Apple to hire 5,000 people in San Diego

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Submitted by gzz on April 26, 2021 - 5:50pm

Submitted by Escoguy on April 26, 2021 - 8:45pm.

One more reason to hold on to any property you own here.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on April 27, 2021 - 7:25am.

Wow!

Submitted by XBoxBoy on April 27, 2021 - 11:29am.

More and more I get the feeling that north county coastal is on its way to being the new Silicon Valley when it comes to real estate. Five years from now NCC could be the most expensive real estate in California.

Submitted by sdrealtor on April 27, 2021 - 11:44am.

Ive been calling for it for over 15 years here. The quality of life is unmatched in many ways here. I knew it was a matter of time but always thought it would be a slower process than what we are seeing

Submitted by an on April 27, 2021 - 1:55pm.

It was slow, until COVID which shook everything up. This is the new normal and we're not going back.

Submitted by Escoguy on April 27, 2021 - 2:31pm.

In eastern Germany, after the Berlin wall fell, there was a split in how time was referenced "vor der Wende" or "nach der Wende" as the change was so fundamental to all aspects of society.

We may also end up speaking about time in such a manner as pre-covid and post covid as many things won't be the same, in particular attitudes towards working from home, wanting more space etc.

Maybe we can find a more eloquent way to express it (pre 2020) or "through 19".

Still thinking Covid will linger in odd pockets so not sure we will have a clean post-covid. Personally would like to find a reference without the virus.

Submitted by Escoguy on April 27, 2021 - 2:31pm.

In eastern Germany, after the Berlin wall fell, there was a split in how time was referenced "vor der Wende" or "nach der Wende" as the change was so fundamental to all aspects of society.

We may also end up speaking about time in such a manner as pre-covid and post covid as many things won't be the same, in particular attitudes towards working from home, wanting more space etc.

Maybe we can find a more eloquent way to express it (pre 2020) or "through 19".

Still thinking Covid will linger in odd pockets so not sure we will have a clean post-covid. Personally would like to find a reference without the virus.

Submitted by sdduuuude on April 27, 2021 - 2:49pm.

Pre-20 / Post-20
PrePan / PostPan
Pre-bat / Post-bat

Submitted by DaCounselor on April 28, 2021 - 11:29am.

Funny thing is that the average Apple engineer is probably already priced out of the best North County areas....

Submitted by sdrealtor on April 28, 2021 - 11:32am.

DaCounselor wrote:
Funny thing is that the average Apple engineer is probably already priced out of the best North County areas....

Welcome back! Things are sure wild in our hood. New record coming soon

Submitted by an on April 28, 2021 - 11:46am.

DaCounselor wrote:
Funny thing is that the average Apple engineer is probably already priced out of the best North County areas....

Unless those Apple engineers came from Bay Area, in which case, they're used to pay crazy housing price relative to their income.

Submitted by DaCounselor on April 28, 2021 - 12:46pm.

So were are going north of $1.8 mil in LCV? Can we hit $2 mil this year? Insane.

Re: Apple many engineers are renters, they are way priced out of Sunnyvale, Cupertino, Mountain View, etc.

I do see major value inflation in many metro areas nationwide so I guess we're not so special here in SD after all?

Can't imagine how this trend can continue much longer but wtf do I know?!

Submitted by The-Shoveler on April 28, 2021 - 1:59pm.

I got to imagine most Apple engineers are making 130K or above, if you get two I am sure they could afford something fairly close. one. maybe not right along the coast but maybe 10-15 miles inland. or further north.

People do commute even in San Jose LOL

Submitted by an on April 28, 2021 - 2:46pm.

$130k? That's probably regular software engineer salary. 5-10 years of experience and you're looking at base of $150k-ish. Added in RSU, ESPP, cash/stock bonus, etc. and you're probably looking at $160-190k. So, if you have two of them making similar, you're now at $320-380k/year. Can probably afford $1.5-2M.

Submitted by sdrealtor on April 28, 2021 - 2:51pm.

And they are about to get a windfall after todays earnings. It should be a $200 stock this year IMO

Submitted by Coronita on April 28, 2021 - 3:21pm.

an wrote:
$130k? That's probably regular software engineer salary. 5-10 years of experience and you're looking at base of $150k-ish. Added in RSU, ESPP, cash/stock bonus, etc. and you're probably looking at $160-190k. So, if you have two of them making similar, you're now at $320-380k/year. Can probably afford $1.5-2M.

