Um, yamashi, do you actually think being a (part-time?) “uber driver” is going to fuel your net worth (or retirement fund) as much as buying RE, using “sweat equity” to improve it and reselling it would (assuming it is reasonably close to the CA coast)? I would think driving for uber would be akin to waiting tables or tending bar one night a week. It gives the part-time worker a little extra money to spend on a hobby or kids’ activities. It’s not even in the same league as investing in RE.
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
4:01 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
Well, your [quote=bearishgurl]
Well, your time frame is a little off re: my ownership period and you keep using the word “townhome” in reference to my first home. Do you know the difference between “townhomes” and duplexes? And do you realize that in CA, townhomes are almost always part of a homeowner’s association? In other words, they are a (two-story) condo. A duplex is a standalone home with two units and most of them are one-story.[/quote]
I just guessed your timeframe based on the interest rate and honestly I could care less if your first home was a duplex or a townhome. Really its moot because I was trying to drive home a point that people now are very much restricted and regardless of interest rates home affordability now is way less than what you could get in 1982 even with the high interest rates back then.
[quote=bearishgurl] That’s a bi-i-i-ig stretch that a prospective homebuyer in 1982 is going to have a $320K downpayment. Obviously, employees (even the typical “professional”) didn’t make enough back then to put $320K down on their first home! You could buy a home in LJ back then for less than that![/quote]
yes exactly so maybe you should stop criticizing Millennials about not having the 20% down.
[quote=bearishgurl] Did you actually put $320K down on your first (and only) home in SD.[/quote]
Yes I put 20% down as required to get a 30/30 jumbo loan. In hindsight I should have done a 10 year ARM and refinanced, but too much of a gamble I guess. Like I said, I buy my first home until my mid 30’s. The reasons were #1 wanted to stay flexible, #2 would rather used the money for investments, #3 not necessary since I didn’t have many kids.
[quote=bearishgurl]
And wages and home prices have never moved in tandem in CA coastal counties and never will. CA coastal home values (esp within 5 miles of the coast) have absolutely nothing to do with what local “worker bees” are making.[/quote]
Yes, but I’m sure that the disparity has grown significantly.
bearishgurl
October 18, 2016 @
4:27 PM
millennial wrote:bearishgurl [quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]
And wages and home prices have never moved in tandem in CA coastal counties and never will. CA coastal home values (esp within 5 miles of the coast) have absolutely nothing to do with what local “worker bees” are making.[/quote]
Yes, but I’m sure that the disparity has grown significantly.[/quote]Even if true, why should this matter? Should “worker bees” be entitled to buy a single family home within ~5 miles of the CA (urban) coast? For example, they weren’t entitled to buy their first home in OB (SD) back in the 1970’s and they aren’t entitled to now. Nothing has changed.
bearishgurl
October 18, 2016 @
3:48 PM
yamashi/millenial, do you yamashi/millenial, do you realize that there ARE still SFR’s available from the low $300K’s to $400K in SD East County and Inland North County? Also in 7 zip codes in east/southeast San Diego as well as Otay Mesa/Nestor/SY (urban) as well as southwest Chula Vista. Yes, they are far and few between and many are “pocket listings” (not listed on the MLS). But they are there.
millennial
October 18, 2016 @
4:11 PM
bearishgurl [quote=bearishgurl]yamashi/millenial, do you realize that there ARE still SFR’s available from the low $300K’s to $400K in SD East County and Inland North County? Also in 7 zip codes in east/southeast San Diego as well as Otay Mesa/Nestor/SY (urban) as well as southwest Chula Vista. Yes, they are far and few between and many are “pocket listings” (not listed on the MLS). But they are there.[/quote]
Soo….your point being? Not in the market and I don’t see how that adds to your point. So basically someone who wants to buy a home in those areas would need $80K to put down and be able to come up with about $1,500/month pretax. I’m not a mortgage lender, but if this is where George the Plumber lives he probably should be making 6 figures and saving like crazy if he wants a home before he turns 30.
bearishgurl
October 18, 2016 @
4:14 PM
millennial wrote:bearishgurl [quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]yamashi/millenial, do you realize that there ARE still SFR’s available from the low $300K’s to $400K in SD East County and Inland North County? Also in 7 zip codes in east/southeast San Diego as well as Otay Mesa/Nestor/SY (urban) as well as southwest Chula Vista. Yes, they are far and few between and many are “pocket listings” (not listed on the MLS). But they are there.[/quote]
Soo….your point being?[/quote]My point was that a FTB doesn’t need $100K down to purchase a home in SD … even today. They can use FHA (or VA if they are eligible) and if they have excellent credit, they can qualify for a (Fannie/Freddie backed) 90% conventional loan (w/ [temporary] PMI). Yes, most of these homes need a little work (gasp!).
FlyerInHi
October 18, 2016 @
3:57 PM
I like that millennials are I like that millennials are knowledgeable about the food they eat. Boomers are not very adventurous.
sdsurfer
October 19, 2016 @
3:05 PM
This post reminds me of that This post reminds me of that book “The Millionaire next door” where they talk about such a high percentage of millionaires being first generation immigrants, but then their kids tend to lose it all because they do not have the drive their parents had to succeed.
millennial
October 20, 2016 @
8:59 AM
sdsurfer wrote:This post [quote=sdsurfer]This post reminds me of that book “The Millionaire next door” where they talk about such a high percentage of millionaires being first generation immigrants, but then their kids tend to lose it all because they do not have the drive their parents had to succeed.[/quote]
Or like Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. There is definitely a drop off between generations. It also happens when a family is rich for a long period of time.
October 9, 2016 @ 11:37 PM
Not really, but they were
Not really, but they were amazingly supportive while I figured it out myself. Like most older Americans, I ran the streets til dark all through elementary school, (no homework) ran the streets in high school a lot later and didn’t study much. And somehow seem a lot smarter then all the millennials I’ve met that have hours of homework every night from K-12.
I’m going to find out what the heck is going on in our schools when mine start next year.
October 10, 2016 @ 6:05 AM
LJR. Oh yea you’re going to
LJR. Oh yea you’re going to find out…
Seriously, mine started last year, total eye opener. Honestly, the major drumbeats of both sides are all correct. Next year, our school district decided to move the year start up one week earlier, we will be a solid two weeks before Labor Day, the justification? Give the kids more time to prepare for AP and SAT tests.
October 10, 2016 @ 10:50 AM
NSR, when I went to school
NSR, when I went to school in Europe, I went to class half day Saturday. No complaints.
If some parents make their kids study harder, isn’t that teaching them endurance and making sacrifices in life, playing by the rules and becoming excellent?
October 10, 2016 @ 1:33 PM
I think a lot of folks on
I think a lot of folks on this site would say yes. This site was originally for skeptics, those who did not believe the housing propaganda of the aughts. There will be sampling bias.
as for me, didn’t have a choice. growing up on welfare means you have to rely on yourself once you are of voting age. So yes.
October 10, 2016 @ 9:04 PM
bobby I am somewhat surprised
bobby I am somewhat surprised that your parents had the foresight to teach you how to be self sufficient when they didn’t seem to be, so I’m not saying are you successful in life but did your parents instill that success in you, and not by being a bad example that would not really count. My mom was on a form of welfare (deseret) which is the Mormon church helping out, which I applaud them for as I don’t know that that happens in the other churches as much. She did not teach me how to balance a check book or the evils of credit cards or how to write a business plan. Yet my siblings and I are all doing well now, but not because of parents.
October 11, 2016 @ 5:44 PM
moneymaker wrote:bobby I am
[quote=moneymaker]bobby I am somewhat surprised that your parents had the foresight to teach you how to be self sufficient when they didn’t seem to be, so I’m not saying are you successful in life but did your parents instill that success in you, and not by being a bad example that would not really count. My mom was on a form of welfare (deseret) which is the Mormon church helping out, which I applaud them for as I don’t know that that happens in the other churches as much. She did not teach me how to balance a check book or the evils of credit cards or how to write a business plan. Yet my siblings and I are all doing well now, but not because of parents.[/quote]
well… it’s a little more complicated than that.
we immigrated here from war-torn country. Father not in picture so welfare was only way to survive. luckily mother was responsible in raising us and stressed education so we all turned out OK.
October 11, 2016 @ 5:48 PM
I think I would be really
I think I would be really good at being homeless. If it were only not so taboo and
dangerous.
October 12, 2016 @ 12:55 PM
Blogstar wrote:I think I
[quote=Blogstar]I think I would be really good at being homeless. If it were only not so taboo and
dangerous.[/quote]
much easier with a van.
October 11, 2016 @ 8:18 PM
Glad to hear that bobby! Just
Glad to hear that bobby! Just found out today that my half brother is going to be staying in jail for a while, so guess he didn’t learn any valuable lessons from my dad.
October 12, 2016 @ 12:54 PM
my dad seemed to hate work so
my dad seemed to hate work so much it made me very hesitant to get a f/t job.
October 11, 2016 @ 12:21 AM
FlyerInHi wrote:NSR, when I
[quote=FlyerInHi]NSR, when I went to school in Europe, I went to class half day Saturday. No complaints.
If some parents make their kids study harder, isn’t that teaching them endurance and making sacrifices in life, playing by the rules and becoming excellent?[/quote]
Did you get any time off on Wednesday? Many schools in Catholic countries had shortened days on Wednesday’s to make time for religious education (at least this is what I’ve been told).
So let’s say you spend a zillion hours to become “excellent” and then spend one hour being excellent before you die. Is that a good idea? If not, what is the right balance? No parent doubts the importance of study, endurance or sacrifice. The question, as with everything, is: when have you done enough? How much sacrifice is too much? And what if you wake up at 45 and decide you’ve wasted your time?
Good parents want their kids to be happy and healthy and safe. How you get there is the subject of some debate.
October 12, 2016 @ 1:34 PM
njtosd wrote:FlyerInHi
[quote=njtosd][quote=FlyerInHi]NSR, when I went to school in Europe, I went to class half day Saturday. No complaints.
If some parents make their kids study harder, isn’t that teaching them endurance and making sacrifices in life, playing by the rules and becoming excellent?[/quote]
Did you get any time off on Wednesday? Many schools in Catholic countries had shortened days on Wednesday’s to make time for religious education (at least this is what I’ve been told).
