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85 Comments
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DWCAP
DWCAP
17 years ago

What I find intersting is
What I find intersting is that inventory is holding steady while sales have doubled. Sales at the beginning of the year were roughly 1500/month while inventory was about 18000. Now sales are 3000/month while inventory is about 16000.

Homes are coming onto the market extreamly fast, but are leaving just as fast as prices keep plumetting. This tells me that things will not turn around quickly, if only because the sales are already near the max seen in the past few years, when employment and buyer sedement was higher.

Add in the new, lower, conforming limit that will be in effect as of Decemeber (they have to close by the 31st ) and I cant see prices turning around any time soon.

What I wait for is an inflection point. Sales will slow as declines in prices stop (prices declines are what are driving sales). Hopefully ill still be in a place to buy then.

coxapple
coxapple
17 years ago
Reply to  DWCAP

‘What I find intersting is
‘What I find intersting is that inventory is holding steady while sales have doubled. Sales at the beginning of the year were roughly 1500/month while inventory was about 18000. Now sales are 3000/month while inventory is about 16000.’

Do these inventory number include properties foreclosed but not on the market yet? If not and bearing in mind the long lag between foreclosure and mortgagor owned property being put on the market, it would not be surprising if there is a disconnect between sales and inventory since most sales would be form the the hidden inventory which has along tail. Any comment on this suggestions?.

SD Realtor
SD Realtor
17 years ago

Well Rich the October numbers
Well Rich the October numbers from Innovest were pretty staggering. Still way to early to make the call though on my theory. I think in the end we will both be proven right to some extent. I view the current regulations to act as a 4 stage FIFO where each stage is a month. So… I want to see what things look like come January. If we see that the December numbers are comparable to September or October then we have a major problem.

One way or another it is VERY disconcerting to me.

peterb
peterb
17 years ago
Reply to  SD Realtor

Rich, thanks for the update.
Rich, thanks for the update. Sounds like something is churning out there. Do you know the actual median price paid per sq/ft of the condos? I’ve heard lately that prices around $200K are bringing people into the market. Sounds like the data may back this up.

HereWeGo
HereWeGo
17 years ago
Reply to  peterb

What didn’t fall in price in
What didn’t fall in price in October?

Arraya
Arraya
17 years ago
Reply to  Rich Toscano

Sub 1000 sq ft is definitely
Sub 1000 sq ft is definitely in striking distance for investment properties. Probably a lot of cash pounding that market and a lot of banks eager for cash.

peterb
peterb
17 years ago
Reply to  Arraya

Thanks. Looks like $200K to
Thanks. Looks like $200K to $300K is becoming or already is the sweet spot for the time being. Or until the next leg up in unemployment.

an
an
17 years ago
Reply to  Arraya

arraya wrote:Sub 1000 sq ft
[quote=arraya]Sub 1000 sq ft is definitely in striking distance for investment properties. Probably a lot of cash pounding that market and a lot of banks eager for cash.[/quote]
A few weeks ago, I would totally agree with you. However, I just had my eyes opened recently to other areas outside of San Diego. You can buy a 1500 sq-ft SFR in Fresno, CA for around $75-85k. Your PITI would be around $450-550/month with 30% down and you can rent those out for $1000-1100/month. If I’m looking for rental investment properties, nothing in SD sound as lucrative as areas like Fresno.

peterb
peterb
17 years ago
Reply to  an

Asianautica – is that price
Asianautica – is that price from a realtor handling REO’s. From the MLS?
I’ve seen some nice rental properties in Riverside going for $120K.

an
an
17 years ago
Reply to  peterb

I know someone who bought it
I know someone who bought it for that price and that’s the price they rent it out for.

Arraya
Arraya
17 years ago
Reply to  an

asianautica wrote:arraya
[quote=asianautica][quote=arraya]Sub 1000 sq ft is definitely in striking distance for investment properties. Probably a lot of cash pounding that market and a lot of banks eager for cash.[/quote]
A few weeks ago, I would totally agree with you. However, I just had my eyes opened recently to other areas outside of San Diego. You can buy a 1500 sq-ft SFR in Fresno, CA for around $75-85k. Your PITI would be around $450-550/month with 30% down and you can rent those out for $1000-1100/month. If I’m looking for rental investment properties, nothing in SD sound as lucrative as areas like Fresno.[/quote]

I don’t specifically agree with what I suggest could be causing the activity in the low end condo market, just possibly what the local sentiment is.

Personally I think the economic storm is a little to daunting to decrease liquidity yet.

I’m thinking rents will decrease as unemployment increases and deflation takes hold thus changing investment property numbers.

4plexowner
4plexowner
17 years ago
Reply to  Arraya

I agree with Arraya – rents
I agree with Arraya – rents will decrease – I’m holding out for GRM multipliers in the 8-10 range before I even consider jumping in to San Diego rental properties again – I think we will see 8-10 GRMs on prime bread-and-butter units in good parts of town (yes, the same units that were selling for 14-18 GRM at the peak) – buying real estate before 2010 is definitely knife-catching

peterb
peterb
17 years ago
Reply to  4plexowner

Me thinks there’s a little
Me thinks there’s a little easy money in flipping the low-end. At least for a little while. No way would I buy and hold anything in this market.

oxfordrick
oxfordrick
17 years ago

I know someone who is buying
I know someone who is buying whole buildings of condos in bulk to rent out as apartments – says he is paying 30-40% of peak prices,
maybe some of these sales have recorded as multiple individual sales and are reflected in the 14% fall in condo values.

patientrenter
patientrenter
17 years ago
Reply to  oxfordrick

oxfordrick wrote:I know
[quote=oxfordrick]I know someone who is buying whole buildings of condos in bulk to rent out as apartments – says he is paying 30-40% of peak prices,
maybe some of these sales have recorded as multiple individual sales and are reflected in the 14% fall in condo values.[/quote]

Have rents ever dropped by a large amount? If there really are a lot of investors buying condos for rent, and if employment continues to drop, we might see a very unusual drop in rents in the next 12 months.

DWCAP
DWCAP
17 years ago

No, nearly half of all
No, nearly half of all transactions today are related to foreclosure in the past 12 months. I am not positive, but I would guess that this means that most foreclosures are making it to market, but they are selling fast once priced correctly. The “foreclosure inventory” is made up of homes either:
A) not priced well, or
B) Waiting to be priced, or
c) A trash heap.

Sales will eventually slow as either one of two things happen,

1) we exaust the foreclosure inventory
2) we exaust the available buyer pool.

My money is on #1 above, because there is almost limitless demand at the right price. As I have said before I have no interest in living in Santee, but id buy a house there and make my own indoor bowling alley/guys club if it was cheap enough.
But please dont think that means prices will go right back up again either. There is no demand at higher prices, they have to fall now to drive sales. So prices will fall until a new equilibrum is met, and considering the supports of that equilibrum are falling (unemployment, stock market, new company formation, capital inflows, taxes (they reset in 2010)…) I believe that prices still have a ways to go down.
The number 2001 pricing gets thrown around alot here. I think it is very close. But except for the nicest areas (sdr land) or very special properties, I think itll be non-inflation adjusted. That is for SFR’s and we are not there yet. I think condo’s will hit 1999 prices. I already have seen a few 2001 condos in MM, I am sure those prices are elsewhere too.