I move this topic here at powayseller's request.
It's better to keep the threats on topic.
"We don't have to assume it
Submitted by DrChaos on August 29, 2006 - 2:29pm.
"We don't have to assume it is the one true faith to demand that
the cross stay where it is. This country was founded on
Judeo-Christian beliefs and they are a part of our history."
No, and yes.
"This monument is a historical treasure." A bit of an
"These same people would have us remove all references to
Christianity out of the Constuitution."
That's a good thing, because there aren't any, and there were
The text of the Constitution is here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/...
There are exactly two places in the Constitution which
One: "no religious Test shall ever be required as a
Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United
Two: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
It is plainly obvious how the adopters of the Constitution in
1791 considered the suitable interaction between the government
and religion: keep away.
"I'm sure we've all heard that we should choose our battles
carefully. Well, when it comes to the ACLU why is it that their
lawsuits always seem to target those things that most American
hold dear? Like Christmas, Christian historic monuments, the Boy
Scouts etc and other fringe issues."
The ACLU also upholds what many people hold dear: The Bill of
Rights. You only hear about a certain fraction of the ACLU
I personally think the Mt Soledad cross is not an important
But if it were an entirely secular monument as some
proponents purport, why are there no atheists who really want to
keep it? Suppose, for instance, the cross were turned into a
white rectangle? Clearly secular and still a veterans memorial.
I bet that would make people mad. Why?
Because a rectangle is
Submitted by barnaby33 on August 29, 2006 - 2:48pm.
Because a rectangle is clearly not representative of the one true
Its not a war memorial, its a cross, and its on public
land. Nobody I know of wants to remove the memorial portion. I too
have not that much interest in its removal, except for the
vociferous objections of those that want to keep it, namely
The sooner the defenders of the cross own up to their true
motives, the sooner we can have a more civil discussion of the place
of religious symbols in public life.
Mostly I veer away from the more inflamatory subjects ie
immigration politics. Not this time. I wonder why? At the base of my
soul I really don't care whether a cross sits on Soledad. I do care
that those wanting to defend it have been so disingenuous about it.
It's in a third place, too,
Submitted by jg on August 29, 2006 - 4:25pm.
It's in a third place, too, Dr. Chaos; see "Signers" under your link:
"Done in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the
seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven
hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of
America the twelfth."
I'm just a graduate of government (public)
schools, but I think that means that there was some deference to
Christianity by the signers of the U.S. Constitution, or, at at the very
least, no aversion to its presence in the public life of the newly-found
jg, are you kidding? Since
Submitted by vcguy_10 on August 29, 2006 - 5:03pm.
jg, are you kidding? Since when "lord" became an exclusively christian
reference? It may refer to "god" in any monotheistic religion.
digress. What we have in "the year of our Lord one thousand seven
hundred and eighty seven" is nothing more than 1787 AD. As I'm sure
you learned in your public school, AD stands for anno domine,
literally "year of the lord" and is simply a system for dating. You
don't need to be a christian to use the AD or BC nomenclature when
referring to dates.
I concur with you, vcguy_10.
Submitted by PerryChase on August 29, 2006 - 5:16pm.
I concur with you, vcguy_10. The Gregorian calendar is simply a dating
system. It's now being used all over the world but people who use it are
not necessarily Christians.