Democrats Falling Off A Cliff...

User Forum Topic
Submitted by partypup on January 18, 2010 - 6:03pm

Don't know if any of you are following the special election in MA tomorrow, but suffice it to say that we could be looking at one of - if not the - biggest upsets AND landslides in modern political history. Martha Coakley (D) was supposed to smoke her opponent Scott Brown (R). She was up by as much as 17 points just a month ago in this solidly-blue state. This seat is important because it hasn't gone GOP since 1952, and it represents what-would-have-been Teddy Kennedy's vote for Obamacare, providing the 60th vote necessary to prevent a GOP filibuster.

But then something started happening in the last couple of weeks, and the momentum against Obamacare and pessimism about the economy has suddenly turned this small election into a referendum about Obama and his agenda - and a preview of coming attractions for Democratic members of Congress from light blue and pink states. If Brown wins by double-digits, then Obamacare will be on life support, requiring the miracle of a lightning-fast compromise on the bill before Brown gets sworn in 2 weeks. But any Democrats voting for Obamacare would have to be prepared to commit political suicide in November, because by all accounts on the ground this appears to be the beginning of a groundswell of political revolution - one that will initially take out Obama and the Democrats, but will then be unleashed against the GOP.

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/01/16/vi...

Submitted by TexasLine on January 18, 2010 - 9:46pm.

Except for a bit of overkill in the last sentence...agreed

Submitted by Aecetia on January 19, 2010 - 1:37am.

If she loses it will be because of her arrogance and that should be a message to all the others who will be campaigning this year. Politicians who think they do not have to connect with those who elect them will lose. The times are indeed changing.

Submitted by Zeitgeist on January 19, 2010 - 12:24pm.

With polls showing Democrat Martha Coakley trailing Republican Scott Brown in Tuesday's special Massachusetts election, Democrats struggled with the harsh reality that President Barack Obama's sweeping health care overhaul might no longer have the Senate votes to pass.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/34935317

"Regardless of the outcome ... this should be a gigantic wake-up call to the Democratic Party - that we're not connecting with the needs, the aspirations and the desires of real people right now," said San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...

Submitted by partypup on January 19, 2010 - 4:09pm.

Zeit, it just keeps getting worse:

This from Gloria Borger, a Democrat:

"Obama's agenda is on the line in vote"

"And so, one year later, Democrats are scurrying to figure out ways to salvage the Kennedy seat and health reform, in the event Coakley loses. They could, some say, push through reform before the Republican is seated. Or have the House pass an untouched version of the Senate bill, so no additional vote is necessary in the Senate. Or they could just lose -- which, after a year of hand-to-hand combat on reform, seems almost unimaginable.

The choices are bad: Give up on reform and look like a disorganized, weak majority. Or push through reform and look like a corrupt, desperate and arrogant majority.

No good choices. Which is why the president campaigned for Martha Coakley on Sunday -- and desperately needs her to win."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/19/bo...

It's also fascinating how much finger-pointing is going on now. The Democratic *leadership* wants to frame this race as one in which Coakley just ran a poor campaign. But as has become their habit of late, I think the Dems are acting in denial. To paraphrase James Carville, "It's the agenda, stupid." Folks wanted *change* (personally, I've been ready for *change* ever since Bush was elected!), but that didn't mean that they wanted a big government take over of their lives and Obama in their living room rearranging their furniture. What happened in VA and NJ last Fall and what is happening in MA today is a clear signal not that MA leadership is failing, but Democratic national leadership is failing:

"Coakley adviser memo: D.C. Dems 'failed' Coakley"

"The Coakley campaign is bridling at finger-pointing from the White House and Washington Democrats, and an outside adviser to the campaign has provided to POLITICO a memo aimed at rebutting the charge that Coakley failed and making the case that national Democrats failed her. The adviser, who made the case to my colleague Jonathan Martin on the condition of anonymity in response, he said, to "the current leaking coming out of the White House and the DNC that is chalking all of this up to a “bad candidate”.

The adviser, who cited internal polling numbers to make the case, e-mails that, "There’s more to the story than that. If Martha is guilty of taking the race for granted, so is the White House and the DNC."

The adviser pointed to internal polling to argue that Coakley held a wide -- 20 point -- lead on Dec. 19, and that the damage she took between that survey and a Jan. 5 Rasmussen poll putting the race at 9 points came from the national scene: The Senate vote on health care, with the controversy over Ben Nelson's deal for Nebraska, and the Christmas Day bombing."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0...

The question now is: Is anyone on the Obama team paying attention and learning - or will their own arrogrance and hurbis hurl them over a cliff like Wiley Coyote?

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on January 19, 2010 - 4:53pm.