So let’s say you spend a zillion hours to become “excellent” and then spend one hour being excellent before you die. Is that a good idea? If not, what is the right balance? No parent doubts the importance of study, endurance or sacrifice. The question, as with everything, is: when have you done enough? How much sacrifice is too much? And what if you wake up at 45 and decide you’ve wasted your time?
Good parents want their kids to be happy and healthy and safe. How you get there is the subject of some debate.[/quote]
njtosd, I’m playing the devil’s advocate a little bit.
Did you watch the Frontline documentary on Trump and Clinton? I’m sure the stories are exaggerated but they were driven.
October 11, 2016 @ 9:34 AM
La Jolla Renter wrote:Not
[quote=La Jolla Renter]Not really, but they were amazingly supportive while I figured it out myself. Like most older Americans, I ran the streets til dark all through elementary school, (no homework) ran the streets in high school a lot later and didn’t study much. And somehow seem a lot smarter then all the millennials I’ve met that have hours of homework every night from K-12.
I’m going to find out what the heck is going on in our schools when mine start next year.[/quote]
As a millennial, I’m going to ignore your idiotic remark regarding millennials, since it’s a worthless statement and has no real substance behind it. Also since you feel this way, maybe you should let your kids run in the dark through all of elementary school. Meanwhile, my three kids will be using the time wisely so they can set themselves up for later in life.
Personally my parents were like yours and although I had a lot of fun growing up, I really feel like my time would have been better spent elsewhere.
October 17, 2016 @ 9:49 AM
millennial wrote:La Jolla
[quote=millennial][quote=La Jolla Renter]Not really, but they were amazingly supportive while I figured it out myself. Like most older Americans, I ran the streets til dark all through elementary school, (no homework) ran the streets in high school a lot later and didn’t study much. And somehow seem a lot smarter then all the millennials I’ve met that have hours of homework every night from K-12.
I’m going to find out what the heck is going on in our schools when mine start next year.[/quote]
As a millennial, I’m going to ignore your idiotic remark regarding millennials, since it’s a worthless statement and has no real substance behind it. Also since you feel this way, maybe you should let your kids run in the dark through all of elementary school. Meanwhile, my three kids will be using the time wisely so they can set themselves up for later in life.
Personally my parents were like yours and although I had a lot of fun growing up, I really feel like my time would have been better spent elsewhere.[/quote]
Just stating my slightly exaggerated opinion to express a point that “millennials” have/had more homework than ever and overall, they may even be less smart. So, again IMO, our education system is broken.
My point was certainly not to promote that we should ditch homework and let kids run wild once again. That world/society is a thing of the past.
As for my kids, they are/will be amazingly happy, wicked smart and absolutely most important, be able to see the forest thought trees (or “for” the trees depending upon how you like it). Which I think is a big struggle for millennials.
October 17, 2016 @ 10:44 AM
La Jolla Renter wrote:
Just
[quote=La Jolla Renter]
Just stating my slightly exaggerated opinion to express a point that “millennials” have/had more homework than ever and overall, they may even be less smart. So, again IMO, our education system is broken.
My point was certainly not to promote that we should ditch homework and let kids run wild once again. That world/society is a thing of the past.
As for my kids, they are/will be amazingly happy, wicked smart and absolutely most important, be able to see the forest thought trees (or “for” the trees depending upon how you like it). Which I think is a big struggle for millennials.[/quote]
Why use exaggerations to say this? Is this because you’re talking out of your ass?
Here is an interesting video on Ted Talk.
https://www.ted.com/talks/james_flynn_why_our_iq_levels_are_higher_than_our_grandparents
Next time show me some proof behind your false remarks. You feel kids from the Millennial Generation had more homework and are equal to or not as smart as your generation. Is this IQ/EQ, how do you define “smart”?
Regarding your kids, I am very happy that you don’t let them roam the streets, since I wouldn’t want to hit them in unlit areas. I don’t know if you require your kids to do their school work, but it sounds like you probably don’t since you believe that there is an inverse correlation between these two variables.
You think that Millenials struggle with seeing the big picture, yet we continue to utilize technologies in ways people never thought of. People from older generations like Asimov and Dick envisioned some of these things, but we are building them and making them realities. We took old services like jitneys and made them into Uber employing many more thousands. We also helped create manless space shuttles and make the world smaller using social media. Is this not big picture enough for you? Please explain.
October 17, 2016 @ 11:31 AM
Thanks for proving my point.
Thanks for proving my point. 🙂
October 17, 2016 @ 1:55 PM
La Jolla Renter wrote:Thanks
[quote=La Jolla Renter]Thanks for proving my point. :)[/quote]
No. Thanks for proving mine 😀
October 17, 2016 @ 12:10 PM
millennial wrote:La Jolla
[quote=millennial][quote=La Jolla Renter]
Just stating my slightly exaggerated opinion to express a point that “millennials” have/had more homework than ever and overall, they may even be less smart. So, again IMO, our education system is broken.
My point was certainly not to promote that we should ditch homework and let kids run wild once again. That world/society is a thing of the past.
As for my kids, they are/will be amazingly happy, wicked smart and absolutely most important, be able to see the forest thought trees (or “for” the trees depending upon how you like it). Which I think is a big struggle for millennials.[/quote]
Why use exaggerations to say this? Is this because you’re talking out of your ass?
Here is an interesting video on Ted Talk.
https://www.ted.com/talks/james_flynn_why_our_iq_levels_are_higher_than_our_grandparents
Next time show me some proof behind your false remarks. You feel kids from the Millennial Generation had more homework and are equal to or not as smart as your generation. Is this IQ/EQ, how do you define “smart”?
Regarding your kids, I am very happy that you don’t let them roam the streets, since I wouldn’t want to hit them in unlit areas. I don’t know if you require your kids to do their school work, but it sounds like you probably don’t. You think that Millenials struggle with seeing the big picture, yet we continue to utilize technologies in ways people never thought of.[/quote]If LJRenter means what I think he means, he is discussing the vast majority of millenials who refuse to pay their dues and bide their time. They want everything NOW or they feel like a failure. Most of them must have a late model or new vehicle and a $600-$800+ smart phone (+ the required monthly service for it) before they can begin thinking about paying for a roof over their heads. Hence, the millions of “basement dwellers” that Clinton mentioned in front of a group of her donors. They’re still in their parent(s) basement in their late 20’s/early ’30’s because they couldn’t make any sacrifices to their lifestyles to get thru college and thus borrowed way too much in student loans to supplement at least four years of living expenses while a (lowly) undergrad and are now whining about having to pay the piper. This same group is extremely picky about where they are willing to live and where they are willing to work. When they finally DO land a decent FT job in the locale of their choice (or close to it), they can’t “settle” for a well-used home when they finally qualify to get a mortgage, they can’t “settle” for older electronics donated to them to set up their first household and can’t “settle” for used furnishings and household items donated to them. Everything must be *new* and many millenials quit decent, FT jobs which don’t promote them fast enough for their liking and/or allow them to be absent from the workplace periodically (telecommuting, work from home and leaves of absence) enough to their liking. They don’t have the patience or wherewithal to work a whole year after beginning a FT job to earn a 2-week vacation.
Even though they didn’t take out student loans, My kids are no exception to the above and that is why they don’t have savings for a downpayment in spite of making an excellent salary … even for well over a decade!
In short, millenials want to live with the level of security and amenities their 45-65 year old parents enjoy straight out of the gate of life and will “settle” for nothing less.
Witness the high competition for rentals in choice CA cities by prospective tenants who ostensibly make enough money to qualify for a mortgage but can’t because they have too much debt. They did it to themselves.
http://www.zillow.com/blog/most-competitive-renters-206166/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=emm-1016_rentalbuzzmostqualifiedrenters-seelistbutton
For example, Boomers . . . like me (yes, both semi-“professionals” employed FT at the time) bought a duplex on the likes of 47th Street in SD in our early 20’s for just over $70K and moved in one side and rented out the other side. We had 3 well-used vehicles between us (with 75-125K miles on them) and furnished our living/dining room combo with $10 bean bag chairs, macrame pot hangers received as gifts, a $39.99 hi-back 5-pc plastic dinette and “cast-off” 2 x 12″ unpainted boards and cinder blocks to hold my HS turntable and receiver and my spouse’s wood speakers. We bought used appliances from a friend who was moving out of state and my mom gave us her old portable B/W TV which we used for over 10 more years … with “rabbit ears.” We even got free cat furniture (used) and recarpeted some of it!
Our bdrm furniture was also well-used, scratched (even gouged) and needed refinishing as was my short bookshelf which I painted green in HS, lol.
There is NO WAY IN H@LL ANY millenial would live like the above …. ESPecially on carpet that a previous owner installed or use an older stove, frig or dishwasher that existed in the home they just bought! Eeeew! They feel that if the home they just bought is more than 15 years old, it needs to be completely “updated” and perfect before they move a stick of furniture in, lol). It never occurs to them to just spend a day cleaning the older (still functional) appls!
Several property purchases later (in SD County), I am “financially secure.”
I have a “failure-to-save-$$-towards-a-downpayment” convo with my kid(s) almost every time I see them (usually decked out in designer clothing and sporting designer accessories, an $800 – $100 iphone, and, of course, driving a late-model vehicle).
I’ve come to the conclusion that the bulk of (CA) millenials don’t really want to own a home …. certainly not bad enough to pay down their accumulated debt (much of it left over from their “living large” college years) in order to qualify for a mortgage. We boomers had very little in the way of credit cards at our disposal back then (and they certainly did not have more than a few hundred in credit limits) and debit cards did not exist. Thus, we were used to spending “real cash greenbacks” for things as well as vehicles (nearly always used, from an individual), obviously making our generation much more conscious of our spending.
October 17, 2016 @ 2:27 PM
Some things to consider:
Some things to consider:
Housing is now a lot more expensive as a proportion of income.
I know a boomer who grew up in rural Pennsylvania without plumbing. We have higher standards now.
Boomers created stupid zoning that is causing sprawl and expensive housing.
Millenials also like to live in more expensive urban areas.
October 17, 2016 @ 3:13 PM
bearishgurl wrote:If LJRenter
[quote=bearishgurl]If LJRenter means what I think he means, he is discussing the vast majority of millenials who refuse to pay their dues and bide their time. They want everything NOW or they feel like a failure.[/quote]
Really? You speaking for LJR now? Are you really LJR in disguise? What I think is that you are trying to use this as a way to express your real opinions, just like many Trump voters are using him as a way to feel better at night for being ignorant. He said none of that.
