Cooktops

User Forum Topic
Submitted by FlyerInHi on December 25, 2018 - 3:45pm

I don’t understand the love of gas cooktop. The worse part is noxious gas in the kitchen. You night get cancer from breathing gas fumes.

Induction cooktop are safe, easy to clean and are sleeker and more beautiful. Old gas cooktops are kinda gross because owners don’t clean the grates, especially the large grates.

Induction is awesome for solar houses.

This guy is a builder in Texas. He has good tips.
https://youtu.be/fwwhtsdbKFc

Submitted by spdrun on December 25, 2018 - 6:01pm.

Natural gas (as opposed to "artificial gas", which was made from coal and water) is mostly methane, which makes CO2 and water vapor when burnt. Neither of which are terribly dangerous. The odorant used is theoretically toxic, but its concentration is so low as to be irrelevant.

You're more likely to get cancer from cooking oil fumes than the gas itself.

Submitted by svelte on December 26, 2018 - 10:14am.

Any cook will tell you that it is much easier to control temperature with gas. You can change temp instantly as opposed to gradually with electric appliances.

Once one gets used to the immediate temp control of gas, it is difficult to go back to electric.

And gas cooktops aren't hard to clean. We can have our entire Viking gas cooktop clean in 2-3 minutes. Of course we aren't incredibly messy when we cook. No overflowing pots, abundance of splattering, etc. Just a minor film every once in a while.

Submitted by svelte on December 26, 2018 - 8:34am.

Dupe.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on December 26, 2018 - 12:43pm.

spdrun wrote:
Natural gas (as opposed to "artificial gas", which was made from coal and water) is mostly methane, which makes CO2 and water vapor when burnt. Neither of which are terribly dangerous. The odorant used is theoretically toxic, but its concentration is so low as to be irrelevant.

You're more likely to get cancer from cooking oil fumes than the gas itself.

Humm.... isn’t there carbon monoxide that causes brain damage?

Why are gas water heaters vented to the outside? I was told that in some localities, power vents are required to dilute the exhaust air.
If you’re cooking something for 10 minutes, then maybe no problem..... but what if you’re doing a stew, bone stock, or baking for hours or overnight?

I don’t really like burning stuff in the house. Why worsen the air quality? I think wood burning fireplaces are now banned in many new developments to be replaced with electric.

Yeah, oil fumes and charred meat are never good for health. We need to invent a solar cooktop with battery to give to poor villagers around the world. Wood and coal are major health hazards.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on December 26, 2018 - 12:51pm.

svelte wrote:

And gas cooktops aren't hard to clean. We can have our entire Viking gas cooktop clean in 2-3 minutes. Of course we aren't incredibly messy when we cook. No overflowing pots, abundance of splattering, etc. Just a minor film every once in a while.

Congrats, you’re a very clean household. I have seen all kinds.

How do you wash you Viking grates? If you have a large grate, it’s too big to fit in the dishwasher and difficult to handle over the sink. Many upscale gas ranges have griddles. I can imagine the splattering from cooking a steak on it.

Induction cooktop can be adjusted temperature wise almost instantly. They also heat faster than gas. But induction ranges are not very popular in USA. Hardly any choices, especially in the low to mid price points.

Submitted by gzz on December 26, 2018 - 1:19pm.

Gas is much cheaper than electric. I have a gas dryer, water heater, wall heater, and oven. My bill is about $25-40 a month in winter and $8 in summer.

I really doubt anything electric can cheaply replicate a roaring gas flame. My only issue with my gas oven is that it is harder to adjust at the very low end to get a slight simmer. I have to hunch down a bit and slowly turn the knob down. Otherwise it is either too high or goes out entirely.

Submitted by spdrun on December 26, 2018 - 9:33pm.

Humm.... isn’t there carbon monoxide that causes brain damage?

Carbon monoxide is produced in insignificant quantities. Gas stoves in good repair produce a blue flame -- this is a sign of complete combustion that's unlikely to produce a lot of carbon monoxide.

