Becoming vegan

User Forum Topic
Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 20, 2019 - 11:19pm

Drive less

Fly less

Have fewer kids.

WE ARE THE WEATHER by Jonathan safran foer.

If you are feeling despondent about impending environmental collapse this thoughtful book might keep u going.

I think I am becoming vegan tonight

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 21, 2019 - 9:15am.

All this self sacrifice although maybe admirable are fairly useless.

"One cargo or freighter ship puts out as much pollution as 15 million cars"

At some point if we are going to get serious we will need to start GEO engineering.

Having fewer kids just means we will get run over by the developing worlds population (by Billions over the next 50 years).

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 21, 2019 - 10:39am.

Why is it self sacrifice? Eating less meat makes you healthier and you will live longer.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 21, 2019 - 10:48am.

IMO that is suspect

"The actual causal relationship between becoming vegetarian and living longer is unclear, and is certainly smaller than the correlation might seem to suggest."

So it goes with vegetarianism and longevity. It’s absolutely true that vegetarians live longer (at least among Seventh Day Adventists, the target group of the study). In fact, in this study, vegetarians live six to nine years longer, which is a huge effect. But vegetarians are also more likely to exercise, be married, smoke less and drink less alcohol—all factors that also contribute to a longer life. The actual causal relationship between becoming vegetarian and living longer is unclear, and is certainly smaller than the correlation might seem to suggest.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 21, 2019 - 10:55am.

As a population we could cut 1/2 the consumption of meat and feel no change in lifestyle.
More crunchy fresh veggies would do us good.

We could also cut 1/2 the gasoline consumption without any effect. Just drive more efficient cars. So many things we could do but we don’t because we are a gluttonous society.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 21, 2019 - 2:13pm.

IMO eating less food has more of an effect on aging than being a strict vegetarian.

If you are a strict vegetarian (or vegan) you probably need to supplement with Carnosine or bata alanine but may be you would not be a strict vegetarian at that point.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 21, 2019 - 3:17pm.

Maybe, but eating less or become vegetarian/vegan does not mean it’s self sacrifice.

People are gluttonous because animal instincts and cravings developed for scarcity. In generations past, food was expensive so people think that eating a lot is good. It’s not about self-sacrifice but about impulse control in a higher state of human development.

Submitted by temeculaguy on October 21, 2019 - 11:22pm.

Do you guys realize this is a capitalist forum? Why don't you hang out in front of the Salk Institute and hand out anti-vaccine literature.

I spent time this last week with both my adult children shopping/buying hybrids that get 50+ MPG's, not for the environment, but because I hate taxes and the math works for them. Efficient cars are not that much more expensive now, when fuel costs are factored in they are cheaper. I drove through 5 traditionally high tax states the week before (Massachusetts, Rhode island, Connecticut, New York and New Jersey) and paid an average of $2.50 a gallon. Landed at LAX, $4.15! Almost every dealer has a sub 30k hybrid that gets 50 mpg. Do it because it makes financial and tax sense. I'm hoping Tesla makes a range rover like SUV before I take the plunge, but I've got 3 years till I need to buy another vehicle so I'm optimistic. If it were today I'd shop the BMW X7 or the Lincoln Aviator, thus far the big and the beautiful don't have an electric or a hybrid but it's coming.

Fine, become a Vegan, the ultimate virtue signal, but be forewarned, vegan chicks are on another level of crazy. I had filet mignon last night from costco (fabulous meats), if more of you become vegans, supply and demand says my steak will get cheaper. But be forewarned scaredy, this is not the mid life crisis you want. It is often accompanied with an aversion to grooming of the unmentionables, "nobody got time for that."

In fact, everyone buy that book about flying less often so I can fly more. You can lose sleep about the environment and I can gain sleep by flying first class for less.

Of course I'm not feeling despondent about the environment, I feel despondent about coach on long haul flights overseas.

Submitted by Hobie on October 22, 2019 - 5:30am.

temeculaguy wrote:
vegan chicks are on another level of crazy.

Ha, you brought back wonderful memories during my dating days! 100% vegan are more nuts than horse women imho.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 22, 2019 - 9:18am.

Yeah, of course, saving money is why you want to use LED lights and high SEER air conditioners, especially in temecula. That’s called progress.