I really think that LJR was overreacting to elicit a response. What he’s trying to say is that kids these days (not sure if he really means millennials) are studying too hard and spending too much time doing homework that they are equal to, or dumber than previous generations. Also that they can’t see big picture…except his kids of course.
[quote=bearishgurl]
Most of them must have a late model or new vehicle and a $600-$800+ smart phone (+ the required monthly service for it) before they can begin thinking about paying for a roof over their heads. [/quote]
Where do you get this info? Is this from you observations at the tax assessor office? You do realize that all these things you discuss actually refer to the Baby Boomer Generation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomers
Anyways, I’m fine with people getting a smartphone; it’s a fantastic device. I can take a taxi home after a night out, I can trade my stocks, people can find dates etc.. If I wasn’t married with 3 kids I wouldn’t even think about owning a personal residence. To tell you the truth, owning a personal residence kinda sucks. I would much rather put it into investments that generate cash flow, or even spend it taking a trip to the moon. If I’m not going to make money off of it, I would rather create fantastic memories.
[quote=bearishgurl]
Hence, the millions of “basement dwellers” that Clinton mentioned in front of a group of her donors. They’re still in their parent(s) basement in their late 20’s/early ’30’s because they couldn’t make any sacrifices to their lifestyles to get thru college and thus borrowed way too much in student loans to supplement at least four years of living expenses while a (lowly) undergrad and are now whining about having to pay the piper.
[/quote]
There are a lot of reasons why our generation don’t own homes themselves. The first being that housing prices have gone up significantly especially compared to the pay of entry level jobs. You do realize that this doesn’t affect just America, but many other countries such as Korea and Japan this has been the norm for quite a while. Any area with a long recession and expensive housing will have this; it’s not a product of our generation. Secondly, student loan debt is due to the increase in the price of college. For instance, my father was able to go to an in-state college in California for free. This college now would cost $56k over 4 years for in-state tuition. If you lived out of state it’s now over $160k. I don’t think it’s fair for you to throw this on us, when you got your college for free.
[quote=bearishgurl]This same group is extremely picky about where they are willing to live and where they are willing to work. When they finally DO land a decent FT job in the locale of their choice (or close to it), they can’t “settle” for a well-used home when they finally qualify to get a mortgage, they can’t “settle” for older electronics donated to them to set up their first household and can’t “settle” for used furnishings and household items donated to them. [/quote]
I don’t know if this relates to “millennials”, or just people in general. I really think that there have always been early adopters who want the newest and greatest. I’m sure there are a lot of Boomers driving the fanciest and newest Porsches that just came out. I watched Wall Street and Ferris Bueller’s from your generation. Those guys liked to drive fancy cars too.
[quote=bearishgurl] Everything must be *new* and many millenials quit decent, FT jobs which don’t promote them fast enough for their liking and/or allow them to be absent from the workplace periodically (telecommuting, work from home and leaves of absence) enough to their liking. [/quote]
You’re probably right about this. I think that the numerous recessions and layoffs we’ve went through shows that there is no loyalty between employer and employee anymore. No job is 100% safe…even government jobs. We are the generation where people can’t retire with a pension and be with one company anymore. We continuously evolve professionally and our loyalties lie with our family and our friends and not with the company.
[quote=bearishgurl]
Witness the high competition for rentals in choice CA cities by prospective tenants who ostensibly make enough money to qualify for a mortgage but can’t because they have too much debt. They did it to themselves.[/quote]
Stupid irresponsible doctor/lawyer for taking out that student loan. They should’ve just worked at McDonalds for the rest of their lives so they can one day get a house!! Give me a break…those debts will go down from excess cash flow and one day they will be able to buy a house.
[quote=bearishgurl]
For example, Boomers . . . like me (yes, both semi-“professionals” employed FT at the time) bought a duplex on the likes of 47th Street in SD in our early 20’s for just over $70K and moved in one side and rented out the other side…[/quote]
What is a semi-professional? Is that a Boomer word for a person with a full time job? I don’t consider myself a semi-pro, or a professional but hold a full-time job. However I consider my wife and friends professionals, since they have CPA, JD’s and MD’s.
$70k for a town-home! Wow are you sure that was in SD, I’m going to pay more than that for my Tesla.
[quote=bearishgurl]
There is NO WAY IN H@LL ANY millenial would live like the above …. ESPecially on carpet that a previous owner installed or use an older stove, frig or dishwasher that existed in the home they just bought! Eeeew! They feel that if the home they just bought is more than 15 years old, it needs to be completely “updated” and perfect before they move a stick of furniture in, lol).[/quote]
Well after working for 15-20 years and making good money, why would we deal with any of that? Sounds kind of ridiculous for a 30-40 year old to be living like a college kid. Great for you that you did it. You should pat yourself on the back for that.
[quote=bearishgurl]
I’ve come to the conclusion that the bulk of (CA) millenials don’t really want to own a home …. certainly not bad enough to pay down their accumulated debt (much of it left over from their “living large” college years.[/quote])
Discussed this above.
[quote=bearishgurl] We boomers had very little in the way of credit cards at our disposal back then (and they certainly did not have more than a few hundred in credit limits) and debit cards did not exist. Thus, we were used to spending “real cash greenbacks” for things as well as vehicles (nearly always used, from an individual), obviously making our generation much more conscious of our spending.[/quote]
You do realize that expansionary policies implemented during your generation and followed by the rest of your boomer presidents created a lot of this. Creation of ARM’s and all this creative financing. The advent of credit cards were all done during your time.
October 10, 2016 @ 3:24 PM
Yes.
My father named me Sue.
Yes.
My father named me Sue.
October 11, 2016 @ 3:39 PM
Maybe not represented on this
Maybe not represented on this board but boomers for the most part were free range kids who mostly had to fend for themselves.
Anyway IMO
October 14, 2016 @ 9:24 AM
Most of what I picked up from
Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I’m mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.
To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.
October 14, 2016 @ 9:52 AM
The issue of being a joiner
The issue of being a joiner or not is huge. I just recently told my wife that it is the biggest area in which I want my kids to be different than me.
Maybe there should be a group for us , something like non-joiners anonymous.
October 14, 2016 @ 10:31 AM
Balboa_Again wrote:Most of
[quote=Balboa_Again]Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I’m mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.
To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.[/quote]
It’s funny because I’m exactly the same way, whereas I don’t take huge risks, but I always attribute it to growing up with parents who were upper middle class. I sometimes wish I had that “nothing to lose” mentality.
Although my wife doesn’t believe it, I feel that communities are very important to happiness. I think I’m going to add that to my list of things to teach my children.
October 14, 2016 @ 11:10 AM
Taking huge all or nothing
Taking huge all or nothing risks is a mental illness.
People who succeed are elevated, but nobody talks about the vast majority who fail.
You always need a baseline security blanket.
For example if you take risks and suddenly come into wealth, you will be celebrated and plenty of people will want to be your friends. When you take another risk and lose it all, people will sneer at you for being a fake. I have the feeling that’s the fate Trump will suffer
October 14, 2016 @ 1:45 PM
FlyerInHi wrote:Taking huge
[quote=FlyerInHi]Taking huge all or nothing risks is a mental illness.
People who succeed are elevated, but nobody talks about the vast majority who fail.
You always need a baseline security blanket.
For example if you take risks and suddenly come into wealth, you will be celebrated and plenty of people will want to be your friends. When you take another risk and lose it all, people will sneer at you for being a fake. I have the feeling that’s the fate Trump will suffer[/quote]
I don’t think there are a lot of all or nothing risks out there. At the end of the day most people always have a security blanket like family and/ community, and America has lenient bankruptcy laws.
Trump will probably lose something, but not everything since he rarely signs personal guarantees. Either way he’ll be fine in the end.
October 14, 2016 @ 2:51 PM
millennial wrote:Balboa_Again
[quote=millennial][quote=Balboa_Again]Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I’m mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.
To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.[/quote]
It’s funny because I’m exactly the same way, whereas I don’t take huge risks, but I always attribute it to growing up with parents who were upper middle class. I sometimes wish I had that “nothing to lose” mentality.
Although my wife doesn’t believe it, I feel that communities are very important to happiness. I think I’m going to add that to my list of things to teach my children.[/quote]
This is an easy one: (1) Name the top three fun memories you have, or even the top 10; (2) Answer this question – were you alone for any of those experiences? My guess is that the answer for most people would be no for all of them. Worst experiences – probably the same. Communities, friend groups, whatever, make life good (or miserable according to the person who coined the phrase “hell is other people”).
Being alone is easy but not fun. Being with people can be more difficult and more work (more views to take into account, more compromise, more diapers to change, more milk to buy) but is almost always more fun.
October 14, 2016 @ 4:50 PM
njtosd wrote:millennial
[quote=njtosd][quote=millennial][quote=Balboa_Again]Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I’m mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.
To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.[/quote]
It’s funny because I’m exactly the same way, whereas I don’t take huge risks, but I always attribute it to growing up with parents who were upper middle class. I sometimes wish I had that “nothing to lose” mentality.
Although my wife doesn’t believe it, I feel that communities are very important to happiness. I think I’m going to add that to my list of things to teach my children.[/quote]
This is an easy one: (1) Name the top three fun memories you have, or even the top 10; (2) Answer this question – were you alone for any of those experiences? My guess is that the answer for most people would be no for all of them. Worst experiences – probably the same. Communities, friend groups, whatever, make life good (or miserable according to the person who coined the phrase “hell is other people”).
Being alone is easy but not fun. Being with people can be more difficult and more work (more views to take into account, more compromise, more diapers to change, more milk to buy) but is almost always more fun.[/quote]
Sources of happiness:
Belonging to a community
Spending money to create memories
Giving to others
Forgot which book I read this in but they were multiple studies which proved this.
October 14, 2016 @ 4:58 PM
njtosd wrote:millennial
[quote=njtosd][quote=millennial][quote=Balboa_Again]Most of what I picked up from my parents was negative know-how. I am an extremely risk-avoidant adult in all areas of my life, not because of helicopter parenting, but because of the precariousness of financial, social and emotional situations when I was growing up. Now that I’m mid-30s, I can see how mitigating all those risks also mitigates some richness of experience, but old habits are hard to break.
To be honest, the thing I wish my parents had conveyed was how to join, build or otherwise be part of communities.[/quote]
It’s funny because I’m exactly the same way, whereas I don’t take huge risks, but I always attribute it to growing up with parents who were upper middle class. I sometimes wish I had that “nothing to lose” mentality.
