Bay area jobs for tech

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Submitted by kev374 on May 13, 2015 - 11:16am

Is it possible to get a $100/hr contract for Sr. Java (15+ yrs experience) in the Bay Area? If not what is the typical contracting rate?

Submitted by an on May 13, 2015 - 11:58am.

I should expect more. I just got contacted my a head hunter for a San Diego position with pay between $80-90/hr.

Submitted by Coronita on May 13, 2015 - 12:12pm.

Contracting in the bay area isn't that lucrative, especially for java.

Too many people that can do it.

Submitted by utcsox on May 13, 2015 - 1:07pm.

flu wrote:
Contracting in the bay area isn't that lucrative, especially for java.

Too many people that can do it.

What is lucrative nowadays?

Submitted by Coronita on May 13, 2015 - 1:22pm.

utcsox wrote:
flu wrote:
Contracting in the bay area isn't that lucrative, especially for java.

Too many people that can do it.

What is lucrative nowadays?

...I think mobile software still has room to run (at least in the bay area).

...Folks that can do embedded firmware seems to be be pretty high demand.

...Security engineers seem to be in demand

...I don't think there's much going on in enterprise java these days, by itself...

Contracting in Bay Area doesn't pay that well up there, unless there's some speciality they are looking for. Companies that have money don't need save money by hiring contractors to build things for the long term. They hire FTE's

Submitted by The-Shoveler on May 13, 2015 - 1:54pm.

Seeing a lot of demand for Python these days, not sure on pay.

Submitted by kev374 on May 14, 2015 - 1:11pm.

I think a lot of the Java work is going to the offshoring Indian firms.. Infosys, Wipro etc. because they have a large pool of "programmers" that can do that stuff.

Submitted by an on May 14, 2015 - 1:56pm.

When I hear Java, I wasn't thinking of server side Java. I was thinking of Android.

Submitted by Coronita on May 14, 2015 - 2:04pm.

AN wrote:
When I hear Java, I wasn't thinking of server side Java. I was thinking of Android.

That's because there's isn't much new enterprise java.

And looks like some people are trying to get away from Java on Android too.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/05/g...

Submitted by an on May 14, 2015 - 2:30pm.

I'll believe it when I see it take hold. I personally don't think this will happen in real life. Apps serve over HTTP sounds great when everybody have a gigabit connection with unlimited data. The reality is, we don't, at least not for many years to come. So, I think this will go the way of many other Google projects. Or at least, it'll be regulated to ChomeOS, where you're most likely connected to WiFi or ethernet.

BTW, I thought it's funny that they call it Dart. Dart on Android = DOA :-D.

Submitted by Coronita on May 14, 2015 - 2:33pm.

AN wrote:

BTW, I thought it's funny that they call it Dart. Dart on Android = DOA :-D.

LOL....

Submitted by an on May 14, 2015 - 2:38pm.

Another good write up comparing Dart (Google) with TypeScript (Microsoft). http://jaxenter.com/angular-typescript-d...

Angular when with TypeScript. I think Dart was created to replace Javascript, not Java. It's just that team w/in Google trying to make Android into a FirefoxOS type of platform.

Submitted by Coronita on May 14, 2015 - 2:40pm.

AN wrote:
Another good write up comparing Dart (Google) with TypeScript (Microsoft). http://jaxenter.com/angular-typescript-d...

Angular when with TypeScript. I think Dart was created to replace Javascript, not Java. It's just that team w/in Google trying to make Android into a FirefoxOS type of platform.

Or Tizen. Don't go there, please.....

Submitted by kev374 on May 15, 2015 - 8:57am.

The huge problem with Java these days is that the space is so fragmented with hundreds of different frameworks that it's virtually impossible to know all of it. Every company seems to be asking a different combination of specific skills.

As a Sr. Java Engineer you have to have expertise in front end, middle tier and also have to be an expert database tuner/administrator whereas most other areas the scope is very limited. Sometimes it's not just one database type like Oracle but they ask for expert knowledge in Oracle, SQL Server, MySQL LMAO!

DBAs deal not only with just database related tuning and programming but usually a specific database and that is the job expectation in the req.

Similarly the scope of knowledge expected from BSAs is also limited. A friend of mine makes $75/hr writing SQL queries and analyzing some tables and doing absolutely nothing else under the title "Data Analyst".

Yet a Sr. DBA or Sr. BSA earns almost the same as a Sr. Software Engineer for knowing much much less which makes no sense to me.

What is even more egregious is the job postings for Sr. Java Engineer that add in the "nice to have" section: .net development LOL!!

Imagine if I created a job posting for a doctor like this... it would be laughable:

Wanted: Sr. Pediatrician

Nice to haves:
Oncology
Anesthesiology
Neurosurgery

Submitted by Coronita on May 15, 2015 - 9:44am.

Kev, that's the problem if you're doing contracting gigs. They hire you only to solve an immediate problem, and often times they don't care about quality, so it's about cost. And you got a bunch of people who claim they know enterprise java very well and offer to do it cheaply, when in reality they aren't that good. The entire consulting thing is just seedy, a hustling industry between recruiters and employers. Enterprise java has been around for ages, and there's nothing really "new" about it, so you have a bunch of people that know how to do it "good enough", and most contracting positions don't care *that* much about quality.