Of course, no apologies from Michelle Bachman for the light bulb freedom of choice act. Now, only morons still use incandescent light bulbs. And soon, only morons will drive gas cars.

I love never going to thegas station with my electric car. It’s like paying $1 per gallon but never having range anxiety that require a time wasting stop at a gas station.

Eat all the hormones injected fillet mignon you want but don’t take offense when you’re called fat if that’s the truth. And please take responsibility don’t cry when you have health problems.

Btw, I’m not vegetarian or vegan. But I consume very little meat. I have always been my college age weight + 5 lbs max. No back pain or ailments my peers suffer. No need to buy 500 pill bottles of ibuprofen at Costco. If one does that, there’s something very wrong with one’s diet.

Submitted by temeculaguy on October 23, 2019 - 12:57am.

Hobie wrote:
temeculaguy wrote:
vegan chicks are on another level of crazy.

Ha, you brought back wonderful memories during my dating days! 100% vegan are more nuts than horse women imho.

Love an old timer who can quote the classics, makes we want to read my old musings.

Brian, good for you, the fact that you have to tell me and everyone else about your consumption habits is where I have a problem. The best vegans are those who never discuss it, just like religious people to you. You are cool with their beliefs as long as they keep them to themselves. Be consistent.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 23, 2019 - 8:57am.

No, individual responsibility is not like religion. We owe it to ourselves and society to be responsible.

One who is spendthrift and financially irresponsible might be considered a loser. Someone with bad health habits is arguably more irresponsible than a person who can’t manage his paycheck.

Submitted by temeculaguy on October 23, 2019 - 11:49pm.

FlyerInHi wrote:
No, individual responsibility is not like religion. We owe it to ourselves and society to be responsible.

No we don't because "responsible" is subjective. Your choices and values are not mine, some align and some contradict. My definition of responsibility might contain things you oppose and vice versa. I may value service to society as time spent in a uniform, any uniform and you may value time spent in a hybrid vehicle. There is no right answer except the answer where you decide that the only right answer is what you deem acceptable, that is the wrong answer every time.

Case and point, I like women with curves. 1st wife, 2nd wife and those in between were not athletic and slim women for the most part. They didn't need seat belt extenders but they had a little extra here and there. I know that's not every guy's thing, but it doesn't make it right or wrong. You might cast judgements on me for my preference and I might thank you for not sharing my appreciation for what you consider imperfections and creating competition.

Lao Tzu would oppose breast reductions if he were alive today, I'm just trying to keep his spirit alive.

I've said it before Brian, you are not a bad guy but you seem to think you are right and you are what everyone wants to be if only they could be like you. It would liberate you to realize you are different from most others and many people want nothing more than to be nothing like you. I know it helped me on the road to self actualization. I know I don't fit into a political party, I know I don't fit into a a racial identity and I know that I hold values that others do not, nor do I believe I will convince anyone else to think like me. Try it, it is truly blissful at times.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 24, 2019 - 7:48am.

Then why the hostility and mockery of people who choose to be vegetarian or vegan? Otherwise be prepared to receive equal mockery in return.

Calling Vegans crazy is not nice. That fits in with the pattern of labeling stuff “crazy” that challenge mainstream culture — Vegans, AOC, treehugggers, etc...

Submitted by temeculaguy on October 25, 2019 - 1:34am.

Just like mockery of gun owning, trump supporting, non college educated people from the midwest is bad, because I see you do enjoy that. Look, vegans/vegetarians annoy most people not because of their personal choices but because of the behavior and that makes them a target of ridicule.

Compare it to other people. Let's compare them to the LGBT community. I think it comes down to public vs private behavior and overall goals. The wife and I have a gay couple who are very close friends, they regularly stay at our home when visiting and we vacation together, we attended each other's weddings and respect each others relationships. We also have a vegetarian couple of similar closeness. The difference is the gay couple do their thing in private, they only ask for acceptance. Their happiness does not require we act like them, just that we accept them. The vegetarian couple need us and others to eat like them otherwise their sacrifice is for not. Plus dining is social, sex is private, so I get it that the vegetarians are more likely to lecture and try to recruit. I'm golfing with the vegetarian friend Saturday, and rest assured I'll be teasing him. I especially focus on the years he ate seafood because it wasn't cuddly, species bias is an easy target, but mostly because all his beliefs and habits are forced on him by his wife, another easy target. But he will draw first blood, mentioning something about my breakfast burrito from the clubhouse and my arteries or the treatment of the pig that ended up as bacon. Somehow the gay guys do not lecture me about their dislike of the female genitalia and my fondness for it. Some vegans lack mutual acceptance, hence the mockery.