I've also had a CO detector in my kitchen for years -- it's never shown harmful quantities of CO while cooking.

Submitted by svelte on December 27, 2018 - 9:23am.

FlyerInHi wrote:

How do you wash you Viking grates? If you have a large grate, it’s too big to fit in the dishwasher and difficult to handle over the sink. Many upscale gas ranges have griddles. I can imagine the splattering from cooking a steak on it.

Induction cooktop can be adjusted temperature wise almost instantly. They also heat faster than gas. But induction ranges are not very popular in USA. Hardly any choices, especially in the low to mid price points.

We've had friends with induction, maybe we weren't watching close enough but we didn't see much difference in performance between that and electric...we had electric for many years in apts. Good luck talking my wife into anything but gas.

We don't clean the Viking grates on a day to day basis - we leave that for the house cleaners every 2 weeks. They look new when they get done with them, but I'm not sure how they clean them. They are certainly big and heavy. Very industrial looking.

Submitted by ucodegen on December 27, 2018 - 9:35am.

spdrun wrote:

Humm.... isn’t there carbon monoxide that causes brain damage?

Carbon monoxide is produced in insignificant quantities. Gas stoves in good repair produce a blue flame -- this is a sign of complete combustion that's unlikely to produce a lot of carbon monoxide.

I've also had a CO detector in my kitchen for years -- it's never shown harmful quantities of CO while cooking.


We have the same here, and the CO monitor, which is at stove level, has never gone off.

Personally, I like the Induction stoves, but you do need to be aware of some things:

  • Despite what the video says, all induction stove tops do not heat as fast as many gas burners - notice that he really did not do a timed side by side comparison. Since he mentioned Viking units; Viking has burners rated from 18,500 BTU all the way up and beyond 30,000 BTU. Converting that to electrical power comes up with 18,500 BTU -> 5421.79 Watts, or about 22 Amps at 240 Volts. Most breakers on stoves are around 40 amps, some more. Note also, I only considered the 18,500 BTU burner. You can run all burners simultaneously on a gas stove without 'blowing breakers'.(something that was useful when preparing food for our family Christmas dinner).
  • The temperature of the stove surface goes immediately to 3,542 degrees Fahrenheit when ignited.
  • The induction is more efficient in transferring heat energy to the pot, but his numbers 60% on gas stove are a bit misleading. It also depends upon the design of the pot. Hikers use 'adapters' to help with better heat transfer at high altitude when cooking.
  • The induction cooktop is definitely cleaner to look at and easier to clean. No comparison possible here.
  • Induction cooktops have to be glass. It is high strength tempered glass, but it still has many problems of glass - including breaking and scratching. This is partially why it is not used in restaurants - where pots/pans etc may come down a little hard in the surface and there is a high potential for wear. In short order, the glass may not look so nice.
  • I noticed that the video presenter was wearing a ring when his hand was over the supposedly cooking unit. If he was, that ring could have instantly gotten hot. Induction cooktops heat up what ever metal is above them(if they contain iron/steel). They word by radiating Electromagnetic waves that create eddy currents in the metal above them, causing the eddy currents to heat up the metal -- whether that is a pot, pan, ring or watch. The frequency of the electromagnetic waves are turned to induce current in iron based product(including steel). Aluminum pots do not work well or at all on induction cooktops. There may be some issue with stainless steel not working either. Some stainless steels are not magnetic, nor are they conductive. It is not a good idea to have electronic devices near or above them when they are running. NOTE: Some inductive stoves may have a sensor that will cause the 'burner' to automatically turn off to prevent smaller pieces of iron/steel etc from getting heated - through sensing how much electromagnetic coupling there is between the burner and 'pot'.
  • Heating pots/food on an induction stove is different than a gas. Gas works with temperature differentials - as the pot gets hotter, the stove transfers energy less efficiently to the pot. Induction works by transferring 'energy' into the pot. On an induction stove, if a pot heats up at 10 degrees /sec at room temp, it will also heat up at 10 degrees / sec right before melting. It is easier to overshoot your temperature on an induction. Maintaining a temperature on a pot requires a lower setting than on a gas.
  • Induction is safer for kids - until they discover how fast they heat up metal things. Putting your bare hand on a running stove will not give you burns.
  • Inductions stoves have a moderate amount of electronics in them - therefore possible things to go wrong. Gas stoves are very simple - effectively dumb as rocks.