It's a completely different scenario if you are hired as an FTE by a company that values software engineering. For most contracting that is available to most people, it's nowhere near as lucrative as having a good FTE position these days with a decent package..unless you plan on cheating on your taxes as a contractor. I say "most" contracting positions, because "most" consulting positions are cost driven, not driven because you know something exceptional that others don't.

If you're going to consider the bay area, I'd consider trying to get an FTE position instead of going the contracting route. Either pick a contracting position that can lead to a FTE position, or just try to get an FTE position, no matter if it kinda sucks...After about 1-2 years, you build a reputation and a resume, you can hop to a better company, and continue to build a better resume. It's not uncommon to hop up there every 1-2 years. And then after you've built a credible resume, you can come back to SoCal and get a better position.

Some recruiter just contacted me about a contract enterprise senior java position here in san diego, that is open to full time employment later. I didn't dig deeper, because I've left enterprise java awhile ago (though I can still do it if needed),..PM me if you want that lead. I'm not sure why recruiters keep contacting me about something I haven't done in a few years....

Submitted by The-Shoveler on May 15, 2015 - 9:29am.

Better yet get a gig at google and live at the facility.

That's my Fantasy position LOL.

Submitted by Coronita on May 15, 2015 - 9:40am.

The-Shoveler wrote:
Better yet get a gig at google and live at the facility.

That's my Fantasy position LOL.

I have a buddy that I just sent to Google, because the recruiter just kept contacting me over and over again, and as much as I want to go, relocating to the bay area isn't an option for me and my family at this point. Same goes for Apple. Otherwise, if I could get it, I'd go.

Surprisingly, he told me what numbers he was getting up there, and it's not as *lucrative* as people think it is, even before you factor in the cost of living up there. Either that, or I'm paid ridiculously down here (which I doubt it).
That said, my current job will probably last for another 1-2 years tops, and I've hit my glass ceiling, and doubtful I'll be a director any time soon....Since there are too many others vying for the same position and we're not growing these days...So, who knows, maybe I'll need to relocate...lol..You have the ability to move up much faster up there, or if you're lucky, start the right startup up there and do reasonably well.

As far as all the freebies you get, it's great when you're young and single...But any company that offers free dinners, I'd be worried about...Because the implication is that you'll be staying late enough to warrant a free dinner.

If you really want to work for google, talk to the recruiters that are soliciting for opportunities in OC and Venice. Amazon too in OC. Most of them have a commuter vanpool between SD and OC, so you don't even need to really drive. One of my other friends use to take the Coaster back and forth too.

Submitted by fun4vnay2 on May 15, 2015 - 3:59pm.

Although BA CoL is very high, no one in BA pays in line with highly increased salary.
The average raise on top of SD's salary is about 15-30%, does not matter if it is Google or apple.

Submitted by joec on May 15, 2015 - 7:13pm.

flu wrote:
Kev, that's the problem if you're doing contracting gigs. They hire you only to solve an immediate problem, and often times they don't care about quality, so it's about cost. And you got a bunch of people who claim they know enterprise java very well and offer to do it cheaply, when in reality they aren't that good. The entire consulting thing is just seedy, a hustling industry between recruiters and employers. Enterprise java has been around for ages, and there's nothing really "new" about it, so you have a bunch of people that know how to do it "good enough", and most contracting positions don't care *that* much about quality.

It's a completely different scenario if you are hired as an FTE by a company that values software engineering. For most contracting that is available to most people, it's nowhere near as lucrative as having a good FTE position these days with a decent package..unless you plan on cheating on your taxes as a contractor. I say "most" contracting positions, because "most" consulting positions are cost driven, not driven because you know something exceptional that others don't.

If you're going to consider the bay area, I'd consider trying to get an FTE position instead of going the contracting route. Either pick a contracting position that can lead to a FTE position, or just try to get an FTE position, no matter if it kinda sucks...After about 1-2 years, you build a reputation and a resume, you can hop to a better company, and continue to build a better resume. It's not uncommon to hop up there every 1-2 years. And then after you've built a credible resume, you can come back to SoCal and get a better position.

Some recruiter just contacted me about a contract enterprise senior java position here in san diego, that is open to full time employment later. I didn't dig deeper, because I've left enterprise java awhile ago (though I can still do it if needed),..PM me if you want that lead. I'm not sure why recruiters keep contacting me about something I haven't done in a few years....

I think the points about contracting are spot on. As you can imagine, most companies with some competitive advantage wouldn't want to outsource/contract their most important code or features.

Other than security I think, most people would rather hire FTE's or the founder themselves would work on the secret sauce that their business runs on.

When I was looking for consulting type work in the BA in the old days, it just felt really "dirty" and you sorta felt like a cheap whore just filling in a role that no one else on the team really wanted to do. If it's exciting, fun, brand new, you can bet someone else would rather do it IMO.

Some skills require special skills, but I'd guess at most places, someone on most high end tech teams probably already "could" do it, but just rather hire someone else to do the lame stuff since it's cheaper and they don't have to give up equity or really waste time hiring. I think if you're awesome or work hard, good work ethic, etc etc etc, most companies would probably want to hire you right after anyways.

I started my career consulting and got hired as a FTE pre-IPO way in the day...work after that was easy to find till I left.

Best thing with contracting is when you go home, you're home! :) No more work (unless you get called in and get even more pay I'd guess) and hours are easy.

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