AOC was a poor choice of examples, she deserves all the mockery she gets and then some. She spends all her days criticizing others especially those who disagree with her, so she is more than just fair game, she is mandatory mockery. I don't spend my time telling everyone they can't have a man-bun, but once someone says anyone who doesn't have a man-bun is bad, that's when I will use my superpowers for evil.

Submitted by ocrenter on October 25, 2019 - 5:51am.

FlyerInHi wrote:
Then why the hostility and mockery of people who choose to be vegetarian or vegan? Otherwise be prepared to receive equal mockery in return.

Calling Vegans crazy is not nice. That fits in with the pattern of labeling stuff “crazy” that challenge mainstream culture — Vegans, AOC, treehugggers, etc...

The hostility is because deep down we all know it is wrong to keep eating meat.

Who really “doesn’t know” clinically depressed pigs and cattles are raised in disease riddled crowded factory styled pens and that animals would not naturally grow in such environment, thus the overwhelming doses of antibiotics, growth hormones, and beta agonists to help the animals not only grow but add muscle.

People need to selectively block out such reality to enjoy their meat. Vegans and vegetarians just by existing are reminders to people the disturbing reality of how we get our meat. They don’t even need to say anything and people get angry. Because it means for that brief second that person needs to confront the reality that they have chose to ignore in order to keep enjoying meat. (This is why Tesla Sentry mode is catching so many people keying Teslas, because when everyone pollutes, it was ok, there’s no alternatives. But now that you drive your less polluting EV, I’m now pissed off because I now have to justify why I still drive something that’s contributing more to climate change)

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 25, 2019 - 8:42am.

Well, electric cars on balance wont save the planet cause the electricity and the cars and the battery are dirty to produce.

But animal farming is somewhere between 17 and 50% of global emissions, depending on what effect goes into the math. I'll get you some citations

If the planet stopped animal farming, tomorrow, and we could, the impact would be huge. We cant all realistically not drive cars starting tomorrow, but we can all make a choice right now what we put in our mouths.

If the planet is on fire and global warming is an emergency and there's hope, then ignoring the problem is not just a mere Lifestyle choice...its evil.

It is, for future potential generations, unforgiveable.

If on the other hand, the planet will be fine, and Greta and the scientists and those you believe are merely poseur virtue signalists, and nutball climate concerned vegans are simply alarmists, exaggerators probably cooking the numbers for some nefarious political purpose, then yeah, they are annoying assholes trying to reduce the net pleasure of the planet by snatching that burger out of your hands.

Which one is it?

If things get bad, do not console yourself with the thought, well there was nothing I could've done anyway, or who really knew.

You knew, or should have known. You could have acted.

But change is hard. Meat is social, its bred in the bone so to speak.

Its culture. Its comfort. Its habit.

But you knew.

At the very least you knew they were burning down the amazon to make your bacon.

Hell, you read this thread.

We are all, each, individually, absolutely responsible for our share of the problem.

That's why I decided to become vegan last week.

I feel better, because I am doing something.

Is that silly?

Ive had yogurt every day for the last 30 years or so. It is very hard just not to eat cheese for me [although I will finish the stinky cheese no one else will eat so as not to waste it]. I ate some cheese most every day this decade. Eggs. Dammit. There were some gourmet donuts I was offered yesterday. No thanks.

No lecture on animal products. But no donut. Who am I too say anything, next year I'll be in a ginormous mansion with just my wife. Ridiculous. Shameful.

It was a fancy 3.00 donut.

I love fancy donuts.

This is not about ones health.

This is about the planet.

This is much bigger than the real estate bubble. It will be the biggest issue of our time.

Electric cars wont save us.

Less cars, little meat, little flying, fewer kids, might not save us...but it's the only steps you personally can take that could have an actual [though admittedly negligible] impact.

We are all part of the problem. Hell, I had 3 kids, do the less kids thing is not doable for me.

