about switching jobs...

User Forum Topic
Submitted by Coronita on July 29, 2021 - 10:05pm

this guy is a fvcking genius...he takes switching jobs to a whole new level.

Submitted by Coronita on July 29, 2021 - 10:07pm.

i laughed...lol.

Submitted by XBoxBoy on July 30, 2021 - 6:53am.

Brilliant!

I've wondered how many people are doing this. At the company I work, there are a couple people I wonder if they aren't working another job as well. One programmer has gone over a month checking in nothing, and then when pressed on it, checked in about a days work. (I think he's playing games all week though, not working two jobs)

Another would do some work, then nothing for a couple weeks, do a bit more and then nothing for another couple weeks. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he doesn't have multiple jobs.

Submitted by an on July 30, 2021 - 7:21am.

This brings new meaning to side hustle LoL

Submitted by scaredyclassic on July 30, 2021 - 10:10am.

Subcontract

Submitted by Coronita on July 30, 2021 - 3:25pm.

scaredyclassic wrote:
Subcontract

Actually, two of my guys were joking about this because they work out of Mexico City most of the time. (They have a greencard, but with remote work, they chose to remain in Mexico City)...

I was joking that what they should do is go find 10 of these jobs, and hire 15 engineers in mexico city at 1/5 of the cost of a US engineer and let them do the work....and just manage the work....

They asked if they could do this for their own work in my group. I said, don't say, dont tell. My only condition is if they could find me a director to at 1/5 my cost....lol

Submitted by scaredyclassic on August 1, 2021 - 8:54am.

It's the logical consequence of corporations outsourcing work. Americans will hold jobs but outsource everything

Submitted by deadzone on August 1, 2021 - 11:59am.

It is so obvious that a large percentage of folks are just effing off most of the time with this work from home situation.
That's why I don't believe for a second that this is going to be a permanent or long term shift.

At some point corporations (and even government) are going to have to be productive once all the pandemic related and other corporate handouts wear off.

Submitted by svelte on August 1, 2021 - 12:43pm.

The first guy mentioned (holds jobs for 2 months, does nothing, gets paid then fired) would never be hired by me because I'd trash-can his resume as soon as I saw the length of his stay at his prior employers.

The hire-folks-to-do-my-work path is riddled with problems. What if those folks steal code and pass it off as their own work? Many companies today check very closely the licensing of software they reuse out of fear of being sued. Not knowing who is "writing" your code and therefore whether any of it is proprietary to another company or covered under some sort of license (BSD, GNU, GPL, MIT, Apache or more restrictive types) leaves the company wide open.

Submitted by XBoxBoy on August 1, 2021 - 1:05pm.

deadzone wrote:
It is so obvious that a large percentage of folks are just effing off most of the time with this work from home situation.

How is that different than all the effing off they were doing while at the office?

Submitted by XBoxBoy on August 1, 2021 - 1:06pm.

svelte wrote:
The first guy mentioned (holds jobs for 2 months, does nothing, gets paid then fired) would never be hired by me because I'd trash-can his resume as soon as I saw the length of his stay at his prior employers.

Somehow I doubt his resume accurately reflects his work history. You would only find out after checked references, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have references that are less than honest.

Submitted by Coronita on August 1, 2021 - 2:58pm.

deadzone wrote:
It is so obvious that a large percentage of folks are just effing off most of the time with this work from home situation.
That's why I don't believe for a second that this is going to be a permanent or long term shift.

At some point corporations (and even government) are going to have to be productive once all the pandemic related and other corporate handouts wear off.

if corporations wanted to be productive, they would fire all the bloviater status bean counting project managers, specially in the defense industry and public sector. when i interned at a defense company, god talk about the endless meetings after meetings. Please, dont tell me about efficiency.... in most of these industries, having 10 engineers in meeting after meeting is hardly efficient. even before work remotely... and this problem at these american companies have been around for decades....despite all the feeble attempts to make a conpany more efficient....and when layoffs do happen, its rare that these bean counters are the ones to get laidoff in the defense and public sector.
..since they have visiblility to the directors, vps, and ceos...they are usually the last to go...the first is usually the workebee grunts stuck with the 2.5% COLA raises. just saying....

