4S Ranch feels like Curry Campground to me. Anyone else?

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Submitted by lendingbubbleco... on November 6, 2006 - 2:17pm

Driving through there this weekend, noticed just how weird parts of the 4S Ranch community feel. Everyone still had their fake spiderwebs up from Halloween, too. Fake spiderwebs on fake "quality", if you ask me. The place just looks and feels "cheap" too.

And what is it with the stone covered front window, "hobbit" house look that is so common in there?

Last bit of my rant...why would people pay 700K, 800K, or more to live so close to each other on zero lots? These homes are disgusting examples of what went wrong.

Submitted by blahblahblah on November 6, 2006 - 2:26pm.

I don't get the "Curry" part of your post, what does that mean? The homes are definitely cookie cutter, that's for sure. They were some of the only entry-level homes available in that part of town for a while, so I'm sure a lot of first time buyers stretched to get into them. That might explain some of the "delayed" maintenance you see. But hey, it's only a week after halloween. When I was growing up, if we got the Christmas decorations down before Valentine's Day, we were doing good!

Submitted by an on November 6, 2006 - 2:27pm.

Completely agree with you. Went and check out the models and they all are ugly. Seems like they're trying to squeeze as much sq-ft in the lot available. That's why they all look like a box. Lot that used to hold only 1000-2000sq-ft house now hold 3000-4000 sq-ft. It's ridiculous.

Submitted by Doofrat on November 6, 2006 - 2:28pm.

One of my wife's co-workers lives in one of these communities (could even be 4s) and they got a box with Halloween decorations to put up and were told to encourage their neighbors to put their box of decorations up as well. Probably same thing happened there, everybody putting up the same box of decorations.

Submitted by lindismith on November 6, 2006 - 2:50pm.

The Curry part threw me too!

I googled it, and found that's the name of the public campground in Yosemite - with the bell tents, and the chalets - sort of Disneyland-meets-Thomas-Kinkaid-look. (read schlock.)

Submitted by lendingbubbleco... on November 6, 2006 - 3:00pm.

It felt to me like these people are living in million-dollar tents, occupying very small and very public campsites. That's what made me think of the public campsites (Curry) in Yosemite National Park.

Sorry for the confusion.

Submitted by powayseller on November 6, 2006 - 3:08pm.

The PUSD Transportation Dept employee told me that he has lots of 4S Ranch students on payment plans. The parents are telling him they are stretching to make their payments, and have ARMs. They've got 400 kids on payment plans, up from 100 just a few years ago. I think 4S Ranch was one of the few subdivisions in the PUSD. We didn't get any subdivisions in Poway, due to their open land policies and their low growth plan, so 4S Ranch was the only area here that people stretched into.

I was inside a few homes when I looked at rentals, and the lots are very close together. In one home, I felt like in a fishbowl in the backyard, because there is 0 privacy. The 2-story homes back to each other and look down on each other, so your neighbor can see you from his bedroom window, just a couple feet away. One 2300 sq ft home had so many small rooms, it felt like one of those kids' playhouses. I kept shaking my head and wondering who would spend so much money on a house on a tiny lot.

Those tiny lots are disgusting. I like high density living in condos or townhomes, but a SFH deserves to have some decent space around it. I have more privacy in my townhome backyard, which is a row of attache homes adjacent to each other and with open space behind, than I would have had in any of the three 4S Ranch rentals.

I just don't understand why people buy those big houses on those tiny lots. Do they just settle for it, or do they like not having the yard work? It boggles the mind...

Submitted by lendingbubbleco... on November 6, 2006 - 3:11pm.

Saw a lot of "scarecrows" er, "For Sale" signs in there as decorations too. Those "decorations" probably won't be coming down until well after Valentine's Day ;)

It's a pretty spooky sight...

Submitted by PerryChase on November 6, 2006 - 8:15pm.

I don't mind the density. But I hate the prices. I beleive that there should be a price density trade-off. The higher the density, the lower the price. I think that if Downtown condos were all in the 100k-150k range, we'd have a fun thriving hub with all sorts of employment and things to do.

Submitted by capeman on November 6, 2006 - 9:15pm.