Partypup: Speaking of the Ragin' Cajun (Carville), you know he wrote a recent book about the Dems "ruling" for 40 more years, right?

http://www.amazon.com/40-More-Years-Demo...

Ah, I love the smell of Schadenfreude in the morning! Speaking of German, old Adolf had plans for a 1,000 year Reich, too, didn't he? That didn't seem to work out so well, either. Arrogance and hubris again.

Of course, the GOP are fools if they think this backlash augurs well for them. As apathetic, disorganized and clueless as the American electorate is, I think we're getting pissed off enough to finally friggin' do something about it. Once people realize that they still do retain the power to do something via the vote, it'll get interesting.

Submitted by CardiffBaseball on January 19, 2010 - 7:02pm.

Allan from Fallbrook wrote:

Of course, the GOP are fools if they think this backlash augurs well for them. As apathetic, disorganized and clueless as the American electorate is, I think we're getting pissed off enough to finally friggin' do something about it. Once people realize that they still do retain the power to do something via the vote, it'll get interesting.

+1. No sense the GOP getting as "arrogant" as the Bush White house was about having a Mandate.

I think Babs Boxer's sphincter's is just a little tighter tonight. No matter what statement they release, there is some stuttering and stammering going on at campaign HQ.

Submitted by SD Transplant on January 19, 2010 - 8:03pm.

CardiffBaseball wrote:
Allan from Fallbrook wrote:

Of course, the GOP are fools if they think this backlash augurs well for them. As apathetic, disorganized and clueless as the American electorate is, I think we're getting pissed off enough to finally friggin' do something about it. Once people realize that they still do retain the power to do something via the vote, it'll get interesting.

+1. No sense the GOP getting as "arrogant" as the Bush White house was about having a Mandate.

I think Babs Boxer's sphincter's is just a little tighter tonight. No matter what statement they release, there is some stuttering and stammering going on at campaign HQ.

+2. A little more balance is well needed especially with this healthcare bill. I am not willing to pay the healthcare for the union members......thank you much

Submitted by air_ogi on January 19, 2010 - 9:04pm.

I am curious what you would propose in terms of balance?

Submitted by surveyor on January 19, 2010 - 9:23pm.

Brown / Palin 2012

'nuff said

Submitted by peterb on January 19, 2010 - 9:48pm.

More change. hahahaha

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on January 19, 2010 - 10:25pm.

CardiffBaseball wrote:
I think Babs Boxer's sphincter's is just a little tighter tonight. No matter what statement they release, there is some stuttering and stammering going on at campaign HQ.

Cardiff: I think after tonight's Massachusetts debacle, there are tight assholes from California to DC.

While this certainly isn't a ringing endorsement for the GOP, it is a referendum on the Dems and incumbents throughout the US.

I honestly never thought I'd see the day when Teddy Kennedy's seat went to a Republican. That seat has been Dem since 1952. Coakley, the Dem candidate, had enjoyed a 20 point lead as late as December. Obama came in solely to help her sagging fortunes. SEIU and the Dem machine threw huge dollars into the fray. This is frickin' amazing. If you're the Dems, how do you spin this?

What was Brian saying? The US needs more Dem "ideas" and "ideals"? Yeah. Apparently, the voters in Massachusetts, that most liberal of states, didn't appear to agree.

Submitted by Allan from Fallbrook on January 19, 2010 - 10:26pm.

Dupe

Submitted by Arraya on January 19, 2010 - 10:41pm.

Ok, after talking to a few "lefty" friends in the Boston area. Here's the inside scoop.

I don't think this election is about health care at all. In Mass., most reasonable folks across the political spectrum have become skeptical about Obamacare as a spinelessly-crafted, counterproductive, corporate boondoggle. It's just MSM spin that the race is a referendum on Healthcare.

And Massachusetts is not the hotbed of liberalism it is portrayed as in the media (often by right-wing pols and commentators). Most voters support the death penalty and oppose gay marriage, for example. There's mixed feelings about the war. While it's true the Democratic party controls the state legislature and Congressional delegations, there has always been a schism between the proverbial "Cambridge" liberal democrats and the blue collar "Southie-Dorchester" socially-conservative dems, often Irish Catholic. They have also had several Republican governors.

As in most states, elections in Mass. are decided by the independents, but even some registered Dems, and many women, have apparently abandoned Coakley. This election is really about two things: (1) a protest vote against Obama and his false promise of "change"; and (2) a response to good vs. bad politicking.

Submitted by patientrenter on January 19, 2010 - 10:44pm.

I don't think this was so much about health care or even unemployment as it was about taxpayer money being used to enrich bankers. I think that was the hottest button.