Submitted by Coronita on August 1, 2021 - 5:19pm.

XBoxBoy wrote:
svelte wrote:
The first guy mentioned (holds jobs for 2 months, does nothing, gets paid then fired) would never be hired by me because I'd trash-can his resume as soon as I saw the length of his stay at his prior employers.

Somehow I doubt his resume accurately reflects his work history. You would only find out after checked references, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't have references that are less than honest.

it would be hard for a prospect employer to figure it out due to confidentiality of your employment history and how it is up to how you report it. Background checks (for jobs not requiring a security clearance ) are mainly just to check your criminal record and the work history you provide... you have complete control of the work history narrative....Furthermore,the employer is only allowed to confirm a candidates work date and title, and not ask for any reason for termination, nor will the company provide that information, again for confidentiality and liability reasons....

If the guy really has the guts to pull this off and pull in 1.5 million in one year, he will be smart enough to cover his tracks...and he wont need to worry about working for 5-6 years minimum...longer, if he manages his bounty well.

we are the dumb ones who play a straight game... how long will it take most of us to earn 1.5m on salary alone???

Submitted by Coronita on August 1, 2021 - 3:38pm.

svelte wrote:
The first guy mentioned (holds jobs for 2 months, does nothing, gets paid then fired) would never be hired by me because I'd trash-can his resume as soon as I saw the length of his stay at his prior employers.

The hire-folks-to-do-my-work path is riddled with problems. What if those folks steal code and pass it off as their own work? Many companies today check very closely the licensing of software they reuse out of fear of being sued. Not knowing who is "writing" your code and therefore whether any of it is proprietary to another company or covered under some sort of license (BSD, GNU, GPL, MIT, Apache or more restrictive types) leaves the company wide open.

For most of these jobs, they are wannabe FinTech startups that got a lot of VC funding. Most of them want to make a proof of concept so that the company can raise the next round of funding, get acquired, or go public.
80% of them wont be around in 2 years. we arent talking about a defense or public sector job or something requiring a security clearance. Think a company like WebVan or pets.com. these are the companies thats so lax on review process, interview process, so yes you can get away with it if you dont mind compromising your work ethics.
and theres a lot of short term money to be made this way. Silly Silicon Valley...

Your concerns about code stealing, licensing, etc are overblown. The code isnt important enough or revolutionary enough to be worth stealing in most of these fintech startups....and you wont be able to tell if you are the guy obtaining the code from the the cheaper outsourced labor, do the code review, and the gitlab/github checkin, which you would do if you were trying to pass if off as your own code...at these fintech startups, no one gives a shit... thats why these people can get away with what they are doing...its one of the reasons why i got out of these fintech startup bay area pushes i generation ago. the goal is short term exit strategy and to cash in...different for the few of us that are in the game trying to make a difference, where we use our rental income to pay the bills so we can try to find an opportunity we enjoy doing ... hopefully ill get there one day.

Submitted by deadzone on August 2, 2021 - 8:00am.

XBoxBoy wrote:
deadzone wrote:
It is so obvious that a large percentage of folks are just effing off most of the time with this work from home situation.

How is that different than all the effing off they were doing while at the office?

Similar but far worse. You don't think the fact that folks are sitting at home with absolutely no visibility from supervisors or management has an impact on productivity?

And to Flus comment, of course there is an over abundance of meetings in corporate america. But being physically present at a meeting is surely more productive than sitting at home "virtually" attending the meeting while you are literally whacking off.

Submitted by svelte on August 2, 2021 - 9:26am.