Yeah but with that density it is tough to beat the candypersquarefootage they have there at Halloween. It's a trick-or-treater's heaven... and yes at 29 I did partake with the little one's. The A.W.E.S.o.M-O costume worked well.

Submitted by bubble_contagion on November 6, 2006 - 9:25pm.

At least they have fake spider webs. In some near future they may have real spider webs.

Submitted by Steve Beebo on November 6, 2006 - 9:59pm.

I've heard that lots of homeowners in 4S Ranch are having to eat low-grade dog food for dinner.

Submitted by svelte on November 29, 2011 - 8:38am.

I've never quite understood the appeal of 4S myself, kind of like I've never fully understood SEH. Both a bit claustrophobic to me.

Funny thing is we drove my son and his GF (from northern CA) through SEH last week and she almost went nuts with excitement in the town square area. Different strokes, I guess.

Submitted by earlyretirement on November 30, 2011 - 12:02pm.

I totally agree and posted a few posts earlier this year. We were never interested in 4S Ranch but we drove around and looked at some houses when we were in the due diligence stage during our home search.

We wanted to see for comparison purposes what they have to offer in 4S Ranch. I couldn't believe how cheaply built some of the newer houses being built there were.

I just didn't get it either that people would pay $700k to $800's to live in 4S Ranch. Yes, I know the school district is great there but I just didn't see the appeal of people paying those kind of prices for that quality of home.

There is a huge dividing line from the $700's on up and it seems like many people in 4S Ranch are really stretching or stretched to live there.

We ended up buying in Santaluz. It was more expensive at around $1 million vs. 4S Ranch but the quality was so much better, low density, homes were gorgeous, lot and grounds meticulously maintained, etc. Also, I like the fact that the HOA is so strict. People get letters saying to take down your Halloween decorations. Some things are super picky like you can only paint your garage/house one color but we enjoy living in Santaluz.

At those kinds of prices, I'd bite the bullet and buy in a nicer area but I just think it comes down to people really stretching to buy at those prices to begin with and won't get qualified to spend more.

The kick in the pants is that most of 4S Ranch still has Mello Roos taxes just like other nicer areas so it's not like you are saving money there. You still have the MR taxes in 4S Ranch.

I will never understand the appeal of people spending $800's to buy in 4S Ranch.

The high density, zero lot lines are not just limited to 4S Ranch however. When we were looking at houses, we looked at several in Carmel Valley and it was very bad there as well and much more expensive per sq. foot. Neighborhoods like Pacific Highlands Ranch in Carmel Valley had some beautiful homes but the density was horrible! Some houses you had 5 homes directly looking into your back yard. (3 behind and 2 side houses) all looking directly on your zero lot line back yard. I couldn't understand people paying $1 million for those houses either. But at least there wasn't Mello Roos in many of the CV neighborhoods like 4S Ranch.

Submitted by ocrenter on November 30, 2011 - 12:27pm.

4S and SEH is perfect for middle class families that put good schools on top of their list. $400-$600K range is what 4S/SEH homes should be at. Essentially, we are looking at folks that make around combined $125k range.

If you are in brackets over that, it isn't your cup of tea.

The problem of course is the bubble pushed the prices beyond the $600k barrier even though the houses remained in that $400-$600k quality. Especially the north side where the houses are even more tightly packed in as the builders hurried to jam in homes as the bubble was ready to pop.

Submitted by an on November 30, 2011 - 1:02pm.

ocrenter wrote:
4S and SEH is perfect for middle class families that put good schools on top of their list. $400-$600K range is what 4S/SEH homes should be at. Essentially, we are looking at folks that make around combined $125k range.

If you are in brackets over that, it isn't your cup of tea.

The problem of course is the bubble pushed the prices beyond the $600k barrier even though the houses remained in that $400-$600k quality. Especially the north side where the houses are even more tightly packed in as the builders hurried to jam in homes as the bubble was ready to pop.


There's no way a HHI of $125k could comfortable afford $400-600k with the HOA & MR that those areas have. Now, if you remove the HOA & MR, then I would agree with you. With HOA and MR at 4S, Del Sur, & SEH level, I would say the price should be more around $300-500k for a HH with HHI of $125k to comfortably afford.

