OT:Cross Country Road Trip Anyone?

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Submitted by paramount on June 25, 2012 - 8:58pm

If you've even remotely considered a cross country road trip; you might want to get started on that trip while you still can.

Today, the supreme court codified increased tyranny in this country by affirming Arizona's "Show me your Papers" law.

Soon, I have little doubt you will have to "carry your papers" wherever you travel across the country just as the Jews did in Nazi Germany.

Oh, and if I were you I'd stay the hell out Arizona; especially if you have brown skin.

Submitted by mike92104 on June 30, 2012 - 3:40pm.

I agree with spdrun. I grew up in El Paso, so I have had to deal with checkpoints for my entire life. It used to be that you would roll into the checkpoint and say "American" and be sent on your way. Now, every time I go through, my license plates are photographed and cataloged, a dog is run around the car, and It seems like I have to give my life's story to the officer to get through.

The supreme court's ruling about the constitutionality of the checkpoints only refer to their use to check the immigration status of individuals going through. The problem is that these days the checkpoints are used as a dragnet to catch any and all sorts of illegal activity. The checkpoint on the 8 coming back into San Diego actually has a sign boasting about how many arrests they've made and the different kinds of violations that were involved.

Submitted by spdrun on June 30, 2012 - 3:55pm.

mike92104 wrote:
I agree with spdrun. I grew up in El Paso, so I have had to deal with checkpoints for my entire life. It used to be that you would roll into the checkpoint and say "American" and be sent on your way. Now, every time I go through, my license plates are photographed and cataloged, a dog is run around the car, and It seems like I have to give my life's story to the officer to get through.

You don't have to give them any story, and they still have to let you through. They like to think they can bully you into telling your life's story.

Where are you coming from? East
Going to? West
Etc

Submitted by spdrun on June 30, 2012 - 5:38pm.

My family left a dictatorship to get away from exactly the kind of petty harassment that the US is now starting to provide in the name of "the war on drugs/terror/illegal immigration."

And yes, I'm somewhat of a d-bag to people who are d-bags to me. And I consider an armed person whom I don't know asking me personal questions to be highly douchy. So if I'm a d-bag in that respect, I'm proud of it.

As to medication, those who blindly listen to authority and don't question it are already on some medication --- mmmmmm, Kool-Aid...

I'm not actually paranoid that someone will use my itinerary against me. However, I feel that I should NOT need to account for my actions or whereabouts, so long as they are legal, in the US.

Submitted by spdrun on June 30, 2012 - 6:29pm.

Is politely refusing to answer questions that have questionable legality to begin with "being a D-bag," or is it good sense? You used the term "D-bag" initially, not me.

So long as you stay polite, civil, but firm, it's a battle worth fighting. Rights should NOT be easily thrown away. And I'm FAR from a one-man choir on this issue. A lot of people are enraged about the same thing, and rightly so:

http://www.google.com/search?tbm=vid&hl=...

Note that the videos weren't taken to highlight the exemplary conduct of the Border Patrol. :)

Submitted by mike92104 on June 30, 2012 - 8:18pm.

deadzone wrote:
spdrun wrote:
Even so, I'll stand on my rights, as is my DUTY as an American citizen.

And yes, I think that people who choose to follow orders to harass innocent people with personal questions that have no bearing on whether they're committing a crime, are pigs. "Just doing a job" is no excuse at all. They're free to get different jobs. Prostitution and burger-flipping are good options if they can't do anything else useful.

What is your job sdprun, professional douchebag? Seriously you should take some medication for your paranoia

What's your job Deadzone? Border Patrol Agent?

Submitted by mike92104 on June 30, 2012 - 8:41pm.

Let me relate a personal story. I was traveling to see my family back in El Paso. I was driving my Jeep CJ5 without the top or even the doors allowing anyone to see nearly every inch of my vehicle without any effort. I was stopped at a checkpoint just west of Gila Bend. I was asked the usual questions about where I was going, where I was coming from, etc. I answered them politely as I always have. I was then asked to pull off to the side for a secondary inspection. They ran a drug dog around my vehicle which turned up nothing,and then they decided to frisk me. This has never happened to me before, but I complied only because I didn't want to be detained any longer than I needed to be. I still had a long way to drive. They didn't find anything and finally let me go. Would you at least consider this to be a random search that doesn't pass the 4th amendment muster? I do.

Again, the checkpoints used to be a means of checking your immigration or citizen status. Now they are used as a dragnet to search anyone they see fit for any violation.

Submitted by mike92104 on June 30, 2012 - 8:57pm.
Submitted by sdrealtor on June 30, 2012 - 10:22pm.

I have officially been in Arizona for 4 days. Not Phoenix. I am deep and I mean deep in the heart of Mormon strongholds. Snowflake and St John are big cities compared to where I am. Just got back from a ride on a redneck roller coaster (ie the back of a pickup racing down back country dirt roads). I have seen lots of inbreeding. Dental voids abound. Mitt is god. Swap meets are good places to find chain saws, seized engines, pit bulls, rifles and saddles. I haven't seen a single border patrol agent or cop car. Not a one. I tried speeding..no takers. Open adult beverages...no takers. Blasting rap music...notakers. I even wore my Obama Hope t shirt...still no takers.