Although my wife doesn’t believe it, I feel that communities are very important to happiness. I think I’m going to add that to my list of things to teach my children.[/quote]
This is an easy one: (1) Name the top three fun memories you have, or even the top 10; (2) Answer this question – were you alone for any of those experiences? My guess is that the answer for most people would be no for all of them. Worst experiences – probably the same. Communities, friend groups, whatever, make life good (or miserable according to the person who coined the phrase “hell is other people”).
Being alone is easy but not fun. Being with people can be more difficult and more work (more views to take into account, more compromise, more diapers to change, more milk to buy) but is almost always more fun.[/quote]
one of my happiest memories was a long solo bike trip.
October 16, 2016 @ 9:19 AM
scaredyclassic wrote:
one of
[quote=scaredyclassic]
one of my happiest memories was a long solo bike trip.[/quote]
One of my best moments was a very solitary enjoyment, even though I wasn’t alone. Sunrise on top of a temple in Tikal in Guatemala — even my fellow tourists couldn’t ruin it. 🙂
October 16, 2016 @ 10:31 AM
not sure i learned how to be
not sure i learned how to be a man.
October 16, 2016 @ 1:30 PM
Balboa wrote:scaredyclassic
[quote=Balboa][quote=scaredyclassic]
one of my happiest memories was a long solo bike trip.[/quote]
One of my best moments was a very solitary enjoyment, even though I wasn’t alone. Sunrise on top of a temple in Tikal in Guatemala — even my fellow tourists couldn’t ruin it. :)[/quote]
The simple presence of other people often enhances the experience. Not sure why. I am currently taking a Krav Maga fitness class. I began to think that I could do at least some of it alone, and that would be more convenient, but it wouldn’t be as much fun. And no, I’m not to the point where we actually try to work with partners, just bags.
October 16, 2016 @ 3:22 PM
agreed. id like to join a
agreed. id like to join a bowling league. not sure i can consistently break 100 tho.
i do have my own bowling shoes now tho.
October 18, 2016 @ 11:21 PM
agreed. id like to join a
I like bowling but if I play more than 2 games at once I get a very mild finger pain that makes me worried I will get carpel tunnel if I play a lot.
Are there some sports medicine doctors who specialize in bowling who can tell me if I have anything to worry about?
October 19, 2016 @ 7:08 AM
gzz wrote:
agreed. id like to
[quote=gzz]
I like bowling but if I play more than 2 games at once I get a very mild finger pain that makes me worried I will get carpel tunnel if I play a lot.
Are there some sports medicine doctors who specialize in bowling who can tell me if I have anything to worry about?[/quote]
Probably just need adaptation. Start slow and easy. Bowling is a unique activity for the hands and wrists. Train your hands.
October 17, 2016 @ 10:03 AM
Anyone watch: Surfwise, a
Anyone watch: Surfwise, a documentary on netflix?
I watched it last week. Bizarre and very thought provoking on countless levels. (A great election distraction)
Doug Pray’s documentary delves into the often inspiring, sometimes shocking life of 85-year-old Dorian “Doc” Paskowitz, a renowned surfer, surf camp owner, doctor and sex guru who, together with his wife, brought up nine children. Paskowitz raised his family in a camper on the beach, home-schooling them and requiring them to follow a strict lifestyle regimen. Now, his grown children speak out about how their unique upbringing affected them.
October 17, 2016 @ 12:40 PM
Bears got a great team this
Bears got a great team this year. They’re gonna go all the way.
October 17, 2016 @ 1:54 PM
Balboa_Again wrote:Bears got
[quote=Balboa_Again]Bears got a great team this year. They’re gonna go all the way.[/quote]
You’re crazy! They just got beat by the Jags. Maybe the only thing they got going is that Cutler is out.
October 17, 2016 @ 3:22 PM
millennial wrote:Balboa_Again
[quote=millennial][quote=Balboa_Again]Bears got a great team this year. They’re gonna go all the way.[/quote]
You’re crazy! They just got beat by the Jags. Maybe the only thing they got going is that Cutler is out.[/quote]I stand by my statement as both a quote from “Planes, Trains and Automobiles” and “Not the Craziest Post In The Thread Even If I Was Contemplating Actual Team Prospects.”
October 17, 2016 @ 3:36 PM
Balboa_Again wrote:I stand by
[quote=Balboa_Again]I stand by my statement as both a quote from “Planes, Trains and Automobiles” and “Not the Craziest Post In The Thread Even If I Was Contemplating Actual Team Prospects.”[/quote]
I’ll second that.
October 17, 2016 @ 4:06 PM
millenial, I was discussing
millenial, I was discussing TWO UNITS (i.e. duplex) for $70K, each ~1000 sf with their own garage! They were in an urban, long-ago developed area. Yes . . . IN SD proper.
The millenials with big student loan payments today didn’t ALL become “professionals.” In many cases, most of their student-loan proceeds was used to pay rent for luxury apts, dine out often and visit bars and salons regularly (esp if they were in-state students enrolled in their home-state universities and thus had low tuition and fees). I know this for a fact. In some cases, the student who left college with a big monthly SL payment didn’t even graduate (or graduated in a field which has a dearth of jobs, especially WHERE they want to reside).
I was discussing FIRST TIME homebuyers (“FTB”‘s) who need to first spend $10-$50K (most or all on “credit,” since the bulk of their savings was just spent on a downpayment) “updating” a house they just bought before they ever move a stick of furniture in . . . NOT “40-year olds.” They can’t possibly live with anything already installed in the home and change it out room by room as they can comfortably afford to. This is what the boomers did. Of course, there wasn’t the proliferation of new subdivisions to choose from for boomers because Community Facilities Districts (which use MR bonds to pay for new infrastructure) had not yet been formed in SD County.
And ARMS were actually GREAT mortgages to have until the sub-prime boom beginning in 2004 when all the GOOD things about them were eliminated and all the EXOTIC “don’t ask/don’t tell” provisions were added to them!
Boomers didn’t think of buying a home only if they had kids. Boomers thought of buying a home as an investment (to use to climb the “homebuying ladder” to a better home later) and to create net worth. Having kids had nothing to do with it.
Today’s FTB’s don’t want the “starter home” that was “good enough” for us. They want a bigger, more modern home exactly in their area of choice (within reason) or they will continue renting . . . that is, until they are priced out of rentals in their “choice” area. Then they’ll move into their 2nd and 3rd choice areas until their lives become unbearable with their daily commute. They don’t WANT the stability of owning a more centrally-located home where they would have a short commute to a variety of job centers. Like you said, not if it interferes with saving their downpayment for a Tesla :=0
October 17, 2016 @ 5:07 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
The
[quote=bearishgurl]
The millenials with big student loan payments today didn’t ALL become “professionals.” In many cases, most of their student-loan proceeds was used to pay rent for luxury apts, dine out often and visit bars and salons regularly (esp if they were in-state students enrolled in their home-state universities and thus had low tuition and fees). I know this for a fact. [/quote]
Well I’m sure there are some of these people…me included. I used my student loan money to invest in some Apple stock, pay for beers, and also to pay for housing. Did 4-5 years of this lifestyle create a burden that I couldn’t overcome? Nope. Now would 160k of student loans to pay for 4 years at Berkley…probably. Lucky dad put aside money in the MET (Michigan Educational Trust) so I could get my tuition covered for free. Many of my classmates with “me gen” parents, not so much.
[quote=bearishgurl]
In some cases, the student who left college with a big monthly SL payment didn’t even graduate (or graduated in a field which has a dearth of jobs, especially WHERE they want to reside).[/quote]
Yes. I learned from my dad…do not graduate in Psychology. Thank god college was free for him.
[quote=bearishgurl]I was discussing FIRST TIME homebuyers (“FTB”‘s) who need to first spend $10-$50K (most or all on “credit,” since the bulk of their savings was just spent on a downpayment) “updating” a house they just bought before they ever move a stick of furniture in . . . NOT “40-year olds.” [/quote]
Well I’m a FTB and just paid for carpeting, and furniture on credit. Why would I spend money in the bank to buy furniture when the stores will give me 0% financing for 3-5 years? Even though the spread is miniscule, it wouldn’t make sense to use the money in the bank. I guess the alternative is to live with a ratty couch and carpets that someone might have puked/pooped on, but if my wife and I can easily pay for it; why would I want to?
[quote=bearishgurl]Boomers didn’t think of buying a home only if they had kids. Boomers thought of buying a home as an investment (to use to climb the “homebuying ladder” to a better home later) and to create net worth. Having kids had nothing to do with it. [/quote]
Well after we saw numerous boom and bust cycles I guess we don’t think of personal residences as logical investments; especially when I can get greater ROI’s on MFR’s, or many other things.
[quote=bearishgurl]Today’s FTB’s don’t want the “starter home” that was “good enough” for us. They want a bigger, more modern home exactly in their area of choice (within reason) or they will continue renting . . . that is, until they are priced out of rentals in their “choice” area. Then they’ll move into their 2nd and 3rd choice areas until their lives become unbearable with their daily commute. [/quote]
#1. Like I said, I just bought my first and probably last home. Of course I want it to be in a nice area for my children. Would I have continued renting if I had no children – Hell yes!! Personally I loved the flexibility with renting, and would rather use my excess cash flow for investments.
#2. Regarding the rest of the stuff, don’t most people (not just millennials) do the same thing? I see and work with a lot of Boomers driving from Temecula and Murrieta so they can have a 4,000sf home. This is in contrast to others my age who would shoot themselves in the head before doing that.
[quote=bearishgurl] They don’t WANT the stability of owning a more centrally-located home where they would have a short commute to a variety of job centers. Like you said, not if it interferes with saving their downpayment for a Tesla :=0[/quote]
Well my commute is 20-25 minutes each way to the office, which is more than bearable for me. I also own a large enough home to house a family of 5 comfortable and also have enough cash flow to pay for a Tesla among numerous other things. Again I have the cash to pay for it, but why pay cash when I can finance it at 1.60%?
October 17, 2016 @ 4:10 PM
Millenials are the “instant
Millenials are the “instant gratification” generation.
October 17, 2016 @ 4:31 PM
BG, i think millennial women
BG, i think millennial women are buying houses on their own in greater number. Men, not as much.