Submitted by an on November 30, 2011 - 1:03pm.

delete

Submitted by bearishgurl on November 30, 2011 - 1:06pm.

ocrenter wrote:
4S and SEH is perfect for middle class families that put good schools on top of their list. $400-$600K range is what 4S/SEH homes should be at. Essentially, we are looking at folks that make around combined $125k range.

If you are in brackets over that, it isn't your cup of tea.

The problem of course is the bubble pushed the prices beyond the $600k barrier even though the houses remained in that $400-$600k quality. Especially the north side where the houses are even more tightly packed in as the builders hurried to jam in homes as the bubble was ready to pop.

ocrenter, is $400-$600K currently what the average listing price range is in 4S and SEH? And if a typical lot in this price range is only, say, 3800 sf, what size is the house, can a mid-size car fit in the driveway w/o hanging over the sidewalk and what would be its typical list price of today?

Submitted by UCGal on November 30, 2011 - 1:19pm.

bearishgurl wrote:
ocrenter wrote:
4S and SEH is perfect for middle class families that put good schools on top of their list. $400-$600K range is what 4S/SEH homes should be at. Essentially, we are looking at folks that make around combined $125k range.

If you are in brackets over that, it isn't your cup of tea.

The problem of course is the bubble pushed the prices beyond the $600k barrier even though the houses remained in that $400-$600k quality. Especially the north side where the houses are even more tightly packed in as the builders hurried to jam in homes as the bubble was ready to pop.

ocrenter, is $400-$600K currently what the average listing price range is in 4S and SEH? And if a typical lot in this price range is only, say, 3800 sf, what size is the house, can a mid-size car fit in the driveway w/o hanging over the sidewalk and what would be its typical list price of today?


To answer your question BG, I bolded the answer in OC's comment.

The houses are NOT in that price range - they got pushed up by the bubble and didn't return to what they should have.

Submitted by ocrenter on November 30, 2011 - 1:57pm.

UCGal wrote:

The houses are NOT in that price range - they got pushed up by the bubble and didn't return to what they should have.

thank you UCGal

Submitted by all on November 30, 2011 - 2:04pm.

AN wrote:
ocrenter wrote:
4S and SEH is perfect for middle class families that put good schools on top of their list. $400-$600K range is what 4S/SEH homes should be at. Essentially, we are looking at folks that make around combined $125k range.

If you are in brackets over that, it isn't your cup of tea.

The problem of course is the bubble pushed the prices beyond the $600k barrier even though the houses remained in that $400-$600k quality. Especially the north side where the houses are even more tightly packed in as the builders hurried to jam in homes as the bubble was ready to pop.


There's no way a HHI of $125k could comfortable afford $400-600k with the HOA & MR that those areas have. Now, if you remove the HOA & MR, then I would agree with you. With HOA and MR at 4S, Del Sur, & SEH level, I would say the price should be more around $300-500k for a HH with HHI of $125k to comfortably afford.

There is a difference between two income family making $125K combined and one-income family with college-educated stay-at-home-by-choice parent making the same amount of money and the latter is more common than the former in 4S Ranch.

PITI on $500K with 25% down in 4S is ~$2600-$2800. With tax deductions we are talking $2-$2.2K month. It would be nicer if it was $1,500, but $2,200 on one salary of $10K/month is doable without much stretching.

Submitted by ocrenter on November 30, 2011 - 2:08pm.

AN wrote:
ocrenter wrote:
4S and SEH is perfect for middle class families that put good schools on top of their list. $400-$600K range is what 4S/SEH homes should be at. Essentially, we are looking at folks that make around combined $125k range.

If you are in brackets over that, it isn't your cup of tea.

The problem of course is the bubble pushed the prices beyond the $600k barrier even though the houses remained in that $400-$600k quality. Especially the north side where the houses are even more tightly packed in as the builders hurried to jam in homes as the bubble was ready to pop.


There's no way a HHI of $125k could comfortable afford $400-600k with the HOA & MR that those areas have. Now, if you remove the HOA & MR, then I would agree with you. With HOA and MR at 4S, Del Sur, & SEH level, I would say the price should be more around $300-500k for a HH with HHI of $125k to comfortably afford.