Coronita wrote:

Your concerns about code stealing, licensing, etc are overblown. The code isnt important enough or revolutionary enough to be worth stealing in most of these fintech startups....and you wont be able to tell if you are the guy obtaining the code from the the cheaper outsourced labor, do the code review, and the gitlab/github checkin, which you would do if you were trying to pass if off as your own code...at these fintech startups, no one gives a shit... thats why these people can get away with what they are doing...its one of the reasons why i got out of these fintech startup bay area pushes i generation ago. the goal is short term exit strategy and to cash in...different for the few of us that are in the game trying to make a difference, where we use our rental income to pay the bills so we can try to find an opportunity we enjoy doing ... hopefully ill get there one day.

Yeah that sounds pretty unrewarding...prototype code to entice investment. There was a point in my career about 10 years in when I realized that none of the code I had written was still in use - none! It was kind of depressing.

After that my batting average was much better, but looking at the shelf life of most code it is only 5-10 years in my experience. Then it gets replaced. If it doesn't get replaced, it really falls into the "technical debt" category.

Submitted by Coronita on August 2, 2021 - 11:30am.

svelte wrote:
Coronita wrote:

Your concerns about code stealing, licensing, etc are overblown. The code isnt important enough or revolutionary enough to be worth stealing in most of these fintech startups....and you wont be able to tell if you are the guy obtaining the code from the the cheaper outsourced labor, do the code review, and the gitlab/github checkin, which you would do if you were trying to pass if off as your own code...at these fintech startups, no one gives a shit... thats why these people can get away with what they are doing...its one of the reasons why i got out of these fintech startup bay area pushes i generation ago. the goal is short term exit strategy and to cash in...different for the few of us that are in the game trying to make a difference, where we use our rental income to pay the bills so we can try to find an opportunity we enjoy doing ... hopefully ill get there one day.

Yeah that sounds pretty unrewarding...prototype code to entice investment. There was a point in my career about 10 years in when I realized that none of the code I had written was still in use - none! It was kind of depressing.

After that my batting average was much better, but looking at the shelf life of most code it is only 5-10 years in my experience. Then it gets replaced. If it doesn't get replaced, it really falls into the "technical debt" category.

Svelte. At this one large company. I think I worked on a total of 3 versions of a licensing/DRM/subscription system.. When I left that big company after doing 2 tours, they were still working on licensing/drm/subscription. And 2-3 years after when I met up with the architects and senior managers...Guess what they were working on still? Yup licensing/drm/subscription.

I don't know, but for a lot of engineers. I think it's the awesome situation to be in. I mean think about it. You can design/architect/implement all this technology using the latest and greatest technology and tools (I mean for god sake, we were spending $10-20k on a hardware web services accelerators that no one else was using and willing to spend money on). And after 1 year of development, the system for (political and not technical reasons) doesn't get used, so no engineer has to stay up in war room duties to triage and fix production issues...And then the next year, when the political winds change, a brand new architecture and tools, technology, to do the same exact thing, that somehow is better than the previous version (when none of the learnings of the previous iteration went into the current iteration), only for that new "better" system get shelved for political reasons 1 year later... I love the efficiencies of big bureaucratic US companies. And you wonder why these companies can only afford to give their workerbees 1-3% COLA raises. lol....

At least with the startups, there's a clear goal and exit strategy. Get bought or go IPO and collect money...Works when you are young and don't care. I'd highly recommend it to those who are in the 20ies and early 30ies. And hopefully you can make enough dough to do what you really want to do by the time you're in your mid 30ies.

Submitted by scaredyclassic on August 2, 2021 - 11:37am.

Most human effort is pointless or actually backwards moving.

Submitted by Coronita on August 2, 2021 - 12:23pm.

deadzone wrote:
XBoxBoy wrote:
deadzone wrote:
It is so obvious that a large percentage of folks are just effing off most of the time with this work from home situation.

How is that different than all the effing off they were doing while at the office?

Similar but far worse. You don't think the fact that folks are sitting at home with absolutely no visibility from supervisors or management has an impact on productivity?