I recall reading that somewhere. correct me if I’m wrong
BTW, i only buy rental condos close to the city. I always remodel in polished urban Euro style (Ikea kitchens with waterfall counters). I have great millennial tenants with good jobs. It’s a great niche because it’s hard to find nice and new near the city.
I don’t mind sharing my “secret” because the remodel and the tenant search are the hardest part so I’m not afraid of competition.
October 17, 2016 @ 5:08 PM
FlyerInHi wrote:BG, i think
[quote=FlyerInHi]BG, i think millennial women are buying houses on their own in greater number. Men, not as much.
I recall reading that somewhere. correct me if I’m wrong
BTW, i only buy rental condos close to the city. I always remodel in polished urban Euro style (Ikea kitchens with waterfall counters). I have great millennial tenants with good jobs. It’s a great niche because it’s hard to find nice and new near the city.
I don’t mind sharing my “secret” because the remodel and the tenant search are the hardest part so I’m not afraid of competition.[/quote]
Flyer that is a very smart idea and thankfully there are many areas here to choose from. You have Downtown, MV, MM, and UTC. As long as it’s nice, modern and clean people will always pay a premium. All those areas have some sketch parts, but for the most part have some part of the demographic who are Millennial and educated.
October 17, 2016 @ 5:00 PM
bearishgurl wrote:Millenials
[quote=bearishgurl]Millenials are the “instant gratification” generation.[/quote]
“We are the take advantage of low interest rates” generation!
October 18, 2016 @ 7:54 AM
millennial wrote:bearishgurl
[quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]Millenials are the “instant gratification” generation.[/quote]
“We are the take advantage of low interest rates” generation![/quote]
Specifically how are they doing that?
October 18, 2016 @ 11:43 AM
La Jolla Renter
[quote=La Jolla Renter][quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]Millenials are the “instant gratification” generation.[/quote]
“We are the take advantage of low interest rates” generation![/quote]
Specifically how are they doing that?[/quote]
I was reading that there’s too much debt out in the economy. But debt equals savings chasing low returns. Maybe when the boomers start passing away and the younger generations spend the money, growth rates will improve.
October 18, 2016 @ 12:18 PM
La Jolla Renter
[quote=La Jolla Renter][quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]Millenials are the “instant gratification” generation.[/quote]
“We are the take advantage of low interest rates” generation![/quote]
Specifically how are they doing that?[/quote]Well, in yamashi/millenial’s defense, he’s right about all the “buy-now/pay-at-0%-per-month-for-x months” offers for consumer goods today. Boomers didn’t have that option when they needed things (were in their prime consuming years). That’s why most of them just took castoffs from friends/relatives and items from the classified ads and garage sales when they needed something. I even bought appliances for my rental unit used (and kept replacing them with more used appls when they broke). Auto loans for young people back then (without established credit on “TRW”) had a 15-24% interest rate. My $65K mortgage on that duplex was $774 month (P&I only) and that was a “special” interest rate backed by a state program to encourage investing in certain urban “targeted” areas. Of course, that didn’t include property taxes or insurance. My rental unit initially rented for $515 month and was renting for $650 month 8 years later (when we sold the property). The prevailing FHA rate at the time we purchased it was about 15.5%, IIRC (and that was lower that the conventional mortgage interest rate). Boomers really didn’t have the option of “shopping in areas well above their means” like millenials do today. The only reason millenials such as yamashi were able to buy the ONE home that they will raise their family in for the duration of their minority for their first home was due to mortgage interest rates of the past decade-plus being the lowest in the history of the mortgage industry. Add to that a proliferation of outlying areas to shop in due to massive overbuilding (with the attendant freeway construction and widening) in San Diego County in the past 20+ years and these two conditions created the most favorable homebuying climate AND largest choice in history for SD homebuyers.
The only drawback I’ve seen to the SD residential RE market of the last 8 years or so is the dearth of “fixers” to buy due to organized flipper teams and REITS buying most of them up for resale, and to a larger extent, to retain for buy-and-hold investments in recent years. It would be very hard for Mr and Ms BG (who had tools and a large pickup and trailer and were handy and hard workers) to buy a fixer today because they needed a mortgage to do so and the vast majority of fixers today sell for all cash. Because of this, today’s FTB (and STB/TTB) must rely solely on their W-2 incomes to increase their net worth. Meaning, they must depend on someone else to offer them the opportunities (AND retain them) instead of relying on themselves to create net worth.
However, the vast majority of millenials today wouldn’t even step onto the lot of a fixer, let alone consider buying it. The “Eww factor” is too much for them so the concept of accumulating “sweat equity” is not palatable to this group. Not only that, most of them were not taught to use power tools or landscaping equipment while growing up …. or how to pull and back in a flatbed trailer after learning to drive, or (as in the case with my kids), the offers were made to teach them but they refused to learn, citing they were “too busy.” We’ve got a whole generation out there who has been preoccupied exercising with their thumbs all of their lives and of whom a good portion don’t even know how to work laundry machines! They’re virtually helpless in the “survival skill” dept :=0
I hope all the millenials get GREAT JOBS in the coming years and SAVE THEIR EARNINGS because they will really have no other way to create true net worth for their retirements (except for the perilously fickle stock market). Nor will they be eligible for anywhere near the level of pensions that their predecessors are collecting (excepting career military personnel). Unlike the boomers, the vast majority of millenials will have no pension at all.
October 18, 2016 @ 1:46 PM
BG, only 5% of cars sold are
BG, only 5% of cars sold are stick shift anymore. Did your kids learn?
http://www.fox13news.com/consumer/212067668-story
October 18, 2016 @ 2:08 PM
FlyerInHi wrote:BG, only 5%
[quote=FlyerInHi]BG, only 5% of cars sold are stick shift anymore. Did your kids learn?
http://www.fox13news.com/consumer/212067668-story
[/quote]No, we had one vehicle that had a stick shift (a Toy Hi-Lux pickup) but they refused to learn on it.
OTOH, my FIRST vehicle which DIDN’T have a stick shift was a gorgeous maroon (w/color coded bumpers and a fabulous, plush interior) 1988 Toyota Camry LE (purchased used in ’92). It also had a nice, big trunk. I loved that vehicle but it took me awhile to get used to not having to constantly shift.
Wow, Toyota and Lexus doesn’t make their older (square) style of sedans anymore and that is a shame. They were very sleek and beautiful … that is, compared to their sedans today which appear to have a chopped-off trunk and look like a big blob :=0
October 18, 2016 @ 2:15 PM
Given baby boomers have been
Given baby boomers have been a major force since the mid-60s to today and that the National Debt during that period went from $0.5 Trillion to $19 Trillion, I don’t think the baby boomers have much of a leg to stand on when it comes to managing money and paying their way.
You can even give them the benefit of the doubt until Bill Clinton the first boomer took the Presidency and national debt still went up $14 Trillion.
October 18, 2016 @ 8:53 PM
no_such_reality wrote:
You
[quote=no_such_reality]
You can even give them the benefit of the doubt until Bill Clinton the first boomer took the Presidency and national debt still went up $14 Trillion.[/quote]
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_public_debt
National debt went down with 2 Democaratic presidents including Bill.
October 20, 2016 @ 11:46 AM
moneymaker
[quote=moneymaker][quote=no_such_reality]
You can even give them the benefit of the doubt until Bill Clinton the first boomer took the Presidency and national debt still went up $14 Trillion.[/quote]
http://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_public_debt
National debt went down with 2 Democaratic presidents including Bill.[/quote]
From Bill Clinton to today, the debt has increased $14 Trillion.
Here’s outstanding debt by year, please show me the year where the debt went down? https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm
October 20, 2016 @ 2:23 PM
I think he meant the annual
I think he meant the annual budget deficit. Bill Clinton and Obama were the best at reducing. That is living within our means.
October 20, 2016 @ 5:08 PM
The point was that from
The point was that from Clinton on, we have had boomer presidents. If you don’t like the numbers, thank a boomer. Thank a boomer if you do like them, too.
This thread devolved into an internet fight about generational superiority, not party superiority. Keep up, people. 😉
Or, threadjack the threadjack. That is always an option.
October 20, 2016 @ 2:35 PM
no_such_reality wrote:Here’s
[quote=no_such_reality]Here’s outstanding debt by year, please show me the year where the debt went down? https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm%5B/quote%5D
I think NSR is getting the US deficit confused with National Debt.
http://money.howstuffworks.com/difference-between-u-s-deficit-national-debt-1.htm
October 18, 2016 @ 2:58 PM
bearishgurl wrote:FlyerInHi
[quote=bearishgurl][quote=FlyerInHi]BG, only 5% of cars sold are stick shift anymore. Did your kids learn?
http://www.fox13news.com/consumer/212067668-story
[/quote]No, we had one vehicle that had a stick shift (a Toy Hi-Lux pickup) but they refused to learn on it.
OTOH, my FIRST vehicle which DIDN’T have a stick shift was a gorgeous maroon (w/color coded bumpers and a fabulous, plush interior) 1988 Toyota Camry LE (purchased used in ’92). It also had a nice, big trunk. I loved that vehicle but it took me awhile to get used to not having to constantly shift.
Wow, Toyota and Lexus doesn’t make their older (square) style of sedans anymore and that is a shame. They were very sleek and beautiful … that is, compared to their sedans today which appear to have a chopped-off trunk and look like a big blob :=0[/quote]
I can care less what you think is sleek, or if you like stick shift. I can drive stick but they are a thing of the past. BMW M Class are going to stop offering and Porsche is going that route too. Why? Because they are antiquated and old, just like people who like Toyota Camry’s. Pretty soon it’ll be self driving vehicles and I’ll be the one saying, I miss when we could drive on our own.
October 18, 2016 @ 2:11 PM
bearishgurl wrote:Well, in
[quote=bearishgurl]Well, in yamashi/millenial’s defense, he’s right about all the “buy-now/pay-at-0%-per-month-for-x months” offers for consumer goods today.[/quote]
Problem #342 with Millennials – they don’t understand many basic rules of economics/common sense… there is no free lunch.
Millennial, someone (fellow millennials) is paying interest on that stuff. Even if you or a very few of you are not.
And if all millennials are so savvy/lucky to pay their bill off on time, then guess where prices go.
October 18, 2016 @ 2:47 PM
La Jolla Renter
[quote=La Jolla Renter]
Problem #342 with Millennials – they don’t understand many basic rules of economics/common sense… there is no free lunch.