At $125k, you are averaging $10k per month. $500k house with 20% down at 4.5% mortgage rate you are looking at $2000 monthly mortgage. Add $700/month for property tax and MR/HOA, so that'll be $2700/month. That's less than 30% of income on housing.

And remember you do get 20% of that mortgage interest and property tax back on tax refund.

I would not lump del sur in with 4S/SEH, Del Sur MR and HOA is at least $300 more per month compared to 4S/SEH.

Submitted by an on November 30, 2011 - 2:45pm.

ocrenter wrote:
At $125k, you are averaging $10k per month. $500k house with 20% down at 4.5% mortgage rate you are looking at $2000 monthly mortgage. Add $700/month for property tax and MR/HOA, so that'll be $2700/month. That's less than 30% of income on housing.

And remember you do get 20% of that mortgage interest and property tax back on tax refund.

I would not lump del sur in with 4S/SEH, Del Sur MR and HOA is at least $300 more per month compared to 4S/SEH.


Oh, you're talking $125k after tax HHI. Then I totally agree with you. I thought you're talking about before tax $125k HHI.

Yes, Del Sur MR+HOA is ~$300/month more. $300/month equate to about $60k in price when broken down to monthly payment. So, my $300-500k for Del Sur would be ~$360-560k.

Submitted by an on November 30, 2011 - 3:06pm.

captcha wrote:
There is a difference between two income family making $125K combined and one-income family with college-educated stay-at-home-by-choice parent making the same amount of money and the latter is more common than the former in 4S Ranch.

PITI on $500K with 25% down in 4S is ~$2600-$2800. With tax deductions we are talking $2-$2.2K month. It would be nicer if it was $1,500, but $2,200 on one salary of $10K/month is doable without much stretching.


It doesn't matter if it's dual income $125k HHI or single income $125k HHI. What matter, is if it's before or after tax. $125k before tax, even with single income is still not enough to comfortable afford $600k (w/out HOA/MR), much less $600k in areas like 4S/SEH where HOA+MR comes out to be another ~$400.

Why did you use 25% vs 20%? Does that help your numbers? Using conventional 20%, $400k loan on a $500k house with today's rate (assuming you have great credit), the P+I is $1900. Tax should be about $450 + ~$400 for HOA+MR + ~$100 for insurance, and you're looking at $2850/month. Tax deduction is ~$330/month. So, we're looking at ~$2500/month after tax deduction. $125k before tax would be about $100k after tax. That's $8300/month. So, we're looking about $5800/month after tax to spend on other things besides your shelter. How much do you think a typical family spend on eating, gas, student loans, car loan, etc? Now, about medical expenses? Then, how about retirement? If you're prudent and max out your 401k AND IRA (assuming Roth for both spouses), that would come out to $3600/month. So, just after retirement, you only have $2200/month to spend on eating, gas, student loans, car loans, entertainment, after school activities, travel, medical expenses. I'm ONLY using a $500k house example too. Imagine how much tighter it'll be if I use a $600k house example.

Submitted by all on November 30, 2011 - 3:41pm.

AN wrote:
captcha wrote:
There is a difference between two income family making $125K combined and one-income family with college-educated stay-at-home-by-choice parent making the same amount of money and the latter is more common than the former in 4S Ranch.

PITI on $500K with 25% down in 4S is ~$2600-$2800. With tax deductions we are talking $2-$2.2K month. It would be nicer if it was $1,500, but $2,200 on one salary of $10K/month is doable without much stretching.


It doesn't matter if it's dual income $125k HHI or single income $125k HHI. What matter, is if it's before or after tax. $125k before tax, even with single income is still not enough to comfortable afford $600k (w/out HOA/MR), much less $600k in areas like 4S/SEH where HOA+MR comes out to be another ~$400.

