Cheap developed countries

User Forum Topic
Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 8, 2019 - 10:39pm

I was reading about Greece. There is a lot of real estate for sale now because the government introduced property taxes that didn’t exist before. The government needs revenue.

Riga, Latvia is aparently really cheap with an apartment in the city center under $100k. Rents starting at 250 euros per month. That’s really cheap compared to USA.

Romania would be a borderline developed country with homeownership the highest in the world. Over 90%.

I’m thinking that when I have time, I can just travel and rent Airbnbs for extended periods. I love the travel options these days. The internet is wonderful!

Submitted by NeetaT on January 11, 2019 - 11:09am.

I would compile a list of countries that don't require a visa. Peru is one. Visas are a pain. It cost me $250.00 and a waiting period for a visa to Brazil. Some countries like to hit back at the U.S. in the same way the U.S. hits them for visas.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 11, 2019 - 12:00pm.

I speak bastante Spanish but im not crazy about Latin America because of the culture of violence. It’s like the USA but poor.

I like Mexico because it’s just next door so proximity compensate for other negatives.

Not crazy about Southern Europe. Too many scams and pick pockets.
The Baltic countries are cheap but boring.

I like Asia because the food is great and there is better safety and no violence even in poor countries.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on January 11, 2019 - 2:25pm.

"I like Asia because the food is great and there is better safety and no violence even in poor countries."

Not quite true, but they do have much better control over the news that does get out.

Submitted by barnaby33 on January 13, 2019 - 11:22am.

Speaking as someone who's married to a Peruvian and really loves Medellin (or at least used to) Latin America can be great for stretching your dollars and living above your income level. However there are no free ham sandwiches and violence is a key.

I will say though that generally Peru is safe in terms of violent crime and Lima in particular is safe so long as you stay in the better parts of the city.

For cheap and developed I'd look at Uruguay. The major drawback is it's a LOOOOONNNG way south.
Josh

Submitted by spdrun on January 13, 2019 - 11:54am.

What's wrong with Czech Republic? They're also nice because they're fairly socially liberal.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 13, 2019 - 7:41pm.

spdrun wrote:
What's wrong with Czech Republic? They're also nice because they're fairly socially liberal.

Yes. Czechkia is very nice. How could I forget since I read a book about the Petschek Villa (American Ambassy Residence).

Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 13, 2019 - 7:40pm.

barnaby33 wrote:

For cheap and developed I'd look at Uruguay. The major drawback is it's a LOOOOONNNG way south.

I have never been, but Uruguay sounds beautiful.

Other than consumer goods, the USA is one of most expensive places to live. So as Americans with USD, we have many options.

Submitted by gzz on January 15, 2019 - 10:52am.

Most of the Midwest and South are just as cheap as these places. Plenty of $600 a month apartments and $120k 4 bedroom houses in good suburban school districts.

Eastern Europe really isn't that cheap because they had a 50 year period without much construction of private detached housing.

I checked out the small town my great grandparents came from in rural Slovakia. Prices were 50k for dumps and 150-250k for nicer modern places. These areas have declining populations so wouldn't be good investments. If you want to visit, best to airbnb.

Submitted by spdrun on January 15, 2019 - 10:57am.

You can buy a 100 square meter (1000 sq ft) apartment in many Eastern European cities for about $200,000. You're in the middle of a walkable city with good public transit and nightlife, not in some Southern or Midwestern backwater.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 15, 2019 - 12:47pm.

gzz and spd, excellent points...

I would say that if you want to move to Europe, then buy in a European capital city centre where you have access to everything.

$200k is not bad if you compare to a condo in the downtown of a "shithole" American city like Knoxville. it's actually nice. but i'd much prefer to be in Europe. Comparing a capital city centre apartment to a typical suburban American house is apples to oranges.

Gzz, you're spot on with your posts before that Americans rents are much better than the rest of the world. And Airbnb is a good option. For what I get in rent on a ordinary condo in Vegas, I can rent an apartment anywhere in the world. When I have extended free time (who knows when that will be), that's what I will do.

Also great point about shrinking population. It's not a good a place to invest where population is decreasing
For those who like quiet and boring small towns, there are good deals to be had in many parts of the USA and Europe, even Japan.

I like warm capital cities.... I can picture myself in Europe in the summer and Thailand in the winter with a stay in San Diego or Hawaii in between.
I want to visit Montevideo, Uruguay. The ability to rent on sites such as Airbnb has opened up a whole lot of travel possibilities that previous generations didn't enjoy.

Submitted by gzz on January 15, 2019 - 10:00pm.

"You're in the middle of a walkable city with good public transit and nightlife, not in some Southern or Midwestern backwater."

Plenty of Midwest and South cities have large walkable city centers and 200k apartments or even large Victorian rowhouses. Is Bratislava or Ann Arbor more of a "backwater?" St. Paul or Vilnius? Minsk or Madison? Depends on the person!

Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 16, 2019 - 12:32am.

gzz wrote:
"You're in the middle of a walkable city with good public transit and nightlife, not in some Southern or Midwestern backwater."

Plenty of Midwest and South cities have large walkable city centers and 200k apartments or even large Victorian rowhouses. Is Bratislava or Ann Arbor more of a "backwater?" St. Paul or Vilnius? Minsk or Madison? Depends on the person!

Good point. An American town with a good university is better than some places in Europe. Plus the salaries are triple in USA.

Hungary and Poland have their own versions of Trump so it might be "scary". Belarus sounds depressing. Maybe Airbnb for a couple months might be fun.

However, I wouldn't want to live in places like Pensacola, Oklahoma City, Waco, Spokane, etc... Yes, it depends on the person!

Good point overall. I think I suffer from the-grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side syndrome.

For rental income, growing US cities are a good bet. Use the income to spend time anywhere in the world you may like.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 16, 2019 - 7:56am.

old people generally wanna live near their doctors

Submitted by The-Shoveler on January 16, 2019 - 8:38am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
old people generally wanna live near their doctors

LOL What ever it is you want to do, do it when you are young enough.

Its something I think people who have not had to take care of a aging parent don't get until its a little too late.

Best laid plans of mice and men.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 16, 2019 - 8:52am.

fucking old people' with their senior discounts and fearfulness and conservative worldviews.. their stupid nostalgia and medical bills. their particular smell and damaged skin

i hate them and that im becoming one.

i have a new exercise im working on to combat my general groaning when i have to get up from a supine position. u can try it too.

drop to the floor.
quickly get on your back.
quickly get back to your knees. jump up.
repeat.

i really dont want to be one of those old people who make noise when they have to stand up.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 16, 2019 - 9:16am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
old people generally wanna live near their doctors

Ain’t that the truth.

But young people are used to HMOs and never having the same doctor. There will be telemedicine in the future so that will be great for old folks who wants to retire abroad. Medicare only pays within USA.

I know an old dude who retired in Vegas where his state pension is not taxed. He moved back East because he felt neglected by the HMO. In reality, he’s just a needy old man who is used to the same doctors.

I hate old selfish people who hoard all the medical services (tucking old people, trying to be funny here, I don’t hate anyone) To them, going to the doctor’s is like a ritual to lessen loneliness and satisfy their craving for attention. To lower medical expenses and improve health, insurance companies and government should pay for (or subsidize) community center activities.

I think many people are on drugs and become painkiller addicted because they like to complain about little ailments and get prescriptions.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 16, 2019 - 9:21am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
fucking old people' with their senior discounts and fearfulness and conservative worldviews.. their stupid nostalgia and medical bills. their particular smell and damaged skin

i hate them and that im becoming one.

i have a new exercise im working on to combat my general groaning when i have to get up from a supine position. u can try it too.

drop to the floor.
quickly get on your back.
quickly get back to your knees. jump up.
repeat.

i really dont want to be one of those old people who make noise when they have to stand up.

Good for you.

Don’t grow fat. Stay thin.
Big bellies put people off balance and skinny legs can’t support heavy bellies. Simple physics.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on January 16, 2019 - 12:00pm.

Sounds like a burpee

Submitted by The-Shoveler on January 16, 2019 - 12:02pm.

I still say do it while your young enough to enjoy it.

Time waits for no man.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 16, 2019 - 12:53pm.

The-Shoveler wrote:
Sounds like a burpee

It sounds like a burpee, but it’s actually quite different. With a burpee, you’re never flat on the floor. Burpees, you drop down to a squat, kick your legs out to a push up position, do your pushup with only 4 points of connection to the floor—the hands and feet, and then kick your legs in and jump up. That’s a great exercise, approved by people in prison for fitness training for combat readiness in prison riots, and it is heavily aerobic. My exercise is modified. Basically, mine is lie down quickly, get up quickly.

But be completely laid out before you start to get up. It’s harder than it sounds when you do a bunch of them together.

It kind of simulates getting back up quickly after being knocked down in a fight, or for the elderly, getting up out of bed without slipping a disc. I figure if I keep doing those, I wont grunt when getting out of my car or get trapped on the floor of the bathroom after being unable to elevate myself from the commode. It could be modified to get down and lie on your belly as quickly as possible, then get on your feet as quickly as possible. I haven’t actually tried that yet, just the get on your back version. You rarely see elderly people who can jump up from their chairs or sofas to run out the door. Usually it’s a prolonged struggle, with an uncertain ending. It is terrifying to see my mom try to get up out of a chair. Her physical therapist actually told her for exercise to just sit down and get up, for reps. Id o not think she is practicing.