Millennial, someone (fellow millennials) is paying interest on that stuff. Even if you or a very few of you are not.
And if all millennials are so savvy/lucky to pay their bill off on time, then guess where prices go.[/quote]
What do you mean there is no free lunch? You are a complete moron who doesn’t understand anything about corporate finance! A lot of people pay very low interest rates including 0% financing on new furniture, around 3.5% on homes…etc. Also not just me, but a lot of people get this offer. Do you know how we can do this? It’s because companies are able to cover shortfalls in cash flow with excess liquidity and/ or very cheap loans. Right now the country is pretty much in recession; companies are holding onto tons of cash with nothing to do with it! Corporate rates are even lower with Fed Funds Rates going negative in some countries and many companies able to borrow at Libor + 1.50% or less!
October 18, 2016 @ 2:48 PM
0 perc on crap furniture,
0 perc on crap furniture, baked into the price.
October 18, 2016 @ 2:49 PM
i hate paying 4 furniture.
i hate paying 4 furniture. theres so much in existence already, really too much. i regret buying some tolix chairs. no regrets over free dining table and goidwill sofa!
October 18, 2016 @ 2:56 PM
scaredyclassic wrote:i hate
[quote=scaredyclassic]i hate paying 4 furniture. theres so much in existence already, really too much. i regret buying some tolix chairs. no regrets over free dining table and goodwill sofa![/quote]
Yes I hate paying for furniture also, but I do understand that it is necessary when you buy a house. Personally, I’m one who would rather get top of the line once with timeless design and good craftsmanship than some Ikea POS. I really enjoy Room & Board, but they are pretty pricey. One of my favorite pieces they have is the Avery Bed, but I was able to make one very similar for $200 bucks. Not the same, but saved me a ton of money. Unfortunately I couldn’t do the same with their Hudson Dressers.
October 18, 2016 @ 3:51 PM
Room and board is my style
Room and board is my style too. But don’t knock Ikea. They have some nice stuff. The Stockholm sofa is high quality. Dense foam. If you have an engineering mind you can see.
The IKEA kitchen cabinets are the best you can find. The old style discontinued Ikea cabinets are now sold at Home Depot and Lowes as the “premium” stuff with metal drawers. Made my Blum.
In a globalized world of commodity products most differences are marketing.
October 18, 2016 @ 4:06 PM
FlyerInHi wrote:Room and
[quote=FlyerInHi]Room and board is my style too. But don’t knock Ikea. [/quote]
Sorry for knocking Ikea…my wife would kill me too 😀 Maybe overgeneralizing since they are known to be synonymous to cheap renter furniture. You are right about the kitchen stuff, my buddy got some in his pad and it looks pretty good. From what I heard, it was a complete pain, but it looks like it was worth it in the end.
October 18, 2016 @ 3:24 PM
I agree with LJR with regard
I agree with LJR with regard to there being non-dollar costs to the pursuit of “cheap” goods, particularly human and environmental costs. But millennials didn’t exactly invent globalization/outsourcing/Walmart/clear cutting, factory farming, etc.
As far as personal financial choices and failing to appreciate the long range implications of cheap and/or and easy money, this report from AARP on the housing crisis is interesting.
http://www.aarp.org/money/credit-loans-debt/info-07-2012/nightmare-on-main-street-AARP-ppi-cons-prot.html
The *oldest* millennials were only 26 or 27 when the *downturn* portion of that thing we keep calling The Global Financial Crisis started. This isn’t ancient history and the architects of it weren’t millennials.
October 18, 2016 @ 3:38 PM
Balboa_Again wrote:I agree
[quote=Balboa_Again]I agree with LJR with regard to there being non-dollar costs to the pursuit of “cheap” goods, particularly human and environmental costs. But millennials didn’t exactly invent globalization/outsourcing/Walmart/clear cutting, factory farming, etc.
As far as personal financial choices and failing to appreciate the long range implications of cheap and/or and easy money, this report from AARP on the housing crisis is interesting.
http://www.aarp.org/money/credit-loans-debt/info-07-2012/nightmare-on-main-street-AARP-ppi-cons-prot.html
The *oldest* millennials were only 26 or 27 when the *downturn* portion of that thing we keep calling The Global Financial Crisis started. This isn’t ancient history and the architects of it weren’t millennials.[/quote]
I agree there may be non-dollar costs, but not in his statement saying Millennials don’t understand basic economics. Obviously the cheap money thing and housing bubble wasn’t our fault. I’m one of the *oldest* millennials you talk about and I didn’t even have close to enough capital to start thinking about buying a home.
October 18, 2016 @ 4:01 PM
We pretty much agree. We were
We pretty much agree. We were probably both also born in 1980.
I was using the AARP data as a recent example of a bunch of non-millennials making catastrophically bad decisions regarding housing and money at the individual level, perhaps because of lack of understanding of basic economics/risk.
I remember when this thread was just on the verge of becoming an interesting discussion of what people learned from their parents and what they choose to do now that contributes to their happiness and well being.
October 18, 2016 @ 4:20 PM
Balboa_Again wrote:We pretty
[quote=Balboa_Again]We pretty much agree. We were probably both also born in 1980.
I was using the AARP data as a recent example of a bunch of non-millennials making catastrophically bad decisions regarding housing and money at the individual level, perhaps because of lack of understanding of basic economics/risk.
I remember when this thread was just on the verge of becoming an interesting discussion of what people learned from their parents and what they choose to do now that contributes to their happiness and well being.[/quote]
Let’s get back to that shall we. Fighting BG and LJR is taking up too much of my time anyways.
My father and mother taught me that if I study and work hard I can achieve anything (immigrant mother, and 2nd generation father). They also taught me to not follow the status quo; to run away from opportunities that everyone wants and to spend extra time to analyze opportunities that everyone is running from. This has served me especially well during the last downturn.
October 18, 2016 @ 4:30 PM
Balboa_Again wrote:I remember
[quote=Balboa_Again]I remember when this thread was just on the verge of becoming an interesting discussion of what people learned from their parents and what they choose to do now that contributes to their happiness and well being.[/quote]My parents were members of the “Greatest Generation” who became (very successful, I might add) “dust bowl refugees” in their young adulthood.
Need I say more??
October 18, 2016 @ 4:40 PM
BG, the standards have
BG, the standards have changed. What we take for granted today were luxuries in the past. Like orthodontics. Millennials have nicer teeth.
October 18, 2016 @ 4:49 PM
FlyerInHi wrote:BG, the
[quote=FlyerInHi]BG, the standards have changed. What we take for granted today were luxuries in the past. Like orthodontics. Millennials have nicer teeth.[/quote]
BG fails to realize that areas and places change too. I didn’t live here in the 80’s but I heard North Park, South Park and Gas Lamp wasn’t too nice. I grew up in Detroit and it has changed too. Many boomers ran away to the suburbs during the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. Millennials like my sister and her friends are now tearing down the boarded up homes and developing beautiful sky rises. BG’s ignorance astounds, and saddens me.
October 18, 2016 @ 4:56 PM
millennial wrote:La Jolla
[quote=millennial][quote=La Jolla Renter]
Problem #342 with Millennials – they don’t understand many basic rules of economics/common sense… there is no free lunch.
Millennial, someone (fellow millennials) is paying interest on that stuff. Even if you or a very few of you are not.
And if all millennials are so savvy/lucky to pay their bill off on time, then guess where prices go.[/quote]
What do you mean there is no free lunch? You are a complete moron who doesn’t understand anything about corporate finance! A lot of people pay very low interest rates including 0% financing on new furniture, around 3.5% on homes…etc. Also not just me, but a lot of people get this offer. Do you know how we can do this? It’s because companies are able to cover shortfalls in cash flow with excess liquidity and/ or very cheap loans. Right now the country is pretty much in recession; companies are holding onto tons of cash with nothing to do with it! Corporate rates are even lower with Fed Funds Rates going negative in some countries and many companies able to borrow at Libor + 1.50% or less![/quote]
Holly shit, I think your that little shit Millennial in your Prius that cuts in at the very last second after passing the mile of cars patiently waiting to exit the 5 at Garnet every night.
Fyi, I’m a lot closer to your age than you think, just thankfully not a Millennial. And perhaps I do know a little more about corporate finance than you may think, as I own one that I started before I graduated college. Another thing I know that you don’t, the priceless feeling of buying a car with cash (twice). And guess what… you can get the car for a much lower price than you can at 0%. Especially if you know how to tactfully deal with the owner/GM.
There is no free lunch grasshopper, The banks and wall-street have your piss ant little number my friend.
One more thing, when your driving your 0% overpriced Tesla checking your 120K in apple stock every 1/2 mile, don’t drive like such a fvcking millennial… cuz karma is a bitch and I would want you to hit my kids.
Now, I got to go get some of that 6ft glassy surf before sunset. Peace out.
October 18, 2016 @ 6:15 PM
La Jolla Renter wrote:
Fyi,
[quote=La Jolla Renter]
Fyi, I’m a lot closer to your age than you think, just thankfully not a Millennial. And perhaps I do know a little more about corporate finance than you may think, as I own one that I started before I graduated college. Another thing I know that you don’t, the priceless feeling of buying a car with cash (twice). And guess what… you can get the car for a much lower price than you can at 0%. Especially if you know how to tactfully deal with the owner/GM.[/quote]
Well I have purchased a car with cash twice, but again before very low financing rates made it disadvantageous. Also maybe you can get a better deal without the financing aspect, but in my cases it didn’t work that way. I asked about cash price vs. financing price. The last three cars I financed, it was the same price. The reality is that the dealership could care less, and as long as you have strong credit the financing arm of the car manufacturer (GMAC/Toyota Financial/US Bank (Tesla) could care less or does not mind since they will be making enough to cover their interest rate spreads. For me it’s a win based on the low APR; diminishing time value of money; and the flexibility for me to utilize my cash on hand for investments that bring greater ROI.
[quote=La Jolla Renter]
There is no free lunch grasshopper, The banks and wall-street have your piss ant little number my friend.[/quote]
Not sure what you mean by this, or what it has to do with taking out low interest rate loans (mortgage/car/consumer goods). I do agree that it’s very difficult to beat wall street. I also understand that stocks are a zero-sum game, with most likely me on the negative side.
[quote=La Jolla Renter]
One more thing, when your driving your 0% overpriced Tesla checking your 120K in apple stock every 1/2 mile, don’t drive like such a fvcking millennial… cuz karma is a bitch and I would want you to hit my kids.