Why did you use 25% vs 20%? Does that help your numbers? Using conventional 20%, $400k loan on a $500k house with today's rate (assuming you have great credit), the P+I is $1900. Tax should be about $450 + ~$400 for HOA+MR + ~$100 for insurance, and you're looking at $2850/month. Tax deduction is ~$330/month. So, we're looking at ~$2500/month after tax deduction. $125k before tax would be about $100k after tax. That's $8300/month. So, we're looking about $5800/month after tax to spend on other things besides your shelter. How much do you think a typical family spend on eating, gas, student loans, car loan, etc? Now, about medical expenses? Then, how about retirement? If you're prudent and max out your 401k AND IRA (assuming Roth for both spouses), that would come out to $3600/month. So, just after retirement, you only have $2200/month to spend on eating, gas, student loans, car loans, entertainment, after school activities, travel, medical expenses. I'm ONLY using a $500k house example too. Imagine how much tighter it'll be if I use a $600k house example.

Single vs. dual matters because part of the 'comfortable' is psychological. I am more comfortable spending $X/month if I know that I can easily generate another $50K/year income stream.

I used 25% because that's what it takes to get the best rate. Your tax deduction is rather conservative. Assuming $600 in principal payment and $100 insurance (and skipping the MR deductible-or-not discussion) the deduction should be ~25-30%, i.e. ~$500-600/month.

Looking around, most 4S families are either families of retired/active military officers or immigrant engineers working at major SD companies. Usually with limited medical bills (decent insurance) and no student loans (foreign educated, government paid, etc).

I am not saying what you are getting in 4S Ranch is worth the money, just that fiscally-responsible single-income $125K/year family can rather comfortable afford $500K place.

Submitted by earlyretirement on November 30, 2011 - 4:55pm.

UCGal wrote:
bearishgurl wrote:
ocrenter wrote:
4S and SEH is perfect for middle class families that put good schools on top of their list. $400-$600K range is what 4S/SEH homes should be at. Essentially, we are looking at folks that make around combined $125k range.

If you are in brackets over that, it isn't your cup of tea.

The problem of course is the bubble pushed the prices beyond the $600k barrier even though the houses remained in that $400-$600k quality. Especially the north side where the houses are even more tightly packed in as the builders hurried to jam in homes as the bubble was ready to pop.

ocrenter, is $400-$600K currently what the average listing price range is in 4S and SEH? And if a typical lot in this price range is only, say, 3800 sf, what size is the house, can a mid-size car fit in the driveway w/o hanging over the sidewalk and what would be its typical list price of today?


To answer your question BG, I bolded the answer in OC's comment.

The houses are NOT in that price range - they got pushed up by the bubble and didn't return to what they should have.

I agree that the houses SHOULD probably be in that price range but the problem is that they aren't so it doesn't really matter what we all think prices should be at.

The point is they still seem to be moving at those inflated prices. The market is based on supply and demand and there are still people willing to pay those kind of inflated prices for 4S Ranch it seems like. I sure can't figure it out but I guess that doesn't matter to Mr. Market.

If the builders can get $700's and $800's for that inferior quality then good for them I guess. I just couldn't see shelling out that kind of money for that kind of house. But plenty of people seem to be willing to pay those kinds of prices.

Submitted by mp7444 on November 30, 2011 - 5:25pm.

bearishgurl wrote:
... And if a typical lot in this price range is only, say, 3800 sf, ...

The original post is quite old... I guess in that time some of the lots may be about that size. But I know that many of the new homes in the $700-$800's are in the lot size about 7000sf.

earlyretirement wrote:

We ended up buying in Santaluz. It was more expensive at around $1 million vs. 4S Ranch but the quality was so much better, low density, homes were gorgeous, lot and grounds meticulously maintained, etc. ....

ER, I am glad you enjoy living in SantaLuz. I probably would as well if I had the money. I don't think it's a fair comparison as 4S and SantaLuz are not in the same type of homes anyway. Unless you're talking about the Ivy Gate, or the Salviati, or the Mission Ranch (to be built in 2012)

Submitted by an on November 30, 2011 - 6:51pm.

captcha wrote:

Single vs. dual matters because part of the 'comfortable' is psychological. I am more comfortable spending $X/month if I know that I can easily generate another $50K/year income stream.

I used 25% because that's what it takes to get the best rate. Your tax deduction is rather conservative. Assuming $600 in principal payment and $100 insurance (and skipping the MR deductible-or-not discussion) the deduction should be ~25-30%, i.e. ~$500-600/month.