And to Flus comment, of course there is an over abundance of meetings in corporate america. But being physically present at a meeting is surely more productive than sitting at home "virtually" attending the meeting while you are literally whacking off.

Lol...Most of those meetings people are mentally whacking off except the bloviators. Reality is these people, who seem so "amoral" are simply taking advantage of existing inefficiencies that Corporate America has already established for some time, and taking it to another level by actually profiting off of it.

Of course there are some companies that you can't do this in. Those defense/public sector jobs where you have manager checking you and watching you where hours completed per day matter more than the actual work completed...Beancounting ridden company, which in itself is a miserable place to work imho.

Submitted by XBoxBoy on August 2, 2021 - 2:22pm.

In a crazy twist relevant to this thread, I found out today that about 1/3 of our development staff is working on a "side-project" in their "spare time" while working from home. Something they hope will allow them to quit and create their own startup company. Of course upper management knows nothing about this.

It's a fascinating idea to me that maybe companies suddenly start loosing work from home employees because they've had enough time to pursue their start up dreams... Suddenly your employees are your competitors!

Submitted by deadzone on August 2, 2021 - 3:17pm.

XBoxBoy wrote:
In a crazy twist relevant to this thread, I found out today that about 1/3 of our development staff is working on a "side-project" in their "spare time" while working from home. Something they hope will allow them to quit and create their own startup company. Of course upper management knows nothing about this.

It's a fascinating idea to me that maybe companies suddenly start loosing work from home employees because they've had enough time to pursue their start up dreams... Suddenly your employees are your competitors!

Doesn't surprise me at all. Like I keep saying, this work at home concept is clearly unproductive and ripe for abuse. Management not having any visibility into their employees whereabouts is not sustainable. Anyone who thinks this can continue forever is in fantasy land.

Submitted by Coronita on August 2, 2021 - 3:50pm.

XBoxBoy wrote:
In a crazy twist relevant to this thread, I found out today that about 1/3 of our development staff is working on a "side-project" in their "spare time" while working from home. Something they hope will allow them to quit and create their own startup company. Of course upper management knows nothing about this.

It's a fascinating idea to me that maybe companies suddenly start loosing work from home employees because they've had enough time to pursue their start up dreams... Suddenly your employees are your competitors!

This was going on even before remote work, although now it's just makes it a lot easier. Given the right motivation, anyone will do this under any condition. It's just a matter of motivation when one comes to the realization that they will never obtain their financial goals from their job alone and that they won't just "take it" as is.

When I was at a big employer, while several of us were working on trying to move up and get promoted, a coworker of mine was a Senior Software Engineer and just put his minimum 40 hours/week, didn't go after the high profile projects, and kept with the easy low hanging fruit projects and did enough to get by. He kept his office door closed most of the time.

It turns out he was studying for his real estate license, operating as a real estate agent for the few years, started his own real estate brokerage firm the next few, and then ended up being one of the top brokers in 92130, all while he was employed as a senior software engineer at this big company. He was paid decently, and when raises and bonuses where handed out, they weren't that much lower than anyone else...And when the company did layoffs, of course he was laidoff, but so were a lot of people that worked their asses off..The difference? When he was laidoff, he was laughing his ass off because he was planning to quit anyway, since his firm already had like 15 people and he wanted to do it full time because the money was way better. He was happy to get laidoff because they gave him a huge severance package, and he never needed to go back and work for someone else again. I think during that time he bought like 10 SFH in 92130 when things were less than $1million each...and he's one of those guys that never sells. So... he killed it.

Those of us that use to work 50-60+ hours for those small incremental raises/bonus that after taxes are the dumb ones...We we busying making other people rich, lol.