Now, I got to go get some of that 6ft glassy surf before sunset. Peace out.[/quote]
Hey man you’re the one creating all the awesome Karma. Opening this thread judging, and calling us Millennials equal to, or dumber than your generation. All I ask for are facts and some rational thinking.
October 18, 2016 @ 2:13 PM
bearishgurl wrote: The only
[quote=bearishgurl] The only reason millenials such as yamashi were able to buy the ONE home that they will raise their family in for the duration of their minority for their first home was due to mortgage interest rates of the past decade-plus being the lowest in the history of the mortgage industry.[/quote]
I’ll hop on the crowded “personal anecdotes” train and say that for me and at least two concentric circles worth of my very responsible (though not “professional”) friends, the main reason we were able to purchase in San Diego was…
somebody died.
The major factors in not having a down payment prior to inheritance in our 30s (geezer millennials) include rapid rises in housing costs, huge increases in college tuition that don’t track with wages/COL even though degrees are now de rigueur, substantial increases in student loan interest rates on top of that (govt loan rates doubled in the 7 years that separate my sister and me), and melt-down related crap.
October 18, 2016 @ 3:07 PM
Balboa_Again wrote:
The major
[quote=Balboa_Again]
The major factors in not having a down payment prior to inheritance in our 30s (geezer millennials) include rapid rises in housing costs, huge increases in college tuition that don’t track with wages/COL even though degrees are now de rigueur, substantial increases in student loan interest rates on top of that (govt loan rates doubled in the 7 years that separate my sister and me), and melt-down related crap.[/quote]
Yes exactly my point. BG goes on and on about how Millennials don’t save…well those are the reasons. 20% down on a $500k home (something I would consider a normal starter home) is almost $100K whereas on a $81K townhome is $16K. Low interest rates didn’t exactly help keep housing prices down since most people are looking at the monthly nut when buying.
October 18, 2016 @ 3:39 PM
millennial wrote:Balboa_Again
[quote=millennial][quote=Balboa_Again]
The major factors in not having a down payment prior to inheritance in our 30s (geezer millennials) include rapid rises in housing costs, huge increases in college tuition that don’t track with wages/COL even though degrees are now de rigueur, substantial increases in student loan interest rates on top of that (govt loan rates doubled in the 7 years that separate my sister and me), and melt-down related crap.[/quote]
Yes exactly my point. BG goes on and on about how Millennials don’t save…well those are the reasons. 20% down on a $500k home (something I would consider a normal starter home) is almost $100K whereas on a $81K townhome is $16K. Low interest rates didn’t exactly help keep housing prices down since most people are looking at the monthly nut when buying.[/quote]The particular loan program we used to buy that duplex many years ago no longer exists. IIRC, we only put <$7K down and that included our portion of the closing costs. We were not required to put 20% down NOR were we required to obtain PMI as our mortgage was NOT a conventional loan.
October 18, 2016 @ 3:44 PM
bearishgurl wrote:The
[quote=bearishgurl]The particular loan program we used to buy that duplex many years ago no longer exists. IIRC, we only put <$7K down and that included our portion of the closing costs. We were not required to put 20% down NOR were we required to obtain PMI as our mortgage was NOT a conventional loan.[/quote] Lucky you. Meanwhile we have to deal with Boomers like you who criticize us for not saving $100K to put down on our first home, when you only had to put down $7K. This is after we have to pay down student debt due to record breaking increases in college education.
October 18, 2016 @ 4:08 PM
millennial wrote:bearishgurl
[quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]The particular loan program we used to buy that duplex many years ago no longer exists. IIRC, we only put <$7K down and that included our portion of the closing costs. We were not required to put 20% down NOR were we required to obtain PMI as our mortgage was NOT a conventional loan.[/quote] Lucky you. Meanwhile we have to deal with Boomers like you who criticize us for not saving $100K to put down on our first home, when you only had to put down $7K. This is after we have to pay down student debt due to record breaking increases in college education.[/quote]There were other conditions. We had to hold the property for 7 years (we held it about 8 1/2 yrs, I think) in order to not pay a small "equity share" portion (back to the state agency who guaranteed the loan) upon COE when we sold. The truth is, millenials would not buy into that area today. They wouldn’t even get off the freeway on that exit unless they grew up in the area. Their “living large” expectations are through the roof! As I stated earlier in this thread, they want the calibur of home they grew up in that their now 50++ year-old parents had buy/sell several times and sweat blood to get into. And they want that home TODAY. If they can’t get it, they will RENT as close to that home as they can possibly get approved for and will settle for nothing less. That’s the biggest difference between millenials and their boomer parents. It’s a difference of values and no amount of a parent demonstrating their own values to their kid can change this because millenials are too overly-influenced by “popular culture.” Ex: “reality TV” show depicting multiple roommates who live together in a drama-filled, 6 bdrm, $2.5M+ monstrosity in the likes of Encino, CA. Throughout the show’s season, none of them ever appear to actually get up in the morning to go to a job :=0 The message it sends the age 12 and up crowd is “easy come, easy go. This is what you can expect after coming up age and this is the way life is on your own.” There are dozens of shows like this on cable/satellite TV.
It’s not too much to ask to save $100K in 5-10 years if one doesn’t have any student loans and made close to $100K straight out of college and has been working FT since then (with raises and promotions) as my kid(s) have.
October 18, 2016 @ 4:33 PM
bearishgurl wrote:The truth
[quote=bearishgurl]The truth is, millenials would not buy into that area today. They wouldn’t even get off the freeway on that exit unless they grew up in the area. Their “living large” expectations are through the roof! As I stated earlier in this thread, they want the calibur of home they grew up in that their now 50++ year-old parents had buy/sell several times and sweat blood to get into. And they want that home TODAY. If they can’t get it, they will RENT as close to that home as they can possibly get approved for and will settle for nothing less. That’s the biggest difference between millenials and their boomer parents. It’s a difference of values and no amount of a parent demonstrating their own values to their kid can change this because millenials are too overly-influenced by “popular culture.” Ex: “reality TV” show depicting multiple roommates who live together in a drama-filled, 6 bdrm, $2.5M+ monstrosity in the likes of Encino, CA. Throughout the show’s season, none of them ever appear to actually get up in the morning to go to a job :=0 The message it sends the age 12 and up crowd is “easy come, easy go. This is what you can expect after coming up age and this is the way life is on your own.” There are dozens of shows like this on cable/satellite TV.[/quote]
I don’t know where you get this rubbish from. If you already have these unshakeable preconceived notions of Millennials then really you are out of touch with reality. I give up with you BG, I have too many other things to do.
[quote=bearishgurl] if one doesn’t have any student loans and made close to $100K straight out of college and has been working FT since then (with raises and promotions) as my kid(s) have.[/quote]
BG, this is not reality…I don’t think most people coming out of college have $0 in student loans, especially with the astronomical increase in tuition rates. Also there may be some like your kids making $100K out of college, but it was very unlikely for Millenials. The only friends I know that made that much were investment bankers and that’s after bonuses in Manhattan. When I got out most were getting paid between $30K-$50K. Also many didn’t keep the same job since we went through some long and deep recessions since.
October 18, 2016 @ 5:06 PM
millennial wrote:BG, this is
[quote=millennial]BG, this is not reality…I don’t think most people coming out of college have $0 in student loans, especially with the astronomical increase in tuition rates. Also there may be some like your kids making $100K out of college, but it was very unlikely for Millenials. The only friends I know that made that much were investment bankers and that’s after bonuses in Manhattan. When I got out most were getting paid between $30K-$50K. Also many didn’t keep the same job since we went through some long and deep recessions since.[/quote]I don’t think there is that high of a percentage of current and former students who graduated from CA PUBLIC universities who took out student loans. Even with all the rate hikes since about 2004, tuition is still fairly reasonable at the UC and CSU. I think the bulk of student loans were taken out by students of “for profit” institutions and online diploma mills. Also, private universities lured in most of their freshman with generous help and then bailed on them on their sophomore year (and the student wanted to stay there so borrowed to do it). Also, most students of private occupational programs borrowed to attend their programs. Some of these students who are deeply indebted with SL’s didn’t even graduate (thru no fault of their own) because their school filed for BK and closed in the middle of their program.
Yes, my kid(s) would have made $30-$50K straight out of college had they gotten their first jobs in SD County. However, they did not. They left SD for university and never moved back. They only come back “home” for the holidays. It is well-known that companies in SD County pay much lower wages and offer less promotional opportunity/choice of companies to choose from than other urban job centers in CA for most professions … especially straight out of college.
Did you and/or your college-graduate friends obtain your first jobs after graduation in SD County, yamashi?
October 18, 2016 @ 5:35 PM
(duplicate)
(duplicate)
October 18, 2016 @ 5:45 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
Did you
[quote=bearishgurl]
Did you and/or your college-graduate friends obtain your first jobs after graduation in SD County yamashi?[/quote]
No I did not, but you’re right that SD does not pay in comparison to other high priced areas like NYC, Los Angeles, and SF. I think I’ve heard of it as “sunshine tax”. This isn’t just in SD, but it was also in other places I’ve lived like Santa Barbara, and Maui. Regarding the problems with these for-profit universities going BK was a little past my time, but the stress for every American to go to college was not. Personally I think that this is where our infrastructure goes wrong. I forget the name of the author, but basically America has fallen behind by stressing the importance of all 18 year olds to go to college even though some don’t belong (maturity level, don’t know what to do etc). Instead he stressed that we should be more like Germany and create more trade schools for people instead of college. Even better yet, while in high school. My thought is if you can’t get into the top 50 colleges in America, maybe you’re better off doing something else. Most definitely not creating $100K in order to get a bachelor’s from University of Phoenix.
October 18, 2016 @ 11:40 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
if one
$100k salaries are given to people right out of college only in computer programming and big finance.
and most of these jobs are just in the New York and San Francisco area where rent is astronomical.
October 18, 2016 @ 3:21 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
My $65K
[quote=bearishgurl]
My $65K mortgage on that duplex was $774 month (P&I only) and that was a “special” interest rate backed by a state program to encourage investing in certain urban “targeted” areas. Of course, that didn’t include property taxes or insurance. [/quote]
So BG, so assuming a 30 year fixed mortgage that puts you somewhere around an interest rate of 14%. Using my current jumbo interest rate of 3.625%, the equivalent mortgage for your duplex would be $170K. Assuming a 20% down the current value of that duplex you purchased will be $212K. Now I’m not exactly sure what that duplex is worth now, but I’m sure there are not that many places within SD county you can buy for $212K.