People in MA already have a health care plan like the Dem proposal, so the impact of that was nearly neutral to them. But the image of Wall Street paying itself more and more on the backs of taxpayer supports while the rest of us fear for our jobs and incomes was infuriating to independent voters in MA.

Submitted by Zeitgeist on January 19, 2010 - 11:30pm.

Change you can believe in! Amen!

Submitted by bsrsharma on January 19, 2010 - 11:55pm.

I think Arraya and Patientrenter have it right. It is the general dissatisfaction with the direction of the nation (rather than a strong repudiation of Obama) that has caused the upset. But if this extends to November, Obama may join the Jimmy Carter & George H.W. Bush club. I think we may start seeing many one term Presidencies now onwards. When the problems are intractable, the electorate can at least take revenge by causing churn.

Submitted by Veritas on January 20, 2010 - 12:02am.

It is a repudiation of big government and all its failed policies. Read 'em and weep, you Libs. It's all over but the crying! And yes, it is about Obama. They will blame her, but it is more about them. Brown ran against Obama, not Coakley.

Submitted by bsrsharma on January 20, 2010 - 12:16am.

Veritas,

Will you point out one thing that Obama has done that you can blame? I think his achievement in the last 12 months is exactly a Big Zero. He is plainly incompetent for the job, considering the difficulty and the severity of the problems the nation faces. He probably never imagined we will fall this far down into a hole when he dreamed up his grand vision. He may even be suffering from "buyer's remorse" himself (the nation definitely has severe "buyer's remorse")

Submitted by Veritas on January 20, 2010 - 12:37am.

I blame him for the big con about change and for telling people he would provide transparancy. He is a fraud and nothing more than the Chicago political machine. Axelrod was hired by Morris. Obama has never had a real job and he does not understand how to be a leader; he is a politician. He looks great! I love listening to him, but there is nothing there, no substance. As Fromm would say, he is a marketing personality and I am not buying it. Time for a real change!

From the three water signs will be born a man
who will celebrate Thursday as his feast day.
His renown, praise, rule and power will grow
on land and sea, bringing trouble to the East.

Submitted by NeetaT on January 20, 2010 - 12:38am.

Tears of joy run down my face. I have never been so happy in my life! I feel my financial future getting stronger by the minute. Now, please kill the health care bill.

Submitted by Veritas on January 20, 2010 - 12:48am.

I second the motion. Can you feel the change?

Submitted by briansd1 on January 20, 2010 - 1:01am.

Obama did the wrong political thing by bailing out the bankers and averting a financial collapse.

Had he let the economy go to crap, the voters would have demanded real reform.

Obama did the right thing economically. We averted a big economic collapse but few voters recognize it.

Submitted by CA renter on January 20, 2010 - 1:10am.

bsrsharma wrote:
I think Arraya and Patientrenter have it right. It is the general dissatisfaction with the direction of the nation (rather than a strong repudiation of Obama) that has caused the upset. But if this extends to November, Obama may join the Jimmy Carter & George H.W. Bush club. I think we may start seeing many one term Presidencies now onwards. When the problems are intractable, the electorate can at least take revenge by causing churn.

Agree 100% with this statement.

I'm fairly left-leaning, but would have voted against any Dems as a protest vote. They have done absolutely nothing for the American citizens. Nothing. And Obama is the leader of their "do nothing" pack.

Obama's campaign was about Main Street over Wall Street. If anything, his actions are even more egregious than Bush's (I can't believe I just wrote that). Bush was simply stupid, but Obama is deceitful, IMHO. He is serving his masters, and they aren't us.

Submitted by briansd1 on January 20, 2010 - 1:14am.

bsrsharma wrote:
When the problems are intractable, the electorate can at least take revenge by causing churn.

We have intractable economic problems for sure.

I know a lot of Republicans in real estate who really could use a recovery. But if we have a recovery, Obama will get reelected!

I think that we'll have a recovery in the near term maybe in 2011/2012. But there will be more serious economic problems ahead.

So you guys who are Republicans and have a stake in real estate, you want prices to sink further through 2012!!

Submitted by briansd1 on January 20, 2010 - 1:28am.

CA renter wrote:

Obama's campaign was about Main Street over Wall Street. If anything, his actions are even more egregious than Bush's (I can't believe I just wrote that). Bush was simply stupid, but Obama is deceitful, IMHO. He is serving his masters, and they aren't us.

I don't believe that you quite realize that, by bailing out Wall Street, Obama averted a depression. He had no other economic choice because the bankers held the cards.

Had Obama let the economy collapse, millions would have been thrown into poverty. But Obama would have accumulated great political power as FDR enjoyed.

Obama did the right thing economically.

CA renter, as a progressive, voting for a Republican in protest, is simply stupid.

Economically, centrist Democrats and Republicans are the same difference. Socially, Republicans hold bigoted, backwards values.