Don't for minute thing this doesn't happen even if you work at a company that well compensates you with stock/options/bonus. I have plenty of friends that work at qualcomm as managers/directors, and all of them do the same thing. They all run their side rental business...A director friend just bought homes in Denver, Atlanta, Riverside this year, on top of the few they bought last year and the year before....I guess the job is easy enough in corp R&D at QC that plenty of people moonlight even while being well paid with RSU stock grants and bonus.

Common thing with these people is the same thing. They know how to take care of themselves and are smart enough to figure out not to count on a company to take care of them....especially when companies reward people with simple COLA adjustments YOY.

Short of a massive stock option appreciation, its unlikely a salary alone will make anyone whole in this market, especially this housing market. That's just reality. The quicker one learns this in life, the better of one is sooner.

A lot of successful companies started from people that worked for another company. As long as you aren't stealing code, it's really not a big deal. At least now that people are home, they aren't going to be using company resources to do it. Even for my work, I don't use the company computers I use my own dedicated hardware which is 4x faster and doesn't have all the monitoring software watching me. Since all the code is checked into gitlab and/or github in the clouds, doesn't matter.

Submitted by XBoxBoy on August 2, 2021 - 3:49pm.

deadzone wrote:
XBoxBoy wrote:
In a crazy twist relevant to this thread, I found out today that about 1/3 of our development staff is working on a "side-project" in their "spare time" while working from home. Something they hope will allow them to quit and create their own startup company. Of course upper management knows nothing about this.

It's a fascinating idea to me that maybe companies suddenly start loosing work from home employees because they've had enough time to pursue their start up dreams... Suddenly your employees are your competitors!

Doesn't surprise me at all. Like I keep saying, this work at home concept is clearly unproductive and ripe for abuse. Management not having any visibility into their employees whereabouts is not sustainable. Anyone who thinks this can continue forever is in fantasy land.

If you only look at it from the employer's point of view I agree with you, but I'm fascinated with the idea that in the next year or two we could be seeing an explosion of new startups. These are people who used to think they needed to go to the office every day and work a job. Now they have been working from home for the last year and found they like it. The boss is making noise about getting people back into the office and these folks are thinking about an alternative to what they used to do. It could be really interesting to see this unfold.

Submitted by Coronita on August 2, 2021 - 3:58pm.

XBoxBoy wrote:
deadzone wrote:
XBoxBoy wrote:
In a crazy twist relevant to this thread, I found out today that about 1/3 of our development staff is working on a "side-project" in their "spare time" while working from home. Something they hope will allow them to quit and create their own startup company. Of course upper management knows nothing about this.

It's a fascinating idea to me that maybe companies suddenly start loosing work from home employees because they've had enough time to pursue their start up dreams... Suddenly your employees are your competitors!

Doesn't surprise me at all. Like I keep saying, this work at home concept is clearly unproductive and ripe for abuse. Management not having any visibility into their employees whereabouts is not sustainable. Anyone who thinks this can continue forever is in fantasy land.

If you only look at it from the employer's point of view I agree with you, but I'm fascinated with the idea that in the next year or two we could be seeing an explosion of new startups. These are people who used to think they needed to go to the office every day and work a job. Now they have been working from home for the last year and found they like it. The boss is making noise about getting people back into the office and these folks are thinking about an alternative to what they used to do. It could be really interesting to see this unfold.

As a boss, if your workers are finding a way to get what you thought would take 40hrs/week to get done what they are getting done in 20hrs/week and moonlighting the rest of the 20hrs/week. That's not their fault. That's your fault and your poor management for giving them 40 hours to get it done when it only would take 20 hours...or that's the fault of your shitty company that makes their workers waste 20 hours/week in useless meetings, when it only takes about 20 hours/week to do the real work.