I've been stuffing my stupid face with meat and eggs and cheese my whole life. True, I dont fly much, but that was only because I despise leaving home. I suck too.

Pretty goddamn annoying little tirade, eh?I'm even giving myself a headache. I demand my longest, most irritating post of 2019 trophy, now.

Scaredy, you might say, just say fuck it, do whatever, nothing matters, have a beer and a burger and shut up, both your actual voice, your written voice and while you're at it, the voice in your head.

That gives me more of a headache.

I honestly believe we are in trouble.

Do you honestly believe we are not?

Anyway, if you read this far, thank you. And do what you really believe is right. Whatever your heart tells you. But with your heart and your eyes and your mind open and aware.

Namaste.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 25, 2019 - 8:55am.

I do not like the smell of burned meat. The smell of burned meat indoors is especially foul and lingers for weeks.
If you walk into a smelly house with a smelly, repulsive odor.... that’s from daily meat frying. Just gross.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 25, 2019 - 8:58am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
Well, electric cars on balance wont save the planet cause the electricity and the cars and the battery are dirty to produce.

But animal farming is somewhere between 17 and 50% of global emissions, depending on what effect goes into the math. I'll get you some citations

If the planet stopped animal farming, tomorrow, and we could, the impact would be huge. We cant all realistically not drive cars starting tomorrow, but we can all make a choice right now what we put in our mouths.

If the planet is on fire and global warming is an emergency and there's hope, then ignoring the problem is not just a mere Lifestyle choice...its evil.

It is, for future potential generations, unforgiveable.

If on the other hand, the planet will be fine, and Greta and the scientists and those you believe are merely poseur virtue signalists, and nutball climate concerned vegans are simply alarmists, exaggerators probably cooking the numbers for some nefarious political purpose, then yeah, they are annoying assholes trying to reduce the net pleasure of the planet by snatching that burger out of your hands.

Which one is it?

If things get bad, do not console yourself with the thought, well there was nothing I could've done anyway, or who really knew.

You knew, or should have known. You could have acted.

But change is hard. Meat is social, its bred in the bone so to speak.

Its culture. Its comfort. Its habit.

But you knew.

At the very least you knew they were burning down the amazon to make your bacon.

Hell, you read this thread.

We are all, each, individually, absolutely responsible for our share of the problem.

That's why I decided to become vegan last week.

I feel better, because I am doing something.

Is that silly?

Ive had yogurt every day for the last 30 years or so. It is very hard just not to eat cheese for me [although I will finish the stinky cheese no one else will eat so as not to waste it]. I ate some cheese most every day this decade. Eggs. Dammit. There were some gourmet donuts I was offered yesterday. No thanks.

No lecture on animal products. But no donut. Who am I too say anything, next year I'll be in a ginormous mansion with just my wife. Ridiculous. Shameful.

It was a fancy 3.00 donut.

I love fancy donuts.

This is not about ones health.

This is about the planet.

This is much bigger than the real estate bubble. It will be the biggest issue of our time.

Electric cars wont save us.

Less cars, little meat, little flying, fewer kids, might not save us...but it's the only steps you personally can take that could have an actual [though admittedly negligible] impact.

We are all part of the problem. Hell, I had 3 kids, do the less kids thing is not doable for me.

I've been stuffing my stupid face with meat and eggs and cheese my whole life. True, I dont fly much, but that was only because I despise leaving home. I suck too.

Pretty goddamn annoying little tirade, eh?I'm even giving myself a headache. I demand my longest, most irritating post of 2019 trophy, now.

Scaredy, you might say, just say fuck it, do whatever, nothing matters, have a beer and a burger and shut up, both your actual voice, your written voice and while you're at it, the voice in your head.

That gives me more of a headache.

I honestly believe we are in trouble.

Do you honestly believe we are not?

Anyway, if you read this far, thank you. And do what you really believe is right. Whatever your heart tells you. But with your heart and your eyes and your mind open and aware.

Namaste.

Just beautiful, Scaredy. I love you because you’re so intelligent, write beautifully and are a kind human being.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on October 25, 2019 - 10:34am.

"There's something happening here
But what it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware

I think it's time we stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking' their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

What a field day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly saying, "hooray for our side"

It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away

We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?"

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 25, 2019 - 9:41am.