Aerobic exercise, like cycling or running, I’m not sure will save the day. Getting up is a complex thing with a lot of muscles involved. That’s why I think it might be good to train for it. Burpees will help, definitely, but my exercise will also assist, and is definitely easier than burpees. Id say start with mine, move up to burpees, do both. I get exhausted at 10 burpees. It should be very easy, even for an older person, to get up out of bed, a chair, or even off the floor, IMO. That is my plan, anyway.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 16, 2019 - 1:33pm.

I don’t know how much training helps. But it’s awesome you’re practicing.

One of my relatives is 100yo. If you ask her to show photos and talk about the past, she gets excited, zooms upstairs and gets the albums.

I have friends who were college athletes, military, etc.... they trained but they now have pains and don’t even want to pick up coins they drop on the floor. They will not be happy campers in old age.

diet of fruit and veggies, non-processes food, little meat works wonders. Staying well below BMI guidelines will help you live a long time and be mobile into old age. Eat an orange over ice cream. Drink fresh coconut water over Diet Coke.

Take care of your body because anti aging medicine, gene therapy, etc are making lots of progress. We maybe the first generation to benefit from it.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on January 16, 2019 - 5:08pm.

Buffet drinks lots of diet coke.

After workout routine.
Glucosamine hcl, collagen, turmeric and black pepper
Chase it down with whey protein , maybe a little Jello.

Not sure it works, I need to give it anther 20 years LOL.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 16, 2019 - 6:02pm.

The-Shoveler wrote:

Not sure it works, I need to give it anther 20 years LOL.

At least you got a sense of humor.

The way I look at it, if I’m gonna be financially prudent, I’d better live a long time to enjoy my money.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on January 17, 2019 - 8:02am.

Jack LaLanne was in good health right up until his death by pneumonia (he was 96, he really should have gone to the doctors he may have still been alive who knows).

He kept up a grueling workout up until the end and took supplements.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on January 17, 2019 - 8:21am.

seems unlikely id move to another country. sounds lonely.

i practiced getting up and down fast at the gym. i imagine it looked like the exercise of the mentally impaired.

Submitted by spdrun on January 17, 2019 - 9:53am.

It's not necessarily lonely if you:
(1) Move to a country that has a fairly friendly/open culture
(2) Do something that involves interfacing with lots of people (e.g. teaching or tourism industry)
(3) Are willing to learn the language and be culturally adaptable

Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 17, 2019 - 6:15pm.

I’m poorer countries, lots is lonely men (yes, men not women) from richer countries hang out at bars all day. Yet, they are less lonely than they would be in their home countries otherwise they wouldn’t come. That won’t be me because I don’t drink.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on January 18, 2019 - 1:12pm.

The-Shoveler wrote:
Jack LaLanne was in good health right up until his death by pneumonia (he was 96, he really should have gone to the doctors he may have still been alive who knows).

He kept up a grueling workout up until the end and took supplements.

In the future, there will be medical iot and telemedicine.

Grueling workout may be excessive but exercise is needed.

Good genes are best. But diet is key. Get some mice and experiment with typical all you can eat American diet vs. fruit and veggies heavy diet. That’s a good experiment for kids.

Submitted by SD Transplant on January 23, 2019 - 12:25pm.

Interesting post as I am also contemplating planning/options for retirement (about 13-15 yrs away given my kid's ages). The US is the only developed country where a large part of its citizens struggle to retire at the typical age (65ish) and maintain the same lifestyle.

Most intriguing is that in today's finance news the frequent articles that pop up are "Top 10 retirement outside of the US". I believe it is a soft attempt to prepare the nearly retirement age crowd that in the US the majority won't make it w/out strong retirement planning. The finance news media provides plan B for you if you didn't save. Hence, countries like Cost Rica, Mexico, Thailand, take your Eastern EU pick are always options to consider. I am a transplant too (23 yrs in San Diego and with the first 20 yrs in Eastern EU somewhere). Our US reality of social pension + medical cost/support will most likely drive me out of the US. It isn't for the lack of planning, but the desire to retire earlier (around 55-57).

Long ago, another transplant friend properly noted that all you need to be successful in the US, are 2 things: #1 a good work uniform, and #2 a good pajama (to be read as: work + sleep & repeat). It also tells you a bit about our society where standard/average productive people that aren't productive anymore (retired) would be better in another country or nicely pushed away.

I travel regularly, and Europe has its charm. Eastern EU is pretty cheap and fun, but the cold winters push me away. It might be a formula that Summers in Europe and Winters in (Mexico, Costa Rica, Thailand)...... I prefer tropical climate & good fishing nearby, however the wifey likes home (Eastern EU) because of the paid off real estate/social atmosphere/people/lifestyle etc.

P.S. Also interesting that most of my vacations are now planned around places I would consider retiring for winter (Mexico, Thailand are lovely -checked off my list and Costa Rica will be checked off in a few months).

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.