Closer to $250k total comp per person.

Submitted by utcsox on April 28, 2021 - 3:27pm.

The-Shoveler wrote:
I got to imagine most Apple engineers are making 130K or above, if you get two I am sure they could afford something fairly close. one. maybe not right along the coast but maybe 10-15 miles inland. or further north.

People do commute even in San Jose LOL

Fresh out of college Apple engineers on average make ~$180K in their first year. So, yes, it is not too hard to imagine most Apple engineers are making $130K or above.

Submitted by an on April 28, 2021 - 3:42pm.

Coronita wrote:
an wrote:
$130k? That's probably regular software engineer salary. 5-10 years of experience and you're looking at base of $150k-ish. Added in RSU, ESPP, cash/stock bonus, etc. and you're probably looking at $160-190k. So, if you have two of them making similar, you're now at $320-380k/year. Can probably afford $1.5-2M.

Closer to $250k total comp per person.


Yep, I was just under estimating to show that even on the low side, $1.5-2M is no longer crazy. at $200-250k, it should be a walk in the park.

Once we have several thousands of these engineers here, this will start pushing engineer salary here in SD.

Submitted by deadzone on April 28, 2021 - 11:00pm.

Not in San Diego they aren't making 180K fresh out of college. This isn't the Bay Area.

Submitted by Coronita on April 29, 2021 - 12:31am.

deadzone wrote:
Not in San Diego they aren't making 180K fresh out of college. This isn't the Bay Area.

It really depends. If you work for a local san diego company, chances are your compensation is based on old san diego compensation packages (minus qualcomm and intuit) If, however, you work for one of then Bay Area hq'd companies, your compensation tends to be higher than average in SD. Well at least until we have more people in san diego who end working remotely for those companies outside of san diego who pay a lot higher than the local san diego companies. And then either san diego companies will have to do something to prevent hemorrhaging of talent or have to ship those jobs overseas if they can't afford to pay more.

And if you're like me, and work for a company that was started in CA and acquired by a company hq'd in Florida, you end up in a situation where you're paid more than your VP you now work for..and it's generally not a good sign if at your meeting for your next year's compensation, your new boss starts the conversation off say something to the effect (paraphrased) "well, let me just start off by saying that currently our company pays you more than me..." which probably means there's limited upside for me, short of my boss falling over dead....(I felt like saying something witty like "well, maybe I'm just really good at negotiating my compensation packages"...but then, upon reflection, thought that would be a career limiting move.... ) Nevertheless, if I find a comparable position to my liking, offering more, remote work friendly, I'm outta here too. Show me the money.

Meanwhile, I'm having a lot of trouble hiring talent. I suddenly went from have 0 headcount to needing to hire 2 mid-level IOS engineers, 1 mid level android engineer, and 2 entry support engineers that was suppose to have been filled by mid-May. Aint gonna happen. Why? My company, based in Florida, is cheap. And they are totally out of touch with reality still expect that they can attract great mobile talent in florida by paying them shitty florida wages, and their selling point is, well here in florida we don't have state income taxes.......

True...no state income taxes. BUT....You see, engineers, particular software engineers are one of the biggest beneficiaries of the post-pandemic economy.....Because while pre-covid, there were only a few companies that allowed sw engineers to work remotely... Now, post-pandemic, if you're a company that depends on a software engineers or SDET's or SRE's, you have no choice. You have to let people work remotely or you will be at a huge competitive disadvantage versus everyone else that is allowing people to work remotely...And once you open the doors up to allowing for remote work, people (the really talented people) aren't dumb. They know that there is at least one company from CA or Bay Area that will offer to pay *almost* bay area salaries (maybe 4-6% less, anything more would be an insult), even if you work remote from say florida. So for example, in another department we lost a few SDET's in Florida, because while our cheap ass company in Florida was only willing to pay mid-level SDET's say $70k, a bay area company offered those guys a $130-140k to work remotely from florida for at least 2 years, with the option to relocate to Bay Area if they want...For bay area standards, that might be on the low side. From florida standards, that's absurd....So it's a win win for the SDET guys.. If i were in their shoes, I would have quit and joined the bay area company too. Bay area company gets someone good for slightly cheaper (not really that much cheaper), and florida person gets to make close to Bay Area salary while in Florida...That's what every tech company in these "low cost" areas now have to compete against, if not now, eventually.