    PS: You may want to avoid Miele induction stoves - they have a bug. If you turn a stove to max then immediately down to a lower level, the Miele stove still stays on the high setting for about 10 seconds.

  • Submitted by spdrun on December 27, 2018 - 9:56am.

    Q: How do you clean the grids?
    A: In a bathtub in an apartment, or just brush/soap/hose them down outside if you have a yard.

    Submitted by FlyerInHi on December 27, 2018 - 12:39pm.

    svelte wrote:

    .we had electric for many years in apts. Good luck talking my wife into anything but gas.

    FYI, the electric ranges/cooktops that you see at the big box stores are not induction they are halogen.
    Induction ranges are quite rare — they are marketed as premium.
    There are many induction plates on the market and the technology is quite cheap; so I expect that in the future, with economies of scale, induction will become standard

    Submitted by FlyerInHi on December 27, 2018 - 11:42am.

    gzz wrote:
    Gas is much cheaper than electric. I have a gas dryer, water heater, wall heater, and oven. My bill is about $25-40 a month in winter and $8 in summer.

    I really doubt anything electric can cheaply replicate a roaring gas flame. My only issue with my gas oven is that it is harder to adjust at the very low end to get a slight simmer. I have to hunch down a bit and slowly turn the knob down. Otherwise it is either too high or goes out entirely.

    For sure, gas is cheaper with existing infrastructure. But with solar house developments, you can eliminate the gas meter, the buildout and maintnance of the gas infrastructure.

    I think chefs prefer gas because they can toss things around on the stoves.... but Americans overall cook less than ever.

    Submitted by treehugger on January 7, 2019 - 2:33pm.

    I want to switch out my gas cooktop for the simple reason of cleanliness! I don't care if it is less efficient. I have 2 kids, 3 dogs, no housekeeper (no gardener either, that is why I have kids, am I totally alone in this), lots of messiness, and I hate to cook. My husband says we don't have the necessary electrical capacity in our island to switch and since we didn't upgrade before installing the new flooring I am SOL. At our last house, I had the gas line capped and installed a glass top, so much easier to dust....

    Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 7, 2019 - 3:36pm.

    Treehugger, induction is not less efficient than gas.. It’s more energy efficient. Plus induction doesn’t burn food on the glass like standard electric.
    Sorry about you situation of not having the electrical to the island.

    I helped a friend remodel to all electric because they have solar. So they got rid of the gas meter. The nice tring about electric is that they easily relocated the water heater to gain space (no need for exhaust).

    I think people like gas because TV shows have them dreaming of becoming chefs. Never gonna happen. I personally prefer the sleek euro minimalism kitchens.

    Submitted by spdrun on January 7, 2019 - 3:50pm.

    Induction is less efficient. Say the stove is 90% efficient, power transmission is 90% efficient, the power plant is 40% efficient in turning fuel to electricity (limited by thermogoddamics). .90 * .90 * .40 = 32% efficient. Unless you're running 100% renewables, it's more efficient to burn the fuel directly to produce heat.

    I like gas because it gets up to temperature basically instantly. With induction, you need special (read: expensive) pots and pans. With a regular electric cooker, it takes a while to heat up and the heat is harder to control.