What am I doing wrong? No governmental types want to assail my rights.

Why can't I be a douchebag like sdprun? Should I be pumping my breaks to annoy tailgaters? I don't get it. This shit is supposed to be happening to me.

Looking for trouble but not finding it
sdr

I'm from California and I won't answer your questions

Submitted by paramount on June 30, 2012 - 11:14pm.

deadzone wrote:

What's the problem with that? As a citizen I am happy to know they are pulling dirt bags off the street

Thank you Patriots for all that you do; I know it's uncomfortable (to say the least) to take a stand against Tyranny. Always has been, always will be.

But know that we are on the right side of history.

The United States is well down the path to becoming a Police State.

There will always be weak minded people like dougie and dead who will readily surrender their rights to make peace with the establishment.

If it were up to these weak minded freedom haters we would still be British subjects.

And Thank You to all who have made the ultimate sacrifice in the name of Freedom.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin.

Submitted by UCGal on July 1, 2012 - 6:44am.

davelj wrote:
UCGal wrote:

Do you carry your passport with you everywhere you go?

Yes. My wallet - if that's what you would call it - consists of just four items: (1) US Passport Card, (2) drivers license, (3) ATM card, and (4) a credit card. It might be the thinnest wallet on record. If folks are required to carry a license to drive - and aren't particularly put out by so doing - how difficult is it to carry a passport card? Just sayin'...


Good for you.

My passport book does not fit in a wallet. But it does allow me to travel international by plane. Passport cards are limited to specific countries and specific modes of travel.

I'm too cheap to have both.

I'm sure you're aware that US citizens are not required to have passports. Only one in three US citizens has a valid passport.

http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppi/sta...

Submitted by spdrun on July 1, 2012 - 7:26am.

What's the problem with that? As a citizen I am happy to know they are pulling dirt bags off the street who are driving drunk, no license/insurance, etc.

So am I. Except that there are better ways to do that than wholesale or random stops. DUI can be observed. No insurance can be detected via a database of insured cars vs registered cars. Run plates at random, only pull over/tow cars that show that they're uninsured.

Why can't I be a douchebag like sdprun? Should I be pumping my breaks to annoy tailgaters? I don't get it. This shit is supposed to be happening to me.

Me? I specifically DON'T want to annoy tailgaters; just encourage them to pass. I think the guy who posted about brake-checking them was AN.

Submitted by Dougie944 on July 1, 2012 - 11:43am.

Paramount, your problem is that you cannot clearly state anything that has happened. You start by calling the law the "show me your papers law". If you are a US citizen, there are no papers to show. Very inaccurate description of the law, but you use it to try and mischaracterize the law. As I posted earlier, when traveling in Europe, you must also carry and show your immigration docs to officials and even at some hotels. I was a guest of those countries and followed their rules. No big deal.

Please explain your statement below and what suspicion-less detainment the SC affirmed.

Paramount stated: What I'm referring to is suspicion-less detainment and seizures that the activist supreme court eagerly affirmed in part to strengthen the police state agenda.

No such thing was done. Only after a lawful stop or encounter can a law enforcement officer determine immigration status. If they ask for "papers", they are only referring to legal immigrants who are already required to carry and show their immigration docs as a condition of being here. They are free not to "carry papers" back in their own
country.

If stops or encounters are unlawful, those need to be taken to court.

You are king of the straw man argument. Get your facts straight and then someone can have a rational discussion with you.

Submitted by davelj on July 1, 2012 - 11:46am.

UCGal wrote:
davelj wrote:
UCGal wrote:

Do you carry your passport with you everywhere you go?

Yes. My wallet - if that's what you would call it - consists of just four items: (1) US Passport Card, (2) drivers license, (3) ATM card, and (4) a credit card. It might be the thinnest wallet on record. If folks are required to carry a license to drive - and aren't particularly put out by so doing - how difficult is it to carry a passport card? Just sayin'...


Good for you.

My passport book does not fit in a wallet. But it does allow me to travel international by plane. Passport cards are limited to specific countries and specific modes of travel.

I'm too cheap to have both.

I'm sure you're aware that US citizens are not required to have passports. Only one in three US citizens has a valid passport.

http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppi/stats/stats_890.html

Too cheap to have both? Please. A passport card costs $55 ($40 if you already have a passport book) and is valid for 10 years. You spend more than that even on those odd occasions that you go out to eat.

Yes, I'm aware that US citizens are not required to have passports. Perhaps they should be required to have them if they are going to benefit from the protections our country provides them. Again, obtaining and carrying a drivers license does not appear to have greatly burdened the affected Citizenry... is a passport card really such a big imposition? I certainly didn't view it as such.

It's more expensive and time consuming to get your cable service hooked up. I'm not seeing the big deal.