I'll be honest. Working from home, there were times many times I was dialed into "status meetings" that lasted hours while I was changing my oil, picking up my kid from school, dropping them off, or washing my car...My contribution was the standard 10 minute status update from mobileland, and the rest was listening to every other bean counter bloviate. If you have more than 5 people in a meeting and it lasts longer than 20 minutes, it's, it's going to be a waste of time. People check out at the 20minute mark and if you can't get to the point within that window, the rest people will just be mentally masturbating. It's going to be a waste of time. At the end of the meeting, there was no decision made that was any better than before the meeting. The only thing that was accomplished was my car was clean, an oil change was done, and my kids got to go see their friends or attend a school event without the need of juggling a carpool.

Submitted by Coronita on August 2, 2021 - 4:09pm.

Actually, talking to more people who do this...
A few folks I know actually use Upwork do to their work...

lol...

https://www.upwork.com/

No wonder this company is doing well. It's like an auction for hired work....

Might have to try it some day...Can't resist change. As Star Trek will say... Resistance is futile.

I wonder if what sort of work you can get out of the $10/hour android engineers, hmmmmmmmmmm

https://www.upwork.com/hire/android-deve...

Submitted by Coronita on August 2, 2021 - 4:13pm.

Need a graphic designer or media specialists for your side hustle, no problem....

https://www.upwork.com/hire/graphic-desi...
https://www.upwork.com/cat/design-creative

Submitted by Coronita on August 2, 2021 - 4:12pm.

Need someone to market your shit.... Also, no problem...Lol...

https://www.upwork.com/cat/sales-and-mar...

Submitted by deadzone on August 2, 2021 - 5:13pm.

XBoxBoy wrote:

If you only look at it from the employer's point of view I agree with you, but I'm fascinated with the idea that in the next year or two we could be seeing an explosion of new startups. These are people who used to think they needed to go to the office every day and work a job. Now they have been working from home for the last year and found they like it. The boss is making noise about getting people back into the office and these folks are thinking about an alternative to what they used to do. It could be really interesting to see this unfold.

Well of course they like it. They are getting paid full salary and bonuses to sit at home and in many cases do virtually nothing. Of course that is not a recipe for long term success. When I say do virtually nothing I'm talking about work related, I'm sure they are doing a lot of surfing, hanging at the beach, etc. during the work day.

For me I realized through the Pandemic and work at home that I don't really like my job that much either. However, I am no more motivated to work a different job. I just realized that I don't care to go to work in general, sort of like the epiphany the guy in Office Space came to after he was hypnotized.

Submitted by deadzone on August 2, 2021 - 5:22pm.

Coronita wrote:
XBoxBoy wrote:
deadzone wrote:
XBoxBoy wrote:
In a crazy twist relevant to this thread, I found out today that about 1/3 of our development staff is working on a "side-project" in their "spare time" while working from home. Something they hope will allow them to quit and create their own startup company. Of course upper management knows nothing about this.

It's a fascinating idea to me that maybe companies suddenly start loosing work from home employees because they've had enough time to pursue their start up dreams... Suddenly your employees are your competitors!

Doesn't surprise me at all. Like I keep saying, this work at home concept is clearly unproductive and ripe for abuse. Management not having any visibility into their employees whereabouts is not sustainable. Anyone who thinks this can continue forever is in fantasy land.

If you only look at it from the employer's point of view I agree with you, but I'm fascinated with the idea that in the next year or two we could be seeing an explosion of new startups. These are people who used to think they needed to go to the office every day and work a job. Now they have been working from home for the last year and found they like it. The boss is making noise about getting people back into the office and these folks are thinking about an alternative to what they used to do. It could be really interesting to see this unfold.

As a boss, if your workers are finding a way to get what you thought would take 40hrs/week to get done what they are getting done in 20hrs/week and moonlighting the rest of the 20hrs/week. That's not their fault. That's your fault and your poor management for giving them 40 hours to get it done when it only would take 20 hours...or that's the fault of your shitty company that makes their workers waste 20 hours/week in useless meetings, when it only takes about 20 hours/week to do the real work.