    Submitted by svelte on January 8, 2019 - 10:47am.

    ucodegen wrote:

  • Viking has burners rated from 18,500 BTU all the way up and beyond 30,000 BTU. Converting that to electrical power comes up with 18,500 BTU -> 5421.79 Watts, or about 22 Amps at 240 Volts. Most breakers on stoves are around 40 amps, some more. Note also, I only considered the 18,500 BTU burner. You can run all burners simultaneously on a gas stove without 'blowing breakers'.(something that was useful when preparing food for our family Christmas dinner).
  • Glad you mentioned this. We bought the Viking so many years ago that I had forgotten that a driving reason was the Viking BTUs: they are way over what the average brand name cooktop can handle. My wife loved that!

    And it had more burners for roughly the same counter space. Which does come in handy a handful of times per year.

    ucodegen wrote:
  • The induction is more efficient in transferring heat energy to the pot, but his numbers 60% on gas stove are a bit misleading.
  • Now that you mention it, I do recall we had noticed that induction required special pots/pans to get the quick heating which was yet another reason we steered clear of induction.

    ucodegen wrote:
  • Induction cooktops have to be glass. It is high strength tempered glass, but it still has many problems of glass - including breaking and scratching. This is partially why it is not used in restaurants - where pots/pans etc may come down a little hard in the surface and there is a high potential for wear. In short order, the glass may not look so nice.
  • I don't think we took this into consideration, but it is another good differentiator.

    Nothing is perfect and everything has pros and cons, but for us gas is the clear winner. Your mileage may vary.

    Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 8, 2019 - 12:10pm.

    spdrun wrote:

    With induction, you need special (read: expensive) pots and pans.

    Ikea pots that I have work just fine on induction. Can’t go much cheaper.

    Gas is more “chef like” you can move the pan or wok to toss your food.
    I cook very simply. I am no chef but my food is still healthy and delicious.

    BTW, barkeepers’ friend is a great product to keep your stove looking like new.

    Submitted by Myriad on January 8, 2019 - 3:01pm.

    There's always this brand, lol.
    https://totalfood.com/top-nyc-chefs-rave...

    "Notably, no two Molteni stoves will be alike, as each is built to suit the cooking style of its chef. Built to last a lifetime, or longer, the Molteni Range Cooker comes with as many options including different sizes, materials and colors. For instance, buyer have the option to choose an electric solid top, a gas solid top, hot cupboard, fryer, fry top, hot surface, induction, gas burner, and gas or electric static oven. "

    Looks like most models come with a cast-iron gas cooktop. Must be really efficient when cooking for long periods of time.

    From what I hear, electric solid tops are pretty efficient. You just can't do any stir fry on electric. You have to get one of those chinese gas burners - I think they are between 50k-200k BTUs.

    In terms of cost though in SD, I think gas is cheaper.
    Gas 1therm = 99976.1 BTU
    Elec 1 kwh = 3412 BTU.
    SDG&E rates (typical home)
    Gas ~$1.36/term
    Elec ~$0.242/kwh
    For equivalent energy (29.3kWh = $7.09)

    Submitted by barnaby33 on January 8, 2019 - 4:30pm.

    Any cook? Hmmm I like induction too. Cleaner, faster to heat, though sadly still expensive. I bought a 70 dollar portable induction top for my kitchen bar so friends could prep/cook. It throws off little to no waste heat. It's only real drawback is that you have to induction ready pots, so no Calphalon.

    Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 9, 2019 - 2:48am.

    Myriad wrote:
    There's always this brand, lol.
    https://totalfood.com/top-nyc-chefs-rave...

    "Notably, no two Molteni stoves will be alike, as each is built to suit the cooking style of its chef. Built to last a lifetime, or longer, the Molteni Range Cooker comes with as many options including different sizes, materials and colors. For instance, buyer have the option to choose an electric solid top, a gas solid top, hot cupboard, fryer, fry top, hot surface, induction, gas burner, and gas or electric static oven. "

    Looks expensive and overkill for a house, unless it's a kitchen for staff in a mansion.

    for condos and small houses, I like 24 inch euro appliances. Standard US appliances are 30 inch and 36 inch for refrigerators. Too big. The smaller appliances should cost less; but due to low demand in the US market, they cost a lot more.

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