Submitted by paramount on July 1, 2012 - 12:05pm.

davelj wrote:
I'm not seeing the big deal.

Of course you don't; fascists never do...

Submitted by mike92104 on July 1, 2012 - 2:31pm.

deadzone wrote:
mike92104 wrote:
Again, the checkpoints used to be a means of checking your immigration or citizen status. Now they are used as a dragnet to search anyone they see fit for any violation.

What's the problem with that? As a citizen I am happy to know they are pulling dirt bags off the street who are driving drunk, no license/insurance, etc. I assume you guys are the same ACLU types who are against the checkpoints in Escondido? Of course in Escondido if they (the police) find an illegal they can't do anything with them except impound their car since California is basically a "sanctuary" state.

Tell me where you would draw the line? At what point do the random searches begin to violate the 4th Amendment?

Submitted by spdrun on July 1, 2012 - 2:57pm.

Too cheap to have both? Please. A passport card costs $55 ($40 if you already have a passport book) and is valid for 10 years.

And why should I pay $55 for a duplicative document that serves no purpose, and that I'll seldom use? I travel to Europe much more often than to Canada or Mexico.

Getting a passport card if you already have a passport book is throwing away money. I have no desire to waste money, whether it's $4, $40, or $40,000. Frankly, I'd rather spend the money going out to eat -- a passport card isn't very tasty last I checked.

Submitted by bearishgurl on July 1, 2012 - 3:12pm.

spdrun wrote:

Too cheap to have both? Please. A passport card costs $55 ($40 if you already have a passport book) and is valid for 10 years.

And why should I pay $55 for a duplicative document that serves no purpose, and that I'll seldom use? I travel to Europe much more often than to Canada or Mexico.

Getting a passport card if you already have a passport book is throwing away money. I have no desire to waste money, whether it's $4, $40, or $40,000. Frankly, I'd rather spend the money going out to eat -- a passport card isn't very tasty last I checked.

If a "passport card" is the same as a "Sentri-Pass," I would think $40-$55 is a small price to pay to go thru a faster lane entering the US and be treated with more respect by the border patrol ... that is, for people who cross frequently, ESPECIALLY in San Ysidro, the largest US/MX intl border crossing.

fwiw, I don't have a valid passport. It expired many years ago and I don't have any need/desire to renew it at present. I haven't been across the border since before 9/11.

Submitted by spdrun on July 1, 2012 - 3:25pm.

Nope, a passport card is just a credit-card-sized version of a US passport. A SENTRI card is something different.

Submitted by sdrealtor on July 1, 2012 - 4:29pm.

But you can just carry your password if you like. The passport card is a convenience. People pay for convenience. It may not be worth it to you so don't sweat it. Just wear pants with bigger pockets

Submitted by spdrun on July 1, 2012 - 4:38pm.

I actually generally do carry it when traveling domestically, since it provides a form of ID that doesn't have address or much other personal info on it.

Submitted by davelj on July 1, 2012 - 4:49pm.

paramount wrote:
davelj wrote:
I'm not seeing the big deal.

Of course you don't; fascists never do...

I'm pretty sure that liking the idea of american citizens carrying around a passport card does not automatically deem one a fascist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist

Seems like a bit of a jump. Why isn't it fascist to require drivers to obtain a license? (Or perhaps it is?) Or for people to have to provide state-sanctioned birth certificates for obtaining all manner of things? (Or perhaps it is?) I could go on and on. My point is that "fascism" appears to be pretty subjective.

Submitted by earlyretirement on March 12, 2013 - 11:09am.

I missed this thread first time around. I posted an OT thread but reposting here as this thread is interesting and this video pertains to this topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpEtsREAQgk

Submitted by paramount on March 12, 2013 - 9:02pm.

earlyretirement wrote:
I missed this thread first time around. I posted an OT thread but reposting here as this thread is interesting and this video pertains to this topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpEtsREAQgk

That is a good video, I believe the 1st guy is a Pastor in Arizona and as I recall the Border Patrol did finally get around to tasering and beating him up.

Submitted by NeetaT on March 13, 2013 - 11:52am.

My skin is white and I carry a passport in my back pack at all times. I guess I could be in the country illegally as a European, who knows. I still don't mind showing someone my passport. I also think that if someone with brown skin should be searched so should I. No harm done here. I think the harm done is paying benefits to people who are in the U.S. illegally. States like CA have too many and too high taxes as it is. To me it's all about preserving my assets and not giving it away to welfare recipients who don't want to work.

Submitted by spdrun on March 13, 2013 - 1:34pm.

Logical solution isn't wholesale abuse of the Constitution. Solution is requiring proof of legal residence to conduct government business, including receiving benefits. Have a kid and you're in the US illegally. Kid is a citizen, and is welcome back in the US when he's 18 -- till then, family gets deported.

Besides, most immigrants -- legal or illegal -- work like dogs, much harder than Americans. The immigrant welfare queen is mostly a racist myth.

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