I'll be honest. Working from home, there were times many times I was dialed into "status meetings" that lasted hours while I was changing my oil, picking up my kid from school, dropping them off, or washing my car...My contribution was the standard 10 minute status update from mobileland, and the rest was listening to every other bean counter bloviate. If you have more than 5 people in a meeting and it lasts longer than 20 minutes, it's, it's going to be a waste of time. People check out at the 20minute mark and if you can't get to the point within that window, the rest people will just be mentally masturbating. It's going to be a waste of time. At the end of the meeting, there was no decision made that was any better than before the meeting. The only thing that was accomplished was my car was clean, an oil change was done, and my kids got to go see their friends or attend a school event without the need of juggling a carpool.

I generally agree with you about the meetings. But beyond that you are full of it. If you are working for me I'm paying you to contribute to my business, not take care of personal affairs. If you get done with your tasks in 20 hours then either 1. you did a half ass job, or 2. you need to ask your manager for more tasking or 3. preferably a motivated employee will take the initiative and find more things to do that contribute to the team such as taking lead on new projects, helping out teammates who are struggling, etc.

Submitted by an on August 2, 2021 - 5:47pm.

deadzone wrote:
I generally agree with you about the meetings. But beyond that you are full of it. If you are working for me I'm paying you to contribute to my business, not take care of personal affairs. If you get done with your tasks in 20 hours then either 1. you did a half ass job, or 2. you need to ask your manager for more tasking or 3. preferably a motivated employee will take the initiative and find more things to do that contribute to the team such as taking lead on new projects, helping out teammates who are struggling, etc.

Not everyone wants to overachieve. Some people are fine w/ meeting expectation. If you can meet expectation, that's all that matters.

Submitted by Coronita on August 2, 2021 - 6:27pm.

deadzone wrote:
Coronita wrote:
XBoxBoy wrote:
deadzone wrote:
XBoxBoy wrote:
In a crazy twist relevant to this thread, I found out today that about 1/3 of our development staff is working on a "side-project" in their "spare time" while working from home. Something they hope will allow them to quit and create their own startup company. Of course upper management knows nothing about this.

It's a fascinating idea to me that maybe companies suddenly start loosing work from home employees because they've had enough time to pursue their start up dreams... Suddenly your employees are your competitors!

Doesn't surprise me at all. Like I keep saying, this work at home concept is clearly unproductive and ripe for abuse. Management not having any visibility into their employees whereabouts is not sustainable. Anyone who thinks this can continue forever is in fantasy land.

If you only look at it from the employer's point of view I agree with you, but I'm fascinated with the idea that in the next year or two we could be seeing an explosion of new startups. These are people who used to think they needed to go to the office every day and work a job. Now they have been working from home for the last year and found they like it. The boss is making noise about getting people back into the office and these folks are thinking about an alternative to what they used to do. It could be really interesting to see this unfold.

As a boss, if your workers are finding a way to get what you thought would take 40hrs/week to get done what they are getting done in 20hrs/week and moonlighting the rest of the 20hrs/week. That's not their fault. That's your fault and your poor management for giving them 40 hours to get it done when it only would take 20 hours...or that's the fault of your shitty company that makes their workers waste 20 hours/week in useless meetings, when it only takes about 20 hours/week to do the real work.

I'll be honest. Working from home, there were times many times I was dialed into "status meetings" that lasted hours while I was changing my oil, picking up my kid from school, dropping them off, or washing my car...My contribution was the standard 10 minute status update from mobileland, and the rest was listening to every other bean counter bloviate. If you have more than 5 people in a meeting and it lasts longer than 20 minutes, it's, it's going to be a waste of time. People check out at the 20minute mark and if you can't get to the point within that window, the rest people will just be mentally masturbating. It's going to be a waste of time. At the end of the meeting, there was no decision made that was any better than before the meeting. The only thing that was accomplished was my car was clean, an oil change was done, and my kids got to go see their friends or attend a school event without the need of juggling a carpool.