All that meat would need to be replaced by some other food source and it would have some cost on the environment as well.

Anyway you are just going to get run over by the developing world nations.

https://www.economist.com/middle-east-an...

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Pr...

If we are going to get serious at some point we will need to do GEO engineering.

It won't stop container ships either.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 25, 2019 - 10:04am.

I’m sorry, TG, but by being a gluttonous consumer, you’re destroying the environment and your own health. Nothing to brag about even though you do it in a jovial, good humor way. You should care about your health at least as much as your finances.

It you “tease” and mock others, just take it easy when teased back. I think AOC is alright. She’s passionate young lady. I find the deplorables a lot more ridiculous and deserving of mockery.

BTW, do you prefer chunky ladies because of the look, or because they are more fun and nicer to be around?

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 25, 2019 - 10:21am.

The-Shoveler wrote:

Anyway you are just going to get run over by the developing world nations.

https://www.economist.com/middle-east-an...

Why think of it as being “run over”? Help them with development instead. That’s where a broad view of humanity as a whole is more positive.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 25, 2019 - 10:28am.

I just mean (by run over) is, you are not going to save the planet by self sacrifice and it is mostly a useless gesture.

You need to do some real engineering if you want to solve this.

Submitted by FlyerInHi on October 25, 2019 - 10:47am.

The-Shoveler wrote:
I just mean (by run over) is, you are not going to save the planet by self sacrifice and it is mostly a useless gesture.

You need to do some real engineering if you want to solve this.

Individual actions are what people control. They can change the culture.

Or some courageous policy making. Like banning big cars, food marketing, etc...

We will all be “run over” If we don’t all help to change gluttonous culture. If we were courageous, we would give up our SUVs and help the developing world leapfrog to carbon neutral.

Submitted by DataAgent on October 27, 2019 - 9:45am.

scaredyclassic wrote:
Well, electric cars on balance wont save the planet cause the electricity and the cars and the battery are dirty to produce.

I charge my EV using the excess electricity my solar panels produce. Can't get much cleaner electricity than that.

Submitted by ocrenter on October 27, 2019 - 11:38am.

DataAgent wrote:
scaredyclassic wrote:
Well, electric cars on balance wont save the planet cause the electricity and the cars and the battery are dirty to produce.

I charge my EV using the excess electricity my solar panels produce. Can't get much cleaner electricity than that.

I do agree with this. I do so myself.

Although I believe he is referring to relative impact. That vegetarianism has a bigger impact when compared to switch over from ICE to EV.

Submitted by Myriad on October 30, 2019 - 10:22am.

“Vegetarians, and their Hezbollah-like splinter-faction, the vegans, are a persistent irritant to any chef worth a damn.
To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living."
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/37262-v...

Personally, I have nothing against vegans, just don't force it upon other people and other cultures.
I don't need to eat a steak every day, but life would be so boring if I couldn't eat meat. There's just so much tasty food like:
Roast Duck
Beef Bourguignon
Al Pastor tacos
roast suckling pig
...

Submitted by temeculaguy on October 30, 2019 - 11:41pm.

So I didn't make fun of my vegan friend at golf, nor did he draw first blood. The course had no pre-made breakfast burritos or turkey sandwiches so I had trail mix for breakfast and the same at the turn. Neither of us made comments or cited studies, just had a fun day on the course, plus it was a fundraiser for a good cause. Faith in humanity was restored, or maybe it was that he was driving the shit out of the ball and my putting was on point, perfect best ball scramble scenario. Maybe humans just ignore differences when winning, either way, fun day. At the end they had one of those taco carts, he had bean tacos, I had Carne Asada. We both had beer and ubers. Maybe that is the secret, beer and Ubers. Perhaps that should be the new foreign policy for the Middle East. Seems reasonable to me.

Submitted by sdduuuude on October 31, 2019 - 12:13am.

My dad used to say that cows are incredible machines that turn grass into steak. Would be a very difficult machine to make so thank goodness we have cows. Though I hear they are trying to grow edible meat tissue in a lab now.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on October 31, 2019 - 7:01am.

IMO Goats are incredible machines as well,

They turn unwanted vegetation into milk and meat.

Before there were cows there were Buffalo so I am not sure we (people) are changing the equation on that front.

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