Vote your ideals. But live your life for yourself -- save your money and invest well to ensure your own economic survival. When you have personal money, you can do what you want.

Submitted by CA renter on January 20, 2010 - 1:38am.

brian,

There is no doubt that "something" had to be done, IMHO, but the way it was done was totally unconscionable. The big players should have been allowed to fail, and there should have been intensive investigations of the people involved in causing the credit bubble (I'm talking about the Big Boyz at the top).

The FDIC, SIPC, and PBGC (maybe even local and state govts) should have had open lines of credit with the Treasury, and the taxpayers/citizens should have been told that all their **insured** deposits would be covered. The govt should have taken over the failed institutions and transferred their assets/business to institutions that remained prudent throughout the upswing of the credit bubble, or they could have nationalized them while things were being sorted out. The Fed/Treasury could have set up a lending program as a stop-gap measure where businesses could borrow on a temporary basis while things were sorted out.

The housing should have been allowed to sort itself out, and people should have been foreclosed on if they overextended themselves or made poor "investments" while lenders should have suffered the losses they deserved because they made those ridiculous loans that any monkey could have known were never going to be paid in full.

Yes, the downdraft would have been very sharp and swift, but we would have bottomed after the cleansing that we desperately needed to get rid of the debt overhang and artificially high asset prices.

IMHO, we did not avert a depression, we've merely postponed it, and likely made it much bigger when it does come.

The problem is not solved. The people are being fooled into thinking all is well. We are making some very, very foolish choices as a nation.

Submitted by Veritas on January 20, 2010 - 2:07am.

Truth to power.

Submitted by Zeitgeist on January 20, 2010 - 2:17am.

Obama is no different than Bush. He just has different advisers. They are both owned by the same Corporations and you who are blinded by your simplistic visions of a better world are no better than those you spent eight years attacking as fascists. You are the same.

Submitted by Coronita on January 20, 2010 - 7:17am.

Dear Congressmen,

Your taxpayers called. We want the financial orgies you are perpetuating to finally stop....

Thank god this ridiculous lop-sided government is finally coming to an end. Pendulum is finally swinging the other way.

I just hope it doesn't swing back to an majority GOP in the future.

I like my U.S. government to have a nice check and balance in place so that they can agree to disagree on most everything except the really important things.

Submitted by felix on January 20, 2010 - 8:48am.

The spin machine is running overtime with your comments.

"Only 26 percent said in a June 2009 Rasmussen poll that the state's health care reform effort has been effective. This is because the costs of insurance premiums are still skyrocketing, with a predicted 10 percent increase in 2010. The cost of the plan in 2010 is more than 20 percent higher than was originally estimated, and that shortfall appears to be growing."

And health care has been cited as the number one issue among Mass voters.

"As noted in data released earlier, 56% of Massachusetts voters named health care as the most important issue." Rasmussen Reports

Mass has been the most Democratic states voting wise. It was one of only two states to support McGovern. If you equate the Dems with liberalism than it can be said to be among the most liberal states.

As far as the issues you raised as litmus tests for liberalism, the death penalty and same-sex marriage, I'm not sure how many states would have banned the death penalty or allowed same-sex marriage if these were left up to a democratic vote as opposed to judicial fiat, which is the usual avenue for liberals who only seem to want votes when they can win.

I do agree with you about this being about Obama's promise of change. Most independents supported Obama wanted change. They wanted less partisanship. They wanted a government that would work for the folks. They wanted measured action to create jobs, to eliminate the deficit and keep their home values from crashing. They were fooled.

America elected the least ready for high office person in my lifetime. A guy whose ideology and background screamed radical change by whatever means necessary. A guy whose lack of skills, other than to read a teleprompter, has abdicated leadership to Chicago pols and the likes of Pelosi and Reid.

This all was available to be known but the MSM failed us in the hate of W. They embraced this guy and looked the other way when all sorts of red flags about his background and lack of experience was there to be known.

I don't absolve Reps. They should also take notice to start doing what the folks want. They have not done what folks want either.

I been watching the Dem spin machines at work today. Some seem to understand what is happening not only in Mass but in recent elections in Virginia and in New Jersey. Most Dems though do not understand. Some are saying Obama hasn't pushed change enough. What are they smoking?

Folks are fed up. Pushing through anymore large programs will result in losing your job if you are an elected official, Dem or Rep. Ridiculing Tea Partyers is not wise strategy. The movement is grass roots and stronger than either party knows.

As far as your second issue about good politicking. All elections sway on this aspect but Coakley was hamstrung by the issues at hand which were very unpopular with the voters. Brown would have beaten almost any Dem last night. If you don't understand that, than you wil continue to lose to more and more Browns.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.