I generally agree with you about the meetings. But beyond that you are full of it. If you are working for me I'm paying you to contribute to my business, not take care of personal affairs. If you get done with your tasks in 20 hours then either 1. you did a half ass job, or 2. you need to ask your manager for more tasking or 3. preferably a motivated employee will take the initiative and find more things to do that contribute to the team such as taking lead on new projects, helping out teammates who are struggling, etc.

Actually, no I'm speaking the truth of american run companies by incompetent people that magically survive getting laidoff and fired.. Take this example.

So at 9:30 AM Project Manager J decides to hold a meeting for 1.5 hours with every department head in my company. The purpose of the meeting is to talk about how we should organize our scrub teams. Department A has 15 people and currently wants to organize into two scrum teams of 7 and 8 respectively with each team dedicated to project A and project B.. Department B has 15 people and want to organize one big scrub team of 15 people where tasks of project A and project B feed into 1 scrum team, since Department is a platform/shared services team. Department C is a team of 8 people where management thinks it's a great idea to have dedicated teams for each project, but since department C is understaffed and and has 4 different projects. That would be about 2 dedicated people per team. My department is 18 people and my engineers and I discussed how we want to tackle doing 24 apps on two platforms across 4 customers, and we figured the best way to do this is to do a hybrid approach in which we have 1 product backlog, 1 scrum team but two team leads handling 2 different verticals and interfaces with everyone else.

The purpose of this 1.5 hour meeting was to try to reach alignment with 1-size fit all across all department on how to organize the scrum teams so that everyone is the same, despite we all have all work different. I participated in this meeting for the first 10 minutes and gave them my opinion: every team is different, and every team should organize based on what they seem fit...And each team should appoint someone to attend 1 cross functional sync up status meeting twice a week so that we can make sure we have alignment....Then everyone else debated and got into a pissing match on which organizational structure was better.

I made a bet with my engineers on my team that 1.5 hours later, we would end up going off and each department would do the same thing. Meanwhile, I told everyone else to go get some beer/boba/ice cream, and just stay dialed in... I did my oil change on my X5, ND miata, NA miata, and my audi dialed into Zoom on mute.

At the conclusion of the meeting....Every department left and continued to do with what they were doing, the project manager decided to hold another meeting 1 week later, 1.5 hours, to see if we can get alignment....

Now this is roughly a 300 person company...It's way worse at a 600-1000+ company that I've worked at... Similar thing happens at at a large defense company and especially in the public sector. The public sector is especially known for its inefficiencies. That's why when private sector employees take on a public sector job for the first time, the first month, they probably want to slit their wrists...

This is also why at some of these companies, people end up wanting to work at a small startup. Because a small startup cannot be this moronic, or if they are, they won't be around much longer, in which case if that's the case (like a pets.com), you don't even need to show up to work most of the time and be worried about being fired because all the executives won't be around when the startup goes under anyway....back to the point of what this guy in the beginning was doing.

There's a lot of dumb startups with dumb ideas with dumb management and dumb employees. And if you recognize that, it's entirely possible to be on their payroll getting paid well for doing very little work with very little consequences of showing up. And theoretically if you scale this approach to multiple companies at the same time, you could in theory make a good deal of money in a short period of time what it would take a normal worker 7-8 years to do, maybe longer....

My boss almost made me do this recently by dropping all technical phone screen and interview requirements to fill mobile engineers in the interest of getting the headcount filled. I refused and got reprimanded for it, but I didn't want to end up with someone that didnt know how to code.

But in all seriousness, if I attended every single meeting on my outlook calendar that I'm scheduled for. I could fill up my work day every single day M-F just attending useless meetings after meetings and not get anything done....Some hours, I'm doublebooked for useless meetings. more than half are useless sync up meetings, or status meetings....

The 3 biggest time wasters in a company are
1. Endless meetings and powerpoints (Elon was right)
2. Sales make a sales on a product we don't have.
3. Incomplete product requirements, and back and forth between product management and engineering to figure out exactly what to build.

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