Corona Virus vs. The Bill of Rights

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Submitted by sdduuuude on March 30, 2020 - 1:32pm

The first of what will likely be many violations of the right to assemble.

I saw another article calling into question the governors right to issue Stay at Home orders.

Staying at home is the right thing to do, but is it legal to enforce it or should it be voluntary ?

Government acting to "keep people safe" is usually the foot in the door for tyranny.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/flo...

Submitted by sdduuuude on April 17, 2020 - 5:41pm.

sdduuuude wrote:
From the other thread:

FlyerInHi wrote:
outtamojo wrote:
Sounds like there will be civil unrest soon.

Yeah. The protests are starting already.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/us/protests-coronavirus-stay-home-orders/index.html

This is the conflict I was expecting.

The right to peaceably assemble and protest government action in a location where gatherings of a certain size have been forbidden.

Although, some of these seem like Trump-related childishness, not an honest protest where someone is really bothered or put out by the orders.

Submitted by outtamojo on April 18, 2020 - 10:30am.

Modern day Rosa Parks are you effen kidding me?

Submitted by outtamojo on April 20, 2020 - 2:03pm.
Submitted by FlyerInHi on April 23, 2020 - 3:12pm.

Maybe reopen and let the chips fall where they may. Let the free markets decide.
That’s this the mayor of Las Vegas says. Full interview:
https://youtu.be/APoSHB9pQk8

Submitted by The-Shoveler on April 23, 2020 - 4:13pm.

I don't know she kind of has a point, I guess we will see what happens in Georgia

Shut downs (and the poverty they cause) likely to kill more world wide than the virus would.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/04/106...

Could have achieved close to same result with a lot less drastic measures IMO.

Some of Europe, New Zealand already starting to re-open.

I hope I am wrong, but I fear it will be a whole lot harder to re-start the economy than it was to stop it.

Submitted by outtamojo on April 23, 2020 - 5:12pm.

Oh yeah its gonna be a larger problem than the real estate crash imo. I maintain suspicion and superstition led by internet pictures of body bags piled up would have cut down commerce almost as much as a formal governor-led shutdown.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on April 23, 2020 - 5:13pm.

I am beginning to agree with you shoveler. But that’s because our government has been grossly incompetent.
However, given what we know now, there would have been many more deaths. How many deaths are tolerable to the public?

South Korea didn’t do a lockdown and they did a lot better.

If we reopen now, the sacrifices of the last month might be in vain. Governments cannot afford a resurgence of infections and deaths so they will extend the lockdown.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on April 23, 2020 - 5:31pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
given what we know now, there would have been many more deaths. How many deaths are tolerable to the public?

I think it would not have been much worse IMO, had we just isolated the vulnerable.

Time will tell but I think a much much larger percentage of the population has Anti-bodies than we think.

I find it really hard to believe that this spread around the world in a month and only infected less than 2% of the population.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on April 23, 2020 - 5:54pm.

Assuming you’re right, shoveler., now that we are on lockdown, when we reopen the economy, what type of resurgence would the public accept?

Because we have already taken drastic measures, new deaths will be seen as failures by the public. It’s our fault for not having a plan for contact tracing and testing, or the ability ramp up in time. People are really scared now and unless they can get tested, and see their friends and family tested, they would not feel safe.

Example, would you have your cleaning lady or babysitter come to your house? You don’t even know if she has health insurance. The vulnerabilities of our system are becoming all apparent in a pandemic.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on April 23, 2020 - 6:00pm.

Maybe, But I think the hardest part will be getting people used to the Idea of going back to work LOL.

It is really hard to find people willing to work for less than maybe $25 or $30 dollars an hour right now.

This is the main reason I think it will be very hard to start the economy again, maybe inflation will finally become a problem again.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on April 23, 2020 - 7:29pm.

Sweden has taken a light approach.
But even so, can we backtrack after the lockdown?

Cato institute interview.
https://youtu.be/xjbk_SQk07Y

Submitted by The-Shoveler on April 24, 2020 - 7:11am.

IMO Sweden has it right.

Coronavirus: are we underestimating how many people have had it? Sweden thinks so

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-u...

Submitted by The-Shoveler on April 30, 2020 - 6:59am.

Not sure how much longer they can suppress this sentiment

Elon Musk’s F-bomb rant against lockdowns reflects ‘growing sentiment,’ says Dr. Scott Gottlieb

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 30, 2020 - 7:18am.

The-Shoveler wrote:
Not sure how much longer they can suppress this sentiment

Elon Musk’s F-bomb rant against lockdowns reflects ‘growing sentiment,’ says Dr. Scott Gottlieb

Money>life. I get it. Its just funny, with all the abortion hysterics on the right.

We will definitely be the winner for most dead at the end of it.

Americans will think, eh, it was the old and the weak, back home in heaven. But these fetuses. They had so much potential.

Youth culture gone mad. I love you little embryo. Too bad so sad, gramps.

How many life-years left for the decrepit overweight boomers? Not many, we think, dreaming of stock market highs. We are all death panelists now.

As we should be. Life is not sacred. Can we all at least agree on that?