[quote=bearishgurl]
Boomers really didn’t have the option of “shopping in areas well above their means” like millenials do today. The only reason millenials such as yamashi were able to buy the ONE home that they will raise their family in for the duration of their minority for their first home was due to mortgage interest rates of the past decade-plus being the lowest in the history of the mortgage industry.[/quote]
This is pretty elementary, but it doesn’t seem you understand that for most people a purchase for a personal residence is all about the monthly P&I payments and if they have the ability to cash flow. Because of this there is an inverse correlation between price of home and the interest rate. For instance say I purchase my home for $1.6Mn and put 20% down and have a mortgage of $1.28Mn. This would equate to a monthly P&I payment of $5,837. Assuming we went back to 1982 when you purchased your townhome and use a 14% interest rate the amount of mortgage I can support is $493K. Assuming the additional 20% I used to put down of $320K. I would be able to purchase a home for $813K back in 1982. So see basically it makes your whole argument pretty dumb…because for $813K I’m sure I could buy a lot more home in 1982 than I can now. Pretty much what is restricting Millennials right now is what I said before, which is the increase in home values in comparison to wages. We can easily calculate this by indexing the change in avg income/change in avg housing prices. I don’t have the time to search the data books now, but I assume that the ratio will definitely be less than 1.00x.
[quote=bearishgurl]
Because of this, today’s FTB (and STB/TTB) must rely solely on their W-2 incomes to increase their net worth. Meaning, they must depend on someone else to offer them the opportunities (AND retain them) instead of relying on themselves to create net worth.[/quote]
This is total B/S. There are still many ways out there to make money. Maybe it’s not the right time to flip houses, but there are still ways instead of working for someone.
[quote=bearishgurl]
We’ve got a whole generation out there who has been preoccupied exercising with their thumbs all of their lives and of whom a good portion don’t even know how to work laundry machines! They’re virtually helpless in the “survival skill” dept :=0[/quote]
I’m sure a lot of us know how to use laundry machines a lot better than you. It’s really a pretty simple device.
[quote=bearishgurl]
Unlike the boomers, the vast majority of millenials will have no pension at all.[/quote]
Probably the only correct thing you’ve said.
October 18, 2016 @ 3:32 PM
millennial wrote:bearishgurl
[quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]
Boomers really didn’t have the option of “shopping in areas well above their means” like millenials do today. The only reason millenials such as yamashi were able to buy the ONE home that they will raise their family in for the duration of their minority for their first home was due to mortgage interest rates of the past decade-plus being the lowest in the history of the mortgage industry.[/quote]
This is pretty elementary, but it doesn’t seem you understand that for most people, a purchase for a personal residence is all about the monthly P&I payments and if they have the ability to cash flow. Because of this there is an inverse correlation between price of home and the interest rate. For instance say I purchase my home for $1.6Mn and put 20% down and have a mortgage of $1.28Mn. This would equate to a monthly P&I payment of $5,837. Assuming we went back to 1982 when you purchased your townhome and use a 14% interest rate the amount of mortgage I can support is $493K. Assuming the additional 20% I used to put down of $320K. I would be able to purchase a home for $813K back in 1982. So see basically it makes your whole argument pretty dumb…because for $813K I’m sure I could buy a lot more home in 1983 than I can now. Pretty much what is restricting me right now is what I said before, which is the increase in home values in comparison to wages. We can easily calculate this by indexing the change in avg income/change in avg housing prices. I don’t have the time to search the data books now, but I assume that the ratio will definitely be less than 1.00x.[/quote]Well, your time frame is a little off re: my ownership period and you keep using the word “townhome” in reference to my first home. Do you know the difference between “townhomes” and duplexes? And do you realize that in CA, townhomes are almost always part of a homeowner’s association? In other words, they are a (two-story) condo. A duplex is a standalone home with two units and most of them are one-story.
That’s a bi-i-i-ig stretch that a prospective homebuyer in 1982 is going to have a $320K downpayment. Obviously, employees (even the typical “professional”) didn’t make enough back then to put $320K down on their first home! You could buy a home in LJ back then for less than that!
Did you actually put $320K down on your first (and only) home in SD, yamashi? If so, how much did you pay for it? And did you purchase it before . . . or after paying off your student loan(s)?
And wages and home prices have never moved in tandem in CA coastal counties and never will. CA coastal home values (esp within 5 miles of the coast) have absolutely nothing to do with what local “worker bees” are making.
[quote=millenial][quote=bearishgurl]
Because of this, today’s FTB (and STB/TTB) must rely solely on their W-2 incomes to increase their net worth. Meaning, they must depend on someone else to offer them the opportunities (AND retain them) instead of relying on themselves to create net worth.[/quote]
This is total B/S. There are many ways out there to make money. For instance, be an Uber driver.[/quote]Um, yamashi, do you actually think being a (part-time?) “uber driver” is going to fuel your net worth (or retirement fund) as much as buying RE, using “sweat equity” to improve it and reselling it would (assuming it is reasonably close to the CA coast)? I would think driving for uber would be akin to waiting tables or tending bar one night a week. It gives the part-time worker a little extra money to spend on a hobby or kids’ activities. It’s not even in the same league as investing in RE.
October 18, 2016 @ 4:01 PM
bearishgurl wrote:
Well, your
[quote=bearishgurl]
Well, your time frame is a little off re: my ownership period and you keep using the word “townhome” in reference to my first home. Do you know the difference between “townhomes” and duplexes? And do you realize that in CA, townhomes are almost always part of a homeowner’s association? In other words, they are a (two-story) condo. A duplex is a standalone home with two units and most of them are one-story.[/quote]
I just guessed your timeframe based on the interest rate and honestly I could care less if your first home was a duplex or a townhome. Really its moot because I was trying to drive home a point that people now are very much restricted and regardless of interest rates home affordability now is way less than what you could get in 1982 even with the high interest rates back then.
[quote=bearishgurl] That’s a bi-i-i-ig stretch that a prospective homebuyer in 1982 is going to have a $320K downpayment. Obviously, employees (even the typical “professional”) didn’t make enough back then to put $320K down on their first home! You could buy a home in LJ back then for less than that![/quote]
yes exactly so maybe you should stop criticizing Millennials about not having the 20% down.
[quote=bearishgurl] Did you actually put $320K down on your first (and only) home in SD.[/quote]
Yes I put 20% down as required to get a 30/30 jumbo loan. In hindsight I should have done a 10 year ARM and refinanced, but too much of a gamble I guess. Like I said, I buy my first home until my mid 30’s. The reasons were #1 wanted to stay flexible, #2 would rather used the money for investments, #3 not necessary since I didn’t have many kids.
[quote=bearishgurl]
And wages and home prices have never moved in tandem in CA coastal counties and never will. CA coastal home values (esp within 5 miles of the coast) have absolutely nothing to do with what local “worker bees” are making.[/quote]
Yes, but I’m sure that the disparity has grown significantly.
October 18, 2016 @ 4:27 PM
millennial wrote:bearishgurl
[quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]
And wages and home prices have never moved in tandem in CA coastal counties and never will. CA coastal home values (esp within 5 miles of the coast) have absolutely nothing to do with what local “worker bees” are making.[/quote]
Yes, but I’m sure that the disparity has grown significantly.[/quote]Even if true, why should this matter? Should “worker bees” be entitled to buy a single family home within ~5 miles of the CA (urban) coast? For example, they weren’t entitled to buy their first home in OB (SD) back in the 1970’s and they aren’t entitled to now. Nothing has changed.
October 18, 2016 @ 3:48 PM
yamashi/millenial, do you
yamashi/millenial, do you realize that there ARE still SFR’s available from the low $300K’s to $400K in SD East County and Inland North County? Also in 7 zip codes in east/southeast San Diego as well as Otay Mesa/Nestor/SY (urban) as well as southwest Chula Vista. Yes, they are far and few between and many are “pocket listings” (not listed on the MLS). But they are there.
October 18, 2016 @ 4:11 PM
bearishgurl
[quote=bearishgurl]yamashi/millenial, do you realize that there ARE still SFR’s available from the low $300K’s to $400K in SD East County and Inland North County? Also in 7 zip codes in east/southeast San Diego as well as Otay Mesa/Nestor/SY (urban) as well as southwest Chula Vista. Yes, they are far and few between and many are “pocket listings” (not listed on the MLS). But they are there.[/quote]
Soo….your point being? Not in the market and I don’t see how that adds to your point. So basically someone who wants to buy a home in those areas would need $80K to put down and be able to come up with about $1,500/month pretax. I’m not a mortgage lender, but if this is where George the Plumber lives he probably should be making 6 figures and saving like crazy if he wants a home before he turns 30.
October 18, 2016 @ 4:14 PM
millennial wrote:bearishgurl
[quote=millennial][quote=bearishgurl]yamashi/millenial, do you realize that there ARE still SFR’s available from the low $300K’s to $400K in SD East County and Inland North County? Also in 7 zip codes in east/southeast San Diego as well as Otay Mesa/Nestor/SY (urban) as well as southwest Chula Vista. Yes, they are far and few between and many are “pocket listings” (not listed on the MLS). But they are there.[/quote]
Soo….your point being?[/quote]My point was that a FTB doesn’t need $100K down to purchase a home in SD … even today. They can use FHA (or VA if they are eligible) and if they have excellent credit, they can qualify for a (Fannie/Freddie backed) 90% conventional loan (w/ [temporary] PMI). Yes, most of these homes need a little work (gasp!).
October 18, 2016 @ 3:57 PM
I like that millennials are
I like that millennials are knowledgeable about the food they eat. Boomers are not very adventurous.
October 19, 2016 @ 3:05 PM
This post reminds me of that
This post reminds me of that book “The Millionaire next door” where they talk about such a high percentage of millionaires being first generation immigrants, but then their kids tend to lose it all because they do not have the drive their parents had to succeed.
October 20, 2016 @ 8:59 AM
sdsurfer wrote:This post
[quote=sdsurfer]This post reminds me of that book “The Millionaire next door” where they talk about such a high percentage of millionaires being first generation immigrants, but then their kids tend to lose it all because they do not have the drive their parents had to succeed.[/quote]
Or like Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother. There is definitely a drop off between generations. It also happens when a family is rich for a long period of time.