Looking around, most 4S families are either families of retired/active military officers or immigrant engineers working at major SD companies. Usually with limited medical bills (decent insurance) and no student loans (foreign educated, government paid, etc).

I am not saying what you are getting in 4S Ranch is worth the money, just that fiscally-responsible single-income $125K/year family can rather comfortable afford $500K place.


Psychological is different for different people. Some might find it more comforting that both parents are working and it's easier to find a job when you were recently employed vs being out of the work force for so long.

How many people actually put down 25%? I don't know the statistics, but I would assume it's not that many. Especially people in the $400-600k range. I compute my tax deduction based on (interest + tax - standard deduction) * 25% tax bracket. You forgot the standard deduction in your calculation.

Even with decent insurance where you don't have to pay for any of the premium, you still have out of pocket stuff, dental stuff, vision stuff. They add a little or a lot, depend on how much you use/need. How many people don't have student loans? Why am I hearing all the talk about student loans being a huge problem, yet you don't think anyone in 4S have student loans? I didn't even talk about saving for rainy day yet, just retirement. Again, lets assume you're right and those who live in 4S spend $0 on medical and student loan, how much does a family spend a month? You have $2200 to play with. How much would be a good rainy day saving? To me, comfortable would be saving $1k-2k/month for rainy day, on top of maxing out 401k and IRA. That would leave this theoretical family $200-1200 to spend on everything else. I don't consider that comfortable.

All of this is talking about a $500k house too, how about a $600k house? If you recall, ocrenter was saying $400-600k and I said it should be more like $300-500k. Ideally, it would be $300-500k w/out HOA&MR.

Submitted by all on November 30, 2011 - 10:57pm.

AN wrote:
captcha wrote:

Single vs. dual matters because part of the 'comfortable' is psychological. I am more comfortable spending $X/month if I know that I can easily generate another $50K/year income stream.

I used 25% because that's what it takes to get the best rate. Your tax deduction is rather conservative. Assuming $600 in principal payment and $100 insurance (and skipping the MR deductible-or-not discussion) the deduction should be ~25-30%, i.e. ~$500-600/month.

Looking around, most 4S families are either families of retired/active military officers or immigrant engineers working at major SD companies. Usually with limited medical bills (decent insurance) and no student loans (foreign educated, government paid, etc).

I am not saying what you are getting in 4S Ranch is worth the money, just that fiscally-responsible single-income $125K/year family can rather comfortable afford $500K place.


Psychological is different for different people. Some might find it more comforting that both parents are working and it's easier to find a job when you were recently employed vs being out of the work force for so long.

Indeed. But between being single-income by choice and dual-income by necessity which one would you pick? And weren't you the one who brought up the 4% unemployment rate among people with 4-year college degree? So, is it hard or not to get a job if you are well educated?

AN wrote:
How many people actually put down 25%? I don't know the statistics, but I would assume it's not that many. Especially people in the $400-600k range. I compute my tax deduction based on (interest + tax - standard deduction) * 25% tax bracket. You forgot the standard deduction in your calculation.

I don't know how many put 25% down. JimTheRealtor publishes numbers like that for few costal areas. Back in June 13% of sales were with less than 20% down and 44% put 30% or more.
Standard deduction is nice. But the deductible state tax is comparable and you forgot about it.

AN wrote:

Even with decent insurance where you don't have to pay for any of the premium, you still have out of pocket stuff, dental stuff, vision stuff. They add a little or a lot, depend on how much you use/need.

Majority of 4S people appear to be in their 30's and 40's. A family of four... I don't know, should not be more than $1K/year.

AN wrote:

How many people don't have student loans? Why am I hearing all the talk about student loans being a huge problem, yet you don't think anyone in 4S have student loans?

I did not say anyone. Get-rich-quick people that got flushed probably did have those. Or maybe not since they likely were not college educated. Looking at my cul-de-sac, there are two retired military officers, two active duty military officers, 7-8 engineering immigrants mostly in mid-level managerial positions. That's what I see when I look around.