San Diego is no longer consider low cost area to employ. I don't have a single engineer that makes less than $150k base. I have one fresh out of college bachelor's degree person starting as a "support engineer", which technically isn't a fully software engineer. Had to offer her just shy of $100k...For a support engineer position. Why? She had similar offers from Bay Area companies with pretty deep pockets that were allowing her to work remotely...But here's the kicker....I gave her the option to work either in San Diego or Florida.She decided she wanted to try florida out, so for someone fresh out of school with $100k in florida, she can afford a house in 1-2 years with a bachelor's degree versus if she comes her, she maybe can afford to buy a SFH if she saves and invests wisely in 10-15 years.... When she finally develops into as a full blown software engineer via internal training, I'm going to have to pay her a lot more. Otherwise, she can easily just bolt to anyone else that wants to hire her. Actually, who knows, maybe in 6-8 months, I'll be somewhere else and need people like her, and I'll poach her from my current company along with everyone else on my current team, offering them CA salaries but remote work from florida. And observe how my current company can build a new world class mobile engineering department to replace all the engineers I eventually poach.... on a Florida budget. HA!

If you're an experienced software engineer or a SRE, and you're good, there's really no reason you should ever take a "cost of living" downward adjustment for a remote job even if you live in a "lower cost area"... If a company suggests that, they are just being cheap. Companies can either spend $X or not. If they can spend $X but trying to give you $Y because you live in a lower cost area, they are being cheap. If a Bay Area company was expecting to spend $200k total comp remote or local for a engineer, and finds you from san diego, and thinks and offers you $150k instead, that company is being cheap. You should be insulted, and if you accept either you're desperate because you got laidoff and need a job or you did a pretty shitty job negotiating your comp package.

Submitted by Coronita on April 29, 2021 - 10:10am.

Also, side bar discussion. AN reminded me in CA, there's a minimum wage law for computer workers. You have to pay them a minimum of $99k/year in order to classify them as exempt employees. Otherwise, if you don't, they can't be classified as exempt and you have to pay them overtime for each hour they work over 40....

https://www.overtime-flsa.com/minimum-sa...

Submitted by deadzone on April 29, 2021 - 9:33pm.

Coronita wrote:
Also, side bar discussion. AN reminded me in CA, there's a minimum wage law for computer workers. You have to pay them a minimum of $99k/year in order to classify them as exempt employees. Otherwise, if you don't, they can't be classified as exempt and you have to pay them overtime for each hour they work over 40....

https://www.overtime-flsa.com/minimum-salary-for-california-computer-professional-overtime-exemption-becomes-96968-33-for-2020/

Well perhaps I'm old fashioned, but I don't believe this remote working paradigm is going to stay around as much as many think. Right now we are living in total wacky world due to Covid and more importantly the government's response to it by printing trillions of dollars and flooding the capital markets with absurd amounts of cash. As a result, companies can afford to pay obscene salaries and bonuses regardless of workers productivity. I don't believe for one second that organizations are as productive with their folks working from home compared to the office. sure in some cases yes, but on average, no way. Eventually this will be exposed.

Submitted by Reality on April 29, 2021 - 11:04pm.

My team is just as productive but I've got good staff. There are drawbacks to remote but I'm not sure they outweigh the positives. I've never been one to micromanage and neither has my boss so remote wasn't that huge a change in that regard.

Submitted by The-Shoveler on April 30, 2021 - 7:11am.

My company has basically gone full time remote (except for Labs and production).

Not renewing leases on buildings and sub leasing unused parts of the ones we keep.

Submitted by deadzone on April 30, 2021 - 8:22am.

Reality wrote:
My team is just as productive but I've got good staff. There are drawbacks to remote but I'm not sure they outweigh the positives. I've never been one to micromanage and neither has my boss so remote wasn't that huge a change in that regard.

It is do-able with a senior experienced staff who you know you can rely on. On the other hand I can't imagine hiring a new college grad for an entry level technical position right now.

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