We make that clear with foreigners lives, and the old, weak, the minority communities, anyone who has no insurance, is just a bag of water and chemicals.

the elderly suicide in MIDSOMMAR. If you've seen that movie. Scary. Great horror movie. Is what we are.

A culture of youth, sex, death, war, fear, force imprisonment and winner take all.

I often feel I hate pretty much the whole world.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on April 30, 2020 - 7:18am.

It is "NOT" a binary thing,

We could have achieved much the same result with much less drastic measures.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 30, 2020 - 7:20am.

The-Shoveler wrote:
It is "NOT" a binary thing,

We could have achieved much the same result with much less drastic measures.

Most dead in the world, but with a better quarter this year?

I'm not saying its binary, money OR life. Both are important.

But money is more important.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on April 30, 2020 - 7:22am.

The Lock downs will result in more deaths than the virus unchecked would around the world.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 30, 2020 - 7:24am.

The-Shoveler wrote:
The Lock downs will result in more deaths than the virus unchecked would around the world.

And all preventable, with the social and political will

Submitted by scaredyclassic on April 30, 2020 - 7:25am.

I'm not claiming to be better. I value money more than life.

Hell, with my large life insurance policy I'm practically life neutral nowadays.

Submitted by spdrun on April 30, 2020 - 7:54am.

Well, COVID spread seems to be declining in California, but Prettyboy Newsom decided to close beaches and parks anyway. I understand the need to close indoor places and crowded outdoor venues like stadiums, but thi is just Newsom being drunk on power and/or bowing to pressure from alarmist do-gooders.

"What we're doing is working, but let's kick people when they're down." Ugh.

Submitted by Coronita on April 30, 2020 - 8:52am.

I think newsom did the right thing closing the beaches actually. we aren't in decline yet and better safe than sorry rather than revisiting this isue again in July. Not like much businesses are depending on the beaches right now anyway. and if people want to exercise the can walk or run in the park.

Submitted by spdrun on April 30, 2020 - 9:11am.

Governor Prettyboy ordered parks closed, too. Here's the question: California's medical system isn't overwhelmed, so what's the goal here? Complete eradication? Even Newsom admits that it's unlikely.

Beaches and parks being open shouldn't be about businesses. It should be about people being able to enjoy themselves as much as possible, even during a time of crisis. Also, outside of very packed outdoor settings like stadiums, outdoor transmission has been deemed unlikely. When was the last time that you've seen groups of people within 6' of each other on a beach? Groups usually have at least one person's height between them.

Sweden has the right idea -- accept some deaths as the price of not robbing everyone of their civil liberties, but have common-sense restrictions in place (high schools closed, no gatherings > 50 people, encourage WFH even if it's not explicitly mandated).

Why are quality of human life and psychological health being discounted, and only mere length of life is being considered?

Submitted by gogogosandiego on April 30, 2020 - 9:12am.

He closed the beaches because 1000's of people are using them if/when opened and not following the guidelines. Additionally there are 100's of idiots using the beach areas as a staging area for "protests".

In SD people from all over the county come to the beaches if/when open. It's goes against the spirit of the stay home orders.

Submitted by gogogosandiego on April 30, 2020 - 9:17am.

There is no evidence of this. Pure reckless speculation.

Edit: in response to "the shutdown will cause more deaths than the unchecked virus".

Submitted by spdrun on April 30, 2020 - 9:31am.

What if they did it by license #? Restrict non-resident parking in all beach parking lots and within 10 blocks of any public beach. Plates ending with even numbers get to use beaches on even-numbered days of the month, odd numbers on odd days. Or change it to the last digit of the plate has to match the last digit of the day of the month if they're still crowded.

Yeah, the protestors are idiots -- but they're not going away any time soon if the state keeps creating restrictions that aren't based on good science. California beaches on a bad day are still probably less packed than your average line of Karens outside of a Home Depot garden section.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on April 30, 2020 - 9:40am.

gogogosandiego wrote:
There is no evidence of this. Pure reckless speculation.

Edit: in response to "the shutdown will cause more deaths than the unchecked virus".

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/africa/co...

https://thehill.com/changing-america/res...

Submitted by gogogosandiego on April 30, 2020 - 9:43am.

You're making my point.The shutdown isn't causing any of that.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on April 30, 2020 - 9:49am.
Submitted by gogogosandiego on April 30, 2020 - 9:49am.

It gets complicated. Some beaches are county, some are individual town beaches. Some are state. My friend is a lifeguard. He was telling me about open beaches with closed parking lots which means people were parking all over the streets. Fights were breaking out over parking.

Some of the beach areas here are known as being a hangout for people from East County, Others attract gangbangers (or at least want-to-be gangbangers) from the South County. Both groups were out in force this past weekend per my friend.

There was a protest in PB where a good chunk of the people were from the Temecula area. The "news" about these protests are circulating on social media and attracting any and all nutjobs from the region to descend on the beach.

Opening beaches in the middle of stay at home guidance was a disaster waiting to happen.

Submitted by utcsox on April 30, 2020 - 9:53am.

The-Shoveler wrote:
The Lock downs will result in more deaths than the virus unchecked would around the world.

Did the Corona virus write this?

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