AN wrote:

I didn't even talk about saving for rainy day yet, just retirement. Again, lets assume you're right and those who live in 4S spend $0 on medical and student loan, how much does a family spend a month? You have $2200 to play with. How much would be a good rainy day saving? To me, comfortable would be saving $1k-2k/month for rainy day, on top of maxing out 401k and IRA. That would leave this theoretical family $200-1200 to spend on everything else.

Your numbers are off. My first-hand experience says that a family of four can carry $400K mortgage, put $20K in 401k+IRA, travel to Europe, make several ski trips to Big Bear, own two cars, have two kids enrolled in 7 year-round activities combined, dine out at least twice/month, see a dentist twice/year, pay an extra payment or two on the mortgage, and still easily save $1K/month on $125K/year.

AN wrote:

I don't consider that comfortable.

That's OK. Some people are fiscally conservative and some are even more fiscally conservative.

AN wrote:

All of this is talking about a $500k house too, how about a $600k house? If you recall, ocrenter was saying $400-600k and I said it should be more like $300-500k. Ideally, it would be $300-500k w/out HOA&MR.

The difference between $400K and $500K today is what, maybe $400/month after taxes? I know that is a lot of money for some people, but honestly, on $125K/year and the aforementioned second income stream sitting idle $400/month is nothing. Cable + phone bill or the difference between Acura and Honda.

Submitted by bearishgurl on November 30, 2011 - 11:08pm.

AN wrote:
How many people actually put down 25%? I don't know the statistics, but I would assume it's not that many. Especially people in the $400-600k range.

Of course, it's anecdotal, but I believe at least 40% of homebuyers put down at least 30%. We in lower-priced properties (this includes YOU, AN and ME) don't see this because we don't come into contact with it, like a RE professional would. In properties above $600K, I believe that the majority of current buyers put down 30% to 50%. Of course, this didn't happen during the "millenium boom." During that time, lenders routinely approved unqualified buyers to borrow far more $$ than they could ever pay back and also routinely made 100% LTV mortgages using 2nd TDs. This enabled purchasers who could qualify for a $150-$300K purchase on a bright sunny day (in a "normal" lending environment) to qualify for a $500-$850K purchase and drove up the prices of properties that should have been $200-$600K less under normal circumstances.

Submitted by an on December 1, 2011 - 12:22am.

captcha wrote:
Indeed. But between being single-income by choice and dual-income by necessity which one would you pick? And weren't you the one who brought up the 4% unemployment rate among people with 4-year college degree? So, is it hard or not to get a job if you are well educated?
Yes, but that 4% is for people who are currently employed. I read/hear a lot about people who have been out of work for >6 months have a much harder time finding a job.
captcha wrote:
I don't know how many put 25% down. JimTheRealtor publishes numbers like that for few costal areas. Back in June 13% of sales were with less than 20% down and 44% put 30% or more.

I did not say anyone. Get-rich-quick people that got flushed probably did have those. Or maybe not since they likely were not college educated. Looking at my cul-de-sac, there are two retired military officers, two active duty military officers, 7-8 engineering immigrants mostly in mid-level managerial positions. That's what I see when I look around.

True, but how much of those high down payment is in the $400k-600k range? How many retired people do you know retire in a $400k-600k house in 4S, vs 1st time home buyers? I would assume the $400k-600k range are the first time home buyers and the $600k+ is the retiree and middle management people. Is your cul-de-sac in the $400-600k range or the $600k+ range?
captcha wrote:
Your numbers are off. My first-hand experience says that a family of four can carry $400K mortgage, put $20K in 401k+IRA, travel to Europe, make several ski trips to Big Bear, own two cars, have two kids enrolled in 7 year-round activities combined, dine out at least twice/month, see a dentist twice/year, pay an extra payment or two on the mortgage, and still easily save $1K/month on $125K/year.
My numbers are not off, you're just putting in $23k/year less than my numbers, which is maxing out of 401k + IRA for both spouses ($16.5k each for 401k and $5k each for IRA). BTW, I didn't add in college fund either.
captcha wrote:
That's OK. Some people are fiscally conservative and some are even more fiscally conservative.
That's true, I just never consider myself to be in the "even more fiscally conservative" range. That label would be more fitting with my parents.

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